PvE - mobs should use boons more often

[Pooh.6897]

Title says it all, really. Right now enemies rarely use boons. It would make fighting a lot more engaging as classes that have access to boon rip/corrupt would have more to work with. Yes, it could make fights harder for classes that dont have boon removal, but that mostly feels like a balancing issue and not specifically tied to enemies using boons. Just to clarify: I’m not talking about 25 stacks of might on a goat. Just one or two boons that fit the type of enemy you’re fighting. Swiftness for centaurs, stability for rock-enemies, perhaps quickness for tentacle-based monsters. Just having boons integrated into the design of certain enemies would be really cool, like how the mordrem menders (could) apply regen.

[Quench.7091]

I agree, as long as they aren't like the dredge in WvW. Those guys can have permanent protection in an AoE field, even if you interrupt them after they bang their gong once. Takes forever to kill them without some boon strip and are the most worthy mercenary faction in the Eternal Battleground map, as they bolster nearby camp guards.

 

I would like to see an enemy that boons themselves and other around them if you fail to CC them during a long cast time, unlike those dredge. That way non-boon strip classes have an avenue for countering them, while also making CC abilities more important for individual players.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Quench.7091

[The Boz.2038]

Based on how Anet likes to design around their own design, I expect non-strippable unique effects that can be removed by performing a glide above the target's head.

[Beleron.9347]

43 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Based on how Anet likes to design around their own design, I expect non-strippable unique effects that can be removed by performing a glide above the target's head.

Except on Thursdays, when you would have to dodge around them three times anti-clockwise, before emoting "/you ran from skritt" (which would be unlocked with a 61 piece collection that required the completion of every jumping puzzle in the game).

 

I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Based on how Anet likes to design around their own design, I expect non-strippable unique effects that can be removed by performing a glide above the target's head.

53 minutes ago, Beleron.9347 said:

Except on Thursdays, when you would have to dodge around them three times anti-clockwise, before emoting "/you ran from skritt" (which would be unlocked with a 61 piece collection that required the completion of every jumping puzzle in the game).

 

I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

Then release a LW mastery that automatically removes all boons from enemies so players don't actually have to engage with and learn the mechanic... 

 

But yes, mobs actually interacting with the game's systems more is something I've been asking for for years. Especially with how powercrept players are at this point, it could even help to at least slightly counter that (although core would need much more than that to be interesting content again).

Edited August 12, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Dante.1763]

34 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Then release a LW mastery that automatically removes all boons from enemies so players don't actually have to engage with and learn the mechanic... 

 

But yes, mobs actually interacting with the game's systems more is something I've been asking for for years. Especially with how powercrept players are at this point, it could even help to at least slightly counter that (although core would need much more than that to be interesting content again).

To be fair, not everyone has boon strip, and id rather not be required to group in open world just to have a decent experience with things that arent events.

 

 

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

To be fair, not everyone has boon strip, and id rather not be required to group in open world just to have a decent experience with things that arent events.

 

 

Retaliation was the only boon you pretty much had to remove in PvE and that doesn't exist anymore. 

Boons existing on enemies doesn't mean it has to be played around with boon strip, good game design can allow for a variety of counters. 

 Some mobs could get Might and Quickness at low HP in form of an enrage, encouraging you to save burst for once they get there, other's might receive small breakbars, gaining defensive boons should you not interrupt them, etc. 

 

There are sheer countless ways to utilise existing game mechanics, such as boons and breakbars, to make mobs more interesting and enrich gameplay by making them feel more unique with different strategies to engage and play around them. 

Boonstrip, be it from things like Sigil of Nullification or Absorption, or via profession features, simply would be a shortcut/non-standard work around, or enable further strategies, such as purposefully "failing" breakbars to then trigger extra damage on skills such as Break Enchantments, or to benefit from Corrupts on something like Devouring Darkness. 

 

It imo would make the general PvE experience a lot more dynamic, unless designed in a terrible way of just slapping random boons on everything with Boon strip as only counter ofc.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Asum.4960

[kharmin.7683]

Anet can't even get the AI right with pets.  You honestly expect them to be able to enforce boons on enemies in PvE that would actually work?

[Noodle Ant.1605]

adding boons is not worthwhile because its innately unbalanced 

 

adding rather insignificant boons such as regen, swiftness or a single stack of might does nothing when majority dont care, cant care and will never care, whilst a minority can get their dmg axed by 9-47% (by a boon that doesnt even have to be protection???)

 

adding more significant boons such as protection/resolution, 25 might + quickness, retaliation etc. does the opposite, trolling the majority of the playerbase because boon control is simply not equal among classes

 

having boons appear minimally or occasionally seems to the best method available, as it means it people wont be internally screaming all the time due to profession/build limitations

[Mungrul.9358]

It is rather weird to have so many traits geared around stealing/ripping boons, especially on an elite spec like Spellbreaker, when the vast majority of enemies you fight in the open world don't even use them in the first place.

[kharmin.7683]

56 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

It is rather weird to have so many traits geared around stealing/ripping boons, especially on an elite spec like Spellbreaker, when the vast majority of enemies you fight in the open world don't even use them in the first place.

I believe that classes like SpellBreaker were designed with PvP in mind or Raids, where such mechanics might be more important since they came out about around the same time.  I find most of the eSpecs released with HoT aren't properly "balanced" for open world play. 

[Mungrul.9358]

For sure, I get that same feeling too, but it's just a bit bizarre that they don't use the open world to train you how to use your profession's mechanics, especially after GW1 where PvE was seen as training for PvP.

But then, the AI was a LOT smarter in GW1 too, and all mobs used the same skills as the players (with a few exceptions for more challenging content).

[WindBlade.8749]

* Cry in elementalist that have 0 boon removal in all their trait/specs/skills *

So how about no.

[DaFishBob.6518]

Well there is a boon that literally every mob in PvE can have that won't affect difficulty fighting as a character without boon removal: vigor. Then it can be corrupted into a condition that's only slightly more effective: bleeding.

[Doggie.3184]

The lack of boons makes Revenant feel even more bare bones in utilities. Mallyx often feels like he only has 1 skill.

Then there's Thief Sword/Dagger which just seems silly to use in PvE.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

They should have boons

 

I remember being really set back when I tried to play a boon removal build in PvE. I set it up, ventured out and quickly realized my build was worthless. Even high level mobs didn’t have boons.  I sadly went back to my previous build and mentally put the boon stripping skills in the trash. 

[Cuks.8241]

Yes please. It would be nice for some professions/specs. Doesn't mean these should be mandatory to remove, just a small bonus if you do it and to enable skills that have additional effects on boon strip.

[Infusion.7149]

Adding boons after scourge was buffed to the sky is questionable. If scourge was still a 28K spec maybe, but it's already on par with condi berserker/ condi soulbeast/ hybrid weaver/condi holo /etc. None of those have boon rips and you'd need to run a sigil or something if you want boon rip on them.

Boon rip is most valued in fractals currently. Most notably in fights such as molten boss or siren's reef where protection is spammed the boon rip is invaluable even when No Pain No Gain or Vengeance isn't active.

One of my first topics on this version of the forum actually  https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/32582-pve-enemies-with-pve-boons-and-scourges/?tab=comments#comment-533265

Edit: also it would be a net nerf to any power chrono running Vicious Expression as you would need to boon rip before using any large damage skills ; the same goes for power reaper due to Spiteful Talisman

Edited August 12, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Rogue.8235]

I'm always of the mindset that open world PvE should always engage every system the player has access to.

We have acess to condition removal, stun breaks, boon removal and corruption, crowd control effects, etc.

 

If the enemies of open world don't have abilities that engage with these combat mechanics, then gameplay devolves to "do moar damg"  It always seems wasteful to create combat mechancis that are never used.  

[mungozen.2379]

2 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

I'm always of the mindset that open world PvE should always engage every system the player has access to.

We have acess to condition removal, stun breaks, boon removal and corruption, crowd control effects, etc.

 

If the enemies of open world don't have abilities that engage with these combat mechanics, then gameplay devolves to "do moar damg"  It always seems wasteful to create combat mechancis that are never used.  

this

 

in addition, I think if players were forced into situations where they need to use different skills (like CC on break bars) they will be more capable of changing game modes and being successful. 

[Justine.6351]

21 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

I'm always of the mindset that open world PvE should always engage every system the player has access to.

We have acess to condition removal, stun breaks, boon removal and corruption, crowd control effects, etc.

 

If the enemies of open world don't have abilities that engage with these combat mechanics, then gameplay devolves to "do moar damg"  It always seems wasteful to create combat mechancis that are never used.  

 Aka guild wars 1 😂

 

People saying it would be unbalanced for classes without boon removal don't seem to understand that the OP's premise was to replicate certain mob's characteristics with relevant boons. Behind a cast time if needed so classes without boon removal could still counter it.

 

If a mob is naturally tanky you would remove x amount of toughness and give it protection behind a skill that can be interrupted.

If a mob naturally has scary damage you would trim it and give it the might boon behind a skill they cast that can be interrupted.