Sodeni.6041 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) For a pure power dps spec (the "condi option" is laughable) this seems really lackluster, especially dps wise. Considering how much defensive aspects you give up (insta f3 cast, insta f4 cast, no distort on f4, you HAVE to use the distortion utility. you need to use condi cleanse utilities too, etc.). In comparison to harbinger and willbender the virtuose really got the least impressive and useful set imo. Necro can go power dps, condi dps or full on boon support. Willbender will be a nightmare to face in pvp and wvw due to tons of mobility skills, anti death skills and tons of CC and dps. Virtuoso has nowhere near as much cc or control conditions and ZERO mobility. Why not give us an offhand dagger with some mobility skills too? I hope they will change things from the beta onwards. I'm most looking forward to interactions of other traits and skills with Virtuoso. Like signet of illusions will be more useful for constant blade generation or traits for a blade on dodge, etc. Build crafting will be fun but I hope the power will also be good. Edited August 14, 2021 by Sodeni.6041 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Seems almost too fair for the enemy lol clear animations and proj based stuff which is imo good design overall but that would require other builds to be very fair also. I think its gonna be a beast in pve and maybe ok in pvp but in blobs it will prpb suffer from all the proj hate. Prob tailored more to roaming. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 I've just noticed the Gloves on the Virtuoso avatar changed. Certainly feels more virtuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) Deadly Blades - scrap it, we already have ton of vulnerability on domination. - blades are unblockable vs movement impared targets or something alike, or +120 power +120 power if dagger is equiped. Mental Focus - makes no sense, +15% damage if more than 600 range. (and even that seems kind of bad) Jagged Mind - a duplicate trait, that's so lazy, sharper image is enough. Replace with something clever. Phantasmal Blade - we saw that one in action with Karl, 1500 dmg each phantasm, not bad with double zerkers, everything else is lackluster. Why fury? Three Major Masters with the same boon. Sharpening Sorrow - why fury again? expertise part is fine I guess for condi users. Infinite Forge - trash tier. Replace with 5 blades F1 create a Deep Wound. Deep Wound is a new condition that reduces 20% maximum hp. Deep Wound is applied before damage. Plenty of stuff to improve, change those traits with some useful stuff, you know, cc and mobility! We're supposed to be ranged! Edited August 13, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735 Infinite Forge idea 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 I don't know why they went to all the trouble of classifying all those different skills as blade skills when only one trait, in a playstyle that the elite spec doesn't really support, makes use of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseison.4659 Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 I'm liking everyone's suggestions for some of the traits that should/need to be replaced, but definitely write those down and save them for the feedback thread so we all can compile them together. I for one hope we get a 25% movement speed trait like what the Willbender got. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXLIB.8425 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 https://i.redd.it/r3qod75kd7h71.png image of all the skills and trait, not done by me, by someone on reddit 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 If you watch at it, it's really easy to nerf, i mean... to "balance". They already nerfed its elite damage. And if needed if will be more balanced in the future! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Lol hate to say I told you so but to those who thought traits were going to make a huge difference this is just a huge slap in the face. Based on the utilities we got and the skills we have it is pretty difficult to make it GOOD without it being "overpowered" in most people's eyes especially when it comes to mesmer anything. Looking at necro e-spec and guardian e-spec Virtuoso pales in comparison to those 2. I hate to agree to the guy who says Virtuoso is basically the class that all mesmer haters want and nothing mesmer mains can use. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said: I'm liking everyone's suggestions for some of the traits that should/need to be replaced, but definitely write those down and save them for the feedback thread so we all can compile them together. I for one hope we get a 25% movement speed trait like what the Willbender got. I suggested give it a realiable source to gain superpeed often or some mobility. Obviously they don't want ot give it to this specialization. And having already a 25% movement speed in the Chronomancer trait line, i discard it now. But well... hopes are hopes... We are free to hope a lot. I don't see them reworking things for now while they are working in the next specializations to release. Maybe for the 4th beta test if they open a feedback thread after the beta test "and want" improve it we can get something. But if not, they'll only tweak numbers. And this specializations seems to be built completely around its dps and numbers... sadly. But well, we can try to give them ideas and watch if they are ignored as usual or be have luck and get something better. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Zoser.7245 said: I suggested give it a realiable source to gain superpeed often or some mobility. Obviously they don't want ot give it to this specialization. And having already a 25% movement speed in the Chronomancer trait line, i discard it now. But well... hopes are hopes... We are free to hope a lot. When compared alongside Chronomancer and Mirage, I feel like Virtuoso deserves to be the least mobile. That might be very inconvenient but that's life. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Xaylin.1860 said: When compared alongside Chronomancer and Mirage, I feel like Virtuoso deserves to be the least mobile. That might be very inconvenient but that's life. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said: delete Edited August 13, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: When compared alongside Chronomancer and Mirage, I feel like Virtuoso deserves to be the least mobile. That might be very inconvenient but that's life. Actually that is the exact opposite to what it should be, the fact that Virtuoso has no clones whatsoever serving a distraction from you casting should be offset with mobility or speed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said: Why? Why I don't think that all e-specs should have good mobility or why I do think that Virtuoso should be the least mobile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said: Actually that is the exact opposite to what it should be, the fact that Virtuoso has no clones whatsoever serving a distraction from you casting should be offset with mobility or speed. I'm sorry, but that's a bs-argument. Clones don't serve any distraction against somewhat capable opponents. The time theme on Chrono justifies the movement speed. And the trickery and evasiveness does justify stuff like Superspeed on Mirage. Virtuoso on the other hand is a straight forward glass cannon. The lack in mobility and evasiveness is its weakness. Edited August 13, 2021 by Xaylin.1860 its and it's 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzXman.7018 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said: Seems I got one of the traits right, on some other thread - phantasmal blade, seems bad tho. Tbf, mirage was also patheticly bad on beta, so there's hope. actually mirage wasnt bad in beta, it was clearly broken already (for condi purposes), and the only buff that made sense at that point was the increased ambush window after dodge for better tactical uses instead just braindead spam as fast as possible after a dodge (what wouldnt even be an issue for the passive condi ambushes, lit the only buff that added skill cap and did something good for power mirage in history). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Just now, Xaylin.1860 said: I'm sorry, but that's a bs-argument. Clones don't serve any distraction against somewhat capable opponents. The time theme on Chrono justifies the movement speed. And the trickery and evasiveness does justify stuff like Superspeed. Virtuoso on the other hand is a straight forward glass cannon. The lack in mobility and evasiveness is it's weakness. Its funny how you say straight forward glass cannon when the dmg is weaker then core mesmer itself is kinda hilarious. 5 blades to equal to a core 1 clone and IP is not glass cannon. As far as elite goes I mean that is the only "glass cannon" thing virtuoso provides and even then it get a nerf before release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Just now, Salt Mode.3780 said: Its funny how you say straight forward glass cannon when the dmg is weaker then core mesmer itself is kinda hilarious. 5 blades to equal to a core 1 clone and IP is not glass cannon. As far as elite goes I mean that is the only "glass cannon" thing virtuoso provides and even then it get a nerf before release. If there is anything NOT to judge an e-spec by that is currently is in developement, it's their current damage numbers. ANet clearly wants it to be a damage spec. The numbers being under- or overtuned is the easiest issue to resolve until release. And if it wasn't a damage spec, what do you personally think it was? There is nothing else there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said: actually mirage wasnt bad in beta, it was clearly broken already (for condi purposes), and the only buff that made sense at that point was the increased ambush window after dodge for better tactical uses instead just braindead spam as fast as possible after a dodge (what wouldnt even be an issue for the passive condi ambushes, lit the only buff that added skill cap and did something good for power mirage in history). Several stuff got buffed. Axe skills, Jaunt, MC and ambush on top of mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXLIB.8425 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said: If there is anything NOT to judge an e-spec by that is currently is in developement, it's their current damage numbers. ANet clearly wants it to be a damage spec. The numbers being under- or overtuned is the easiest issue to resolve until release. And if it wasn't a damage spec, what do you personally think it was? There is nothing else there. Anet clearly wants this to be the spec for non mesmer player, either to try out the cool new visual with no clone management or give people in pvp an easy farm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Lootbag e-spec? Gain Fury when looted 5 times? 😅 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune.9572 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) virtuoso is just core mesmer but worse, don't @ me Edited August 13, 2021 by rune.9572 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzXman.7018 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said: Several stuff got buffed. Axe skills, Jaunt, MC and ambush on top of mind. yes and they were all unnecessary, except for the one i mentioned with the increased ambush window. that was my point 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Mode.3780 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Just now, rune.9572 said: virtuoso is worse than core mesmer don't @ me Actually dmg number wise yes the fact that especs lock you down to using the espec trait doesnt allow room for much compared to core. Core you are able to get dmg as well as either taking chaos or insp traitline depending on what you are lacking. I do hope that the dmg for virtuoso gets tweaked but the fact that its ranged it most likely will not, again because its 1200 range skills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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