The Virtuoso: Traits Discussion

[Me Games Ma.3024]

Alright here's my take on all the traits (PvE perspective)

• Deadly Blades: This is very underwhelming, we have a whole traitline focused around Vulnerability. Mesmer is already very good at applying vuln so I don't see a reason why we need even more sources.
• Quiet Intensity: Great Trait. This is something Mesmer has needed for ages. However I am almost certain that Phantasms will not gain the 10% boost so it's actually not as good as one might think. If however this trait also applies on phantasms then Virtuoso gets 310 stat points for free (210 precision = 10% crit and 100 ferocity from 1000 base vit)
• Mental Focus: Obviously the trait to go. We will go melee anyways so this is free 15% i like it. but it's nothing "special"
• Jagged Mind: I HATE it. Why does condition application have to be bound to criticals and also to only a specific number of skills? This is aweful! Even the duration is only 2s! If we don't get the super condition-crit stat combo in the expansion we're still stuck with viper's which only has about 70% critchance with the new fury. This trait seems REALLY bad. It either shouldn't require crits or blade skills. Again why limit this to blade skills? Are we not allowed to have fun with scepter?
• Bladeturn Refrain: Not for PvE
• Phantasmal Blades: Completely depends on the Damage, it will probably still be the way to go in PvE since it's a minor Damage increase.
• Sharpening Sorrow: If condition Virtuoso is a thing this is obviously the trait to go. However I doubt that virtuoso is gonna be good for condition damage as there's too little support within the dagger and the rest of the specialization. (Still I like the 150 free statpoints)
• Duelist's Reversal: Again not for PvE.
• Psychic Riposte: Alright I imagine that this is the the second best of the 3 grandmasters and that's only because you'll be evading and blocking anyways. So gaining a little bit of damage here and there seems to be our best bet.
• Infinite Forge: Oof. This seems really weird to play. In theory you'll want to stack up your blades as fast as you can which will lead to this trait not working as well as we'd like. In theory we'd want this to generate 3 of our 5 blades but we can not delay our phantasms that long so we once again have a trait that's completely counterintuitive and will never be as efficient as we'd like it to be. Keep in mind that we're already using mirror images instead of signet on our builds because the 10s interval is something we can't control!

Bloodsong: I honestly think this is the best trait to stack blades and that's only because it doesn't have an ICD. If stacking blades is what we do then this trait is gonna be our bread and butter. If we play S+S / S+F we'll essentially gain 2 blades from our Sword Phantasm and 3 Blades from our Focus Phantasm. So I think if we want to shatter away this trait will be very important. (Also we already apply a lot of bleeding on Dueling)

ADD:

Ummm.... No dagger trait or did I miss something? No Utility trait?

Why? Necro got a Pistol AND an Elixir trait. Guard already has a sword trait in Radiance. I feel like the traits we got are just super generic and they didn't even try to come up with a fun trait dagger or the psionics.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Me Games Ma.3024

[Infusion.7149]

7 hours ago, Roda.7468 said:

Do we have screencaps?  I didn't memorize the specifics. :x

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/p3vx3x/herer_we_go_mesmer_buddies/

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Going to be quite hard for Virtuoso to match PvE chrono unless blades can make up for phantasms x1.75. You still need to build up blades so the ramp up is still existent.

A single blade is listed as 395 damage. Bladesong Harmony (f1) is 653 damage.

The only skill shown with more than a 1K tooltip was the elite skill Thousand Cuts which is on 75 cooldown.

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/p3vx3x/herer_we_go_mesmer_buddies/

---
 

Going to be quite hard for Virtuoso to match PvE chrono unless blades can make up for phantasms x1.75. You still need to build up blades so the ramp up is still existent.

A single blade is listed as 395 damage. Bladesong Harmony (f1) is 653 damage.

The only skill shown with more than a 1K tooltip was the elite skill Thousand Cuts which is on 75 cooldown.

Also as far as shatter goes 5 blade shatter deals a bit more dmg then a core mesmer spec with 1 clone and IP....

[Daishi.6027]

Why do we even have ANOTHER condi line? And why tf is the condi line offering the most lenient blade generation?

Can't wait for Condi to be op and them nerf power to make condi work again 🙄

[Hobyrimvrahms.6910]

Why are most of the traits are applying condi/boons that the baseline trait already provides?

 

Nothing new on traitlines

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2 hours ago, Daishi.6027 said:

Why do we even have ANOTHER condi line? And why tf is the condi line offering the most lenient blade generation?

Can't wait for Condi to be op and them nerf power to make condi work again 🙄

I don't think it will work. One condition, mirage will still be better even with the trash nerfs on torment.

Better scrap the bottom row and do something with cc and mobility, this is clearly a power spec with condi being an afterthought.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[ThomasC.1056]

I've also been fairly disappointed with the traits.

 

I feel like they are too generic, some are rough copies of other traits. I don't see synergies or really specific things that would be a meaningful tradeoff.

 

To me, the thing is : virtuoso is a class designed on something narrow. Like pew pew damage all around as  the only distinctive characteristic. Shatters are pew pew damage, dagger is pew pew damage, utilities are... Well... You got it. No hybrid DMG, no boons or significant locking condis, debuff, or whatever, to increase the playstyles.

 

Therefore, traits can only deal with pew pew, so they're lacking flavour, as you have to create 9 traits around it, they can only feel lackluster.

 

That unfortunately won't move me out of mirage, eventhough the poor espec has been torn to shreds.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

I'm really hoping the spinning blades on Bladeturn Requiem inflict bleeding when traited into Jagged mind. that would be a really cool interaction and would make condi builds much stronger.

Edited August 14, 2021 by WhoWantsAHug.3186
Confused trait name

[appelflap.8310]

I'm disappointed with the virtuoso traits. No mobility traits so that means yet again 25% movement speed runes, i like that the blades wont disappear like clones do. Perma quickness virtuoso seems fun but it will get nerfed 100% so rework this trait right now so we don't end up getting this trait nerfed so hard it's unplayable leaving power mesmers with 1 option in that line wich will be phantasmal blades (why make traits that are going to get nerfed 100%. I've only read that trait (duelist's reversal) and it's already op, imagine playing with it) , also devs doubt themselves on stream about trait choices (makes me wonder). I'm curious about the burst potential it got, the tracking of the bladesongs/dagger skills (let's hope it tracks stealthed players), synergy with other shatter traits. 

Beta is going to be fun, let's hope i can say the same about virtuoso

Edited August 14, 2021 by appelflap.8310

[aymnad.9023]

11 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

 

 

Mental Focus - makes no sense, +15% damage if more than 600 range. (and even that seems kind of bad)

 

 

 

WITHIN the range. Stream between 41min30s and 42min

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

16 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

 

WITHIN the range. Stream between 41min30s and 42min

 

I know, hence the suggestion on making it more than 600.

[aymnad.9023]

1 minute ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I know, hence the suggestion on making it more than 600.

That was a suggestion? Nothing in your post indicates that. And that would be a no from me because they are trying to get it to work in PvE

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

13 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

That was a suggestion? Nothing in your post indicates that. And that would be a no from me because they are trying to get it to work in PvE

Well, everyone else seem to understand it.
As for pve, everything works in pve.

[aymnad.9023]

16 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Well, everyone else seem to understand it.
As for pve, everything works in pve.

🙄 no since it is absolutely not said anywhere you can misinterpret that and no I do not remember seeing spellbreakers outside of quadim 6  which is why they try to buff mid / close range.

Edited August 14, 2021 by aymnad.9023

[mortrialus.3062]

The 15% damage within a certain range is weird since i thought the thesis of this specialization is that it allows memser to operate and shatter more effectively at long range without needing to shotgun clones and illusory persona at point blank range.

Edited August 14, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

WVW/PVP based.

Two oh dagger skills:

dagger 4 18sec cd 2sec immobilize+ dmg.
dagger 5 25sec phantasm that if connects cripples 6 sec.

 

Deadly Blades - I don't remember who said it, 25% movement and +33% cc we apply on a minor (just so it won't be a copy of time marches on).

 

Jagged Mind - psionics recharge faster and inflict slow.

 

Sharpening Sorrow - convert f3 to stun (CS was fine!) or f3 now shots blades that form a prision (similar to dh lb 5)

 

Quiet Intensity - I hate that it's dependent on the major master. - make it independent by adding conditional fury.

 

Infinity Forge - Replace with 5 blades F1 create a Deep Wound. Deep Wound is a new condition that reduces 20% maximum hp. Deep Wound is applied before damage.

 

Bloodsong - Replace with convert one of the F skills or several to a flip skill, the flip skill does a teleport 600 range or whatever either foward or backwards.

Probably some stuff is overtuned, I don't care I'm not on balance team.


 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

There needs to be a GM trait that makes bladesong blades unblockable so it can't be reflected. (With probably trade-off like 15%-25% damage reduction in pvp/wvw).

 

This will allow virtuoso to finally give mesmer proper role in WvW outside of niche veil/portal bot, while not making it OP with pierce and unblockable.

 

Otherwise I agree with pretty much everyone here. The new traitlines are uninspiringly boring, copied existing effect that base mesmer already have access to with few sprinkled extra while not allowing different playstyles among different traits. This also makes other base traitline felt very much like lost of opportunities when picking them given the overlaps.

 

Virtuoso should have a line that focus on lockdown (one that basically was nerfed/removed from base mesmer over the years), one that allows power presence/blade effect like the unblockable trait mentioned, and one that gives blades condition outside of generic bleed (like poison/burn that mesmer has rare access to now).

Edited August 14, 2021 by NICENIKESHOE.7128

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

11 minutes ago, NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

There needs to be a GM trait that makes bladesong blades unblockable so it can't be reflected. (With probably trade-off like 15%-25% damage reduction in pvp/wvw).

 

I don't know if blades are considered projectiles. There's nothing on the tooltip so I assumed they aren't.

[Leonidrex.5649]

27 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I don't know if blades are considered projectiles. There's nothing on the tooltip so I assumed they aren't.

projectiles dont say that they are projectiles in tooltip, on the other hand it says that they " pierce " and pierce might suggest being a projectile... There is a high chance even the elite can be reflected -.-

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 minute ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

projectiles dont say that they are projectiles in tooltip, on the other hand it says that they " pierce " and pierce might suggest being a projectile... There is a high chance even the elite can be reflected -.-

Projectiles usually say  "Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile"

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Projectiles usually say  "Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile"

not really, on guard scepter autos reflect and dont have finisher, torch 4 also reflects and doesnt have a finisher.
GS 4 on mesmer doesnt have a finisher, it reflects and says " pierces " which leaves me to believe we might be kittened

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just now, Leonidrex.5649 said:

not really, on guard scepter autos reflect and dont have finisher, torch 4 also reflects and doesnt have a finisher.
GS 4 on mesmer doesnt have a finisher, it reflects and says " pierces " which leaves me to believe we might be kittened

We'll see in some days.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

If stored blades count as active clones then that would be sick. Ether feast would have a base heal of 8760 at max blade stacks. Kinda nutty

[Zoser.7245]

2 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

If stored blades count as active clones then that would be sick. Ether feast would have a base heal of 8760 at max blade stacks. Kinda nutty

 If you look, for example, at the Virtuoso's F3 skill,  the tooltip/description has 1/2s  daze base duration.  The core mesmer F3 has 1s.  If you have 3 clones  3x1 = 3s  With 5 blades if we want to balance it...  (LOL)    3s/5 = 0.6s  that is basically the duration for each blade stacked.

 

If they have done it. I'm sure that they'll do the same with other skills and traits they want to keep controlled. And if they forgot some, the nerf bat will act sooner or later, they still have months to do it  🤣

 

Anyways it will be interesting test how the skills and traits related to clones and illusions interact.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[glenndevis.8327]

Traits look a bit eh.

The one theme i'm a fan of is the blocking/aegis focused traits.

I like the idea of successfully dodging & getting fury, quickness ,damage and a blade.

The one thing I think feels off is that the aegis from Bladeturn Refrain only happens AFTER the cast is finished rather than getting aegis at the start of the cast.

 

The rest of the traits  seem a  bit.... eh. Not a fan of having a condi traitline. If we want condi we can play Mirage.

Would have liked to see what more power options we could get with a spec that at first seemed to be more power focused.