Meet the virtuoso

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That... can be the way, sometimes. Tempest, for instance, is essentially opening up elementalist builds that remain in a single attunement for more than an average of five seconds, while still encouraging attunement swapping in general. This made it easier to pick up than the classical "piano style" approach, while serving as a stepping stone to the even more piano-esque Weaver.

 

And the elementalist veterans who had mastered piano style complained bitterly about the Tempest not catering to them.

 

I could see Virtuoso acting as a similar 'stepping stone'. It has the shatter mechanic, but... you don't have to manage clones, and you don't have to balance the benefits of shattering versus the benefits of keeping clones. You just build up daggers and figure out how best to spend them. It might not be what the veterans would want (except in the sense of being something that can still be used in circumstances where clones just aren't viable at all), but for someone who just hasn't been able to "get" mesmer yet, I could see Virtuoso being the bridge into the profession. Assuming it isn't balanced so poorly that playing it is essentially playing at a handicap, anyway.

Or it can generally make the experience even worse lol it goes both ways, with no clones you are a easy target and with a cast time you can get easily interrupted.

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Or it can generally make the experience even worse lol it goes both ways, with no clones you are a easy target and with a cast time you can get easily interrupted.

Clones are unreliable as a defence even in PvE, and cast times (and projectiles) are things everyone has to deal with.

Edited August 13, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[Heika.5403]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Clones are unreliable as a defence even in PvE, and cast times (and projectiles) are things everyone has to deal with.

Clones often take the agro, only that already helps.  I often put them between me and my enemies so they act as barriers taking the hits from enemies that have single target attacks so even if they are ranged don't reach me if they hit the clones.  You don't have to deal with proyectiles if you use weapons not based in projectiles.  Something i always do in WvW.  In PvP i can careless, i use shortbow in my renegade in its a really good weapon.

[Tseison.4659]

Hello fellow Mesmers! 🔮

 

 Just as a heads up for the BETA testing of the Virtuoso, I’ll be creating a squad and will be testing out the skills, builds and damage numbers in the Special Forces Training Room, which is accessible at the Lion’s Arch Aerodome. 

 

For the first hour/hour and a half I’ll be in there with others doing some thorough testing/theory crafting and then the rest of my personal testing will be in WvW/PvE. So feel free to join if you’d like or do your own testing, up to you. 😄

 

Discord will be available too if anyone wanted to chime in as we’re all testing.

 

See you guys August 17 bright and early!💜

Edited August 13, 2021 by Tseison.4659

[Roda.7468]

Anet, I beg of you, PLEASE stop pushing people to to camp in melee.  Let us spread out and still be trying to contribute as much as we can.

 

We're given a spec that's themed around a ranged dagger thrower, but lmao no u suck if you actually want to be ranged.

Stop it.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

6 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

Anet, I beg of you, PLEASE stop pushing people to to camp in melee.  Let us spread out and still be trying to contribute as much as we can.

 

We're given a spec that's themed around a ranged dagger thrower, but lmao no u suck if you actually want to be ranged.

Stop it.

This. Why the 1200 range if you force us to 600...

[Curunen.8729]

Ah kitten, psychic force isn't an evade. 😕

 

Seems like top line aegis and quickness looks the way to go.

Either that or condi variant with adept 3 and bloodsong plus sharper images.

 

Not sure about some of the traits, seems quite bland overall. GM 1 and 2 seem to overlap too much with blade generation.

A lot of traits look very... pedestrian in concept.

 

A bit meh, actually the main thing that bothers me visually is the blades overhead. Seems a bit inelegant how they move with the character - I realise pretty minor but just looks a bit weird to me.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Curunen.8729

[Levetty.1279]

When he moused over the elite its damage number was half of what it was during the reveal. That was the only new skill that did worthwhile damage.

 

One of the traits is just sharper images instead of making sharper images work for the Virtuoso. 

 

Anybody want to tell me how a trait that will give you 3 blades if you don't bother to summon any after 9 seconds in a fight has him worried about it being too strong?

 

Blades being able to be carried between fights is nice but it looks incredibly lack luster compared to most other elite specs.

[Gibson.4036]

56 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

Anet, I beg of you, PLEASE stop pushing people to to camp in melee.  Let us spread out and still be trying to contribute as much as we can.

 

We're given a spec that's themed around a ranged dagger thrower, but lmao no u suck if you actually want to be ranged.

Stop it.

Agreed. I was suprised after the initial reveal, which looked like a more of a ranged character. If I want to play melee mesmer I can stick to my mirage.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Don't know what kind of set CMC had, he only talked about power. But 7k F1 with 5 blades is worse than core f1 with one clone and IP.

[Azel.4786]

24 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Don't know what kind of set CMC had, he only talked about power. But 7k F1 with 5 blades is worse than core f1 with one clone and IP.

 

He mentions that he was with a 2120 power, but no mention of how much ferocity he has.

 

Regardless, I agree, the core shatter seems much better, both being instant and stronger on the damage side. I was initially looking forward to a more power oriented mesmer that has not been gutted, but the skills and the traits are so meh that I lost interest.

 

Willbender seems very strong, and one grandmaster seems super problematic for WvW, but seems interesting. Necros, well they are all the rage now a days, so not unexpected that Harbringer is also very good.

 

Hope ele gets something on par with Willbender and Harbringer, cause I don't see mesmer working out.

[Zoser.7245]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Don't know what kind of set CMC had, he only talked about power. But 7k F1 with 5 blades is worse than core f1 with one clone and IP.

I'm sure that they are very happy with the Virtuoso.  If something they can release and then ignore completely not only in terms of balance, maybe some nerf at most, but also something to not get worried playing against it. If you see one nearby, it will only take you a short time to knock them out and kill them. The perfect enemy!!!

 

After killing him 20 times, you could even buy him a drink and thank him for playing the Virtuoso and making your day easier and brighter. And also take the opportunity to talk about the experience.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Salt Mode.3780]

Like looking at other e-spec utilities, they gave plasma to necro and elixirs (not as good) from engi but shorter CD, they gave insane mobility to willbender, i dont see how any of the virtuoso utilities match up compared to those especially talking about the elite.

[Heika.5403]

I really want to test how core utilities and elite interact with the use of elixirs. For example, if you can command minions after using an elixir,  and if you have access to core elite and utilities after drinking one. In that case, the Harbinger would be impressive.

[Magolith.9412]

3 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Not sure about some of the traits, seems quite bland overall. GM 1 and 2 seem to overlap too much with blade generation.

A lot of traits look very... pedestrian in concept.

Pretty much my thoughts. A bit underwhelming compared to the other reveals, but it will open up a few new viable builds at least.

[Levetty.1279]

2 minutes ago, Magolith.9412 said:

Pretty much my thoughts. A bit underwhelming compared to the other reveals, but it will open up a few new viable builds at least.

Like?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Essentially Virtuoso is like core mesmer but lacks some of the instant burst and dmg....

[Magolith.9412]

11 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Like?

GS will still reign supreme for burst damage, but I'm a big fan of sustained power non-GS builds. The Feb 2020 patch kinda killed off viability of my power-favoring hybrid builds. Just not enough damage output to break through a lot of what I encounter roaming.

 

A few builds I'd like try out:

- Dag/P + Sw/T hybrid

- Dag/P + Sw/Focus power-leaning hybrid

- Dag/T + Sc/P hybrid

- Dag/P + Sw/T power

 

Some of the thoughts I had:

- Quiet intensity will boost marauder.

- Jagged Mind might have some play in a hybrid. Not sure how much bleeding Virt will be able to stack though.

- Cast times on "shatters" is going to take getting used to.

- Great, I'll have to whack an NPC every time I leave spawn to stock up 5 blades.

- Virt = Bigger bursts

 

Nothing super exciting. Some traits are questionable. Was just brainstorming options that I could use Virt for.

 

Edit: Felt I should add that I feel that Mesmer is still going to be in a "you can do this easier and better on other classes" mode.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Magolith.9412

[Salt Mode.3780]

Its funny how mesmers have to pick up bits and scraps to come up with something competitive while other especs just slaps on anything and could be viable because their base kit is already strong adding on traits to make it even more busted.

 

Also just quoting them,

“The Mesmer is normally known for deviousness, trickery, and complexity, creating illusions to distract enemies and then ‘shattering’ them to various effect. Weaving telekinesis and the Canthan martial traditions of the blade into a wholly new style of fast and active combat, the virtuoso changes this by disregarding trickery and embracing all-out offense, using their magic to summon enchanted blades, which they wield telekinetically for immensely powerful attacks, or inflicting debilitating conditions.”

 

I honestly dont see any of it....I see it in perhaps Harbinger and Willbender....not much so with Virtuoso.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Levetty.1279]

1 minute ago, Magolith.9412 said:

 I'm a big fan of sustained power non-GS builds.

Well there is the problem.

Dagger damage is low.

Shatter damage looks less then core.

They have already nerfed the elite skill.

Phantasmal Blade only looks good on traited GS.

The bleed trait is your standard bleed on crit, you need more then that for a hybrid. 

[Magolith.9412]

Just now, Levetty.1279 said:

Well there is the problem.

Dagger damage is low.

Shatter damage looks less then core.

They have already nerfed the elite skill.

Phantasmal Blade only looks good on traited GS.

The bleed trait is your standard bleed on crit, you need more then that for a hybrid. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

We'll see. I think there will be new viable builds. Trying to not doom-and-gloom before I have a chance to experiment.

[Nephalem.8921]

8 hours ago, Roda.7468 said:

Anet, I beg of you, PLEASE stop pushing people to to camp in melee.  Let us spread out and still be trying to contribute as much as we can.

 

We're given a spec that's themed around a ranged dagger thrower, but lmao no u suck if you actually want to be ranged.

Stop it.

Ranged will always be bad with how boons work. only exception is wvsw. You cant make a working ranged spec in this game. DE only excels at being annoying in wvsw while it is bad everywhere else.

[Roda.7468]

21 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Ranged will always be bad with how boons work. only exception is wvsw. You cant make a working ranged spec in this game. DE only excels at being annoying in wvsw while it is bad everywhere else.

I know, this is a huge problem with the combat.  They didn't need to double down on snuffing out a whole combat approach instead of offering viable ranged options and increasing the range of beneficial party effects across the board. It's like I'm being constantly teased and lead on that I might have a playstyle I'll enjoy, then they continue on making it loud and clear that they don't want people who share my preferences to enjoy high-end content.  It's crap.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Roda.7468

[AXLIB.8425]

16 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Ranged will always be bad with how boons work. only exception is wvsw. You cant make a working ranged spec in this game. DE only excels at being annoying in wvsw while it is bad everywhere else.

being able to put out 39k dps is bad?

[mortrialus.3062]

 

12 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Don't know what kind of set CMC had, he only talked about power. But 7k F1 with 5 blades is worse than core f1 with one clone and IP.

 

Yeah.  And he only had 18k health so it's not like he was in soldier's.  You'd think with the cast time, increased cost of setup, a 5 blade F1 would feel incredibly massive.

 

Virtuoso at this point looks like if you blended core mesmer with power crit staff Ele, which uhhhh, doesn't bode well for PvP.