Rev Spec in August Beta

[Fueki.4753]

I certainly hope it won't be a Greatsword.

 

Mid-ranged main hand axe or mid-ranged dual daggers would be nice.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, SidewayS.3789 said:

Well tbh after support Herald (but if you remember in the first weeks of HoT, Herald had the most ridiculous dps only on AA) and now Renegade a semi support as alacrity and a very good Condi spec, now we need a power spec nice and clean (much like DH was for guard). And if we will get off hand focus, i doubt we can even reach on power dps spectrum classes since sword has been nerfed for a few times, but maybe with dagger or dual daggers we can have a fully power spec, otherwise we will revenant to be played as an alacrity/condi spec even in EoD.

 

The two "support" specs that work better at dps support than healing support. Rework Herald into a dedicated heal support and I'll be happy, until then I will be hoping for a better support option for the class for competitive modes. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Za Shaloc.3908

[Justine.6351]

What if rev gets item spells like ashes? Maybe they with give us focus items then with urn skins?

[Noktiel.9075]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I certainly hope it won't be a Greatsword.

 

Mid-ranged main hand axe or mid-ranged dual daggers would be nice.

I certainly hope it won't be dual dagger and obviously a mh axe would be essentially useless. A mid range power gs would be be amazing though.

2 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

The two "support" specs that work better at dps support than healing support. Rework Herald into a dedicated heal support and I'll be happy, until then I will be hoping for a better support option for the class for competitive modes. 

DPS support is still support, alacrigade is essentially guaranteed a spot in every group. So asking for a 3rd support spec whilst we have a grand total of zero competitive power DPS specs just seems dense 

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Hard disagree with swords being good cleave aside from the auto attack getting a small bonus. 3 target cleave for full damage on melee weapon skills is pretty standard in this game so if a weapon set has to sacrifice its single target dps when cleaving that already makes it sub par in that regard. It isn't even just chilling isolation, sword 3 and 4 also lose single target dps in cleave situations  while sword 5 is straight single target so only the auto is doing full cleave damage and considering power rev is pretty much bottom tier single target dps it really can't just call mildly stronger autos plus weakened sword 2's good cleave.

2 isn't like the old 2 which did the same total damage no matter how many targets you hit, so you always wanted them focused on a single target to bring one down. It's more like an area skill that compensates you for lost damage. 3 has been more about the dodge and sticking to a target than DPS for a while. 4 does the same damage per target regardless of how many you hit, and the immobilise per target increases if you hit more targets. That just leaves 5, which is, yeah, single-target - but most melee weapons have a skill or two that don't contribute to cleaving.

 

You're also ignoring that revenant has a bunch of other sources of AoE damage from the legends which can be put down in cleave situations.

 

As for bottom tier single target DPS... against what? Training golem with all boons provided? Power herald is still one of the scarier things to be jumped by. There aren't as many of them as there used to be, but I think that's more because the meta has moved against them in other ways than because their damage output is THAT low.

 

Possibly more significantly... okay, YOU want melee cleave out of greatsword. But the OP seems to be pushing towards greatsword as a mid-range weapon as well. So you're not agreeing on what you want out of it. Both roles can be fulfilled by other weapons, with the main limitation being that a MH weapon would have to go with the existing OHs unless it also comes with an accompanying OH. 

 

The problem I see with demanding the weapon just for the sake of the weapon is you could potentially end up with something like dragonhunter longbow, which nowadays you almost never see because it's a ranged weapon on an elite specialisation that really wants to be in close. To be fair, it's getting a bit of a revival in sPvP, but that's largely out of a case of being least bad when it comes to ranged for guardian DPS builds in sPvP.

 

I'd really prefer that they came up with a solid theme and chose the weapon to suit the theme. If that happens to be greatsword... great! But I'd really rather not see them build up a theme around "people want greatsword, so we need a legend that uses greatsword" or, worse, shoehorn greatsword into an elite specialisation where it doesn't really fit. 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

4 does the same damage per target regardless of how many you hit. 

This is actually incorrect.  Shackling Wave splits its “additional 5 hits” across all targets hit. This means it loses damage across multiple targets. 
 

If you test it on a single golem, all 6 hits will go to that golem. If you test it against 3 golems, you’ll end up with 8 hits; 3 for the initial strike (1 per golem) and then an additional 5 split across the targets.  While it doesn’t say it on the tooltip, this is actually how it functions.

 

How Shackling Wave works is in keeping with Anet’s desire for the weapon though, since they’ve stated previously they want swords to be about “isolating a single target and then inflicting higher damage on that one target.”  This is why Sword 2 (even after rework) is higher damage against one foe and why sword 3/4 split the damage across multiple enemies.  Shiro’s Impossible Odds (the legend that is the inspiration for double swords on rev) follows this same format as well.  Additionally, note that before offhand Sword was reworked it also had the “isolate and assassinate one target” theme with a  #5 meant to drag an enemy away from the group. 
 

There’s nothing wrong with having a weapon set like this, unfortunately though this does mean that Rev has poor power cleave and also suffers more from having low damage in comparison to other classes as Arthur is saying (he’s also talking about PvE, not pvp/WvW, so that could be some of the disparity between both of your posts).  Regardless of whether or not we get GS as the next weapon, I suspect Anet will be giving us a high dps power class and weapon with decent cleave as it’s really the only major niche missing at the moment besides quickness generation 

Edited July 31, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[draxynnic.3719]

6 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

 Regardless of whether or not we get GS as the next weapon, I suspect Anet will be giving us a high dps power class and weapon with decent cleave as it’s really the only major niche missing at the moment besides quickness generation 

Which is largely the point I'm making - better to pick a theme and choose a weapon that goes with that theme.

 

So many of these discussions are essentially "I want greatsword because greatsword is awesome", and then trying to justify ways which greatsword can work. I'd really much rather the discussion be around playstyle, and whichever weapon fits with that playstyle is the weapon that comes with it. 

[Ald.9418]

I want it to be GS. It needs to be GS. I hope it's GS. It won't be GS.

[Rashagar.8349]

I've always been in the "I hope it's not GS" camp. But I'm sure whatever they do will be fine.

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, Rashagar.8349 said:

I've always been in the "I hope it's not GS" camp. But I'm sure whatever they do will be fine.

  Are we talking here about "breakstun in the heal" levels of fine? Remember that the PvP team said they have no voice in terms of changing the mechanics of the skills (only retouching the numbers) and related to PvP/WvW the amount of info provided by the showcase in the 27th was 0...

[Rashagar.8349]

?

That feels like a false comparison/complete non sequitur that I'm not really following. What has balance really got to do with it?

 

The only real difference mechanically speaking will be in number of new skills. 

My personal ideal would be for a new 1-handed weapon rather than another 2-handed weapon. 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 7/31/2021 at 3:16 AM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

The two "support" specs that work better at dps support than healing support. Rework Herald into a dedicated heal support and I'll be happy, until then I will be hoping for a better support option for the class for competitive modes. 

Missed this the first time around, but...

 

Heal Renegede is still listed on Snowcrows, it's just not as strong as it was and it doesn't really work for competitive modes. That said, ArenaNet has been showing a trend of whack-a-moleing whichever support build floats to the top in sPvP since the firebrand nerfs.

 

I don't think it's practical to really make herald heal-oriented, without compromising what it's currently used for. Maybe boosting the heal coefficients on the traits and on Facet of Nature: Centaur. Problem is, it's always going to be fairly passive, and it's hard to keep the tablet following a moving target.

[Zeph.5927]

Power dps Greatsword or riot. Seriously. It fits the profession and Revenant needs a good power dps build. It’s the one thing it’s really lacking. And I don’t want a power dps build for something like the Revenant focused around puny little daggers or a wand waving around (scepter).
 

They could even make the GS a ranged option if necessary (like Mesmer GS). In fact, I think I would want it ranged considering our only other viable ranged option is Shortbow and that’s locked behind an elite spec.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

On 7/31/2021 at 1:57 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Which is largely the point I'm making - better to pick a theme and choose a weapon that goes with that theme.

 

So many of these discussions are essentially "I want greatsword because greatsword is awesome", and then trying to justify ways which greatsword can work. I'd really much rather the discussion be around playstyle, and whichever weapon fits with that playstyle is the weapon that comes with it. 

Sorry this is late, but I do see your point and agree with it, but you also have to remember that the weapon is a large part of the visual feel of a character, like it’s an arm or leg even.  The weapon must also be appealing enough to want to use, which is why you see a lot of “I want” posts.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Lonewolf Kai.3682

[draxynnic.3719]

5 minutes ago, Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

Sorry this is late, but I do see your point and agree with it, but you also have to remember that the weapon is a large part of the visual feel of a character, like it’s an arm or leg even.  The weapon must also be appealing enough to want to use, which is why you see a lot of “I want” posts.

Particularly now that the question seems to have been answered? (Although we still need to see just what concept it's been tied to.)

 

I can see that, but there's also a degree to which I don't think there's any reason why one weapon type is necessarily going to be better-looking than others - it's a matter of the individual skins. Personally, I find a lot of greatsword skins to be pretty ugly... but there is enough variety that most people can find something.

 

I suspect that for people who are looking at it purely from an aesthetic perspective, it's largely a matter of the legendaries available. Greatsword is generally regarded as having among the best legendaries in both generations, so that's a draw compared to some others that are a bit more mediocre. For those who haven't got to legendaries yet, it also has a few popular non-legendaries.

 

I do get the impression that some people have the idea that greatsword can't help but be a good weapon mechanically, which... isn't necessarily the case. And, ultimately, even taking the aesthetic consideration in mind, I think it would still be better for it to come as part of a package where it works as part of that package, rather than ending up being a weapon that just doesn't see much use because it doesn't really fit the elite specialisation it comes with and thus other weapons will be chosen instead after the novelty factor wears off. Pushing it into an elite specialisation that it isn't suitable for just to appease people would, I think, just create more disappointment in the long run.

 

It does seem as if the question has been answered, though, so it's just a question of seeing what they do with it. Personally, I'm happy with a greatsword if only because it's hard to see greatsword being made into a ritualist wannabe elite specialisation.

[RabbitUp.8294]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Particularly now that the question seems to have been answered? (Although we still need to see just what concept it's been tied to.)

 

I can see that, but there's also a degree to which I don't think there's any reason why one weapon type is necessarily going to be better-looking than others - it's a matter of the individual skins. Personally, I find a lot of greatsword skins to be pretty ugly... but there is enough variety that most people can find something.

 

I suspect that for people who are looking at it purely from an aesthetic perspective, it's largely a matter of the legendaries available. Greatsword is generally regarded as having among the best legendaries in both generations, so that's a draw compared to some others that are a bit more mediocre. For those who haven't got to legendaries yet, it also has a few popular non-legendaries.

 

I do get the impression that some people have the idea that greatsword can't help but be a good weapon mechanically, which... isn't necessarily the case. And, ultimately, even taking the aesthetic consideration in mind, I think it would still be better for it to come as part of a package where it works as part of that package, rather than ending up being a weapon that just doesn't see much use because it doesn't really fit the elite specialisation it comes with and thus other weapons will be chosen instead after the novelty factor wears off. Pushing it into an elite specialisation that it isn't suitable for just to appease people would, I think, just create more disappointment in the long run.

 

It does seem as if the question has been answered, though, so it's just a question of seeing what they do with it. Personally, I'm happy with a greatsword if only because it's hard to see greatsword being made into a ritualist wannabe elite specialisation.

I think there are two main reason GS is such a popular weapon. One is the aestetics, the huge sword is a fantasy staple everywhere, from DnD to anime. The other is more specific to this game, but GS kits so far have felt more "complete" compared to other weapon sets. They have good mix of ST damage and cleave and good utility with a mix of mobility (except Reaper), cc and defense (block/evade/blind). It's a weapon you can camp without feeling like you are gimping yourself.

 

So, you take a weapon most people already want to play to fulfil a certain fantasy, and give it a good self-sustained kit, and you have yourself a fan favourite. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by RabbitUp.8294