The Virtuoso: Traits Discussion

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 minute ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

yes and they were all unnecessary, except for the one i mentioned with the increased ambush window. that was my point 🙂

Nah, both axe and MC were clunky af.
Range on Jaunt was like 400, barely got you out of melee.
 

[Levetty.1279]

31 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Why I don't think that all e-specs should have good mobility or why I do think that Virtuoso should be the least mobile?

Why do you think that Virtuoso should be the least mobile?

Edited August 14, 2021 by Levetty.1279

[Levetty.1279]

26 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

actually mirage wasnt bad in beta, it was clearly broken already (for condi purposes)

You are literally the only person who thought that. Even Mesmer haters thought Mirage was a poor spec. It was so bad that Anet finally reworked Phantasms.

[Xaylin.1860]

I mentioned it one post later. Chronomancer is time themed and Mirage is the tricky slippery one. Virtuoso has the advantage of range instead.

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

You are literally the only person who thought that. Even Mesmer haters thought Mirage was a poor spec. It was so bad that Anet finally reworked Phantasms.

Actually mesmer haters are the reason why mirage now has one dodge. At release it wasnt until the condi mirage build that was made did mirage really shine, again because mirage was technically the premier condi spec compared to chrono. This was also before the time where people used IH over Elusive Mind because of how stupidly OP Elusive Mind was even after they gave it exhaustion. 

 

But the only reason why people picked up IH is because Elusive Mind became unusable and Sand dune was never used since released.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Levetty.1279]

Duplicate.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Levetty.1279

[Levetty.1279]

26 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

If there is anything NOT to judge an e-spec by that is currently is in developement, it's their current damage numbers. ANet clearly wants it to be a damage spec. The numbers being under- or overtuned is the easiest issue to resolve until release.

 

And if it wasn't a damage spec, what do you personally think it was? There is nothing else there. 

Well we know that several skills have already been nerfed.

We know its a ranged focused spec in a game where Melee does more damage.

We know that the guy showing it off was talking about how every one of the mediocre traits were too powerful and might need nerfing.

We know that the guy showing it off laughed at how badly Mirage got nerfed by removing a dodge.

And we know that they claim to want feedback on the specs.

 

Seems like enough to point out how bad the spec is to me.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Well we know that several skills have already been nerfed.

We know its a ranged focused spec in a game where Melee does more damage.

We know that the guy showing it off was talking about how every one of the mediocre traits were too powerful and might need nerfing.

We know that the guy showing it off laughed at how badly Mirage got nerfed by removing a dodge.

And we know that they claim to want feedback on the specs.

 

Seems like enough to judge it to me.

I have never liked a comment fast enough then this. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Well we know that several skills have already been nerfed.

We know its a ranged focused spec in a game where Melee does more damage.

We know that the guy showing it off was talking about how every one of the mediocre traits were too powerful and might need nerfing.

We know that the guy showing it off laughed at how badly Mirage got nerfed by removing a dodge.

And we know that they claim to want feedback on the specs.

 

Seems like enough to judge it to me.

dont forget the usual mesmer " ranged " weapon vibe we always get.
Its ranged but you have to run into melee to use it properly.
cough gs2/4, staff 5/1 and now dagger

EDIT
the most exciting thing this entire espec did for me is the dagger bouncing off the flor.
I think its gonna be fun to do for the first 5min, then im gonna log off to play shiro/thief baby called something will bender gender whatever

Edited August 14, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649

[Levetty.1279]

7 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

I mentioned it one post later. Chronomancer is time themed and Mirage is the tricky slippery one. Virtuoso has the advantage of range instead.

Want to blow your mind? Equip GS, Staff, or Scepter on your Mirage and Chrono.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

dont forget the usual mesmer " ranged " weapon vibe we always get.
Its ranged but you have to run into melee to use it properly.
cough gs2/4, staff 5/1 and now dagger

I would like to add how fcking slow the projectiles actually are compared to actual ranged specs. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

Just now, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I would like to add how fcking slow the projectiles actually are compared to actual ranged specs. 

honestly, as long as they are tracking its gonna be fine, what worries me is that nothing in there is actually interesting and impact-full so the ONLY thing they can do to make it viable is shove in damage, and by looking at state of berserker and sic em ranger we all can see how being a 1trick pony goes

[Salt Mode.3780]

9 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

I mentioned it one post later. Chronomancer is time themed and Mirage is the tricky slippery one. Virtuoso has the advantage of range instead.

I would like to add that GS Staff on mirage with IH deals more dmg then Virtuoso, and the best thing about GS is it isnt blocked by projectile blocks because its a ranged that isn't a projectile, fact that Mirage you dont care about shattering your clones because of IH really makes me wonder where Virtuoso's place is.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Just now, Leonidrex.5649 said:

honestly, as long as they are tracking its gonna be fine, what worries me is that nothing in there is actually interesting and impact-full so the ONLY thing they can do to make it viable is shove in damage, and by looking at state of berserker and sic em ranger we all can see how being a 1trick pony goes

I mean rangers have better traits and utilities then virtuoso that helps it back up the one trick pony dmg, i mean unblockable and even further range??? At least those one trick ponys work extremely well as intended but Virtuoso not so much.

[FranzM.1298]

My gripes so far

 

1. There no swiftness or cripple or anything to help kite people moving around.
2. Mental Focus - is the 600 range threshold is a must??? 😒
3. They should replace Phantasmal Blade with Bladesong cooldown reduction and put the fury with Deadly Blades instead!
4. Would have been nice to have some more might generation + boon share on the top line since it was mostly removed from core.
5. Psychic Riposte is not a "Grand Master" based on that description & needs to do more. Maybe have it cause blades to immobilize, cripple, daze?
6. Maybe have the blade popping traits send out to multiple targets or bounce?

However, I have a feeling the Bladesongs are not projectiles since they don't have the projectile tool tip so that'll be something.

 

Overall I don't see why I would ever choose Virtuoso over Mirage, Chrono or Core. Anyhow will have to wait until Tuesday to see what's up.

Edited August 14, 2021 by FranzM.1298
Grammar and spelling. Corrected: "Overall I don't see why I would ever choose Mirage, Chrono or Core over Virtuoso. "

[Levetty.1279]

1 minute ago, FranzM.1298 said:

Overall I don't see why I would ever choose Mirage, Chrono or Core over Virtuoso. Anyhow will have to wait until Tuesday to see what's up.

More damage, sustain, boon generation, support. Pick your poison.

[JazzXman.7018]

38 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

We know that the guy showing it off was talking about how every one of the mediocre traits were too powerful and might need nerfing.

We know that the guy showing it off laughed at how badly Mirage got nerfed by removing a dodge.

And we know that they claim to want feedback on the specs.

 

Seems like enough to point out how bad the spec is to me.

instant ninja upvote lool so true. i also like how he was way less concrete about future nerfs towards the waay more broken guard/ necro elites than this pink themed recycler profession. in  the end mesmer got deleted from eod. both other classes have (just like other elite specs) different mechanics from core while keeping the class defining core mechanics alive, not so mesmer with that new profession instead a new elite spec. casual wars and mesmer bias/ hate won, bb eod mesmer.

 

50 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Nah, both axe and MC were clunky af.
Range on Jaunt was like 400, barely got you out of melee.
 

mc to 1 sec was the biggest mistake ever, axe was more a bug fix if i remember right since a buff in dmg or defensive or cd it never needed. 

the jaunt change was ok, im happy with it but i could also do enough cool stuff with the origin range (most z-axis ports were possible in pvp for example). having bit more range but for that only 2 charges makes sense (also the charge nerf from 3 to 2 came later).

Edited August 14, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[FranzM.1298]

Just now, Levetty.1279 said:

More damage, sustain, boon generation, support. Pick your poison.

I miss typed. i meant the opposite of what i said LOL just corrected it.

[Salt Mode.3780]

There is a sad realization and truth that the devs are probably not even reading these comments.

[JazzXman.7018]

32 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

You are literally the only person who thought that. Even Mesmer haters thought Mirage was a poor spec. It was so bad that Anet finally reworked Phantasms.

ppl just didnt understand it (most still dont sadly, often now with the opposite effect of overhating it). and the phantasm rework was not bc of mirage. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[Levetty.1279]

13 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

ppl just didnt understand it (most still dont sadly, often now with the opposite effect of overhating it). and the phantasm rework was not bc of mirage. 

It was because of the reaction to Mirage.

[Salt Mode.3780]

24 minutes ago, JazzXman.7018 said:

ppl just didnt understand it (most still dont sadly, often now with the opposite effect of overhating it). and the phantasm rework was not bc of mirage. 

i mean pretty sure the devs dont understand mesmers as well.... if the people who made the game cant understand how do u think players will...

[JazzXman.7018]

14 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

It was because of the reaction to Mirage.

that would be new to me. they didnt say anything like that. the change was related to the core mechanic of passive phantasm minion gameplay preventing the use of the actual main class mechanic (shatters).

 

Quote: "Mesmers always have had a tension between clones and phantasms; this tension was designed into the profession when the game launched. The idea was that shattering clones would be good for burst damage while leaving phantasms active would be an option for sustained damage. Choosing whether or not to shatter was intended to be one of the core decision points for those playing mesmer.

However we've discovered as the game has developed and evolved that providing this tension usually ends up removing the incentive to use the profession's core mechanic and leads to more passive gameplay. This can be seen in a lot of "optimized" builds for mesmers involving summoning three phantasms and then auto-attacking for extended periods of time in order to avoid destroying the phantasms by using another illusion skill."

 

link for full thread: 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[JazzXman.7018]

10 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

i mean pretty sure the devs dont understand mesmers as well.... if the people who made the game cant understand how do u think players will...

 yeah sadly this cluelessness (lack in class knowledge/ understanding) all over the community is the reason for that narrowed mesmer (and esp mirage-) hate/bias since game release and the bad nonsense mesmer balances since around 3 years (prob the time the last dev with at least basic understanding of the class left the company)

Edited August 14, 2021 by JazzXman.7018

[phokus.8934]

Very uninteresting traits that takes from other traitlines.  Gotta say, this spec doesn't tickle me in the right way that Chrono and Mirage did.