Necro Elite Spec: The Harbinger

[LucianDK.8615]

I wholly expect dps scourges to get nerfbatted into oblivion, with people keeping QQing about them. Becomming turned wholly into a barrier bot.

Probably for the best, as Scourges could do far too much from the beginning.

So my fingers is crossed for that Harbingers doesnt get shackled by support mechanics., and giving necros a truly competitive dps spec.

Edited August 11, 2021 by LucianDK.8615

[DeathsProphet.7460]

I wanted to see a death based minion spec this time around...something like the "Enemy of my Enemy" quest where you can control the awakened recruits. Nevertheless, I welcome the mobility offered by the Harbinger.  The animations are also great. 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The spec looks flashy and cool. But is it in the spirit of a necromancer?

You have to consider all genres of media. I feel this type of "necromancer" closely resembels the type in castlevania character Isaac. I dont want to spoil anything but the way that character fights in his most epic fight, is very close combat like. Just like this new harbinger spec looks like.

 

As a magic user i feel this type of spec completely misses the mark on what a necromancer should be. But it does look fun to play.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Eddbopkins.2630
Spelling

[Obtena.7952]

I think people better hold off on 'welcoming' the mobility offered by the class. Nothing in the narrative indicated 'mobility'. I see something that resembles a shadowstep in the video. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

What I love most about any video game community in history, is the ability to gain deep balance and gameplay insights from footage that doesn't contain any.

That's for sure ... EoD is already a failure according to some people because of a 1 minute espec clip. These people must be fun at a party. 

 

I'm seeing and hearing things we don't have on a Necro. Not sure what else someone would want ... unless they just carry a big chip on their shoulder. 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

32 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think people better hold off on 'welcoming' the mobility offered by the class. Nothing in the narrative indicated 'mobility'. I see something that resembles a shadowstep in the video. 

 

Honestly, just seeing the definitive roll backwards and the leap forwards in the video is already more mobility than necros are used to.  Especially since I can't see how those will be Elixir skills.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Honestly, just seeing the definitive roll backwards and the leap forwards in the video is already more mobility than necros are used to.  Especially since I can't see how those will be Elixir skills.

Well, how are we defining mobility here ? I consider mobility as movement freedom. We could just be seeing a skill in that video similar to how Rev Hammer 3 works which is just a teleport. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[wickedkae.4980]

Hey maybe this time we will get a real pet class with real pet skills that require deep thought on how to create a legit necro that deals with undead and Anet will realize they have ignored what a real necro does any why people play them....

 

Nevermind.  So this is it huh?  Pistols and we get to damage ourselves to inflict damage while other mobs/players will also be damaging us.  I'm guessing we aren't able to get refunds.  I had stopped playing about 6 months and was hoping anet would realize what people that play a necro want.  I see the devs are still absolutely out of touch with consumers.

[Aravind.9610]

I wonder if the blight mechanic would be something like a debuff that stacks on you. The higher it stacks the more damage you take per tick but also you deal higher damage as well. This would be something like that debuff in Arah P1 where you stand in the light to kill all those Champion Jotun.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Aravind.9610

[LucianDK.8615]

4 minutes ago, wickedkae.4980 said:

Hey maybe this time we will get a real pet class with real pet skills that require deep thought on how to create a legit necro that deals with undead and Anet will realize they have ignored what a real necro does any why people play them....

 

Nevermind.  So this is it huh?  Pistols and we get to damage ourselves to inflict damage while other mobs/players will also be damaging us.  I'm guessing we aren't able to get refunds.  I had stopped playing about 6 months and was hoping anet would realize what people that play a necro want.  I see the devs are still absolutely out of touch with consumers.

I think you havent paid attention to what this round of Especs is supposed to be about. To 'break' the rules for a class. Like Mesmers losing clones and getting summonable swords. 

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

Deaht shroud is "yeah we're kinda range but you really need to faceplant into an enemy for max damage, and here's S2 to help". Unless i missed a rework over those years? Been a while since i touched vanillamancer.

You have. Skill 1 now does full damage at range, skill 2 is now a ranged area attack which flips over into a port rather than always being a port. Skills 4 and 5 still benefit from being in the middle of a mob but you don't have to be.

 

They pretty much committed to reaper shroud being the melee shroud, so core death shroud should be a ranged alternative.

[wickedkae.4980]

56 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

I think you havent paid attention to what this round of Especs is supposed to be about. To 'break' the rules for a class. Like Mesmers losing clones and getting summonable swords. 

this would be fine if Anet actually made a good core class of skills within our builds.  Necros and almost several other classes, do no not operate in a way that a person expects when they pick the class.  When I choose necro I don't think "yay I get to summon stationary sand puddles!".  That statement has been said by no one ever who wants to play as a necro.  Now, instead of necros getting skeletons, golems, REAL ritual magic, we get a pistol and get to jump around... I have no clue how anyone can defend this design ideology.  Anet needs to look for real class designers.  People who actually understand the genre.

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, how are we defining mobility here ? I consider mobility as movement freedom. We could just be seeing a skill in that video similar to how Rev Hammer 3 works which is just a teleport. 

 

You use an example that literally highlights a greater mobility for the harbinger. Rev hammer 3 is worse mobility since you end where you start, harbinger seems to actually end up at their target location. And if the skill is indeed similar in range to rev Hammer 3, then it beats out previous shroud mobility skills like reaper shroud 2 for sure (even core shroud 2 if we assume it won't be projectile based)

 

I'm also confused how you imply 'teleports' don't translate to mobility, we saying teefs are just out here walking regular speed now?

Even by your definition of 'movement freedom', the freedom to move your char and get that mf that's 1200 range away (again going off hammer 3 range assumption) would still count as respectable mobility. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by GeneralBM.5781

[draxynnic.3719]

Strictly speaking, rev hammer 3 DOES leave your starting location, unless it's been reworked and I didn't notice. It's an evade, but you can still take damage from effects that can't be evaded, and if you can get an effect centered on you to trigger while you're at the target location, it will trigger at the target location rather than your start location. It's just that the skill automatically returns you to your start location, so it's functionally a stationary ranged attack covered by an evade for most intents and purposes.

[vilesoldier.9826]

4 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Strictly speaking, rev hammer 3 DOES leave your starting location, unless it's been reworked and I didn't notice. It's an evade, but you can still take damage from effects that can't be evaded, and if you can get an effect centered on you to trigger while you're at the target location, it will trigger at the target location rather than your start location. It's just that the skill automatically returns you to your start location, so it's functionally a stationary ranged attack covered by an evade for most intents and purposes.

 

edited for clarification ty, point still stands

[DanAlcedo.3281]

A Necro E Spec not being OP as kitten in WvW?

Now im hyped for EoD! 🤩

[Vidit.7108]

The overall concept seems cool. This alchemist vibe is a really good idea for neco I think, I'm at least really interested to see if they have support effects at all.

As a thief main I can't be that excited about pistol. Asking what the thief pistol trait does gives you a different answer depending on what year it is. 1200 range? yeah right, they gave thief traited 1080 for like one balance patch and then never again. I'd be worried about them coming for your scepter in a rework because main hand auto on pistol has bleed on thief and engy.

New mobility though is exciting and I'll probably try daggers or something first over pistol during the beta.

[Lily.1935]

I really hope this isn't another selfish elite spec like Reaper is. One of my biggest turn offs to reaper for years, and still now is just how selfish the elite spec is. I think it being as selfish as reaper would disappoint me more than anything else.

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Honestly, just seeing the definitive roll backwards and the leap forwards in the video is already more mobility than necros are used to.  Especially since I can't see how those will be Elixir skills.

 

Let's just say that both the leap forward and the roll backward are utility skills and there is no movement skills on pistol and "shroud skills". That make 0 increase in mobility.

 

Sure, at first glance, as we don't know of the specificities of these skills, it feel more engaging to use than the current options of the necromancer (dark path, death sharge, spectral walk, flesh wurm, march of undeath, sand swell). But it doesn't mean that there is "more".

 

For all we know, the movement skill could be a single glyph that make you leap forward while used "in shroud" and roll backward while used "out of shroud" with a shared 30+s CD. People assume that the utilities are elixirs, but nothing say it is, the elixirs could very well be shroud specific skills.

[Asum.4960]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

Let's just say that both the leap forward and the roll backward are utility skills and there is no movement skills on pistol and "shroud skills". That make 0 increase in mobility.

 

Sure, at first glance, as we don't know of the specificities of these skills, it feel more engaging to use than the current options of the necromancer (dark path, death sharge, spectral walk, flesh wurm, march of undeath, sand swell). But it doesn't mean that there is "more".

 

For all we know, the movement skill could be a single glyph that make you leap forward while used "in shroud" and roll backward while used "out of shroud" with a shared 30+s CD. People assume that the utilities are elixirs, but nothing say it is, the elixirs could very well be shroud specific skills.

In the video we can see both a ~600 range dash as well as a ~900 range leap, even if they are both Utility skills (which I doubt, but even if so, that's still part of the kit), that's already more straight forward mobility than any other Necro spec before. Death's Charge really has been the only instant/non setup movement skill on the entire class before. 

 

As for the roll backward, I'm pretty sure that's just a dodge roll though. 

 

Also, judging from the height of the leap, one thing to keep in mind is that depending on coding of the ability, that could actually matter, as height and distance enable specific skips and such (see Wing's of Resolve on DH allowing a vast array of skips that Leap of Faith can't do, while in turn Leap of Faith still allows for far more mobility and skips than Death's Charge, despite being the same range, due to height). 

 

Unless these are super clunky, long cast time and targeted only abilities (which sure, is still a possibility), these skills could open up a lot of gameplay for Necro.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Dadnir.5038]

11 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Unless these are super clunky, long cast time and targeted only abilities (which sure, is still a possibility), these skills will open up a lot of gameplay for Necro.

That's what we all thought for death's charge but it objectively don't make much of a difference in gameplay despite it's relatively short CD. I think it's better to keep a wait and see stance before drooling over the crumbs that GW2 devs delivered through this teaser.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[Lazze.9870]

13 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Extremely weird that core weapons don't benefit from heat btw.

 

Mirage ambush mechanic: all old weapons get new ambush skills to work with it.

Berserker new burst skills: every weapon gets new burst skills added.

Weaver with new dual skill mechanic: all old weapons get new dual wield skills.

 

Holosmith? Just sword profits from heat, all other weapons don't. I don't get the logic behind this.

 

Because it either would be a straight up buff to older weapons with more heat, or their base functionality would be worse than what they usually are. And at the end of the day it doesn't matter, while those respective mechanics matter for your other examples.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[grave of hearts.7830]

My personal opinion by experience so far.

I am not hyped by the teaser because it doesnt have anything to show other than a gun,and given how anet treats the class we all know how this will go.

They will leave it overpowered for the beta so they can get hype and sales and after  launch comes they will eventually cripple it,just like they did with core and reaper and scourge.

 

 

[Asum.4960]

44 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's what we all thought for death's charge but it objectively don't make much of a difference in gameplay despite it's relatively short CD. I think it's better to keep a wait and see stance before drooling over the crumbs that GW2 devs delivered through this teaser.

Agreed, I'm very much so wait and see on this, I'm just saying, the potential is at least there and it seems more mobile than what we've seen being shown off for Reaper and Scourge especially. 

 

I disagree on Death's Charge though - even though it didn't open up any gameplay opportunities through skips and general terrain circumvention, that skill was a game changer for me with HoT in terms of OW and WvW Roaming (as well as being quite the QoL improvement in PvP to have at least any instant activation escape/gapcloser). 

Sure, most of that got invalidated since with Mounts, but now with on the fly build swapping via hotkeys or the weapon swap button, it's still better than nothing for movement boosts in instanced content and such. 

 

It's very minor, but again, this looks more promising than Death's Charge ever did due to height gain generally allowing terrain skips (something Sand Swell never offered either due to requiring "valid terrain", aka. port to where you can just walk to in almost the same time as it takes to cast, in most cases). 

 

Worst case though it's coded like Bounding Dodger, which while gaining air time visually actually leaves your hitbox on the ground, meaning you can literally fall through gaps that you are visually leaping over. 

I don't think that's the case though, as during the leap we can see the Shroud/skill effect splitting into two entities, the lower of which I'm guessing is the Hitbox, with the character leaping even higher for flair. 

If that's the case, that would put it at around the same height and range (or more, looks like 900 Range minimum) as Wing's of Resolve, which is promising.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Asum.4960

[susana.7814]

13 hours ago, silent killer.5732 said:

Looks like they took away the secondary health bar for one mobility skill. I was all for them to take away our death shroud for a mobility and stealth but the stealth never came. 

 

Alright let's hope we got aiges and quickness at least in exchange for a little bit of cut in our health bar 

But shroud never was a second health bar, and if you're playing necro and just using shroud to block attacks, you're playing it wrong.