Eviscerate is stupid.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Please explain this to me:

Eviscerate (in PvP with demolisher amulet) does :

1,075 dmg at level 1

1343 dmg at level 2

1613 dmg at level 3

 

Note that Eviscerate hits only one target and has a 3/4s cast time.  In it's defense, it is a leap with range 300 and grants 1 measly stack of might on hit.

 

Arcing Slice, in contrast, does:

1,170 dmg when target health >50%

1,699 dmg when target health <50%

 

Arcing slice can do this at level 1, can hit up to 5 targets, and has very fast cast time.

 

So why in the world does arcing slice do more dmg (at <50% health) than a level 3 eviscerate?  How does this make sense?  If I'm going to save 3 bars of adrenaline for something, it better be special.

 

I propose the following:

Eviscerate dmg should be increased to 1,300/1,700/2100 based on level of adrenaline.  This would make it more viable even at level 1 (very important in competitive content since you rarely get to save up to 3 full bars of adrenaline) but really reward landing a level 3 hit.

 

This would be a minor change that could make a big improvement to the classic GS/Axe+shield Core War and Spellbreaker variants.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

There's a lot to be done for warrior class. We have to wait for after expansion to see if anything gets done. After ten years of unnecessary nerfs and reworks, I doubt Anet will do anything good for the warrior. Let's just hope we get a kitten espec and utilities to go with it (It would suck if we got mantras or something).

Edited July 30, 2021 by Verdict is Vengence.6912
I like your proposed change though. Its reasonable

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Eviscerate is a perfect example of proper balance applied only to one class 😕

If they raised the damage on it, a T3 would instakill a thief and we can't have that now can we?

[Blocki.4931]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Eviscerate is a perfect example of proper balance applied only to one class 😕

If they raised the damage on it, a T3 would instakill a thief and we can't have that now can we?

I feel like the issue here is that Warrior, more than any other class, is more balanced around their damage numbers alone than utility. As such changing the numbers has a much bigger impact than for other classes.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Blocki.4931 said:

I feel like the issue here is that Warrior, more than any other class, is more balanced around their damage numbers alone than utility. As such changing the numbers has a much bigger impact than for other classes.

Warrior has always been a stat check. They live and die on the numbers.

[artharon.9276]

the warrior's kismet dilemma, increase numbers by tiny bit, lucky hits start nearly one shotting squishy classes and if they keep as it is, it does meh damage if you're lucky enough to land your bursts, either way it's s**t. The issue is the options that core warrior has imo and they will never return back to rework the core. Since early days people were suggesting nice stuff like having an offhand weapon burst and 2nd burst for the 2h weapons to negate their issues with landing their bursts. then they nerfed having a full adrenaline bar out of combat and lost banner bundles when they should have been improved them. so keep your expectations low to stay happy.

[Fueki.4753]

While it would be nice, I highly doubt such a buff will ever happen to Warrior.

 

Some time it the past it was decided that Warrior can't have nice things.

If we somehow get something nice by accident, it'll be nerfed.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[BlackTruth.6813]

21 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Eviscerate is a perfect example of proper balance applied only to one class 😕

If they raised the damage on it, a T3 would instakill a thief and we can't have that now can we?

 

This. Even in Pre-Hot 2015 if eviscerate didn't crit it was garbage, most top warriors either "feinted" with it or flat out just used Arcing Slice because arcing slice was better in every possible way (AoE and just flows better since it's GS). Even if it had 100% crit rate without investing into arms, it would still be balanced because it has an ACTUAL CASTING TIME compared to instant cast BS other classes have.

 

It's annoying trying to play core Warrior after the damage nerf because damage was all Core Warrior had, and now that it's nerfed it just doesn't feel rewarding to land Eviscerate, like you will maybe kill bad players with it who have ZERO reaction time but it's just so harsh nowadays playing a spec that isn't a spellbreaker (Which is theoretically the buffed warrior elite by damage nerfs).

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

29 minutes ago, BlackTruth.6813 said:

 

This. Even in Pre-Hot 2015 if eviscerate didn't crit it was garbage, most top warriors either "feinted" with it or flat out just used Arcing Slice because arcing slice was better in every possible way (AoE and just flows better since it's GS). Even if it had 100% crit rate without investing into arms, it would still be balanced because it has an ACTUAL CASTING TIME compared to instant cast BS other classes have.

 

It's annoying trying to play core Warrior after the damage nerf because damage was all Core Warrior had, and now that it's nerfed it just doesn't feel rewarding to land Eviscerate, like you will maybe kill bad players with it who have ZERO reaction time but it's just so harsh nowadays playing a spec that isn't a spellbreaker (Which is theoretically the buffed warrior elite by damage nerfs).

 

My response to that is max crit core Warr. This is the most fluid game play I got on Core rn. 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAElflJwoYisEGKOWL2LPA-zFsY1ZE-w

 

Replace Signet of Fury with might for less off cooldown ferocity Signet stacks, but for a small sustain boost on top of raw passive power and another 10 unblockables attacks. 

 

This my anti-aegis, anti-warrior build. Signet of Fury makes a T3 skull crack easier to land and gives room for axe 5. I try to burn enemy CD on stunbreak b4 that tho and tiered arcing slice still useful. I find this superior cleave and less clunkiness to landing eviscerate. 

 

Lesse Signet of Might proc can also heal. I go for strength sigil on GS, battle sigil and generally might generation stuff to abuse MMR. 

 

 

[BlackTruth.6813]

5 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

My response to that is max crit core Warr. This is the most fluid game play I got on Core rn. 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAElflJwoYisEGKOWL2LPA-zFsY1ZE-w

 

Replace Signet of Fury with might for less off cooldown ferocity Signet stacks, but for a small sustain boost on top of raw passive power and another 10 unblockables attacks. 

 

This my anti-aegis, anti-warrior build. Signet of Fury makes a T3 skull crack easier to land and gives room for axe 5. I try to burn enemy CD on stunbreak b4 that tho and tiered arcing slice still useful. I find this superior cleave and less clunkiness to landing eviscerate. 

 

Lesse Signet of Might proc can also heal. I go for strength sigil on GS, battle sigil and generally might generation stuff to abuse MMR. 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, Core Warrior before the damage nerf actually had a good unblockable spec in sPvP. I actually substituted STR for ARMS because I was sick and tired of block spams + evades. You lose reckless dodge for an unblockable whirling axe, I even kept defense tree too and it still did decent damage. Just having the 100% rate on eviscerate felt good tbh, but that 100% rate should have been baseline, Core arms warrior required you to sacrifice a reasonable amount of stuff already.

 

You could probably still run it today, but people like me who liked the more damage meta isn't going to enjoy it as much.

 

Those were fun times.

Edited July 31, 2021 by BlackTruth.6813

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 hour ago, BlackTruth.6813 said:

 

Oh yeah, Core Warrior before the damage nerf actually had a good unblockable spec in sPvP. I actually substituted STR for ARMS because I was sick and tired of block spams + evades. You lose reckless dodge for an unblockable whirling axe, I even kept defense tree too and it still did decent damage. Just having the 100% rate on eviscerate felt good tbh, but that 100% rate should have been baseline, Core arms warrior required you to sacrifice a reasonable amount of stuff already.

 

You could probably still run it today, but people like me who liked the more damage meta isn't going to enjoy it as much.

 

Those were fun times.

Crazy that they nerfed unblockable to a set number of hits instead of a time period where your hits were unblockable. I never knew why they did that. It affected my sniper warrior quite a bit.

[TugboatSteve.3607]

At least Eviscerate is better than the clownish mace and sword burst abilities, which are bordering on unusable.

 

As ridiculous as it is, this is the biggest reason I play Berserker in arena. It makes all three burst abilities useful in their own way.

[sneakytails.5629]

If they wont do a damage increase then they could at least speed up the cast time to 1/2 a second and remove the aftercast.

[Zekent.3652]

On 8/2/2021 at 2:34 PM, sneakytails.5629 said:

If they wont do a damage increase then they could at least speed up the cast time to 1/2 a second and remove the aftercast.

This to be honest, most of warrior's weapons skills still on 2012 meta

[Myror.7521]

The best thing I find out yesterday. CmC said he used to like the WvW tactics core warrior Version? Imagine ..... in WvW eviscerate deal more damage than arcing slice. It seems to be a bug but actually i enjoy it cause this is how it should be since eviscerate is a Single targed burst and arcing slice a aoe one.

 

(On my build I pretty check it out ...... eviscerate was dealing around 2.100 damage and arcing slice was around 1.900 while in pvp it is like eviscerate dealing 1.900 damage and arcing slice is around 2.100 (it Was in wvw On marauder stats and in pvp On zerker))

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

It's ridiculous that cyclone axe does more dmg than level 1 eviscerate.

 

I've been playing a lot more GS axe shield core war lately, and I feel the damage is decent, but man does eviscerate underperform. I honestly think that if eviscerate were buffed as suggested in the OP the classic GS axe/shield combo could be pretty solid.

The higher damage output would be more than balanced out by how hard it is to land eviscerate against a competent foe (extremely telegraphed).

 

Would be a good candidate for @Lan Deathrider.5910's change request series, imo. Small change, big difference. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

It's ridiculous that cyclone axe does more dmg than level 1 eviscerate.

 

I've been playing a lot more GS axe shield core war lately, and I feel the damage is decent, but man does eviscerate underperform. I honestly think that if eviscerate were buffed as suggested in the OP the classic GS axe/shield combo could be pretty solid.

The higher damage output would be more than balanced out by how hard it is to land eviscerate against a competent foe (extremely telegraphed).

 

Would be a good candidate for @Lan Deathrider.5910's change request series, imo. Small change, big difference. 

Noted, though I'm focusing an things not directly related to the damage number seen on the screen before that. A T3 Eviscerate will still hit a thief for most of their health even in it's current state on a Sentinel build, so any boost it gets would likely instadown a thief or ele that gets hit by it. Not sure if Cal wants that in the game again yet.

[Shroud.2307]

This skill is awful and literally one of the reasons I decided I was done with this class and deleted it.
Don't get me wrong, Warrior is still great in the hands of a skilled player, but it definitely needs some love.

I never understood why this skill got nerfed so hard though, it just doesn't make sense how unrewarding it is no matter how you look at it. I'm a sucker for big numbers and almost always play builds that are full glass with max damage potential. Last I played Warrior ~5 months ago this skill was hitting like, 5k tops. Most times between 3 and 4k.

IMO, if ANet doesn't want to increase the damage they should at least give it a unique effect. Like, this skill ignores armor and goes straight to your health. Maybe it doesn't deal a heap of damage, but it means it'll do the same damage no matter the defenses of your opponent. At least that way it has value as being a reliable damage dealer when against something heavy on defenses.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Noted, though I'm focusing an things not directly related to the damage number seen on the screen before that. A T3 Eviscerate will still hit a thief for most of their health even in it's current state on a Sentinel build, so any boost it gets would likely instadown a thief or ele that gets hit by it. Not sure if Cal wants that in the game again yet.

Maybe it's different in WvW? In PvP that's definitely not the case. Arcing slice (if target<50%) hits harder than T3 eviscerate. I routinely get arcing slices that land for 7-9k, but eviscerate rarely cracks 6k (usually 2-4k).  I'm not sure why this is; according to the wiki, Arcing slice has the same base dmg and lower coefficient than T3 eviscerate. But I can tell you for a fact that arcing slice almost always hits significantly harder. All want is for eviscerate to be doing consistently as much or more damage than arcing slice. That's only fair since eviscerate only his one target.

 

One thing they could try: increase the coefficient on eviscerate to 2.0 at all levels. Currently it is 1.33 at T1, 1.66 at T2, and 2.0 at T3.  Changing it to 2.0 would give you more rewards at lower levels without increasing the max damage of the skill. (The base damage also increases from level to level, so this wouldn't make all levels equivalent to T3).

 

Also, if there ever was a class that needed to live in fear of being insta-downed, it is thief. I have absolutely zero sympathy.

Edited September 4, 2021 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Maybe it's different in WvW? In PvP that's definitely not the case. Arcing slice (if target<50%) hits harder than T3 eviscerate. I routinely get arcing slices that land for 7-9k, but eviscerate rarely cracks 6k (usually 2-4k).  I'm not sure why this is; according to the wiki, Arcing slice has the same base dmg and lower coefficient than T3 eviscerate. But I can tell you for a fact that arcing slice almost always hits significantly harder. All want is for eviscerate to be doing consistently as much or more damage than arcing slice. That's only fair since eviscerate only his one target.

Well, WvW has higher damage output. That said when they rolled out the Feb2020 patch they explicitly used the T3 Eviscerate on a berserker ammy as their reference point, but then they forget so many other high damage skills. A T3 Eviscerate should do more than Arcing Slice (<50%) seeing as it is a single target attack.

5 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

One thing they could try: increase the coefficient on eviscerate to 2.0 at all levels. Currently it is 1.33 at T1, 1.66 at T2, and 2.0 at T3.  Changing it to 2.0 would give you more rewards at lower levels without increasing the max damage of the skill. (The base damage also increases from level to level, so this wouldn't make all levels equivalent to T3).

 

Also, if there ever was a class that needed to live in fear of being insta-downed, it is thief. I have absolutely zero sympathy.

I have no sympathy either. The coefficients should be 1.5/2.0/2.5 fwiw.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

2 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

IMO, if ANet doesn't want to increase the damage they should at least give it a unique effect

That's the thing about the nerfs on Warrior. There isn't ever something to replace what was taken away or something to make it worth the change. No buffs, boons or utility. There is just less than what was there previously. It's like a hole dug up but never filled. We point the hole out but Anet insists that hole is how it should be.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Thieves are sneaky. They will call out for how they have been nerfed _alongside_ warriors if they are asked, but eviscerated had kills hot potential they would qq and if they were now asked for lower blind output, they would say that it kills their viability... 

 

Death's retreat vs brutal shot.... Xdddd

[Gorilla.4120]

@Verdict is Vengence.6912

Also, they never do things in moderation. If something is over performing, instead of tweaking and fixing the problem, they nerf it out of existence and make the skill/trait completely useless. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

17 minutes ago, Mighty Cole.7849 said:

@Verdict is Vengence.6912

Also, they never do things in moderation. If something is over performing, instead of tweaking and fixing the problem, they nerf it out of existence and make the skill/trait completely useless. 

Unless it is Necro or Guard. In which case they give it a few wrist slaps and let it continue to dominate the meta. 

[Vancho.8750]

On 9/4/2021 at 10:37 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Unless it is Necro or Guard. In which case they give it a few wrist slaps and let it continue to dominate the meta. 

Actually necro has been nerfed in most patches, the mechanics of necro are just good for pvp, for example you can throw random skills and weapons and still be effective just with shroud and they are balanced to perform since you always have them. I remember the meme where necro will get several nerfs and then they will buff axe by 5% and people joked that in 10 patches it might be good, but we can't deny that someone at anet is playing scourge, while you can see that 60% of reaper traits are useless and you just go for the cookie cutter onslaught everywhere, which is way better than the berserker situation.

For guardian, someone there made their traitlines really work together in synergy and it didn't have that many passive proc defensives so it skipped on the 300 cd thing. The only out of meta build for guard for pvp is FB by intent cause the tomes got nerfed since they are mechanically strong, which is also lame because they didn't bother to fix it. 
Both seem OP since they just have working traitlines and skills so they get allot of build variations, while the rest of the professions can barely pull one working build.