Elite Speculation possible lore [discussion]

[EdwinLi.1284]

So with the reveal of the 2 new elite specs, what possible lore do you think these Elite Specializations may have been bron from?

For me my best guesses.....

Harbinger - This elite spec may have been created as the result of left over Am Fah Alchemy which we know back in GW1 had necromancy involved with creating their elixirs in hopes of weaponizing and spreading the Plague. That Am Fah knowledge may have resulted into creating the Blight Elixirs the Harbinger's use now.

Willbender - This one is giving me a bit of feeling of Pre-Evil Shiro Tagachi. The role/job of the WIllbender is even the same being focused on defending the Canthan Throne/Emperor. This Elite Spec may also provide more Shiro Tagachi lore focusing on his pre-evil skills and maybe a bit of who he once was before becoming evil.

 

Virtuoso - I don't have much of a guess for this elite spec currently. My best guess is that it maybe the creation of the Ministry of Purity or Canthan Nobility.

Edited August 12, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Harak.8397]

Elite specs don't have to be relevant to the setting of the expansion they are being released with. Case in point: HoT
Actually, I'd prefer if they didn't. Less limiting on creativity.

[ugrakarma.9416]

HoT Elites Specs was criticized cuz it was seems throwed up at random without much lore connection, in POF they tried fix this, connecting Elite Specs with the new region(Elona). Its just seems they will continue this pattern on Cantha. The New Specs is just "regional professions" learned at Cantha.

Edited August 12, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Harak.8397]

I know this. My issue with it is that every Elite spec since PoF save for Renegade has been connected with human Lore. Freeing the process from that anchor would have most likely opened options they did not consider due to the setting of the upcoming expansion. It's clear that's not going to happen and I think it's too bad.

[Legion.4198]

I could see the Virtuoso evolving due the needs for entertainment of Canthan Nobles, particularly of those who fancy war and martial stuff, who, with at least a century of peace in an united, if repressive, Cantha, became bored state bureaucrats with no enemies to fight anymore and any true martial tradition relegated to ceremony and duels.

[Rognik.2579]

I mean, just going off the name, I think "virtuoso" is a term derived from musical ability. Maybe this specialization was named because they look like a conductor or musician as they wave their blades around. Then again, I just like the idea that mesmers are the entertainers of Tyria, actors and the like.

 

Harbinger sounds like it came form "harbinger of death", and if they want to inflict themselves with conditions to make their skills stronger, it does kind of fit. Although, they seem more like a leper, running around "unclean" and spreading the infection. I'm cuious what their utility skills might be; I'm guessing alchemy-based.

 

Willbender is the oddest one for me. I really couldn't even guess what inspired this name.

[draxynnic.3719]

I don't think it's likely that Willbender is based on "Shiro before he went bad". Shiro was pretty explicitly an assassin in terms of profession, albeit a very good one, and in Factions he added corrupted Envoy abilities to his powerset. I don't think there was any period where he would have had guardian-like abilities.

 

What is possible, though, is that some Emperor or Empress wanted a bodyguard with similar quick-response capabilities.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't think it's likely that Willbender is based on "Shiro before he went bad". Shiro was pretty explicitly an assassin in terms of profession, albeit a very good one, and in Factions he added corrupted Envoy abilities to his powerset. I don't think there was any period where he would have had guardian-like abilities.

 

What is possible, though, is that some Emperor or Empress wanted a bodyguard with similar quick-response capabilities.

 

It reminds me of ritualists binding spirits to their will. Which is tangentially related to guardian?

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

13 hours ago, Harak.8397 said:

I know this. My issue with it is that every Elite spec since PoF save for Renegade has been connected with human Lore.

 

"Every elite spec except half of them so far". Also Herald is connected to Glint, which being crystal dragon known for being a prophet with a whole DWARVEN brotherhood at her side is hardly "human lore" beyond being "gw1 lore".

[Harak.8397]

Herald is a HoT Elite Spec, thank you for proving my point

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

9 minutes ago, Harak.8397 said:

Herald is a HoT Elite Spec, thank you for proving my point

 

proving what point again?

 

ok after re-reading whole thing couple more times again to be sure I did notice that I went with assumption that you mean every espec of revenant except renegade. I see now you have most likely meant especs for all the classes not just rev here.

 

So as far as the especs already in-game goes it's still "all of them except half, and that one" but it's thanks to "since pof" not "except renegade" as I previously presumed.

 

Now here is a thing with lore ties, - with all the "elonian people learned to do X and Y" there is obviously to be some tie to human lore, just on the sake of elonians being mostly humans, but once we look past that part I don't really get striked but much of "human-centric" backgrounds for most of them? spellbreakers being the biggest offenders there, being basically descendants of sunspears,  followed by firebrands, since tome skills outright refer stories of elona domains, but others tends to not be so direct. Only link for them being "X class in the dessert has learnt to do this desserty thing" Mirage is about illusions that happens at dessert as far as popular knowledge goes, scourges are sand necromancers, deadeyes could fit hot just as good as they fit pof, holosmith also seems not really bound to any human lore, can't speak much on ele pof spec.

 

and as far as they went with announcing eod especs the trend keeps continue - the only big link to "human lore" I can see in virtuoso, harbinger, is that they happen to be "fitting to cantha" which is an independent human empire, you could make argument for "blight" refering to canthan story, but "blight" in factions was caused by rogue envoy, so I am not exactly sure how explainable it would be for the same blight to be something alchemists could synthetise in potions 250 years after said envoy got removed. Guardians here, being lore linked to canthan throne seems to be strong lore link that I can agree, but it would still be far from "everything except renegade"

[Harak.8397]

I mean, you could have simply wrote: "I misread, sorry." 😉

Here's your Human link to Holosmith. CAREFULLY READ the dialogue
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Baraz_Sharifi
 

...and for scourge
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Akesi_Xuni

 

Weaver is a little more twisted but still there
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Folarin_Oyekan

 

We've already established Spellbreaker and Firebrand as human centric. That leaves Renegade, Deadeye, Soulbeast and Mirage.  I have to admit I wasn't exactly right either. Here's hoping at least half the EoD E-specs are also free of racial ties.

Tell you what, let's wait until all the EoD specs are announced, then we can count how many, from HoT to EoD, are directly related to humans and discuss if it's a fair ratio in a game with 5 playable races.

Until, then have fun in game!

[ugrakarma.9416]

21 hours ago, Legion.4198 said:

I could see the Virtuoso evolving due the needs for entertainment of Canthan Nobles, particularly of those who fancy war and martial stuff, who, with at least a century of peace in an united, if repressive, Cantha, became bored state bureaucrats with no enemies to fight anymore and any true martial tradition relegated to ceremony and duels.

 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

1 hour ago, Harak.8397 said:

I mean, you could have simply wrote: "I misread, sorry." 😉

Tha would "only" cut out one paragraph and a verse from the wall of text 😉

 

1 hour ago, Harak.8397 said:

Here's your Human link to Holosmith. CAREFULLY READ the dialogue
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Baraz_Sharifi
 

...and for scourge
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Akesi_Xuni

 

Weaver is a little more twisted but still there
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Folarin_Oyekan

 

We've already established Spellbreaker and Firebrand as human centric. That leaves Renegade, Deadeye, Soulbeast and Mirage.  I have to admit I wasn't exactly right either. Here's hoping at least half the EoD E-specs are also free of racial ties.

 

Fair points I was unaware of those lore bits for those three.

 

1 hour ago, Harak.8397 said:

Tell you what, let's wait until all the EoD specs are announced, then we can count how many, from HoT to EoD, are directly related to humans and discuss if it's a fair ratio in a game with 5 playable races.

Until, then have fun in game!

 

Have fun too 🙂

[Teletric.3821]

2 hours ago, Harak.8397 said:

We've already established Spellbreaker and Firebrand as human centric. That leaves Renegade, Deadeye, Soulbeast and Mirage.  I have to admit I wasn't exactly right either. Here's hoping at least half the EoD E-specs are also free of racial ties.

Tell you what, let's wait until all the EoD specs are announced, then we can count how many, from HoT to EoD, are directly related to humans and discuss if it's a fair ratio in a game with 5 playable races.

Until, then have fun in game!

The idea of elite specs seems to be that they're tied to the region and your player basically learns them because the knowledge about them exists in that region specifically. If you go into a region that's predominantly human, then you'd expect that they'd be based mainly on human lore (with a few exceptions) as was the case in Path of Fire – and that's likely going to be the case in End of Dragons. I don't see how that's a problem, honestly – I'm just grateful that it makes sense for all races to be able to learn the elite specs we currently have.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Teletric.3821
wording

[Harak.8397]

It's not a PROBLEM problem.  Just some spices and flavor that goes missing for 4 of the 5 races. That's why I originally said I'd prefer them to stand on their own lorewise as Trejgon pointed out in the case of Mirage and a few others.