Get rid of the phantasms on virtuoso too!

[Artyport.2084]

Just no clones or phantasm at all please. 

maybe make it a trait where you preform the attack at increased damage 

 

OR..

Summon Phantasmal Instruments that do new cool attacks while playing them.

they could be channeled skills that can be traited for stability. meow.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I agree if it is a no clone spec it should be no phantasm aswell. 
I prefer the first solution, example - press gs4 you do the boomerg thingy that deals the phantasmal zerker damage and creates a blade.

[anduriell.6280]

That may be too much of a rework, think not only on the missing attacks form the phantasm but also all the traits that interact with them (and the clones)

 

Now they can something like all the clone traits impacts also phantasms 

[Salt Mode.3780]

5 hours ago, Artyport.2084 said:

Just no clones or phantasm at all please. 

maybe make it a trait where you preform the attack at increased damage 

 

OR..

Summon Phantasmal Instruments that do new cool attacks while playing them.

they could be channeled skills that can be traited for stability. meow.

Just hell to the effing no, mesmer losing clones already lost part of its identity and im not referring any GW1 mesmer because game is different mechanic is different. Stop trying to make mesmer a basic caster when its not suppose to.

[Artyport.2084]

10 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Just hell to the effing no, mesmer losing clones already lost part of its identity and im not referring any GW1 mesmer because game is different mechanic is different. Stop trying to make mesmer a basic caster when its not suppose to.

ah someone who doesnt understand elite specs..

and also doesnt realize that the other elite specs WITH CLONES will still exist. a

a lot of people want a tricky mage who isnt constantly casting clones of itself this spec is mostly there.. TAKE IT ALL THE WAY 

[Salt Mode.3780]

14 minutes ago, Artyport.2084 said:

ah someone who doesnt understand elite specs..

and also doesnt realize that the other elite specs WITH CLONES will still exist. a

a lot of people want a tricky mage who isnt constantly casting clones of itself this spec is mostly there.. TAKE IT ALL THE WAY 

I dont think you understand the mesmer class itself, elite spec isnt to replace how core functions but another way of playing it while retaining core. I dont think you understand mesmer quite enough to understand why changes like that complicate things even further. 

 

Let me break it down to you so simple that even someone who doesnt play GW2 can understand.

1. When phantasms die they create clones for Virtuoso it makes blades, that is a avenue to generate blades.

2. Many of the traits that work on phantasms needs to be changed and reworked to tailor to Virtuoso which isn't going to happen because most of them will affect all the other specs.

3. This will also need to change ALL the weapon skills that summon phantasm interaction specifically for Virtuoso again won't happen because THIS WILL AFFECT THE REST OF THE SPECS. 

4. Lastly phantasms are NO LONGER CLONES they don't function the same way they did back in release.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Artyport.2084]

14 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I dont think you understand the mesmer class itself, elite spec isnt to replace how core functions but another way of playing it while retaining core. I dont think you understand mesmer quite enough to understand why changes like that complicate things even further. 

 

Let me break it down to you so simple that even someone who doesnt play GW2 can understand.

1. When phantasms die they create clones for Virtuoso it makes blades, that is a avenue to generate blades.

2. Many of the traits that work on phantasms needs to be changed and reworked to tailor to Virtuoso which isn't going to happen because most of them will affect all the other specs.

3. This will also need to change ALL the weapon skills that summon phantasm interaction specifically for Virtuoso again won't happen because THIS WILL AFFECT THE REST OF THE SPECS. 

4. Lastly phantasms are NO LONGER CLONES they don't function the same way they did back in release.

first of all.. calm down. lol

i play the game. and have played since gw1.

I do not care how they do it i just want a mesmer with no clones or phantasms at all. 

Logistics of how they do it mean very little to me.  I just want a tricky mage that just utilzes themselves as the trick.. 

and honesty i want a music theme on this class. 

 

these are just things i want.. and  I realize that you may want different.. and thats ok..

no need to act so over pretentious

[Salt Mode.3780]

8 minutes ago, Artyport.2084 said:

first of all.. calm down. lol

i play the game. and have played since gw1.

I do not care how they do it i just want a mesmer with no clones or phantasms at all. 

Logistics of how they do it mean very little to me.  I just want a tricky mage that just utilzes themselves as the trick.. 

and honesty i want a music theme on this class. 

 

these are just things i want.. and  I realize that you may want different.. and thats ok..

no need to act so over pretentious

I love how you assume I was not calm when typing out why your opinions on mesmer was lackluster and thoughtless, as well as I would like to add it doesn't matter if you have played GW1 because it is a entirely different game. 

The fact that you said logistic of how they work mean very little to you shows what type of player you are and is why certain classes not just mesmer get nerfed to the ground because people like you fail to see the bigger picture on class rotation, skill, and application.

 

Nothing I said earlier is something that I want but infact everything you said is what YOU want, I only simply clarified to you and other potential "mesmer players" why things like that wont work and not have this delusional mindset of a narrative that people want to paint on the class.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Artyport.2084]

Gurl bye.. go bout yo day

[Salt Mode.3780]

4 minutes ago, Artyport.2084 said:

Gurl bye.. go bout yo day

Ty for validating what I have to say we can leave this thread to die.

[Levetty.1279]

Honestly, they didn't even bother with an interesting replacement for clones. Do you really think that would put the effort to remove Phantasms too?

[Artyport.2084]

On 8/13/2021 at 8:19 PM, Levetty.1279 said:

Honestly, they didn't even bother with an interesting replacement for clones. Do you really think that would put the effort to remove Phantasms too?

i can hope!

[Quadox.7834]

Yeah I wish phantasms would be gone and the player character would perform the skill instead, for example gs4 would be a whirl like warrior gs3, focus 5 would be a spin like ranger axe 5, pistol 4 would be like thief unload, etc. I feel like they were lazy with virtuoso (except for the animation team) compared to something like weaver

[JazzXman.7018]

On 8/14/2021 at 1:21 AM, Artyport.2084 said:

first of all.. calm down. lol

i play the game. and have played since gw1.

I do not care how they do it i just want a mesmer with no clones or phantasms at all. 

Logistics of how they do it mean very little to me.  I just want a tricky mage that just utilzes themselves as the trick.. 

and honesty i want a music theme on this class. 

 

these are just things i want.. and  I realize that you may want different.. and thats ok..

no need to act so over pretentious

you want to play another class mechanically? fine there are 8 others you can choose from. engi has 4 f-skills as well need to be casted. if you like  a more braindead way of setup requirement than clones, then you can try rev or necro or warrior since energy, adrenalin and shroud mechanic is clearly more near to the blade/songs mechanic than the origin instant shatter/ clone mechanic ever will, and which makes mesmer a mesmer. if you want to play wihtout initiative and any form of steal then swap away from thief. simple as it is. elite specs never were a totally new profession until virtuoso and outside of virtuoso. every other elite spec (incl the new from eod necro and guard)  just add a different mechanic while keeping the basic core class defining mechanics alive. not so virtuoso even tho anet try to prank you by telling you it is the same.

 

if they kept phantasms or not bc of lazyness doesnt even matter at that point but yes if they go for a new profession and lit delete mesmer from eod (gg forum/discord crybabies/ biased mesmer hater who get lost in clones on their first day in gw2) then it would have been more consequent to delete phantasm as well. but i think they needed phantasm to stay simply for the prank, since not even the most credulous person with zero class understanding would think that only pink colour theme and fancy animations (which just try to cover that most skills are just recycled skills from other classes)  make a new mesmer elite.

Edited August 15, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

you want to play another class mechanically? fine there are 8 others you can choose from. engi has 4 f-skills as well need to be casted. if you like  a more braindead way of setup requirement than clones, then you can try rev or necro or warrior since energy, adrenalin and shroud mechanic is clearly more near to the blade/songs mechanic than the origin instant shatter/ clone mechanic ever will, and which makes mesmer a mesmer. if you want to play wihtout initiative and any form of steal then swap away from thief. simple as it is. elite specs never were a totally new profession until virtuoso and outside of virtuoso. every other elite spec (incl the new from eod necro and guard)  just add a different mechanic while keeping the basic core class defining mechanics alive. not so virtuoso even tho anet try to prank you by telling you it is the same.

 

if they kept phantasms or not bc of lazyness doesnt even matter at that point but yes if they go for a new profession and lit delete mesmer from eod (gg forum/discord crybabies/ biased mesmer hater who get lost in clones on their first day in gw2) then it would have been more consequent to delete phantasm as well. but i think they needed phantasm to stay simply for the prank, since not even the most credulous person with zero class understanding would think that only pink colour theme and fancy animations (which just try to cover that most skills are just recycled skills from other classes)  make a new mesmer elite.

This is where I disagree with you.
You want the same profession with minor gimmicks instead of a new one.
I mean come on we (power) have been playing the same build and combos since 2012! Oh we did CS before MB. Oh we did sw ambush instead of f3 and so on. It plays the same!

Phantasms were definitively kept as laziness, reworking traits is too much of an hassle.

And I'm not happy either with Virt, and not because of no clones but because it's the same trash again except worse this time.
They could have done something really cool and clever, instead decided to go the same route once more.
In fact you should rejoice because apart from IP (pretty sure is gone), and the cast time on F's it plays the same!
 

[JazzXman.7018]

3 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

This is where I disagree with you.
You want the same profession with minor gimmicks instead of a new one.
I mean come on we (power) have been playing the same build and combos since 2012! Oh we did CS before MB. Oh we did sw ambush instead of f3 and so on. It plays the same!

Phantasms were definitively kept as laziness, reworking traits is too much of an hassle.

And I'm not happy either with Virt, and not because of no clones but because it's the same trash again except worse this time.
They could have done something really cool and clever, instead decided to go the same route once more.
In fact you should rejoice because apart from IP (pretty sure is gone), and the cast time on F's it plays the same!
 

your power mirage gameplay must be uhm.. intersting if you think that, if you play it like a core mes with just some ambushes added here and there you only use maybe 60% of its potential (where we are at "ppl still dont understand the spec" again).

i just explained where the differences between all other elites and the virtuoso is and also where the difference between an elite spec and a completely new profession is. that is a factual mechanical view. as said if you want to play another profession you have enough choices you can swap to. 

 

but anet did obviously great with the cover that they actually delete mesmer from eod and get even main mesmers to applaud over it. just like ppl celebrate the new shiny animations while missing that all they do is cover low effort recycling of other classes skills. for me it feels like we get pranked and 20 kicks in the face with this recycler profession as mesmer player and ppl just dont get it. but im not buying it. 

 

https://youtu.be/qHAAmdskBqU?t=11

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

your power mirage gameplay must be uhm.. intersting if you think that, if yopu play it liek a core mes with just soem ambushes added here and there you only use maybe 60% of its potential (where we are at "ppl still dont understand the spec" again).

i just explained where the differences between all other elites and the virtuoso is and also where the difference between an elite spec and a completely new profession is. that is a factual mechanical view. as said if you want to play another profession you have enough choices you can swap to. 

 

but anet did obviously great with the cover that they actually delete mesmer from eod and get even main mesmers to applaud over it. just like ppl celebrate the new shiny animations while missing that all they do is cover low effort recycling of other classes skills. for me it feels like we get 20 kicks in the face with this recycler profession as mesmer player and ppl just dont get it. but im not buying it. 

 

https://youtu.be/qHAAmdskBqU?t=11

 

 

 

Well, I am certainly not as skilled as you're. In fact if you search for your name on my posts you'll find nothing but praise. Several times I said that you're probably the best power mesmer on game.

That being said, both chrono and mirage are the same as core with one new mechanic. You still use GS S/X you still burst the same way you did on 2012. You still use the same utilities. And so on.

Sure you ambush to create or close gaps, to daze or do damage, everything else is the same.

 

I don't want to play other profession I want to play different weapons, different combos, different mechanics. Not the same create food shatters food. And virtuoso doesnt solve it either. Is still the same but with different names.

[JazzXman.7018]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Well, I am certainly not as skilled as you're. In fact if you search for your name on my posts you'll find nothing but praise. Several times I said that you're probably the best power mesmer on game.

That being said, both chrono and mirage are the same as core with one new mechanic. You still use GS S/X you still burst the same way you did on 2012. You still use the same utilities. And so on.

Sure you ambush to create or close gaps, to daze or do damage, everything else is the same.

 

I don't want to play other profession I want to play different weapons, different combos, different mechanics. Not the same create food shatters food. And virtuoso doesnt solve it either. Is still the same but with different names.

oh big thx for the nice words ❤️ also dont get me wrong im not mad at you and its not meant as flame or something also didnt want to be arrogant or egotisitc but actually if you play power ih mirage correct (also when its same weapons and utilities) the playstyle is very different from core. like rly big different (ih should be a minor trait tho).

 

and ofc elite specs also should feel different and can also feel even more different (like there are a lot of thief player saying that they dont count deadeye as thief bc it is so different, but in the end mechanically it is still a thief since it kept the class defining mechanics/the class identity alive, which are initiative and a steal, while it doesnt matter if the steal is porting to a target or if it is a range skill for that matter).

 

so for mesmer that means they could change what shatters do when you use them, not f1=power dmg, f2=confusion/lower pdmg, f3=daze, f4= defensive. they could become more creative here and they can add other mechanics on traits (funny that virtuoso traits dont offer anything new mechanically, they are also just uncreative mostly passive dmg mulitplier and some defensive that is also not new in any way, shape or form) and they also can add new mechanics on other skill slots (like they did with ambushes on auto attack and even add another f5 shatter) but that shatters are instant and linked to illusions to balance the strong instant nature out and make the setup requirement as unique as it was on mes (and what makes mes a mes in its uniqueness) rly needs to stay. everything else? change it as much as you want. i might dont like it but i would not say its not a mesmer anymore.

 

 

the recycler lit only downgrates shatters (overnerf them lit) while only recycling old mechanics from other classes (the new blade setup is more near to war adrenalin , necro lf/shroud mechanic and even rev energy system than classic shattermes, it only copies old core traits from mes and other classes and old skills from other classes. so its not a mesmer anymore but in the end still doesnt add anything new. i just ask myself how hard you have to try on purpose to fail like that ...

Edited August 16, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Salt Mode.3780]

I would say of the 3 spec from core, Mirage playstyle is completely different. Core, Chrono, and Virtuoso are all burst based dmg whereas Mirage is sustained dps. Like I said before, you almost never want to shatter Mirage clones unless you really have to, where as Core, Chrono, and Virtuoso you are losing dps if you dont shatter as clones don't serve the same functions as Mirage.

That is the reason why Mirage feels better in reasons that mesmer always struggled with sustained dmg compared to other classes, against other classes that can sustain your dmg you will never win unless you one shot them, Mirage is the only spec that can contest that.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[AXLIB.8425]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I would say of the 3 spec from core, Mirage playstyle is completely different. Core, Chrono, and Virtuoso are all burst based dmg whereas Mirage is sustained dps. Like I said before, you almost never want to shatter Mirage clones unless you really have to, where as Core, Chrono, and Virtuoso you are losing dps if you dont shatter as clones don't serve the same functions as Mirage.

That is the reason why Mirage feels better in reasons that mesmer always struggled with sustained dmg compared to other classes, against other classes that can sustain your dmg you will never win unless you one shot them, Mirage is the only spec that can contest that.

if you want to maximise your damage, you do want to shatter with f2 if you can get 3 clones up right after, which is about the only reason illusion warlock exist that i can think of, other than anet trolling us.

But that is mostly because mirage has core shatter, it would be really nice if mirage get new "shatter" that don't get rid of your clones, but instead so something else. 

[Quadox.7834]

2 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

oh big thx for the nice words ❤️ also dont get me wrong im not mad at you and its not meant as flame or something also didnt want to be arrogant or egotisitc but actually if you play power ih mirage correct (also when its same weapons and utilities) the playstyle is very different from core. like rly big different (ih should be a minor trait tho).

 

and ofc elite specs also should feel different and can also feel even more different (like there are a lot of thief player saying that they dont count deadeye as thief bc it is so different, but in the end mechanically it is still a thief since it kept the class defining mechanics/the class identity alive, which are initiative and a steal, while it doesnt matter if the steal is porting to a target or if it is a range skill for that matter).

 

so for mesmer that means they could change what shatters do when you use them, not f1=power dmg, f2=confusion/lower pdmg, f3=daze, f4= defensive. they could become more creative here and they can add other mechanics on traits (funny that virtuoso traits dont offer anything new mechanically, they are also just uncreative mostly passive dmg mulitplier and some defensive that is also not new in any way, shape or form) and they also can add new mechanics on other skill slots (like they did with ambushes on auto attack and even add another f5 shatter) but that shatters are instant and linked to illusions to balance the strong instant nature out and make the setup requirement as unique as it was on mes (and what makes mes a mes in its uniqueness) rly needs to stay. everything else? change it as much as you want. i might dont like it but i would not say its not a mesmer anymore.

 

 

the recycler lit only downgrates shatters (overnerf them lit) while only recycling old mechanics from other classes (the new blade setup is more near to war adrenalin , necro lf/shroud mechanic and even rev energy system than classic shattermes, it only copies old core traits from mes and other classes and old skills from other classes. so its not a mesmer anymore but in the end still doesnt add anything new. i just ask myself how hard you have to try on purpose to fail like that ...

you say instant shatters are an important core mechanic of mesmer, are instant virtues an important core mechanic of guard?

[Zoser.7245]

1 hour ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

if you want to maximise your damage, you do want to shatter with f2 if you can get 3 clones up right after, which is about the only reason illusion warlock exist that i can think of, other than anet trolling us.

But that is mostly because mirage has core shatter, it would be really nice if mirage get new "shatter" that don't get rid of your clones, but instead so something else. 

Uhmmm..... Haven't you seen that the confusion equation will change next week? Have you calculated the future damage before affirm your answer? 😁

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

8 hours ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

oh big thx for the nice words ❤️ also dont get me wrong im not mad at you and its not meant as flame or something also didnt want to be arrogant or egotisitc but actually if you play power ih mirage correct (also when its same weapons and utilities) the playstyle is very different from core. like rly big different (ih should be a minor trait tho).

 

and ofc elite specs also should feel different and can also feel even more different (like there are a lot of thief player saying that they dont count deadeye as thief bc it is so different, but in the end mechanically it is still a thief since it kept the class defining mechanics/the class identity alive, which are initiative and a steal, while it doesnt matter if the steal is porting to a target or if it is a range skill for that matter).

 

so for mesmer that means they could change what shatters do when you use them, not f1=power dmg, f2=confusion/lower pdmg, f3=daze, f4= defensive. they could become more creative here and they can add other mechanics on traits (funny that virtuoso traits dont offer anything new mechanically, they are also just uncreative mostly passive dmg mulitplier and some defensive that is also not new in any way, shape or form) and they also can add new mechanics on other skill slots (like they did with ambushes on auto attack and even add another f5 shatter) but that shatters are instant and linked to illusions to balance the strong instant nature out and make the setup requirement as unique as it was on mes (and what makes mes a mes in its uniqueness) rly needs to stay. everything else? change it as much as you want. i might dont like it but i would not say its not a mesmer anymore.

 

 

the recycler lit only downgrates shatters (overnerf them lit) while only recycling old mechanics from other classes (the new blade setup is more near to war adrenalin , necro lf/shroud mechanic and even rev energy system than classic shattermes, it only copies old core traits from mes and other classes and old skills from other classes. so its not a mesmer anymore but in the end still doesnt add anything new. i just ask myself how hard you have to try on purpose to fail like that ...

We'll never agree on this one. 

I would go even further than ANerf. I would make elite similar to second class on Ragnarok Online, meaning both chrono and mirage would have totally different skills. Of course that would require a lot of work. 

In the current ANerf style I think willbender is a nice example how all elites should have been. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735
Typos

[Artyport.2084]

Instead of phantasms we can summon phantasmic harps and flutes that do something new. Still summoning illusions they just happen to be instruments. 
instead of the phantasms chasing and being attached to enemies they would be ground targeted. This works with the virtuoso’s lore of not needed an enemy to manifest its psionic abilities 

[Salt Mode.3780]

So the whole point of getting rid of phantasms is so you can put your own agenda, stop trying to add things that don't matter and fix the stuff we currently have that do. 

 

FYI That is asking for a recolored remodeled shade from scourge. 

 

Sometimes I am relieved that ANET don't read Mesmer section of the forum cuz of copium ideas.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780