Why is this even possible?

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

1. It is possible to stunbreak mid fall animation when getting knocked off the mount. If you are ready to instantly stunbreak and defend yourself, getting forcefully dismounted is not an inevitable death sentence.

 

You are the first person who answered this question in here.  Thanks!  I got the answer from someone in game earlier as well.  I agree the best options are either dismount before your mount dies, or be prepared to stun break and evade.

 

However, I don't think it's healthy to be able to instagib average spec'd and geared people off their mounts.  As some already said, that's the sort of thing Anet was trying to get away from since the February 2020 patch.  In that spirit, I think there should be invuln frames during the dismount animation, and then the CC can kick in once the player is on the ground.  I think it's more intuitive for people to understand that that's when you're in control of your character again and should do something, as opposed to when your character is ragdolling in the air during the dismount animation.  If the attacker wants a fight, then let there be a fight.  Not global someone mostly because they don't realize how forced dismount behaves.  Just my opinion.

 

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

2. Macros don't alter the way skills work or how fast they can be used. Every combo that can be done with macros can be done just as well without.

 

If there was no advantage to macros, people wouldn't use them.  Macros make it easy to string a combination of multiple inputs together with only a single user input.  That's inherently faster than anyone can manually perform multiple inputs, which will have inevitable delays between them compared with setting up a macro.

 

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

3. Removing information (combat log, hp bar, ...) isn't very helpful if the intent of a video/image is to gain answers about what/how exactly something is happening/possible. "Feels like" and "seems like" is the best you'll get ...

 

8 hours ago, Celsith.2753 said:

It's hard to comment on a specific event that happens to a player when you hide your hp and don't show your build or stats.  For all we know your toon was a level 15 in green gear.

 

The clip is cropped to leave out the UI elements, which weren't particularly relevant.  I'm not so hardcore that I leave the combat log up, so that's not even available.  The only other thing would be the skillbar, which wouldn't be all that useful considering there was no actual "fight" in this clip.  People have already asked about my HP and I answered them.  I guess I need to put it in the OP at this point because people don't read my replies.

 

Here it is again: I was on my thief with around 18K+ HP including buffs, wearing medium ascended armor with mostly Marauder's stats.  Sorry if not being full glass in green gear goes against a preferred narrative.  In other words, there was nothing remarkable about my character that would justify what happened.

[Gorem.8104]

Ah, I love players that think they should be glass cannon in wvw, they die so fast just like the OP. 

 

Zerker is a TERRIBLE build to use in wvw, yet people do it anyway and I love killing them and beating them 100% of the time in 1v1 scenarios. 

 

If you want to be bursted, that's on you! 

 

But seriously, if the Ranger is also playing glass cannon, then ONE reflect and instead of you dieing, they would have instantly. 

[Gorem.8104]

16 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

  

 

huh...then is it some soulbeast trait that causes the unblockable? I'm like nearly 100% sure that all soulbeasts builds have this capacity to bypass blocks...i just don't remember which thing causes that unblockable. 

 

Edit: okay I see, it was Unstoppable Union which is what i was thinking of : 

 

 

July 16, 2019

This trait no longer grants an unblockable boon. Instead, it removes movement-impairing conditions in addition to its previous effect of stunbreaking when activating beastmode.

 

But ya i suppose the only way now these rangers can do unblockables is with That Signet of the Hunt. Is that a popular choice or no?

The problem with the signet is its use is extremely limited. Its passive is 100% doing nothing for you, and its active has too long a cd and doesn't last long enough. And against bad players like the OP, doesn't do anything and is a 100% wasted slot. Imagine taking that over Dolyak stance. 

 

The thing is, with rangers, if you avoid the initial burst, Everything they have is on cd and unless they try and GS you, they have no damage for awhile afterwards. A dodge roll timed well, means you win. And signet, does not help with dodge rolls. Against good players, it also doesn't work. 

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

11 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Ah, I love players that think they should be glass cannon in wvw, they die so fast just like the OP. 

 

Zerker is a TERRIBLE build to use in wvw, yet people do it anyway and I love killing them and beating them 100% of the time in 1v1 scenarios. 

 

If you want to be bursted, that's on you! 

 

But seriously, if the Ranger is also playing glass cannon, then ONE reflect and instead of you dieing, they would have instantly. 

 

Ah, I love players that cba to read anything written in the discussion and instead make incorrect assumptions.

 

1. Not a glass cannon.

 

2. When was there an opportunity to reflect?

 

Quote

against bad players like the OP

 

Yes, I'm bad because I didn't know I can be blown up while in the forced dismount animation.  My fault for not knowing this is a thing until I actually experienced it for the first time.

 

Unless people take a passive life-saver trait like Stoneform, I'm pretty sure this can happen to almost anyone.

 

As for skill, I guess it's "skill" to camp a Keep and run inside as soon as you're about to die.  Rinse, repeat.

 

Please stop pretending nothing like this has ever happened to you.  If you say otherwise, you're lying. 😃

[RisenHowl.2419]

There's about 2s of time between when you get dismounted and when the game applies your armor's stats, so rangers just need to hit guard/thief/ele for 11k in that window to down them regardless of their build

 

It's been a bug since the mounts were introduced

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

12 minutes ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

There's about 2s of time between when you get dismounted and when the game applies your armor's stats, so rangers just need to hit guard/thief/ele for 11k in that window to down them regardless of their build

 

It's been a bug since the mounts were introduced

 

Thank you!  I remember reading about this somewhere in the forum a while ago.  Maybe it was one of your posts.

 

If this is accurate, it would explain a lot of the "this just doesn't feel right" about this situation.

[Dawdler.8521]

8 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

2. Macros don't alter the way skills work or how fast they can be used. Every combo that can be done with macros can be done just as well without. While the use of macros can't be ruled out, i don't see a reason to assume, macros had any relevance in this case.

I'm also not aware of skill altering cheats.

And I can also play Für Elise on a piano flawlessly if I look up and hit one note every day but its faster to hit play on a recording made by a pro - and for some reason it'll probably sound better.

[anduriell.6280]

17 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

^This sounds horrible and somewhat abusive.  More reason to manually dismount when the Warclaw is about to die.

You have many options as other has pointed out. 

Quote

Yes, a bit glassy, but not full glass.  As I responded to others in here, I have 18K+ HP with buffs.  Mostly Marauder's stats.  Medium ascended armor.  Definitely not a 1-shot build myself.

We can not know that because you cropped the skills bar and the HP, you realize that. What about you share the full video. 

 

Quote

Pure glass, I believe.  Zero mobility?  Welll, they used GS Swoop and Smoke Assault port pretty effectively.  If I'm not mistaken, that's effectively 1,000 + 750 units of solid mobility.  (Swoop isn't in the clip, but they kept using it to run into their Keep earlier.)

But then if the ranger switches to GS lose all the range and need to reach you into melee.  And for 10 seconds it can not go back to pewpew. That's core game mechanics. 

 

Quote

If you watch the opening of the clip closely (or read my replies to others) both Warclaw evades were used before the RF burst.  First I dodged Lance, then I tried to dodge Battle Maul.  Of course I normally try to dodge the RF.  And I'm not running a one-shot build, as I mentioned above.

Well again, it would be easier if you included all the information in the  video  instead intentionally cropping that information out. If you are looking for help you should know better than to provide a cropped video with limited information. And the combat log always help.

 

Quote

I generally don't have too much trouble with most Soulbeasts.  Very good Soulbeasts and Immob Druids are a different matter.  I just didn't know what a death sentence the scenario in the clip is.  Going forward, I know to manually dismount if my Warclaw is about to die and I'm in enemy range.

Immob druids are a meme and pretty bad in most situations. I don't understand what is the fixation in NA about that build. In EU nobody uses it. 

That ranger was also a good one you said so yourself when you came back and could not pin that ranger down. Yes the build is a degeneracy, souldbeast should have been built differently so it would not depend into 2 skills and apply a better balanced burst damage but well Anet has stated that is intentional. Gunflame berserker does the same amount of damage but in literally one shot and unblockable. And then with GS have a superior mobility. So literally the same build as the pewpew which makes you think it is clearly a game design. 

 

Quote

I tried to do a "INB4: L2P" in the second post by acknowledging what I learned and plan to do going forward, but I guess it just gets overlooked. 😕

Well in your main OP you did not ask "How can avoid/survive this" but "How is it possible a ranger has defeated me". 

So you got the usuals jumping in with more ranger hate because they don't like pewpew. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by anduriell.6280
some formatting

[Teratus.2859]

6 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@Teratus.2859 yeah, and equally of no use against most other stuff. nice deal. rangers surely are very solid once they can hide behind a zerg or blob of classes that do the main work.

The more you invest in it the more vulnerable you'll be once pushed into a melee duel.
It's a good trade off imo, can be useful for small group play as the ranger can add a lot of ranged pressure.

But LB Ranger shines mostly though is AoE damage.
But this is situational, highly skill dependant and not so useful in the PvP side of the game admittedly.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

4 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

We can not know that because you cropped the skills bar and the HP, you realize that. What about you share the full video. 

 

Well again, it would be easier if you included all the information in the  video  instead intentionally cropping that information out. If you are looking for help you should know better than to provide a cropped video with limited information. And the combat log always help.

 

I'll copy what I said to UmbraNoctis some posts up:

 

The clip is cropped to leave out the UI elements, which weren't particularly relevant.  I'm not so hardcore that I leave the combat log up, so that's not even available.  The only other thing would be the skillbar, which wouldn't be all that useful considering there was no actual "fight" in this clip.  People have already asked about my HP and I answered them.  I guess I need to put it in the OP at this point because people don't read my replies.

 

The only info I think might be relevant, which I gladly provided to anyone who asked, is what my HP, stats, and armor were.  I also included that I was on a pretty vanilla meta build.  Nothing remarkable about my character such as being full glass or running a janky build that would explain being vaporized that fast.

 

EDIT: That said, I have nothing to hide.  If you think seeing the skill bar, which is basically the Warclaw skill bar and health pool and then a fleeting view of my character's skill bar with skills disabled by the CC, and the total HP not even visible because the numbers flash so fast as it's zeroed out, I can make a new version.  I really don't see how it would help though.

 

4 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

But then if the ranger switches to GS lose all the range and need to reach you into melee.  And for 10 seconds it can not go back to pewpew. That's core game mechanics. 

 

Right, but I was just pointing out the solid mobility in the build because you said there was "ZERO mobility."  And presumably if the ranger switches to GS for Swoop, their LB rotation is already on c/d and they either want to close a gap or create one.

 

4 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Well in your main OP you did not ask "How can avoid/survive this" but "How is it possible a ranger has defeated me". 

So you got the usuals jumping in with more ranger hate because they don't like pewpew.

 

Where did I ask, "How is it possible a ranger has defeated me?"  I said throughout this discussion that I'm not complaining about rangers or the memebeast.  I just think the way forced dismount works is kind of punishing and counterintuitive.  I can tell you what was going through my mind when I saw the dismount is, "Ok, as soon as I hit the ground, I'm breaking stun and evading/moving.  WTH?!  I'm already dead."

Edited August 3, 2021 by Twilight Tempest.7584
formatting, marked addition

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 hours ago, RisenHowl.2419 said:

There's about 2s of time between when you get dismounted and when the game applies your armor's stats, so rangers just need to hit guard/thief/ele for 11k in that window to down them regardless of their build

 

It's been a bug since the mounts were introduced

I was trying to find this on the mount wiki page to post here. I thought that was the case. This is part of why Rangers pew pew people so hard upon dismount.

 

Not sure if putting invuln frames on there would be a solution though. Fixing the bug at least would be good.

[anduriell.6280]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Not sure if putting invuln frames on there would be a solution though. Fixing the bug at least would be good.

But then it defeats the idea behind the knockdown. 

 

It should get the stats properly applied, but in the meanwhile i find the punishment fit for the situation. It is not like you can't see it coming anyway. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, anduriell.6280 said:

But then it defeats the idea behind the knockdown. 

 

It should get the stats properly applied, but in the meanwhile i find the punishment fit for the situation. It is not like you can't see it coming anyway. 

I think you misread my post.

[anduriell.6280]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think you misread my post.

ah yeah you are right, we are saying the same. 

[Hadi.6025]

All they need to do to resolve this ridiculous issue thats been going on since POF Released, is nerf rangers RANGE back from 1500 to 1200, leave it on a trait instead of default (meaning they'd have to go under a glassier traitline to have that damage) , and make One Wolf pack not hit 2-5k damage every 3/4 of a second. That lazy patch that they did last year just show's they didnt even look at all the skills and just thought nerfing all power damage was the right way to go. Mean while some skills being over looked like Grenade Barrage hitting 10k damage instantly. They said they did all the nerfs to reduce 1 shot builds but people still make their way around it. Ultimately its not the players fault, its the lazy developers because they allow it and allow it to go on for years. 

[anduriell.6280]

18 minutes ago, Hadi.6025 said:

All they need to do to resolve this ridiculous issue thats been going on since POF Released, is nerf rangers RANGE back from 1500 to 1200, leave it on a trait instead of default (meaning they'd have to go under a glassier traitline to have that damage) , and make One Wolf pack not hit 2-5k damage every 3/4 of a second. That lazy patch that they did last year just show's they didnt even look at all the skills and just thought nerfing all power damage was the right way to go. Mean while some skills being over looked like Grenade Barrage hitting 10k damage instantly. They said they did all the nerfs to reduce 1 shot builds but people still make their way around it. Ultimately its not the players fault, its the lazy developers because they allow it and allow it to go on for years. 

aaannd the ranger hate comments with no sensical suggestions came back.  

 

Anet has specified there is place for one shot builds in the game  so my advice would be to stop hating and learn to deal with it. 

[Hadi.6025]

1 minute ago, anduriell.6280 said:

aaannd the ranger hate comments with no sensical suggestions came back.  

 

Anet has specified there is place for one shot builds in the game  so my advice would be to stop hating and learn to deal with it. 

k

[Aeolus.3615]

6 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

aaannd the ranger hate comments with no sensical suggestions came back.  

 

Anet has specified there is place for one shot builds in the game  so my advice would be to stop hating and learn to deal with it. 

 

Altough they need to have their own  skillfloor and risk vs reward.

Norn toon soulbeast can kill a minstrell FB in 2-3 hits (its melee so onlu tome of courage will save it lol since it comes out unblokcable and with quickness very hard to avoid it) or even a tanky necro, its strong very strong but yeah it has drawbacks...

Edited August 3, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[displayname.8315]

Didn't know the mount death punishment puts you at base class stats that explains a lot.  Other than that with a good all around build not too hard to push the pew-pew people.

 

@Hadi.6025  Love the Youtube vids your commentary is hilarious.  Your new world rapid fire review wasn't very glowing on the state of open world PvP.  Hope they have a good team keeping up on it, kinda meh so far.

[Hadi.6025]

3 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

Didn't know the mount death punishment puts you at base class stats that explains a lot.  Other than that with a good all around build not too hard to push the pew-pew people.

 

@Hadi.6025  Love the Youtube vids your commentary is hilarious.  Your new world rapid fire review wasn't very glowing on the state of open world PvP.  Hope they have a good team keeping up on it, kinda meh so far.

 

Yea New World is trash lol, but it looks nice. I'll still play it though just to have something to do until EoD release. 

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

 We've all been saying how unfair Ranger is right now for a long time.   Do this.....go back 18 months and count the exact number of nerfs Rangers have received in WvW and then compare that to the number of thief or mesmer nerfs for the past 18 months.

 The difference is staggering.....Now I know the exact answer to my request but I think it's long overdue someone else looks at this.

 What was done to wvw is disgusting. We're all made to suffer because of the class biases that have no business being in a game of GW2's caliber.

  LoL The easymode burst...the  range advantage....the comical spammability with regards to skill strings.   Comically unfair.

   We need people to post more examples of this kind of exploitation.

[Zyreva.1078]

14 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

ranger and thief (but especially theif) deal a billion less dmg in spvp and thieves are far less bulky there also. (rangers' self sustain is just some other absurd point of that class, far too forgiving for its mobility)

Equal skill coefficients and equal dmg modifiers from traits for both classes in both game modes. Anything that enables higher dmg in WvW (gear, buffs) is aviable to all classes. Also every class has lower sustain in sPvP. Facts.

 

14 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

 

u sound just like another person not understand the meta at all, no offense. okay, u want pirateship, but in the end pirateship metas are just some random grindfest. completely chaotic, you could as well just let 180 NPCs with a random number generated build and skill usage bomb each other.... surely fun. or so.

I didn't say anything about meta or what kind of balance i want. You were the one who brought up sPvP balance and i just wanted to remind you, that there is more to it than (assumed, but non existent) dmg nerfs to ranger and thief. Stuff that you might not like. So be careful what you are asking for, because it seems like you are the one not understanding, what you are talking about.

 

It is also pretty amusing to observe, how your opinion regarding ranger (and thief) constantly changes between "absolute trash" and "ridiculous op". Sometimes in the very same post 😉

 

10 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And I can also play Für Elise on a piano flawlessly if I look up and hit one note every day but its faster to hit play on a recording made by a pro - and for some reason it'll probably sound better.

Very appropriate comparison. Not.

[bigo.9037]

I’ve played this build for over a year now. There are no macros being used, Soulbeast doesn’t have enough buttons to press to need macros. It’s very simple really. You buff up with owp, sicem, then hit lb#4 for fury, quickness with celerity sigil, then hit rapidfire and just before your cast is over you hit smokeassault to get instant hits on to your target so there’s no gap between the hits. The teleport is instant and has no cast time, and if you lose target it also ends instantly. You can also swap weapons to end the smoke assault animation early if needed. Keep in mind there are delayed hits from owp .25s apart triggered by both rapidfire and smokeassault. 
 

as for how to deal with these attacks, be alert and aware of surroundings. You should not be out of position to get hit by tower ranger pleb like this guy in the first place, but if you must, be prepared to hit dismount and block, evade or invuln. Alternatively you can just steal on the ranger as a thief, his burst will be interrupted very easily.  I’ve made many comebacks as a full glass Soulbeast from other soulbeasts attacking me first, it is possible with thief also.

 

TLDR; Better awareness, and be quick to dismount and use active defenses. 
 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, bigo.9037 said:

You buff up with owp, sicem, then hit lb#4 for fury, quickness with celerity sigil, then hit rapidfire and just before your cast is over you hit smokeassault to get instant hits on to your target so there’s no gap between the hits. 

 

Why would you not assign that to a macro again?

 

Also, from my roaming experience, power soulbeast is one of the only ways to deal with trailblazer minonmancer scourges and gets absolutely hardcountered by a good spellbreaker due to the blocks and boon rip.  

 

This 'one shot' stuff is just meme though and I rarely ever see it myself; probably because as we all learned in the topic dismounting before it is over or stunbreaking out right after will end their burst potential and they'll go back in their structure of choice.  

[Zyreva.1078]

11 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Why would you not assign that to a macro again?

 

Inflexibility.