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Why is this even possible?


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23 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Imagine complaining about underwater balance while playing the by far most op underwater class. But as ranger i'll gladly trade 1,5k range for perma evade, superior mobility and still tons of dmg. Deal?

  You need to explain how thief is "by far the most op underwater class".

  Seriously qualify that statement. I assure you virtually all underwater builds and weapon sets are virtually identical EXCEPT ranger is allowed 1500 range compared to everyone elses 1200 range.

 Go to the wiki....Look up Harpoon Gun....Compare Ranger Harpoon gun skills/damage to every other classes harpoon gun skills and then go and look at the range of EVERY other classes skills....with the identical weapon.

 You wanna trade stuff?

 Give me access to any stability at all and a 600 range knockback with a 12 second recharge.

You either have no clue what youre talking about or you play ranger.

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You are way too much focused on max range. It is irrelevant most of the time. Especially vs thief, who can close the gap in the blink of an eye anyway. And no, classes and skills are not the same across the board and they are not supposed to be the same. Not that underwater combat matters, it is imbalanced anyway and nobody cares.

 

Also don't use harpoon gun on thief underwater. Spear is all you need.

 

If you want to have everything ranger has - just play the class. Maybe then you'll realize you won't only gain stuff, you also have to give up some things. And that range isn't the be all and end all of what makes a strong weapon/class.

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1 hour ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

lol Uh huh...You didnt answer a single question I asked

 EXPLAIN TO ME WHY WATER COMBAT SKILLS ARE VIRTUALLY THE SAME ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EVERY CLASS.....but ranger is allowed 300 extra range compared to every other class bar none. This is deliberate.

You can deny it all you want. It's stupid obvious to all of us what has been happening in wvw for the past 18+ months

Oh for cripes sake. You're not asking questions any more than questions I could ask you about the kitten thief. You're ranting about the range of the skills. We get it. And I literally told you, I dont disagree. The range is there whether you like it or not. I just dont see it as a huge problem because that type of build to cash in on longbow range is often the +1 squishy type that is easily overwhelmed. I usually have more difficult fights against far tankier melee sustain rangers. 

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6 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

  As a thief for 8 years...

 

1 hour ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

 You wanna trade stuff?

 Give me access to any stability at all /.../

You either have no clue what youre talking about or you play ranger.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Plasma

 

This is like in threads past when Thieves claim to do less damage (likely because they don't understand attack speeds or are blinded by classes' overall relation to zerk stats). Or when they claim to not have blocks or invuls even though they have them both directly (bandit, storm) and indirectly (blinds etc.), they just rarely learn/use them because they do not have to and almost every build is port, port signet and a third utility since stealth and positioning is both power- and condi defense on Thief. Complaining about LB2 Rangers is extra ironic when both smoke screen and sniper cover is relatively common and there are more tools in the box to adapt with while not having to give up more than other classes.

 

Ed. Just to underline it again since I speak out against the Thief both now and then. I don't hate the class. I play it myself. I am a broad multiclasser (that's why plasma immidiately came to mind as an off-hand remark to that off-hand statement). I just think it is in an incredibly unhealthy balance at the moment with regards to having special supply measures just to affect it, how (with regards to a ~1-75 scale mode) being hard to catch is one thing but being so hard to catch that it has become is really unhealthy with regards to escaping 1vX and engaging Xv1 (feeding gank and troll behaviours; stream sniping and similar abuse) or how stale builds are because you just stack the same goodies rather than trading one thing for another. On the flipside, it is well known that it could use som appeal in larger scale, but it is not like it is completely without application even if it doesn't have much of a role in a stale 1-commander pickup meta.

 

That ties into whatever discussion you are having now because I don't know any decent or better Thief that struggles against your run of the mill LB2 Ranger.

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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 As stated previously, this is not about how to counter anything.

This is about the All Reward and Almost No Risk Gameplay that is Ranger Long bow.

When I was doing 25k Backstabs...I was the 1st to say this is a problem. When Prada and me rolled into 2 vs 10 time and time again and if you were that part of the 10 that didnt flee....You were getting rolled, I was saying this is a problem.

Now when I come here and point out obvious very serious balance issues....You try to do anything but acknowledge that is and should be a concern.

14 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Oh for cripes sake. You're not asking questions any more than questions I could ask you about the kitten thief. You're ranting about the range of the skills. We get it. And I literally told you, I dont disagree. The range is there whether you like it or not. I just dont see it as a huge problem because that type of build to cash in on longbow range is often the +1 squishy type that is easily overwhelmed. I usually have more difficult fights against far tankier melee sustain rangers. 

 So start asking these questions. As much as it pains to to respond to a guy with 8k posts that clearly has an opinion about everything, at this point I'd be more than happy to respond.

This isnt about me or thieves in general.....This is about marketability.

 People that do nothing but die in a game.....Do Not play that game for long.

Nothing would make me happier than to see every server full of new customers happily fighting 50 vs 50 vs 50 in SM throne room.

I am pointing out (imo) obvious biases within Ranger game play, and I get it that you have no logical response to things like "Why is Ranger Harpoon Gun allowed a massive range advantage when EVERY other class using the same weapon with virtually the same damage has 20% less range?" so you try to deflect.  If thief is so easy...Play it.

If you have no objections to every class having access to a 1750+ range weapon and game play that reflects combat at those ranges step up and say so.

RANGER IS ALL REWARD AND VIRTUALLY NO RISK.

People that do nothing but die in a game  DO NOT PLAY THAT GAME FOR LONG.

iT'S FUNDAMENTAL GAME DESIGN 101.

If wvw is seriously meant to be a core feature and marketed more aggressively, Long Bow needs balanced.

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23 minutes ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

I am pointing out (imo) obvious biases within Ranger game play,

I think it is more so that people do not agree with your opinion, so I'd suggest trying to illustrate your issues with better arguments and examples, so those can be discussed. I do not know if this applies to you, but I think Thieves fascination with LB Rangers on these forums in general has more to do with that they are not used to reveals or they do not account for LB2 following them in stealth if it is initiated before stealth and so on. Those aren't really valid concerns, especially not with regards to Thief given its kit and toolbox to adapt. It becomes even more extreme if the thing people have issues with is a one trick pony build such as the typical tower Ranger that builds everything into an LB2 setup (that can be avoided, mitigated, stopped and countered). As a result people question your motives and its up to you to get through to them.

 

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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 LoL Again, As stated previously.....This is not about me or w/e class I play.

Did none of you watch this video? This is purely about this video.

Why has/is Ranger Long bow allowed to exploit this design concern with mounts? What other class can unmount you and kill you in less than a second? How is this fair? The guy dodged the lance and still is allowed to be unmounted and killed in 1 second

 Truly it's sad that none of you appreciate how comically unfair this has remained for so long.

When I point out that Ranger....for some reason....Is allowed to have this massive Range advantage underwater with the EXACT same weapon as a number of other classes, that for all intensive purposes does the exact same damage.

I get it that you dont want to acknowledge how painfully easy it is to face roll in wvw with just Long Range Shot and Rapid Fire, but go and watch this video again. and answer me this one question if nothing else.  " Why is this even possible? " Not how

 Why.

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1 hour ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

 LoL Again, As stated previously.....This is not about me or w/e class I play.

Did none of you watch this video? This is purely about this video.

I did watch it. I also replied to the OP with some commentary somewhere on page 1-2 and the OP gave thanks.

I do not have much further to add to that than what I already said on those early pages. It may be nitpicking over split second decisions but the situation was avoidable and a couple of mistakes were made to end up with those results. I think that goes for all of us. We've all died to LB2 surprises, me inlcuded. It's just that I don't in general and whenever I have, I have recognized it as my own mistakes rather than some balance issue.

Like I said on page 1-2 for me its rather an issue of whether it is good for the game or not to have certain builds or approaches that punishes new/inexperienced players as much as some do. However, that is not without counterplay and it is repeatable on a number of other burst builds. You can achieve dismount kills on plenty of other classes and builds from Fresh Air to Mesmers to Gunflame to DH to Rev (and that is just assuming power builds rather than stacking up critical levels of conditions on a mounted player that then gets demounted and knocked down). In fact, it may even still be possible on Deadeye if you optimize for it. Like others have said with regards to both that and whatever underwater discussion you had. It isn't really relevant whether you can or can't do those things. It is more relevant to discuss the practicality and commonality of doing it and avoiding it.

 

It is more so that people are doing than ripping on you for playing Thief. If anything, you brought up playing Thief and what specifics you feel you face against Rangers.

 

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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2 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

Why is this even possible? " Not how

 Why.

It's possible because the guy was glassy as heck.  That's his choice and his risk. 

 

Sometimes you get blown up when you run 0 toughness and make bad choices. 

 

He got a Christian burial not like he was left for the crows jeez 

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still, any direct oneshot should be totally disabled at this point of the game, where anet gutted a ton of dmg of many classes. the glass thing isn't an argument, as thief and ranger, basic glass cannons, can still tank quite a lot of direct hits of heavy classes. rarely to never instadown, as it used to be.

 

ergo, these fast bursters should also not be able anymore to get these cheap noscope downs. anet messing up their own balance, if you want to call it alike.

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17 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

2 weeks later since the other post decided this was worth digging up, my point was mainly that everybody, including condi, can do this to a mounted player. Because being on a mount and taking damage no matter the source or the intensity is dangerous.

 

Right, but are there any builds, condi or power, that can do this in under 2 seconds from up to ~1800 range?  Anything that could delete a player before they even hit the ground from the dismount, as we saw here?

 

Not trying to make this about the build in the video, but since people seem to be deflecting with "other builds can do it too," I'm asking what other builds can do exactly what was in the video, that quickly, from that range.

  

17 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The "stat bug" is in fact irrelevant. Tbh I still think that without the "bug", the player would have died anyway in that burst.

 

I'm no expert on the damage calculations, but I think UmbraNoctis's breakdown seems reasonable:

 

On 8/5/2021 at 2:00 AM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Neither is there anything wrong about what's shown in the video. RF takes about 1,7s with quickness. That lines up with the time in the vid - slightly less than 2 seconds - from the first bow hit to downstate (count poison ticks if you don't believe me). Most (if not all) of smoke assault dmg happens afterwards and gets absorbed by the down invuln. The dmg numbers themself are also nothing impossible. ~1,5k*10 from RF +~2k*5 from OWP, that's easy 25k dmg with some crit luck (~23k were needed in the vid, since mount already had lost hp).

 

And if I'm not mistaken, there is zero armor mitigation in these numbers given the stat bug.

 

From the Wiki:

 

Quote

Base strike damage is given by the following equation:

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient)/(target's Armor)

 

 

I normally have 2,629 armor while mounted, and 2,168 off mount.  Had player armor been applied during the dismount, would it have prevented the instant downstate?  Maybe someone better with the numbers can answer.

Edited by Twilight Tempest.7584
armor stat correction
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4 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I don't know any decent or better Thief that struggles against your run of the mill LB2 Ranger.

 

4 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I think Thieves fascination with LB Rangers on these forums in general has more to do with that they are not used to reveals or they do not account for LB2 following them in stealth if it is initiated before stealth and so on.

 

I know it's slightly off-topic, but I'll add to this discussion by saying I, like many newer WvWers, started off on LB/GS Soulbeast for its relative ease of play and ranged safety.  The Sic'em reveal and projectile tracking into stealth also made it seem like a Thief killer, something of particular importance to me having briefly played Mesmer and fallen prey to many a Thief.  And yet, even on Ranger, I got destroyed by halfway decent thieves.  It was simply embarrassing.

 

So I tried Thief myself.  To be perfectly candid, on my Thief, I love fighting all manner of Ranger builds.  Usually, the only time they're difficult is when they can hide behind their group or walls, in which case, I mostly don't bother.  But I will sometimes try and get the jump on them during their RF or Barrage, interrupting them, forcing a dodge, and whittling them down if they don't disengage fast enough.  And I am by no means great.  The tankier Ranger builds are definitely more of a (fun) challenge.

 

57 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

It's possible because the guy was glassy as heck.  That's his choice and his risk. 

 

Sometimes you get blown up when you run 0 toughness and make bad choices. 

 

He got a Christian burial not like he was left for the crows jeez 

 

I presume you're referring to me (the OP) and not the Ranger in the vid, since you mentioned the Christian burial (complete with farewell jumps ceremony).  I thought it was well established by now that I was not glass, but the Ranger clearly was. 😕

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3 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

 

Right, but are there any builds, condi or power, that can do this in under 2 seconds from up to ~1800 range?  Anything that could delete a player before they even hit the ground from the dismount, as we saw here?

No, as I keep saying, ranged power is superior.

 

But I have still been able to stack up condis on someone riding and watched them down then within a moa. A ranger can burst someone all day - especially if they macro the sequence - I just do it when I get lucky or the rider is being a fool and staying mounted while I stack up condi. Not to mention larger groups doing this a CCing until dead.

 

I dont really understand why the argument here has shifted to the long range of the ranger is super OP therefor the dismount "bug" is at fault and that should be fixed.

 

People are arguing something that would have been little to no difference without a mount involved. Because we seen those videos too, lots of them. Are those clips just "for fun by a skilled ranger" or what? But this dismount "bug" is horrid, sure. 

 

And if people keep wondering why its a "bug", would still argue its by design. Good design to discourage you from being a fool and riding/hopping/taunting foes in the middle of a fight while people shoot at you. Maybe Anet didnt intend it. I dont really care. People complain enough on the strengths of the mount as something bad for WvW, but when a drawback is found its oh no no no that cant be!

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7 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

 LoL Again, As stated previously.....This is not about me or w/e class I play.

Did none of you watch this video? This is purely about this video.

Why has/is Ranger Long bow allowed to exploit this design concern with mounts? What other class can unmount you and kill you in less than a second? How is this fair? The guy dodged the lance and still is allowed to be unmounted and killed in 1 second

 Truly it's sad that none of you appreciate how comically unfair this has remained for so long.

When I point out that Ranger....for some reason....Is allowed to have this massive Range advantage underwater with the EXACT same weapon as a number of other classes, that for all intensive purposes does the exact same damage.

I get it that you dont want to acknowledge how painfully easy it is to face roll in wvw with just Long Range Shot and Rapid Fire, but go and watch this video again. and answer me this one question if nothing else.  " Why is this even possible? " Not how

 Why.

 

Are you really arguing that ranger harpoon gun is OP? I can't decide if you are a troll or ill informed 🤣

 

Give me thief spear and I'll trade you ranger harpoon gun any day.  

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5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

No, as I keep saying, ranged power is superior.

 

But I have still been able to stack up condis on someone riding and watched them down then within a moa. A ranger can burst someone all day - especially if they macro the sequence - I just do it when I get lucky or the rider is being a fool and staying mounted while I stack up condi. Not to mention larger groups doing this a CCing until dead.

 

So like I suggested two weeks ago, it sounds like nothing out there is capable of capitalizing on the dismount bug quite like a Memebeast.  Pretty sure that's because the RF channel not only dismounts, but continues through the dismount, during the window the player has base stats.  Any single strike 1-shot build will nuke the mount, but it won't carry over to the player during and after dismount.  And again, condi-bombs by their DoT nature provide more time to respond.

 

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

People are arguing something that would have been little to no difference without a mount involved. Because we seen those videos too, lots of them. Are those clips just "for fun by a skilled ranger" or what? But this dismount "bug" is horrid, sure. 

 

Speaking only for myself, yes, it would have made all the difference:

  

On 8/5/2021 at 2:45 AM, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

I don't think I have problems with that build either as long as I'm not CC'd and temporarily naked from forced dismount.  I mean between today and that other day, this guy probably tried to burst me at least half a dozen times, but he never succeeded when I was on foot (even today when he thought he snuck up on me while I was capping the SE Sentry) and he had to run into his Keep every time.  The one time he got me was in the OP clip while I was on Warclaw trying not to waste time with him. 😕

 

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I dont really understand why the argument here has shifted to the long range of the ranger is super OP therefor the dismount "bug" is at fault and that should be fixed.

 

And if people keep wondering why its a "bug", would still argue its by design. Good design to discourage you from being a fool and riding/hopping/taunting foes in the middle of a fight while people shoot at you. Maybe Anet didnt intend it. I dont really care. People complain enough on the strengths of the mount as something bad for WvW, but when a drawback is found its oh no no no that cant be!

 

I mean, the player base has always been divided into two camps when it comes to 1-shot interactions.  Either they think 1-shots are healthy or they aren't.  The only reason there's crossover discussion of the Memebeast is because practically speaking, it's probably the only thing likely to capitalize on the dismount bug.

 

I think the bug should be fixed regardless.  No one honestly expects to be stripped of their armor during forced dismount in addition to being CC'd.  The CC is punishment enough.  It still forces a stun break + defensive skill.  I just don't see any reason for it to exist other than to reward degeneracy.

 

Personally, I see the Warclaw simply as a means of getting around the map faster.  I didn't experience it when it was "OP."  Regardless of their views on the Warclaw, I'm going to guess that 99% of WvW players do not expect to be downed before the forced dismount animation even completes.  I'm going to suggest that's reason enough it should not happen.

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13 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Right, but are there any builds, condi or power, that can do this in under 2 seconds from up to ~1800 range?  Anything that could delete a player before they even hit the ground from the dismount, as we saw here?

I think this is one of those things where you might need to be a bit careful with the wording. It is skirting fairly close to a "what named Ranger, besides a Ranger can do these things?" stipulation. I think the overarching discussion is interesting. That is why I post here. However, keeping the topic relevant to whatever the larger discussion is, is important. I presume the larger discussion is whether LB2 should see further nerfs or not and like I've tried bringing into the thread: That question is complicated. Maybe it does. Just not necessarily for being too good or problematic in general.

 

As for the general point of dismount kills, I gave a short list of classes/builds that can (without too much juggling) achieve a dismount and kill within the dismount knockdown. I think that is a fair point, so we don't delve down into a discussion of exceptions, bugs and lag. If something like LB2 breaks mechanics or has some unforseen mechanical exceptions then, yes, that should be treated as a bug and squashed. However, I find the overarching discussion of balance and general dismount kills more interesting.

 

The post with the list also serves as something I'd wish people would do more on the forums these days. We have many readily available tools to put "magic" into plausible numbers. Use them and argue the points even if theory is never as good as practise. It just helps alot with all these "inconceivable!" outbursts we see on the forum. If data supports something it quickly brings discussion to a healthier point, even if it can still be discussed and data is never full truth.

 

Now, I personally don't have a habit of chasing people around on mounts - but to draw some relation - I did mention Rev as an example and I have (this year) achieved something similar on that by basically two-shotting a running player through its downstate (landing a synched burst just before and after its downstate immunity; sending it from full HP to the WP in 2s). That puts some anecdotal evidence to support the data and suggests that it should be no problem to achieve something similar in the mount to downstate context. There are also part situations that would support such a line of thinking, such as players dismounting and taking damage by simply running through a stack of traps or similar.

 

If the larger discussion grows to talking about tower Rangers and how that is a relatively boring, negative or lazy approach to playing the game, then I would agree with you hands down 😁. When it comes to Rangers though, I'm more scared if I see another build and things like immo-builds are far more of a balance issue.

 

Edited by subversiontwo.7501
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13 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

It's possible because the guy was glassy as heck.  That's his choice and his risk. 

 

Sometimes you get blown up when you run 0 toughness and make bad choices. 

 

He got a Christian burial not like he was left for the crows jeez 

 

Let's have a comparison between two "glass" builds, shall we?
The soulbeast from the video vs a staff weaver. Both are "glass" but only one is really squishy and dies in a second while hasn't the same DPS output.

Glass in GW2 doesn't really mean glass, when you can combine it with mobility, stealth or invulnerability skills. On a weaver you could be glass as possible and that soulbeast wouldn't die if not afk - while the other way around the weaver would be killed by autoshots from the SB.

That doesn't mean you cannot build an Elementalist as glass and be successful, but it's still mediocre compared to most of what you'd call "glass". (ie Thief, SB, Engineer, Guardian)

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4 minutes ago, diomache.9246 said:

 

Let's have a comparison between two "glass" builds, shall we?
The soulbeast from the video vs a staff weaver. Both are "glass" but only one is really squishy and dies in a second while hasn't the same DPS output.

/.../

That doesn't mean you cannot build an Elementalist as glass and be successful, but it's still mediocre compared to most of what you'd call "glass". (ie Thief, SB, Engineer, Guardian)

Well it certainly is mediocre if you attempt to run a square peg through a round hole while holding the round peg in your other hand. That is another interesting observation with these forums. It was only a couple of days ago that we had a thread (with alot of Rangers) complaining about Eles and how much range burst/burst-counter they had. We see it all the time with people complaining about conditions being too good and too bad at the same time too. Many times poor examples are as easy as "pick up a sword", "pick up a scepter" and the like. So Eles may have good glassy builds but their blob build may not be the best roamer, for good reason.

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14 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

 

Right, but are there any builds, condi or power, that can do this in under 2 seconds from up to ~1800 range?  Anything that could delete a player before they even hit the ground from the dismount, as we saw here?

Not from that range, no. But that alone is not a reason as to why ranger shouldn't be able to do that. Different classes are good at different stuff. Ranger and Soulbeast in particular obviously excels at ranged single target burst. But it sucks at other stuff. Support or ranged aoe for example. Stuff that tends to be even more valuable for WvW in the grand scheme of things.

 

(In the video the ranger was attacking from 0-700 range anyway, so why is it the potential range that is now a problem out of a sudden?)

 

4 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Regardless of their views on the Warclaw, I'm going to guess that 99% of WvW players do not expect to be downed before the forced dismount animation even completes.  I'm going to suggest that's reason enough it should not happen.

That's such a dumb argument, sry. There is a lot of stuff that players won't expect to happen before it happens the first time. But players are able to learn, no? Just like you did yourself according to some of your posts. So where is the problem?

 

Mounts should not grant safe passage. I'd even go as far and say the real problem is that many other builds - especially melee builds - can not dismount without landing lance and lance is very unreliable.

Edited by UmbraNoctis.1907
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7 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

I think this is one of those things where you might need to be a bit careful with the wording. It is skirting fairly close to a "what named Ranger, besides a Ranger can do these things?" stipulation. I think the overarching discussion is interesting. That is why I post here. However, keeping the topic relevant to whatever the larger discussion is, is important. I presume the larger discussion is whether LB2 should see further nerfs or not and like I've tried bringing into the thread: That question is complicated. Maybe it does. Just not necessarily for being too good or problematic in general.

 

I hear you.  That sub-discussion originates from an assertion that a focused condi attack is comparable to what's in the clip, as well as generally from the various claims that other builds can readily dismount people.  I'm just trying to emphasize that nothing I'm aware of besides Memebeast is going to fully down a player before the dismount animation even completes.  I do so only in response to various "XYZ build can do it too!" comments.  Hopefully I've made clear throughout this discussion that I personally am not suggesting any changes to Rangers at this time.

 

7 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Now, I personally don't have a habit of chasing people around on mounts - but to draw some relation - I did mention Rev as an example and I have (this year) achieved something similar on that by basically two-shotting a running player through its downstate (landing a synched burst just before and after its downstate immunity; sending it from full HP to the WP in 2s).

 

Impressive.  But did you make their downstate immunity kick in before they even landed on the ground?  😜

 

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Not from that range, no. But that alone is not a reason as to why ranger shouldn't be able to do that. Different classes are good at different stuff. Ranger and Soulbeast in particular obviously excels at ranged single target burst. But it sucks at other stuff. Support or ranged aoe for example. Stuff that tends to be even more valuable for WvW in the grand scheme of things.

 

(In the video the ranger was attacking from 0-700 range anyway, so why is it the potential range that is now a problem out of a sudden?)

 

As I responded above in this post, I'm only getting into the specifics of Ranger insofar as others have deflected from it by saying "but other things can do it too!"  Because I don't think anything else can quite do it as effectively.  And specifically concerning the dismount bug, RF burst uniquely takes advantage by both dismounting and continuing through the dismount--within a very large radius no less.  Sure, one can come up with other build rotations with chained/channeled burst, but they're going to be done much closer, so therefore less likely in the case of a fleeing target (one who's already dodged Lance no less), and certainly more within an obvious danger zone.  There are some comments in here which are clearly anti-Ranger.  Mine aren't among them.  Fix the bug; don't change Ranger.

 

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

That's such a dumb argument, sry. There is a lot of stuff that players won't expect to happen before it happens the first time. But players are able to learn, no? Just like you did yourself according to some of your posts. So where is the problem?

 

It's not dumb to fix a bug that unexpectedly applies base stats during forced dismount.  What if I told you there are certain places on the map where if you walk over them, you'll be instantly downed.  You won't expect it before you experience it the first time, and you can l2p by remembering where they are.  Sound ridiculous?  That's how ridiculous the dismount bug is.  It's pretty clear even from the experienced players posting here that many were unaware of it.  Reasonable expectations matter.  They are a legitimate basis for changes.  Fix the bug.

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8 hours ago, diomache.9246 said:

 

Let's have a comparison between two "glass" builds, shall we?
The soulbeast from the video vs a staff weaver. Both are "glass" but only one is really squishy and dies in a second while hasn't the same DPS output.

Glass in GW2 doesn't really mean glass, when you can combine it with mobility, stealth or invulnerability skills. On a weaver you could be glass as possible and that soulbeast wouldn't die if not afk - while the other way around the weaver would be killed by autoshots from the SB.

That doesn't mean you cannot build an Elementalist as glass and be successful, but it's still mediocre compared to most of what you'd call "glass". (ie Thief, SB, Engineer, Guardian)

I only play ele and tempest which both have magnetic aura.  For a tempest running like scepter/focus, pew-pew is nothing, it actually helps most of the time.   A good weaver can evade and dodge all day from what I've seen.

 

Playing 0 toughness is all I consider glass.  With 0 toughness you might as well not even run vitality it is practically useless.

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