Revenant Elite Spec: Oni Samurai

[Dadnir.5038]

The mask could simply represent a revenant taking on the persona of the legend he chanel. There is no point in reading farther than that into this symbol that we have yet to know to which profession it will belong.

[Luthan.5236]

I wish they would have allowed Rytlock to summone Gwen (the "Goremonger") as next revenant elite spec lol. But oni themed stiff ... seems to fit nicely with Cantha.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

The echo of Shiro we channel doesn't seem to be Shiro the Envoy, but Shiro when he died the first time, the one that caused the Jade Wind.

That specific echo wouldn't have any memories of Togo.

Pretty sure the echo we channel is the whole Shiro. The abilities associated with the legend are mostly those he uses in GW1.

 

Still, I don't think it should be Togo for a bunch of other reasons. Not worth arguing over at this point, though, since ArenaNet has probably already decided, but almost anything would be better than Togo.

[Raknar.4735]

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Pretty sure the echo we channel is the whole Shiro. The abilities associated with the legend are mostly those he uses in GW1.

 

Still, I don't think it should be Togo for a bunch of other reasons. Not worth arguing over at this point, though, since ArenaNet has probably already decided, but almost anything would be better than Togo.

 

The abilities associated with the legend are mostly based on jade and the jade wind (corrupted Dwayna magic). Of course he'll still retain his abilities as an assassin, which he obviously uses in GW1. He's still an assassin, even as an envoy.

There are no skills that are closely related with him being an envoy or the miasma, so I'm pretty sure revenants just channel the Jade Wind echo of Shiro, not the returned envoy/miasma/affliction one.

 

But yeah, I agree about how it shouldn't be Togo.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

The abilities associated with the legend are mostly based on jade and the jade wind (corrupted Dwayna magic). Of course he'll still retain his abilities as an assassin, which he obviously uses in GW1. He's still an assassin, even as an envoy.

There are no skills that are closely related with him being an envoy or the miasma, so I'm pretty sure revenants just channel the Jade Wind echo of Shiro, not the returned envoy/miasma/affliction one.

 

But yeah, I agree about how it shouldn't be Togo.

 

When players fight Shiro in Gw1 he already had absorved the magic, still Impossible odds and risposting shadows, battle scars are in fact Shiro skills, but rev have the Jade wind cursed version has players fight him in the last canthan mission.

 

Just because they are the cursed versions of the skills doenst mean they arent Shiro skills....

Edited August 16, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Raknar.4735]

40 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

When players fight Shiro in Gw1 he already had absorved the magic, still Impossible odds and risposting shadows, battle scars are in fact Shiro skills, but rev have the Jade wind cursed version has players fight him in the last canthan mission.

 

Just because they are the cursed versions of the skills doenst mean they arent Shiro skills....

 

Impossible odds, riposting shadows and battle scars are Shiro's own battle abilities. Obviously he uses them, as they're his fighting style.

The Jade Wind is corrupted Dwayna magic, he doesn't use that in the last canthan mission, nor in the Gate of Madness. He was able to cause the Jade Wind because he stole that magic from the Emperor.

Also, the Jade Wind isn't one of his skills, it is the name of the event that occurred when Shiro died.

 

And what are "cursed versions of the skills"? Not sure what you mean by that. Also I'm not sure why you're saying Revs have a "cursed version" of the Jade Wind.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Aeolus.3615]

25 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

Impossible odds, riposting shadows and battle scars are Shiro's own battle abilities. Obviously he uses them, as they're his fighting style.

The Jade Wind is corrupted Dwayna magic, he doesn't use that in the last canthan mission, nor in the Gate of Madness. He was able to cause the Jade Wind because he stole that magic from the Emperor.

Also, the Jade Wind isn't one of his skills, it is the name of the event that occurred when Shiro died.

 

And what are "cursed versions of the skills"? Not sure what you mean by that. Also I'm not sure why you're saying Revs have a "cursed version" of the Jade Wind.

 

You are right, just check a video of the last canthan mission.

I think ic now ur point, jade cursed energy was released upon shiro death and not something he would use for combat, altough he was into forbiden magic way before the jade wind festival.

Plus i think and assume we have the  corrupted/cursed shiro version since he released the curse uppons his death corrupting is soul as well.

 

 

But ur right in one thing, could make a bit more sense having the bodyguard version skills (non cursed) wich i think its what ur saying, wich means we should have the shiro bodyguard skills rather this variant.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[draxynnic.3719]

22 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

Impossible odds, riposting shadows and battle scars are Shiro's own battle abilities. Obviously he uses them, as they're his fighting style.

The Jade Wind is corrupted Dwayna magic, he doesn't use that in the last canthan mission, nor in the Gate of Madness. He was able to cause the Jade Wind because he stole that magic from the Emperor.

Also, the Jade Wind isn't one of his skills, it is the name of the event that occurred when Shiro died.

 

And what are "cursed versions of the skills"? Not sure what you mean by that. Also I'm not sure why you're saying Revs have a "cursed version" of the Jade Wind.

He tries to release a Jade Wind after being mortally wounded in the Imperial Sanctum mission, but this time the Oracle was ready for it and he and a bunch of acolytes come in and seal him inside a shield so that only he gets turned to jade.

[Raknar.4735]

36 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

He tries to release a Jade Wind after being mortally wounded in the Imperial Sanctum mission, but this time the Oracle was ready for it and he and a bunch of acolytes come in and seal him inside a shield so that only he gets turned to jade.

 

That's your interpretation of the final cutscene. To me it just looks like that Suun's adepts themselves turn him into jade to seal his mortal body.

If you have a source that states it's his own power that gets repelled, I'd be happy to see it. I have looked for it, but personally couldn't find it.

[draxynnic.3719]

11 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

That's your interpretation of the final cutscene. To me it just looks like that Suun's adepts themselves turn him into jade to seal his mortal body.

If you have a source that states it's his own power that gets repelled, I'd be happy to see it. I have looked for it, but personally couldn't find it.

It's storytelling by "show, don't tell". He's adopting a similar "arms outstretched and screaming at the sky" pose as he does in the CGI trailer cinematic just before the Jade Wind, and has even started his scream by the time the acolytes arrive. Look closely at the graphics, and he's already gathering energy to do something when the Oracle arrives, and the graphic that appears in synchronisation with their animation is a glowing bubble - something usually associated with shields. 

 

We also have no indication that turning people to jade is something that the Oracle can do, but we know full well that it's something that can happen when a dying Shiro spreads his arms wise and screams to the sky. The simplest explanation is that the transformative power came from Shiro, probably in a similar "if I die I'm taking you with me" move, and the shield contained it so that he only transformed himself.

 

Now, that's not to say that it was going to be a full-scale Jade Wind since he probably had less energy to power it with, but it's far more likely than the Oracle "sealing his mortal body" by coincidentally also turning his body to jade rather than some other material. They could simply have turned him to stone, but it's jade he turned into, which is significant.

 

Now, you can reject that explanation if you wish, but you're then pretty much relying on "you can't PROVE that I'm wrong!" as your only argument, and that's pretty weak as a basis for arguing that Shiro-the-legend is purely based on Shiro's first lifetime.

[Raknar.4735]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

 

 

Now, you can reject that explanation if you wish, but you're then pretty much relying on "you can't PROVE that I'm wrong!" as your only argument, and that's pretty weak as a basis for arguing that Shiro-the-legend is purely based on Shiro's first lifetime.

 

So no source but only your own interpretation, got it.

Your whole explanation has your own personal bias and personal interpretation as a basis, so you're pretty much relying on what you said yourself: "you can't prove that i'm wrong!".

 

Trying to attack my theory with a "you can't prove that i'm wrong"-strawman instead of proving your interpretation is right is not a great argument and also pretty weak.

 

There's also more arguments in favour of it being the Echo of the first lifetime of Shiro, one example would be Revenants actualy channeling the Jade Wind (which only happened once) directly, not only Shiro, as written in the own skill description: "Legendary Assassin. Call upon the Jade Wind to turn nearby enemies into jade, stunning them for a short duration."

 

This isn't what this topic was originally about, though. That's why I didn't elaborate.

 

But I don't think I'm willing to continue this discussion, as you resort to such bizarre argumentative fallacies like strawmanning. Nothing good has ever come out of discussing things with someone that isn't willing to discuss in good faith. Have a nice day.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[draxynnic.3719]

Circular reasoning. You're basing your argument on your own conclusion, when the alternative hypothesis - that Shiro was about to unleash a second Jade Wind until prevented through being shielded - is if anything a better link to Shiro Revenants being able to use a (weaker and temporary) Jade Wind regularly.

 

I've given my logic. Where is your logic to your argument? Do you have any justification for the Oracle even being CAPABLE of turning someone into jade? You're asking me to prove my side well beyond reasonable doubt, while you haven't even demonstrated that your counter hypothesis is even possible.

 

Occam's razor. Shiro caused a Jade Wind before, he was going through the same motions that preceded a Jade Wind before, and the result was everything inside what appears to be a shield bubble turning to jade. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, probably is a duck. The explanation that requires the least assumptions is that the person known for turning things into jade was about to do so again, and the thing that looked like a shield was a shield that prevented the effect from getting outside the shield.

[reddie.5861]

well this guy won a price he was correct 😉 GS its

[LuRkEr.9462]

14 minutes ago, reddie.5861 said:

well this guy won a price he was correct 😉 GS its

 

Yep the accidental leek of the beta equipment boxes confirms GS for rev. I know that makes me super excited.
I am curious how ANet will respond to the mistaken addition of other class boxes though.

[MrForz.1953]

1 minute ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

 

Yep the accidental leek of the beta equipment boxes confirms GS for rev. I know that makes me super excited.
I am curious how ANet will respond to the mistaken addition of other class boxes though.

 

Careful about those codes, apparently you can setup your own demo boxes with some tinkering.

[Skyroar.2974]

5 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

 

Careful about those codes, apparently you can setup your own demo boxes with some tinkering.

I've tried and failed doing that. Maybe someone with more knowledge that do it properly, but so far, the leak seems real.

[MrForz.1953]

18 minutes ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

I've tried and failed doing that. Maybe someone with more knowledge that do it properly, but so far, the leak seems real.

 

There keep getting proofs and counterproofs and proofs on top. At the very least those are more tangible than whatever was brought on the table in terms of "leaks".

[Legion.4198]

I wonder if they will use an established figure retconned into using the greatsword or they will come up with a entirely new character. Who knows? Maybe a norn merc turned samurai/ritualist hero during Usoku's time?

[genjonah.1253]

Like many others, I was hoping for a Ritualist Revenant elite spec (though I hoped for Xei Ri or Razah over Togo), but with GS that seems unlikely

 

I hope it’s something cool, though frankly I like both previous Rev Specs, so it won’t break my heart if this ones a dud 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:18 PM, DraconusShade.4590 said:

You do realise those masks were worn by assassins as well? An Oni mask does not immediately point to samurai rev especially when the traditional rev icon exists right there next to what looks like dual daggers or GS. My bet is on the mask going to thief.

I doubt the rev icon will be the oni mask? The mask icon doesn't have horns does it? The icon with the rev eye has horns on the top of it doesn't it?

Also the shape around the eye resembles the sword hand guard imo.

I'm betting the oni mask will be thief or elle, my dreams of a asian theme for warrior has been crushed. Nothing says eastern themed like a pistol warrior lol. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[MrForz.1953]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I'm betting the oni mask will be thief or elle, my dreams of a asian theme for warrior has been crushed. Nothing says eastern themed like a pistol warrior lol. 

What's... preventing you from carrying asian themed armor and asian themed weapons on a warrior?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, MrForz.1953 said:

What's... preventing you from carrying asian themed armor and asian themed weapons on a warrior?

I do, my warrior has belindas sword and very sam looking armor, get a lot of holly canthan whispers haha but wish the gs skills were more samurai like and wish warrior got spear(yari) as a weapon. Seems more fitting for asian themed expac than dual pistol warrior imo. Instead tho the closest thing will be a class that's basically all magic based (rev) haha, it's not a big deal, pretty much every decision these devs confuse me anyway, have for 8 yrs so why stop now.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107