Old Content is Not Enjoyable Solo and Needs to be Addressed before EoD

[Kori Jenkins.9017]

I'll start off by saying I'm not a hardcore veteran player that's 10000% dedicated to this game like I imagine most on the forums are. I'd likely be on my 8th birthday in-game (assuming there's a reward for that) had I not deleted that Necromancer to move servers. I play off and on, sometimes going years without playing, for various reasons. In any case, you get the picture, I'm not some min-maxing lunatic (yet). 

 

Something I'm encountering far too frequently in my latest foray into the game is content that is just overtuned relative to popularity. It's primarily content in the expansions rather than the base game. I'm talking hero points, events, collection requirements, etc. 

 

Currently I play this game with a friend, and both of us have recently found ourselves routinely burning Teleport to Friends to help each other knock off hero points and difficult events in a quest to get Maguuma map completion (He's making HMS Divinity, I made Nevermore). Why is this necessary? At the point we're at in the game, why is it required for players who are honestly rather good at the game despite the long absences to group up for small-time content like a hero point? Why is the content still, 6 years removed from current time (an absolute eternity, which I'll go into later), tuned as if the zones are still bustling?

 

One major issue this has caused is the gating of POIs and other things require for map completion behind content that cannot be done in a 2-man. The obvious beast here is Mordremoth in Dragon Stand (which isn't a problem in a vacuum, as groups still run that), but more pressing are the several POIs in Auric Basin and Tangled Depths that straight up are gated behind long event chains that can't be done by two people. Why? What purpose does that server 6 years later? Why not simply remove those POIs, or alternatively remove the invisible walls preventing me from simply going there? 

 

Six years is an absolutely insane length of time in this game as I've seen from discussions being had. Most of the remaining playerbase does not fall into the non-hardcore vet dedicated to the game, as it seems. Even more relatively recent content is basically abandoned at this point because it's not brand new. It's not a problem, but it's a problem when I'm being asked to solo or 2-man content designed with 5-10 in mind. 

 

This brings me to the current predicament, having overcome the previous. How in the hell am I supposed to solo one of the bounties in Kourna to unlock the roller beetle? What kind of ridiculous demand is that? For a mount that I've already effectively paid to unlock by buying the living world episodes to obtain it. I'm now forced to be entirely reliant on the magic appearance of other people to complete a rather basic collection? Why even have requirements like this? What purpose do they serve in this game other than wasting my time, which is a baffling thing to want to do given the lack of a subscription? 

 

Not everything is meant to be easy, I'm fully aware of that, but the difficulty swings so wildly that it gives me whiplash. One hero point might require a champion mob, and another requires eating some rotting bacon, yet both reward the same thing. One POI is accessible at any time, the other requires an event to be completed. It's honestly stupid. It's no different than a slightly fun easter egg hunt for the first roller beetle collection suddenly becoming group content I cannot do alone. I fear the release of EoD will only cause this to get worse. 

[costepj.5120]

What is this obsession with being able to solo 100% of the content in an MMO? I'm a very average player and I can manage the vast majority of things on my own; when I can't I just shout out in guild chat, or map chat, or simply loiter in the vicinity until someone else shows up.

[Obtena.7952]

OP's observations are exactly what made many of my friends leave when HoT was released. It's not an obsession about being able to solo 100% of the content in an MMO (which is an absurd reaction to the OP mind you) ... it's about a reasonable expectation that the most common elements shouldn't be that hard for the average player to complete. 

 

I mean, think about what the OP is saying ... as a solo player, he (and others we know) couldn't get map completion. Think about how ... oppressive ... that is to a casual player just wanting to log in for 30 minutes. 

 

Sure there is a fine line there ... when does Anet turn on the 'need a group' switch for content? Personally, I believe if it's a character-related goal (like, you need to get to the next part of a story) ... that's a VERY inappropriate place to group for content. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Dante.1763]

7 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

What is this obsession with being able to solo 100% of the content in an MMO? I'm a very average player and I can manage the vast majority of things on my own; when I can't I just shout out in guild chat, or map chat, or simply loiter in the vicinity until someone else shows up.

I will say for stuff like hero points not being able to do them solo is frustrating(though 90% of the HOT ones, including the champions can be.)

 

That 10% that cant be though? Incredibly frustrating, and map completion shouldnt be tied to a group imo.

 

On the other hand. Spending days trying to get a group together(13 people total, half from my guild) to do the Legendary Vinetooth for HOPE was frustrating af. POF "metas" can be just as frustrating despite being easier.

 

And also they do have HP trains.

 

Personally i use wvw to just buy the hero points so i dont have to bother.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Nash.2681]

11 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OP's observations are exactly what made many of my friends leave when HoT was released. It's not an obsession about being able to solo 100% of the content in an MMO (which is an absurd reaction to the OP mind you) ... it's about a reasonable expectation that the most common elements shouldn't be that hard for the average player to complete. 

 

I mean, think about what the OP is saying ... as a solo player, he (and others we know) couldn't get map completion. Think about how ... oppressive ... that is to a casual player just wanting to log in for 30 minutes. 

 

Sure there is a fine line there ... when does Anet turn on the 'need a group' switch for content? Personally, I believe if it's a character-related goal (like, you need to get to the next part of a story) ... that's a VERY inappropriate place to group for content. 

While you do have a general point here, I think OP's issue is a bit less complex. This sentence:

"At the point we're at in the game, why is it required for players who are honestly rather good at the game despite the long absences to group up for small-time content like a hero point?" makes me think OP and his friend ain't playing as good as they might think.

I played through HoT and PoF as a duo a few times, and I can count anything that couldn't easily be done as a duo (or requiered a significant different approach on our side) -meta-event related stuff aside (I'm with you on that, individual map completion shouldn't depend on scheduled meta-events)- with the fingers of one hand. Sure, there's few HPs that could need some difficulty fine tuning, but then again, it's rather easy to find some help, be it by map chat or by using the lfg. Can't see the priority here.

[Obtena.7952]

19 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

While you do have a general point here, I think OP's issue is a bit less complex. This sentence:

"At the point we're at in the game, why is it required for players who are honestly rather good at the game despite the long absences to group up for small-time content like a hero point?" makes me think OP and his friend ain't playing as good as they might think.

I played through HoT and PoF as a duo a few times, and I can count anything that couldn't easily be done as a duo (or requiered a significant different approach on our side) -meta-event related stuff aside (I'm with you on that, individual map completion shouldn't depend on scheduled meta-events)- with the fingers of one hand. Sure, there's few HPs that could need some difficulty fine tuning, but then again, it's rather easy to find some help, be it by map chat or by using the lfg. Can't see the priority here.

That's the dig I think ... SHOULD someone need to group to get a map completion or unlock something, even if it's easy to do that? (the specific issue with my friends was that they needed HP's for espec and one map complete for espec weapon unlock). I think that's a big no if it's a personal character thing.  That's the absurity of Anet's thinking in HoT ... that somehow the casual player that (supposedly) they were targeting the game to is going to wait around and cross their fingers people would come and group up for things, especially if it was something as common or necessary as HP's or maps. 

 

I'm hoping what we see in EoD (I doubt the OP will see Anet 'fix' HoT and PoF maps at this point) is a PROGRESSIVE difficulty from the first to last map. At least that way if there are 'unlocks', they are achievable for these people.  

Edited August 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Kori Jenkins.9017 said:

I'll start off by saying I'm not a hardcore veteran player that's 10000% dedicated to this game like I imagine most on the forums are. I'd likely be on my 8th birthday in-game (assuming there's a reward for that) had I not deleted that Necromancer to move servers. I play off and on, sometimes going years without playing, for various reasons. In any case, you get the picture, I'm not some min-maxing lunatic (yet). 

 

Something I'm encountering far too frequently in my latest foray into the game is content that is just overtuned relative to popularity. It's primarily content in the expansions rather than the base game. I'm talking hero points, events, collection requirements, etc. 

 

Currently I play this game with a friend, and both of us have recently found ourselves routinely burning Teleport to Friends to help each other knock off hero points and difficult events in a quest to get Maguuma map completion (He's making HMS Divinity, I made Nevermore). Why is this necessary? At the point we're at in the game, why is it required for players who are honestly rather good at the game despite the long absences to group up for small-time content like a hero point? Why is the content still, 6 years removed from current time (an absolute eternity, which I'll go into later), tuned as if the zones are still bustling?

It is not and those zones do see regular activity. In case of HoT, mostly before or after the meta event and also during prime time.

Quote

One major issue this has caused is the gating of POIs and other things require for map completion behind content that cannot be done in a 2-man. The obvious beast here is Mordremoth in Dragon Stand (which isn't a problem in a vacuum, as groups still run that), but more pressing are the several POIs in Auric Basin and Tangled Depths that straight up are gated behind long event chains that can't be done by two people. Why? What purpose does that server 6 years later? Why not simply remove those POIs, or alternatively remove the invisible walls preventing me from simply going there? 

I've map completed HoT maps on more than 10 characters each, PoF 4-5, core on over 14 characters.

 

Everything on those maps is reach-able or solo-able by competent players, the amount of POI, vistas and HP actually gated or completely locked behind the meta is insignificant (mostly due to players not knowing how to get there without finishing the meta).

 

Quote

This brings me to the current predicament, having overcome the previous. How in the hell am I supposed to solo one of the bounties in Kourna to unlock the roller beetle? What kind of ridiculous demand is that? For a mount that I've already effectively paid to unlock by buying the living world episodes to obtain it. I'm now forced to be entirely reliant on the magic appearance of other people to complete a rather basic collection? Why even have requirements like this? What purpose do they serve in this game other than wasting my time, which is a baffling thing to want to do given the lack of a subscription?

 

Lucky that these maps go on rotation weekly then is it not? Check the LFG on the appropriate day. If none is up, put one up yourself and get a few players to join. You are making this out as though there is 0 player available at all time which is simply not true. Quite often it is simply a matte of organization.

 

Quote

Not everything is meant to be easy, I'm fully aware of that, but the difficulty swings so wildly that it gives me whiplash. One hero point might require a champion mob, and another requires eating some rotting bacon, yet both reward the same thing. One POI is accessible at any time, the other requires an event to be completed. It's honestly stupid. It's no different than a slightly fun easter egg hunt for the first roller beetle collection suddenly becoming group content I cannot do alone. I fear the release of EoD will only cause this to get worse. 

 

In general, a large part of you complaint can be solved via 3 suggestions:

1. get better at the game

2. use the LFG more

3. join a guild and ask for help (shouldn't be that ludicrous of an suggestion in a MMORPG)

Edited August 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Mungrul.9358]

33 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

Sure, there's few HPs that could need some difficulty fine tuning...

That bloomin' mushroom in Tangled Depths has been responsible for more deaths than I can count 😄

It's always fun to drop down there after the security quest and watch people get absolutely stomped thanks to the tight quarters and massively spammed, high-damage AoE attacks.

 

Edit: It's the "Newborn Mushrooms" HP in Rata Novus if anyone's scratching their head trying to think which one I'm talking about, and if someone's soloed it, I'd love to see a video!

Edited August 11, 2021 by Mungrul.9358
Clarification

[Tekoneiric.6817]

One of my complaints is locking POI and Hero points behind events. Dragon's Stand is the worse about that. That map has far two many invisible walls (another complaint) that prevent players who can't get on the map meta to unlocking them.  Players can't enter once that map's meta has progressed to a certain point. I personally think that invisible walls are a hack way of blocking players from areas. Same with map edge death zones.

 

I think one way to fix Dragon's Stand is to set it's meta up on specific map instance, something like Dragonstorm; where players use a portal to enter the meta instance, leaving the regular map in a non-meta profile with no map close. It should stay as a scheduled public access event; it just has to be entered via a portal. They could even increase the number of players on the meta version by breaking the lanes into separate instances. Each lane instance could have population caps of 100 to 150 players and defeating the final boss would be shared across the lane instances. The non-meta Dragon's Stand map could be a post death of the Mordremoth map where players are having to mop up confused and unrestrained former dragon minions. Maybe trying to help Sylvari who found themselves released for Mordremoth's control.

 

As for bounties; they need to be featured more on dailies. I personally like bounties more than strike missions. I wish they had continued them into Icebrood Saga and retro-fitted certain bosses on HoT and core maps to be bounties. They could add expansion map dailies in rotation similar to how maps for each Living World maps are. Bounties should have a permanent slot for each PoF map's dailies. The combat hero challenges should fill that permanent slot on HoT maps.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, Tekoneiric.6817 said:

snip

 

 

 

It's possible to map complete Dragon's Stand without the meta.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Mungrul.9358]

2 minutes ago, Tekoneiric.6817 said:

I wish they had continued them into Icebrood Saga and retro-fitted certain bosses on HoT and core maps to be bounties.

I suppose we got the Bloodstone-Crazed beasts in Central Tyria, and Shining Blade bounties. But yeah, a wider retro-fit of the PoF bounty system would be more than welcome.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Tip for OP. Use your Mentor Tag to summon a hoard of players to your side. Works even better with the commander tag.

[Jilora.9524]

Sorry man but no. Alot take breaks. I did for years went back did all that content. You at least have a friend. It's an mmo and if you could solo everything that be dumb too. HP trains. Join the metas. These things all get done in hot and pof. This is what lfg is for. Simple stuff like get the things done when that map is on daily rotation as way more in map. Pop a mentor tag bounty on me and usually players show esp if bounty daily on that map. Gw2 has the bad habit of making us to redo content like ember bay bs jp had to do 4 aurora then hey lets add that bs to the replay all theses episodes. Luckily tons of helpful ppl porting players through it. Everything you complained about gets done but when you doing old content you can't always get everything done the instant you want. You play eod that 1st month you got np beating all content finding help etc. You wait 1 year yeah it's not as easy going back

[Ultramex.1506]

Was doing flameseeker 3 yesterday, one of them require Sand giant kill from Dry Top, there was a tag but not attacking it, all I did was saying "fighting giant now" on map then when its HP reached 80%, the whole map came and killed it. If a difficult content older than HoT HPs still doable with a simple map call, then I suggest use LFG or ask the map and be patience

[Genesis.5169]

OP's suggestion is the exact reason why many people left after HoT launch and during PoF. And is the exact reason why pvp is dead. If you want to play a single player game there are plenty of them to play with better story and you don't have to ruin the game for anyone else and play your way.

 

Catering to the lowest common denominator destroys communities no mmo hand holds like GW2.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Kitty La Boom Boom.4065]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Tip for OP. Use your Mentor Tag to summon a hoard of players to your side. Works even better with the commander tag.

I have seen this in action.  I duo with my friend every day and any time we need help with an event she pops up the mentor tag (apple) and people start showing up immediately.  For legendary bosses just show up at the BB and ask in map if anyone wants to do it, or use LFG.  If enough people are there, you don't even need to join a group.  Just make sure you tag the mob at least once and you're good to go.

[Dante.1763]

8 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

OP's suggestion is the exact reason why many people left after HoT launch and during PoF. And is the exact reason why pvp is dead. If you want to play a single player game there are plenty of them to play with better story and you don't have to ruin the game for anyone else and play your way.

 

Catering to the lowest common denominator destroys communities no mmo hand holds like GW2.

POF is easier than HOT by far, and it was in part i imagine due to the feedback and amount of player who left due to HOT. HOT to this day still gets complaints about the difficulty, and even subsequent LWS never got on the level that HOTs did, probably for good reason.

 

And, coming from someone who does raids, im glad they never went back there. HOT on launch was a bloody mess and i still hate going there during off meta times.

 

PVP is dead because anet never invested anything into it, not because open world is decently easy for a solo player to do.

[mungozen.2379]

Part of the challenge of open world PvE in this game is being able to navigate all the POI, HP, MP, JP (even story) etc solo. It requires a good build (and the flexibility to change that build on the fly), patience to learn the how to overcome the obstacles and drive to keep trying until you are successful. 

Alternatively, you can learn to be good at leading groups using Mentor and/or Comm tags and LFG. 

I really haven’t got a problem with any of the old content, no matter how hard it is. I don’t think it needs to be changed as there are still many ways available to a player to complete said content.  It may not be the way you want to complete it but options exist. 
 

I am on NA servers so this may be different elsewhere but, it is rare that I haven’t been able to pull players together to assist with whatever I need doing. There are many players out there who need the same things you do and advertising a group in LFG has a very high success rate of everyone getting what they need.  At worst, you need to coordinate with other players for the best time to attempt an event or meta, maybe waiting a few days. 
 

I am a pretty casual player, I run sub-optimal builds, I suck at PvP/WvW, but I don’t have a problem with the difficulty of PvE. The developers gave us all the tools to overcome the content and the content has stood defeated for years.  Part of the reason Anet keeps driving us back into old content is to keep that old content alive so players can continue to group up and complete it if they aren’t able to do it solo. 

[codedbykush.2019]

5 hours ago, Kori Jenkins.9017 said:

burning Teleport to Friends to help each other

Have you heard of something called an Asuran Waypoint?

 

What you are trying to do is to play an MMO as a single-player game or a 2 man co-op.

 

Guild Wars 2 is neither.

 

There are guilds, map chat, LFG to call for help, yet you want the devs to create a single player game?

[Zephire.8049]

I think I know of the POIs you speak of and while they're annoying, they can be done solo if you plan ahead. Instead of trying to advance meta chains with the two of you, if you look at the timers page on the wiki (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Event_timers), head to the zone ~30 minutes before the meta starts and you will either be in a map that already completed the chain or can use LFG to move into an instance that did so.

 

Also make note of when the Auric Basin meta starts so you can grab the Tarir points when the city isn't locked down.

 

That said, you can absolutely move the meta chain far enough to unlock the POIs solo so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to duo them. I've done full HoT map completion on ~40 characters, all of it solo—the worst part was the group HPs, which you can join a HP train for or unlock them via WvW notaries.

 

As for bounties, you can either tag up yourself (a mentor tag works just fine for this) and odds are some others will show up to help, especially if it's needed for a collection. If you don't want to do that, LW4 map dailies work on rotation and you can wait until the map with the bounty is the daily and either someone else will be running bounties or there will be enough other people around that you can pop a bounty and others will join in.

 

Outside of raids and fractals, I've done everything solo. Sometimes that means joining/creating a group/waiting for some others to help with something but it's absolutely possible to do older content solo if you plan ahead, are patient, or are willing to take initiative to start a temporary group. The worst POI (imo) is the one in Thunderhead Peak that is locked behind the daily RNG plates but even that one can be acquired if you do the story for ~20 minutes.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Man i wish there was a game mode that can be 100% soloed and bypass the hero point problem. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Testimony_of_Heroics

I might be dumb what i do not know of a poi that is locked behind an event except for finishing dragonstand except those are now accessible with a skyscale.

[mungozen.2379]

13 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Man i wish there was a game mode that can be 100% soloed and bypass the hero point problem. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Testimony_of_Heroics

I might be dumb what i do not know of a poi that is locked behind an event except for finishing dragonstand except those are now accessible with a skyscale.

 

AB has a few 'caves' that can only be accessed after the early pre-event for the meta.  

[Vidit.7108]

I think anyone saying you shouldn't be able to solo the open-world are being a little unreasonable given that the game expects you to do most of the story alone and that GW1 was very solo-able. It's within the spirit of this game that some content be solo-able. Central Tyria for that matter is entirely solo-able and so it's reasonable to me that someone coming off of that is frustrated by the difficulty of HoT and collections requiring Legendary Bosses or the Bounty Champs.
The OP is not asking for explicitly group content be made solo. For that matter, many of the difficult hearts in HoT can be solo'd it's just not immediately obvious how. 

There are a few HPs that the OP and his friend are just out of luck on, like the mushroom in Tangled Depths under Rata Novus. Then there are others like the Golem in Verdant Brink can be solo'd but you really have to know your skills and traits well to have a configuration that can kill it without it killing you first. It is a little annoying that most of the maps can be done on your own but the scaling down HP events do isn't enough in some cases.
For anyone just saying "tag up", I've sometimes waited hours for anyone to wander over to tag even after calling it out in map. Other times it can work fast but it's not at all consistent.

 

At least now HoT is easier than it was at launch when all the mobs were stronger and 5 people could show up and still wipe trying to do open-world content. 

[Tekoneiric.6817]

5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

 

 

It's possible to map complete Dragon's Stand without the meta.

 

Yes, I figured out how to do that years ago; well before mounts. Despite the invisible walls; there are loads of gaps around it. They added loads of invisible walls to the map shortly after mounts were released. It largely prevents players going outside of the lanes. They need to eliminate those invisible walls because it adds nothing to the game play, increases the frustration to players and adds to the useless polygons which probably increases the lag.

 

I just dislike invisible walls and map edge kill zones in general. They are a non-creative hack to prevent players from accessing areas. I've discussed this topic a few times before. It's to easy for players to stumble into map edge kill zones. My characters have met their demise more than a few times when I accidentally bumped a kill zone here and there. In Desert Highlands by the icy area there are kill zones that overlap areas where creatures roam. Narrow low level fear zones would be a much better; as if to say "Here Be Dragons". Mainly to prevent casual intrusions but still allow map explorers to access hidden areas with decent builds.

 

Dry Top has ridiculous invisible walls placed here and there for no reason other than to prevent players from accessing to that one canyon which is a interesting place to look around for new players. Same with Silverwastes and blocking access to the Sealed Cavern. I think both places are ripe for them to update the maps with new events.

 

 

[Tekoneiric.6817]

6 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I suppose we got the Bloodstone-Crazed beasts in Central Tyria, and Shining Blade bounties. But yeah, a wider retro-fit of the PoF bounty system would be more than welcome.

 

I would love to see Frostgorge Sound updated to include bounties. Some existing events could be converted to bounties such as the champion icebrood quaggan. It's a wide open map that could host a lot more content.