What will be the Counter to Virtuoso ?

[Naqam a.6521]

If for example the damage of the Virtuoso stays the same as the presentation , and can easily kill the Necros , does the current form of Shiro Rev and Daredevil can beat it ?

Will it be a successful  Rock/Paper/Scissor scenario  ?

[Guirssane.7082]

A 3s channeling laser beam seems pretty kitten in pvp if you ask me. 

Didn't find the damage that incredible besides the ult

[Crab Fear.1624]

daredevil

[Leonidrex.5649]

virt has no built in mobility, cleansing, CC, boons or conditions ( as far as we know, traits OFC can change it )
F4 is no longer invulnerability, its a channeled block, so unblockable CC will kitten it over, cough cough, necro warhorn/staff5/swipe for example.
I suspect any power oriented roamer will be bullying virt big time, thief, rev, LR/fresh air weaver.
But its just what we see right now, god knows what they decide to shove into the traits

EDIT
also by looking at the dagger skills and utilities there is a very high chance that everything is projectile, which means proj block/reflect will be omega kittening lul, expecially the elite
 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649

[Arheundel.6451]

The elite didn't even get released and...

 

 

 

[Markri.9475]

Its way too early to tell. The showcase I assume is PvE numbers.

 

@Leonidrex.5649 As an example: Daredevil. Currently meta thief is DrD, but doesnt use staff. doesnt use drd utilities, nor the elite. It's all in the traits.

We dont know what options exist in Virtuoso's traitlines.

 

I look forward to fight no-clone mesmers, I hope it will be a viable meta proffesion.

[phokus.8934]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The elite didn't even get released and...

 

 

 

People see pve numbers and freak out.

[Loboling.5293]

I'm pretty sure thief, spellbreaker, ranger, guardian, ele and rev will all have tools to deal with Virtuoso. One of my favorite things about the spec is that is doesn't look OP. So it can be tuned to do one thing very well, rather than the bloat that took over gw2. It's a damage burst class with limited defenses. Anyone who can avoid the burst, through blocks & evades will be able to counter them.

However, if the balance team gets things right, then when pulled off right, it should nuke classes really well. (Like necro) I'm really hoping the elite specs come with a balance patch to the rest of the game. So much needs to be changed.

[Fueki.4753]

I suspect Scourge will be the counter to Virtuoso.

 

In average matches, Scourge will likely continue to be the counter to everything except heal spam.

[HokenPWNZ.7628]

• Amateuroso

[Genesis.5169]

Everyone because in 6months its gonna get nerfed regardless if its good or not. No mesmer build stay's viable for long haven't you guys learned this from the portal nerf way back in core?

[Fueki.4753]

8 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Everyone because in 6months its gonna get nerfed regardless if its good or not. No mesmer build stay's viable for long haven't you guys learned this from the portal nerf way back in core?

Given that the most annoying part, which many players have trouble fighting against (clone clutter), is gone, it might be different this time. Since they claimed to "break the rules" with EoD specializations, Mesmer might become effective in top end play.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Sunshine.5014]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I suspect Scourge will be the counter to Virtuoso.

 

In average matches, Scourge will likely continue to be the counter to everything except heal spam.

 

Actually, what Scourge afraid the most is hard burst. For a game of attrition, Scourge always come out ahead. If you can't kill a scourge 1v1 in the first 15s, it's better to just run since all their barriers are about to be off cool down again.

[Dahkeus.8243]

I'd be surprised to see Virtuoso have a very strong presence in PvP since it seems very heavily designed for PvE. 

 

All it really seems to do is damage, which makes it not much unlike something like a rifle berserker.  It'll nab some big kills at the start of a match maybe, but once people see it, they'll just shut it down and farm it for the rest of the game and higher tiers of PvP  probably won't see it much at all. 

 

Any sort of projectile defense/reflect looks like it'll break this build too.

 

But it's hard to really say yet since we still don't know about the traits and actual numbers for PvP.

[Aeolus.3615]

57 minutes ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

I'd be surprised to see Virtuoso have a very strong presence in PvP since it seems very heavily designed for PvE. 

 

All it really seems to do is damage, which makes it not much unlike something like a rifle berserker.  It'll nab some big kills at the start of a match maybe, but once people see it, they'll just shut it down and farm it for the rest of the game and higher tiers of PvP  probably won't see it much at all. 

 

Any sort of projectile defense/reflect looks like it'll break this build too.

 

But it's hard to really say yet since we still don't know about the traits and actual numbers for PvP.

 

Sounds like a good bait to force target  behind those defenses and use its elite 😈

Edited August 7, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Downstate.4697]

Its a ranged spec and should be played like one. Dagger/ torch with greatsword or staff and prismatic understanding. Lots of stealth uptime with manipulations

[Lucentfir.7430]

18 hours ago, Naqam a.6521 said:

If for example the damage of the Virtuoso stays the same as the presentation , and can easily kill the Necros , does the current form of Shiro Rev and Daredevil can beat it ?

Will it be a successful  Rock/Paper/Scissor scenario  ?

You won't ever know until you get your hands on it and play. For all you know current iteration seen is probably running a PVE build. Probably still won't stop the whine when people actually play it though and call it busted for X Y and Z reasons, like every other elite spec. 

[Dadnir.5038]

Virtuoso's counter will be anything with high mobility and hard CC. The advantage of virtuoso is that it got longer range than scourge on it's aoes, it's disadvantage is that he can't afford to take as many hits as the scourge yet have the same weaknesses. Also, building daggers/blades seem very tedious, which mean that aiming for high burst will require more time than other mesmer specs (The virtuoso looked pretty slow in building power to me).

[Sunshine.5014]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Virtuoso's counter will be anything with high mobility and hard CC. The advantage of virtuoso is that it got longer range than scourge on it's aoes, it's disadvantage is that he can't afford to take as many hits as the scourge yet have the same weaknesses. Also, building daggers/blades seem very tedious, which mean that aiming for high burst will require more time than other mesmer specs (The virtuoso looked pretty slow in building power to me).

 

Virtuoso will have access to a lot of teleport, invul and stealth to disengage. Moa is also a good +1 burst setup if needed.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 minute ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Virtuoso will have access to a lot of teleport, invul and stealth to disengage. Moa is also a good +1 burst setup if needed.

Still feel slow.

 

Right now, the average mesmer build 3 clones which already take a bit of time usually, the virtuoso will build 5 blades which will take a lot more time. The weapon (dagger) they presented was building what, 1 blade every 5-6 seconds? I think this is were the main weakness of the spec lie, but at the same time maybe it might make scepter popular.

 

Also, one have to consider the misdirection loss from the lack of clones, foes won't need to be as focused when facing a virtuoso than they need to be when facing a mesmer. It cut a lot of the advantage of the tools to disengage.

 

I might be wrong but I don't feel like the virtuoso will excel at sPvP. I think it more likely for him to shine as a dps in WvW zergs (Which isn't a bad thing at all).

[Pimsley.3681]

15 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Everyone because in 6months its gonna get nerfed regardless if its good or not. No mesmer build stay's viable for long haven't you guys learned this from the portal nerf way back in core?

 

Too soon to say but Im guessing the new thief Elite. 

Agree with your quote about mesmer builds not staying viable for long. I do remember when HoT came out the Chronomancer was broken unkillable.

[Arheundel.6451]

19 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

People see pve numbers and freak out.

Everybody knows that EoD elites will be broken/OP at launch, that much everybody should have realized by now as it's a common marketing strategy to sell the product...it's what happen next that really matters and what people fail to realize,  the meta will have same professions at the top as now after some time, just different specs..but exactly the same professions. 

 

Virtuouso may be OP at launch I dunno..but he will follow the same path of chronomancer and mirage this much I can fully predict

[frareanselm.1925]

The anet holy cows scourge and guardian, nothing will change

[Quadox.7834]

thief

[mortrialus.3062]

Thief, like always.

 

Virtuoso looks like a niche choice with clear counters that handful of players will make look broken like Sic Em Sniper or Fresh Air Weaver at the start of POF.  These sorts of builds always struggled against thieves.  They're just perfectly built to ruin long range crit fighter's day.

 

Still, I'm very excited to see what a truly long range, aoe burst power mesmer can do.  We've always had power mesmer but it's always been about shot gunning its combo point blank rather than having true capability to camp on no port and cast at max range.

Edited August 11, 2021 by mortrialus.3062