Question About JP Checkpoints

[Kraggy.4169]

So there are many JPs now with this mechanic and as far as I know all have the 'feature' that if you exit the area you lose progress, which is annoying but worse you can't even log out without being kicked back to the start. 😞

 

So my question is this: If ANet kick you out of a zone instance due to lack of players do they also punish you by taking your checkpoints away if you voluntarily change instances or are forcibly kicked to one?

 

And yes, this is an issue, not all of use are confident in JPs (which is why I never do them except on a Mesmer), and some like Ember Bay are truly punishing due to long jumps and some frankly dire world-building on some of the 'horns' where it's so easy to slide off when visually there's no reason to think there's a slop there are all!

Edited August 12, 2021 by Kraggy.4169

[DoomNexus.5324]

I also noticed this recently when I had to suddenly leave the game while doing the Ember Bay jp.
I am very confident in doing JPs so it wasn't an issue in regards to completing it. However since you are not able to open the final chest without all checkpoints I think this is a general problem that potentially affects everyone doing JPs regardless of personal skill or whatever.
The game could always crash or you could always have a dc or connection issues so I'd also appreciate the checkpoint stuff carrying over to different instances and keeping it when logged out.

[Kraggy.4169]

Indeed, there are many reasons why you may get logged out .. and since I've been getting at least one crash a week with the GW2 client for the last 2 months I can never be sure when the next one occurs.

 

I can reluctantly accept losing the 'perks' the CPs give, as in the Ember Bay one, but losing entire progress due to something outside my control I consider player-hostile design, there's no need for ANet to be so Draconian on ANY content that's required for some non-trivial achievement rewards .. and the Ember Bay JP being deliberately included in the 'Replay' meta simply adds insult to injury.

 

At lease Sirens Landing wasn't gutted completely by the addition of the 'no fly' zone.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Kraggy.4169

[Khisanth.2948]

Those are inconsistent. It seems like the consequence of one dev copying another dev's homework without understanding what the answers actually mean. JPs with some sort of checkpoint mechanic has existed since launch but the earlier ones don't have these issues.

[Jilora.9524]

You mean the move to a more populated map thing. Yeah if you take that you are in a new map so bye bye checkpoints but if you say no you stay and that map doesn't close right away. I can't remember ever even getting a this map will close in 2h type thing just like when we get a new build you can chose to dl it or get to stay in that map for 2h before you are forced out. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You can log out in the Jumping Puzzle in Dry Top without losing progress; thus, it is inconsistent. 

[Kraggy.4169]

20 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

You mean the move to a more populated map thing. Yeah if you take that you are in a new map so bye bye checkpoints but if you say no you stay and that map doesn't close right away. I can't remember ever even getting a this map will close in 2h type thing just like when we get a new build you can chose to dl it or get to stay in that map for 2h before you are forced out. 

It's a one hour warning and for me on EU I get them in many zones these day often within 15 mins or so zoning in, seems to me player numbers are spiking as 'trains' arrive for a single event then leave.

 

In fact, while camping the 3-event chain in Desert Highlands for the Griffon drop I had it happen three times, twice before the second stage spawned.  Dreadful mechanic when progress requires all three events to trigger on the same map to get the drop!

 

I accept one hour+ s/b enough to do a JP but that's not the point, it's the fact all progress is lost due to something you have no control over .. and as other have noted, the fact that some check-pointed JPs don't suffer this BS then clearly there's no technical reason for it, simply obnoxious games design.

 

For me the only mitigation is that I'm trying to do it on a second account, on my main one I did with, along with a great many others with help from those wonderful 'pink' commanders. 😉

Edited August 13, 2021 by Kraggy.4169

[ReaverKane.7598]

Well, in Chalice of Tears, you can actually lose progress due to the checkpoints triggering a loading screen. Happened to me at my first try for the return achievement.

I'm guessing that has to do with how the engine loads this and how it works in terms of variables.
So, when loading the game probably resets all variables for the map, and then loads up the database stuff and replaces what's needed. Checkpoints are probably not one of the things in permanent storage (aka the database), and as such they get reset when the game loads things into memory.
There are probably algorithms already in place to pass on some required information that isn't in the database, but is still required to have some sort of permanence, onto the new loaded instance, but what's likely is that, because checkpoints are so niche and mostly used only on S3 maps (there's also the one on the Silverwastes), whoever engineered it didn't think to add it as one of the variables to be passed on to new instances of a map, and as such its a bit messy.

[mythical.6315]

Out of the 57(?) jumping puzzles in the game, I recall 7 of them having some form of a checkpoint system with only 3 of those actually requiring checkpoints for completion credit. As for logging out or changing instances, it really only matters for those three as they just serve as a safety net for the others. 
 

I only brought up the above because I disagreed about the issue being framed with the usage of “many”. That said, I do not see any reason why the checkpoints could not exist as a buff that resets with the daily. 

[Khisanth.2948]

30 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Out of the 57(?) jumping puzzles in the game, I recall 7 of them having some form of a checkpoint system with only 3 of those actually requiring checkpoints for completion credit. As for logging out or changing instances, it really only matters for those three as they just serve as a safety net for the others. 
 

I only brought up the above because I disagreed about the issue being framed with the usage of “many”. That said, I do not see any reason why the checkpoints could not exist as a buff that resets with the daily. 

resetting with the daily is a completely pointless constraint

[mythical.6315]

7 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

resetting with the daily is a completely pointless constraint

The end chest is daily so why shouldn’t the checkpoints be as well?

 

Another alternative to the one I suggested, in order not not hinder those doing it right before reset, would be to use the same stack buff as the one in SW.  You can log out without any issues as well as use waypoints on the map. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Khisanth.2948]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

The end chest is daily so why shouldn’t the checkpoints be as well?

 

Another alternative to the one I suggested, in order not not hinder those doing it right before reset, would be to use the same stack buff as the one in SW.  You can log out without any issues as well as use waypoints on the map. 

all that accomplish is to completely screw over anyone who didn't check how close they were to reset before starting, imagine the joy of someone who finished Chalice of Tears 1 second after daily reset ...

 

even if they did check but unless they are absolutely certain they can finish in the time remaining they now have to make wait until after reset to begin

 

resetting with the daily is almost as bad as how they are now and maybe even worse

[mythical.6315]

4 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

all that accomplish is to completely screw over anyone who didn't check how close they were to reset before starting, imagine the joy of someone who finished Chalice of Tears 1 second after daily reset ...

 

even if they did check but unless they are absolutely certain they can finish in the time remaining they now have to make wait until after reset to begin

 

resetting with the daily is almost as bad as how they are now and maybe even worse

It’s a downside to that particular option which I had already stated in my post which you had quoted. Did you perchance have the opportunity to read the rest such as my other suggestion?

Edited August 14, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Kraggy.4169]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:40 AM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

You can log out in the Jumping Puzzle in Dry Top without losing progress; thus, it is inconsistent. 

Totally, that one has occurred to me when looking into this.

 

 

[Kraggy.4169]

Well I just discovered it gets worse in Ember Bay, this is clearly deliberately part of the design .. if you reach CP1 and logout then you lose it, fine, I was prepared for that, but ...

 

... when you log back in YOU CAN'T GET IT AGAIN!

 

Yes, that's right when I logged back in I'd lost the CP but when I backed off the horn and went back to the CP I didn't get i, no icon showing progress.  So the time if took fighting through the lava and mob BS to reach CP1 was wasted.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Kraggy.4169

[Jilora.9524]

4 minutes ago, Kraggy.4169 said:

Well I just discovered it gets worse in Ember Bay, this is clearly deliberately part of the design .. if you reach CP1 and logout then you lose it, fine, I was prepared for that, but ...

 

... when you log back in YOU CAN'T GET IT AGAIN!

 

Yes, that's right when I logged back in I'd lost the CP but when I backed off the horn and went back to the CP I didn't get i, no icon showing progress.  So the time if took fighting through the lava and mob BS to reach CP1 was wasted.

Like why would you get to cp1 and log off anyway. At this point I feel like you are intentionally trying to aggravate yourself

[Kraggy.4169]

6 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Like why would you get to cp1 and log off anyway. At this point I feel like you are intentionally trying to aggravate yourself

I took my character through the opening section yesterday  to get to CP1 .. you know the bit where death is highly probable due to the often terrible world building where you can slide off somewhere that looks perfectly fine ..  to reduce the amount of time I'd need to do it, seemed perfectly sensible to me.

 

Think what you like, fact is this JP is either terribly built or deliberately janky to cause the maximum aggravation and mechanics like requiring all CPs to get the achievement simply add to it.

[Jilora.9524]

1 minute ago, Kraggy.4169 said:

I took my character through the opening section yesterday  to get to CP1 .. you know the bit where death is highly probable due to the often terrible world building where you can slide off somewhere that looks perfectly fine ..  to reduce the amount of time I'd need to do it, seemed perfectly sensible to me.

 

Think what you like, fact is this JP is either terribly built or deliberately janky to cause the maximum aggravation and mechanics like requiring all CPs to get the achievement simply add to it.

Oh ya it's terrible. I can't do it. Most jumping puzzle's i tab to a video watch that guy run 10 feet tab in and I run 10 feet repeat. You can't do that with ember so on that week if came back there were dozens of mez porting it. I joined one he wasn;'t so good and died or downed multiple times and on cp 2 I took his portal and got a loading screen so I lost cps. The other 10 players were fine so not like he going to go back just for me so I had to leave and find another. THe other dude was great took like 8m I tipped him 5g cuz I was just glad to be done with it. 

I just don't get why you would try a loophole like let me get to cp1 knowing it will screw you over after you logged off. I'm sure if you went to another map came back you would be fine. Sure it's annoying but better cp1 then cp4 or something. If you bad at jp like me just eagle eye lfg and hope mez might still be doing it and tip him for saving you the trouble. Up to you man

[Thon.3780]

Honestly JP with a bit difficulty will make ppl enjoy. But not this one

it suit for hard core player. And A-Net put it in return to ember bay achievement. That make regular player , new player or even comeback player give up the event to get legendary item

 

if no guide or YouTube ,  no one will find the way to top. And available profession is Mesmer that can save and retry . What about others …. 
 

i Start with check points 1 to 2 without looking guid and YouTube . And I use 2 hours each for 2 day  and still don’t reach check points 2. 
so.. it change from enjoy searching way to be Stress . Then I stop play game. I should enjoy game because it is make me fun. It is work for A NET but not for their customers to make stress.

 

i back to see YouTube and guide. And OMG … Mesmer need allot of save point. The. What about other profession? Do I have to start with Mesmer in order to complete this achievement.?

If it is exclusive achievement for players who spend effort , that is fine . You can go ahead and climb up over my head.
Coz I am not in that category. 
i Play for fun after work and enjoy ANET event return to xxxx . Bot now it is over. 
i dare say that I cannot complete them.

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

1 hour ago, Thon.3780 said:

Honestly JP with a bit difficulty will make ppl enjoy. But not this one

it suit for hard core player. And A-Net put it in return to ember bay achievement. That make regular player , new player or even comeback player give up the event to get legendary item

 

if no guide or YouTube ,  no one will find the way to top. And available profession is Mesmer that can save and retry . What about others …. 
 

i Start with check points 1 to 2 without looking guid and YouTube . And I use 2 hours each for 2 day  and still don’t reach check points 2. 
so.. it change from enjoy searching way to be Stress . Then I stop play game. I should enjoy game because it is make me fun. It is work for A NET but not for their customers to make stress.

 

i back to see YouTube and guide. And OMG … Mesmer need allot of save point. The. What about other profession? Do I have to start with Mesmer in order to complete this achievement.?

If it is exclusive achievement for players who spend effort , that is fine . You can go ahead and climb up over my head.
Coz I am not in that category. 
i Play for fun after work and enjoy ANET event return to xxxx . Bot now it is over. 
i dare say that I cannot complete them.

 

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prototype_Position_Rewinder is better than portal so mesmer is not really important although that does require owning PoF and that particular LS4 episode

[costepj.5120]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:41 PM, Kraggy.4169 said:

Well I just discovered it gets worse in Ember Bay, this is clearly deliberately part of the design .. if you reach CP1 and logout then you lose it, fine, I was prepared for that, but ...

 

... when you log back in YOU CAN'T GET IT AGAIN!

 

Yes, that's right when I logged back in I'd lost the CP but when I backed off the horn and went back to the CP I didn't get i, no icon showing progress.  So the time if took fighting through the lava and mob BS to reach CP1 was wasted.

Did you mean Checkpoint 1 or the first checkpoint? A little confusingly, the first checkpoint is actually Checkpoint Start.

Checkpoint Start -> Checkpoint 1 -> Checkpoint 2 -> Checkpoint 3 -> Checkpoint 4 -> End.