Is basic elementalist unviable?

[ManaPotato.3279]

After long break I decided to start fresh on elementals. I really dig the class and combo finishers. Class flows really well.

 

Even though I own both expansions, I feel core elementalist is very elegant and super straightforward.

 

Since I don't play support in PvE I don't need to be tempest. However, so many people roll weaver. Why is that? Is core ele that inferior comparing to weaver that absolutely everyone plays it?

 

In PvP I play core D/D and have so much fun but most people go for expansion specs or something like that. Are core classes super weak now?

 

[Infusion.7149]

Weaver is easier to output power damage unless you play condi elementalist then I think there's a core ele that does something like 30k benchmark (as opposed to condi weaver which is ~39K or something like that with full boons and hard rotation).

For power builds it's better to play weaver or power tempest because sword has high power damage just from autoing. I think a year ago or something along that time-frame someone benchmarked 20K autoattack on weaver while autoing in air attunement. Unlike power tempest it is a less hitbox size dependent (because overload air + lightning orb which are the major damage sources on tempest are heavily RNG on smaller targets). When you want high protection uptime, some range, and large cleave without concern for fractal instabilities then tempest is the better option especially if the target has a larger hitbox to reduce RNG.

There's only two core classes people actually use semi-often PVE-wise, core guardian , core thief, and to a lesser extent core warrior. Core warrior is only when you need might and CC as well as Empower Allies. Core guardian is only used when you can abuse the 20% Unscathed Contender bonus from Aegis being up. Core thief was used on some raid bosses for boon thief.

 

Core mesmer is sometimes used for power spiking builds in PVP or condi PU (since mirage has one dodge in competitive) but rarely elsewhere. Same goes for PVP rangers, some people run Wilderness Survival sustain ranger as opposed to soulbeasts. Core guard is actually meta in PVP and core necro was common until scourge gained popularity again.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[SeTect.5918]

44 minutes ago, ManaPotato.3279 said:

After long break I decided to start fresh on elementals. I really dig the class and combo finishers. Class flows really well.

 

Even though I own both expansions, I feel core elementalist is very elegant and super straightforward.

 

Since I don't play support in PvE I don't need to be tempest. However, so many people roll weaver. Why is that? Is core ele that inferior comparing to weaver that absolutely everyone plays it?

 

In PvP I play core D/D and have so much fun but most people go for expansion specs or something like that. Are core classes super weak now?

 

To make it short: Yes, core classes are super weak. Some are still fine, like core Guardian or core thief. 

 

Elite specs are always better tho. 

 

46 minutes ago, ManaPotato.3279 said:

 

Since I don't play support in PvE I don't need to be tempest. However, so many people roll weaver. Why is that? Is core ele that inferior comparing to weaver that absolutely everyone plays it?

 

Weaver just has far more damage than core ele. 

I play weaver because the rotation is super smooth, u nearly never have to auto attack because of the 100 skills. Its just how i like it. 

There is 1 simple reason why i would not play core and tempest: the 10 sec waiting for attunement change. As tempest u can still at least use overloads, but in core u r Stuck in the attunement and often u can just auto attack then. 

[solemn.9608]

Weaver is, in general, better.

There are some situations in which core ele is still quite good/comparable, like WvW roaming.

see: 

 

[Downstate.4697]

I would say in spvp its not worth playing core ele. Still plenty of fun in wvw.

[ManaPotato.3279]

Thanks everyone for your replies! I guess I'll settle with weaver then. Shame tho cuz core d/d ele is super fun to play.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Core Ele has fewer builds than the subclasses, which is why it feels weaker.

 

Tempest isn't just for support it has a few good builds and is far less fragile than Weaver since you always have the 40% Protection bonus and the ability to Break Stuns on whim without utility skills. Its DPS builds at time have been higher than Weaver, and at one point Fire Tempest was meta even in raids not long ago.

 

Weaver has more damage if played properly, but it can be stressful on your hands over long periods of playtime, plus if you make a mistake you'll pay for it more than on Tempest. This is somewhat mitigated by taking Fire/Arcane or Air/Arcane but that lowers damage compared to Fire/Air.

 

The main benefit of Core is being able to freely take all three trait lines and not be locked into anything. This is good for playing for fun, since you can just do whatever you want.

Remember Ele will always be best played as a jack of all trades.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Jski.6180]

Yes core ele is very much unviable due to power creep of the elite spec and nerfs to the core ele to balance though elite spec. Sadly even the elite spec are borderline unviable too. There is a real active "hate" to the ele class and anet dose every thing it can to keep the class weak.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, ManaPotato.3279 said:

Thanks everyone for your replies! I guess I'll settle with weaver then. Shame tho cuz core d/d ele is super fun to play.

 

Personal preference, but I find weaver so enjoyable I have a hard time playing core or tempest anymore.  The dual attunements are really fun to use!  Maybe you'll appreciate it more once you play around with it a bit.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

for pve, i did make this semi joke post a while ago, showcasing core ele in almost-end-tier pve content. its definitely not meant for optimal play, but until someone says so, i like to believe anything is free game…
 

but using especs is a better and safer route, especially when considering that this game can be played with other people other than yourself

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

Yes core ele is very much unviable due to power creep of the elite spec and nerfs to the core ele to balance though elite spec. Sadly even the elite spec are borderline unviable too. There is a real active "hate" to the ele class and anet dose every thing it can to keep the class weak.

 

Come on.  Core ele is in bad shape and everyone who reads basically any thread on this forum is well aware of your feelings on staff.  But tempest and weaver have viable builds in every game mode. Do you think you can stop salting up every thread with this nonsense already?

[ASP.8093]

On 8/9/2021 at 6:44 PM, ManaPotato.3279 said:

Since I don't play support in PvE I don't need to be tempest. However, so many people roll weaver. Why is that? Is core ele that inferior comparing to weaver that absolutely everyone plays it?

Weaver has a decent number of damage modifiers baked in and the extra cross-attunement #3 skills hit like a truck and have separate cooldowns from your normal #3 skills.

 

Remember also that, to make an elite spec dominant, it doesn't have to be better than every core trait line, it just has to be the *third* best trait line at whatever you're trying to achieve (such as boon output or DPS).

Edited August 11, 2021 by ASP.8093

[ManaPotato.3279]

19 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

Personal preference, but I find weaver so enjoyable I have a hard time playing core or tempest anymore.  The dual attunements are really fun to use!  Maybe you'll appreciate it more once you play around with it a bit.

 

They are super fun to play! But also feel clunky and inconsistent. It somehow lacks in immediate accessibility other specs have.

[Stallic.2397]

Core Ele has the advantage of using weapon #3 skills immediately. You're not locked into rotation like weaver or tempest is either, so the freedom of utility is really tempting. 

 

As for Pvp, I wouldn't say it's unviable. I got to mid plat 1 playing core ele soloq last conquest season. I can link the build. But you have to really understand the weaknesses of other classes in order to exploit them. And yes, core ele is a hard piano class to play. It really depends on the player behind the keyboard. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAg2lNwGZKMP2JOSL5LVA-z5QXG9WA5nAeMA

 

I would ultimately recommend weaver though just cause it's easier, and you'll avoid all the elitists who will try to heavily convince you in game that it's "Elites or nothing!". 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Stallic.2397

[vilkanor.3072]

>is basic elementalist unviable?

yes.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

We could argue  about the definition of "viable" and if elem is it or not; but basic elementalist is below e-spec, but also below most of core classes, in a ratio   damage and sustain /investment.

 

Weaver is pur power creep in almost all aspects for solo : damage, sustain, joy.

Even in group an arcane/water or fire/water weaver is a better support and healer than core, because of the 4sec attunement swap.

If you like d/d core and swap between attunements, you'll love d/d weaver.

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, ManaPotato.3279 said:

 

They are super fun to play! But also feel clunky and inconsistent. It somehow lacks in immediate accessibility other specs have.

 

Clunky was the word I used to describe it initially, but once I got used to it weaver actually has a nuce flow to it.  It's true you can only access part of your kit from your current attunement, but you rotate frequently and between the skills you have available on offhand plus the skills you rotate into there's usually an answer there (especially on sword/focus).

 

The one place it really feels restrictive for me is on breakbars.  Finding a CC with weaver is easy, but chaining them requires you to be in the right attunements to start.

[frareanselm.1925]

about basic ele....pfff...don't know where to start from, played this class (sadly and by mistake) for well over 9k hours and it's the main reason why I campaigned for years to have class changing option in the gemstore, if even once for account. It is also the reason why I ended up repeating everything in the game with 2 other professions ( guardian and ranger but I have a fully geared necromancer and revenant too).

 

1)Non existing class mechanic...you're basically a clown fiesta class design based on "cool" factor instead than practicability, there is zero tactical sense for you to switch attunement : same range, same gameplay. I mean this is a class mechanic well designed: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud  or  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue  or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

2) On ele you just switch attunement and nothing happens unless you use specific traits , you're still stuck on the same range and your utilities pretty much are mediocre self-survival with the most pathetic access to boons in game : no quickness, no alacrity, no retribution , no resistance..you gain access to the same basic boons every other class has access to...but ele has a far limited access to them by respect

3)Outside of dagger/dagger and staff...all other weapon skills are a complete scam , worthless blob of semi-useful skills with long after cast requiring pinpoint accuracy and luck to hit anything else more than a walking potato 

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

about basic ele....pfff...don't know where to start from, played this class (sadly and by mistake) for well over 9k hours and it's the main reason why I campaigned for years to have class changing option in the gemstore, if even once for account. It is also the reason why I ended up repeating everything in the game with 2 other professions ( guardian and ranger but I have a fully geared necromancer and revenant too).

 

1)Non existing class mechanic...you're basically a clown fiesta class design based on "cool" factor instead than practicability, there is zero tactical sense for you to switch attunement : same range, same gameplay. I mean this is a class mechanic well designed: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shroud  or  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue  or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

2) On ele you just switch attunement and nothing happens unless you use specific traits , you're still stuck on the same range and your utilities pretty much are mediocre self-survival with the most pathetic access to boons in game : no quickness, no alacrity, no retribution , no resistance..you gain access to the same basic boons every other class has access to...but ele has a far limited access to them by respect

3)Outside of dagger/dagger and staff...all other weapon skills are a complete scam , worthless blob of semi-useful skills with long after cast requiring pinpoint accuracy and luck to hit anything else more than a walking potato 

 

 

 

Salty.

 

Just wanted to point out that focus offhand is pretty stacked.  Probably the strongest defense set in the game.  It's not all bad!

[ManaPotato.3279]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

Clunky was the word I used to describe it initially, but once I got used to it weaver actually has a nuce flow to it.  It's true you can only access part of your kit from your current attunement, but you rotate frequently and between the skills you have available on offhand plus the skills you rotate into there's usually an answer there (especially on sword/focus).

 

The one place it really feels restrictive for me is on breakbars.  Finding a CC with weaver is easy, but chaining them requires you to be in the right attunements to start.

Idk man, its clunky af and counter intuitive. One of few things that sound good in theory but don't work well in practice. Will see tho, if I don't  end up liking weaver ill just use Tempest or whatever comes in EoD.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, ManaPotato.3279 said:

Idk man, its clunky af and counter intuitive. One of few things that sound good in theory but don't work well in practice. Will see tho, if I don't  end up liking weaver ill just use Tempest or whatever comes in EoD.

 

It's certainly not for everyone, but I literally used the same word to describe it and tried it (briefly) several times before it "clicked" and now I have a hard time playing anything else.  There's really nothing else that plays like Weaver, even other elementalist specs.  So maybe it's the sort of thing it takes awhile to pick up and you either love it or hate it?

[ManaPotato.3279]

On 8/12/2021 at 1:21 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

It's certainly not for everyone, but I literally used the same word to describe it and tried it (briefly) several times before it "clicked" and now I have a hard time playing anything else.  There's really nothing else that plays like Weaver, even other elementalist specs.  So maybe it's the sort of thing it takes awhile to pick up and you either love it or hate it?

It becomes so much better when you realize you can  get the rest of current attunement by pressing its icon again. So you can get into fire twice and get full skill set! 😄

 

Weaver sucks so bad in PvP tho, its unplayable. I can survive for a while and do some damage but always get killed by necros and guards

Edited August 13, 2021 by ManaPotato.3279

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, ManaPotato.3279 said:

It becomes so much better when you realize you can  get the rest of current attunement by pressing its icon again. So you can get into fire twice and get full skill set! 😄

 

Weaver sucks so bad in PvP tho, its unplayable. I can survive for a while and do some damage but always get killed by necros and guards

 

I'm out of the loop on the PvP meta.  Most of my competitive mode play is done in WvW roaming, but I feel I have a solid advantage against most guardian and necro builds.  I seem to do especially well against the more common roamers - reaper and trap DH - the latter feels like it barely stands any chance against sword weaver.  I feel like Sage or Grieving weaver should do well against these builds running sword/focus.  Am I wrong?

[ManaPotato.3279]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

I'm out of the loop on the PvP meta.  Most of my competitive mode play is done in WvW roaming, but I feel I have a solid advantage against most guardian and necro builds.  I seem to do especially well against the more common roamers - reaper and trap DH - the latter feels like it barely stands any chance against sword weaver.  I feel like Sage or Grieving weaver should do well against these builds running sword/focus.  Am I wrong?

 

There is a lot of CC and Chill especially. So it kinda breaks attunement switching. On top of that, burning I inflict feels easy to clean off.

 

Then there are condition spams from Necro and Mesmer. I could put more stances and cause condition cleaning from auras, but then I wouldn't have mobility and stun break.

[Jski.6180]

They are giving weaver an ability to last a bit longer in a pve fight but... nothing for tempest and core ele both of witch already where harder to keep alive in combat with out giving up good dps. I person cant think of a good reason why weaver has always been more tankly then tempest or core ele and more then likely what ever the next elite spec is. That IS ele and how anet treats the class the power creeped class of the most popular version of ele (weaver sadly) gets all of the added effects added buffs with out a though for the other version of ele whom have dps builds (in a lot of ways tempest was a good dps if not the best ele dps in some environments before weaver came along and core ele was a better dps in other environments).