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Rather confused about the Charr


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On 8/23/2021 at 5:12 AM, Dante.1763 said:

Keep in mind of course that pretty much the whole area to the east of the Citadel is Charr Territory.

 

10 hours ago, Fipmip.7219 said:

do charr really own everything east of elona? 

 

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah, claiming that they own the entire east of the continent is an exaggeration.

 

To add my hat into the map debate.

 

If we take the in-game map art of Tyira, and overlay it onto the world map given to us back in LWS2, most of the locations in Tyira(Frostgorge, Orr,  Janthir, the north/south costs of the Magumma, the Ring of Fire etc) all match up when scaling the map. Once you get into Elona, and the west past Ascalon, it appears that Anet compressed those regions of the world because Elona was too big/wide on the world map. Whereas in-game its more accurate to its GW1 size. Taking this distortion into account, the in-game map actually covers out to the white boxed area of the world map, as seen in the image below.

 

If we assume that the Ash and Blood Legions have similar territories to what Iron does in Ascalon, their territory would only go out to the blue line, which represents where their territory would end on the world map(since that part is under the in-game map and can't be seen). Taking into account scouting parties and the like past their controlled territory, Charr knowledge of the Tyiran supercontinet would likely stop around its midpoint. The entire eastern half would be unknown to them.

 

World map + charr territory image

https://i.imgur.com/bhbMX1x.png

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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The Charr ending centuries of hostilities after the Asura show up? Coincidence? I think not! They recognize their superiors.

Charr wanted to avoid what happened to Germany in World War II.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Queen Jennah also proposed the peace treaty with the charr, and sent Dougal and company off to Ascalon City ruins to retrieve the Claw of the Khan-Ur as a peace

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Just because we don't know what's out there, doesn't mean there's nothing out there and that we can safely assume the charr just control a region that's twice as large as the currently playable zone and which represents about half of the land area of the entire planet. 

 

Tyria seems to have a wide range of sapient races. Every time we've first visited a new part of the world, in fact, we've encountered new sapient races that we hadn't seen before, or at the very least a new variant of an existing race. Chances are high that the charr at least have competition in the east.

While this is true, its also somewhat not true.

 

If we look at Cantha for instance. Before humanity's arrival there only two truly intelligence races in Cantha. Those being the Naga, and Tengu(Wardens are implied to be transformed human druids) The Naga originally lived in the Jade Sea, and while we don't know the original territory of the Tengu, its stated that conflict with the Tengu only started rising after the Jade Wind forced more habitation of Shing Jea. Implying that is where they mostly were. This would make some sense given that most of the districts of Kaineng we visit in GW1 have lore dating them to before the Jade wind(just not as built up) Humans would have been unlikely to develop that much if it was heavily inhabited by Tengu. This means that the vast majority of the Canthan continent was either barely inhabited, or totally uninhabited. Which explains how humanity was able to very quickly take it over.

 

Elona is in pretty much the same state. The Djinn don't typically build things of their own, instead living in whatever human made buildings they are bound to. Centaurs are naturally tribal/quasi nomadic, and don't really build cities of their own. And the Harpies and Hylek are treated as more recent invaders from Dzalana. This means that, much like Cantha, the majority of Elona as we know it was pretty much uninhabited, or barely inhabited, when humans arrived. Which would explain the Primeval Dynasty's ability to quickly conquer most of Elona, and all the way up to the Tomb of Primeval Kings in the northern Crystal Desert(then the Crystal Sea)

 

Even looking at Tyria. Orr had no known intelligent species before human arrival. Ascalon had the traditionally very scattered/tribal grawl. The Maguuma had some centaurs living on its outskirts near the Krytan border, but was otherwise uninhabited by any intelligent species(seemingly all the way to its western coast that humanity explored too) Really only the Shiverpeaks, with the Dwarves, Jotun, Dredge, and Norn, and the Kryta/Woodland Cascades area, with its Tengu and Centaurs, had any sort of notable habitation.

 

Due to the Dragons successfully consuming most of the world during the last dragon rise, most of the world is largely uninhabited, or very sparsely inhabited. Taking this scattering of intelligent races into account, the eastern part of Tyria likely only has maybe 6-7 small areas where intelligent life actually resides. With the majority of it being uninhabited wilderness.

 

I find it very likely the Charr have no real competition out east, only running into the occasional grawl-like tribal group.  Their war machine only stopped due to supply line limitations from their technological level, and the need to focus most of their forces in Ascalon due to the number of threats there. The fact that the Charr have never mentioned/treated anything out east with any real importance would support this.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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1 minute ago, adormtil.1605 said:

Why tried and at where fairly succesful in expanding south west? If they have no resistance in the east?

We have no solid evidence on where the Charr's origin point is. their eastern border very well may be east of where they started, and they expanded out in all directions.

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1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

We have no solid evidence on where the Charr's origin point is. their eastern border very well may be east of where they started, and they expanded out in all directions.

Yeah but something is weird about that. Like does iron and flame have the smallest territory then and the others are mega huge?

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3 hours ago, adormtil.1605 said:

Yeah but something is weird about that. Like does iron and flame have the smallest territory then and the others are mega huge?

They are likely all equal size, or roughly so.

 

If the "Blood Legion Homelands", which was called the Charr Homelands back in GW1, really is the origin place of the Charr, we know from EOTN that just to the north are the Shiverpeaks, which form a massive shield preventing them from going much further north(not to mention this area is close to the arctic circle as is, there wouldn't be much to find to the north anyways). The Shiverpeaks are also to the west, and serve as a natural barrier in that direction. And, while not visible on the map in-game, the art file shows lakes out to the east that would be just about the perfect stopping point if we assume the Blood Legion lands are the same size as Iron.

 

So, based on the assumption that the now Blood Legion lands were their homelands, they would have expanded north and west until they hit the Shiverpeaks, east until the ran into a large series of inland lakes, and then south until they ran into the Forgotten in the southern Blazeridge Mountains.

 

Something like this

https://i.imgur.com/zLGTMPX.jpg

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They are likely all equal size, or roughly so.

.....

Something like this

https://i.imgur.com/zLGTMPX.jpg

 

That's pretty much how I see it as well. Barring the possibility that one of the Legions' territories is just that much resource-denser than the rest, I presume their territories would be of roughly equal size and significance. Otherwise it would be difficult to imagine that the non-Flame Legions see and treat each other as peer organizations.

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8 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

While this is true, its also somewhat not true.

 

If we look at Cantha for instance. Before humanity's arrival there only two truly intelligence races in Cantha. Those being the Naga, and Tengu(Wardens are implied to be transformed human druids) The Naga originally lived in the Jade Sea, and while we don't know the original territory of the Tengu, its stated that conflict with the Tengu only started rising after the Jade Wind forced more habitation of Shing Jea. Implying that is where they mostly were. This would make some sense given that most of the districts of Kaineng we visit in GW1 have lore dating them to before the Jade wind(just not as built up) Humans would have been unlikely to develop that much if it was heavily inhabited by Tengu. This means that the vast majority of the Canthan continent was either barely inhabited, or totally uninhabited. Which explains how humanity was able to very quickly take it over.

 

Elona is in pretty much the same state. The Djinn don't typically build things of their own, instead living in whatever human made buildings they are bound to. Centaurs are naturally tribal/quasi nomadic, and don't really build cities of their own. And the Harpies and Hylek are treated as more recent invaders from Dzalana. This means that, much like Cantha, the majority of Elona as we know it was pretty much uninhabited, or barely inhabited, when humans arrived. Which would explain the Primeval Dynasty's ability to quickly conquer most of Elona, and all the way up to the Tomb of Primeval Kings in the northern Crystal Desert(then the Crystal Sea)

 

Even looking at Tyria. Orr had no known intelligent species before human arrival. Ascalon had the traditionally very scattered/tribal grawl. The Maguuma had some centaurs living on its outskirts near the Krytan border, but was otherwise uninhabited by any intelligent species(seemingly all the way to its western coast that humanity explored too) Really only the Shiverpeaks, with the Dwarves, Jotun, Dredge, and Norn, and the Kryta/Woodland Cascades area, with its Tengu and Centaurs, had any sort of notable habitation.

 

Due to the Dragons successfully consuming most of the world during the last dragon rise, most of the world is largely uninhabited, or very sparsely inhabited. Taking this scattering of intelligent races into account, the eastern part of Tyria likely only has maybe 6-7 small areas where intelligent life actually resides. With the majority of it being uninhabited wilderness.

 

I find it very likely the Charr have no real competition out east, only running into the occasional grawl-like tribal group.  Their war machine only stopped due to supply line limitations from their technological level, and the need to focus most of their forces in Ascalon due to the number of threats there. The fact that the Charr have never mentioned/treated anything out east with any real importance would support this.

In Cantha's case, what about the Wardens? Some have theorised that they might be former humans, but that's not something we know for sure. You're also being fairly focused on tool-users roughly the same size as humans. What about the yeti? Not as smart as the playable races, but they do appear to have been sapient. Kirin and dragons definitely are (or were before being driven mad by the Jade Wind).

 

In Elona, I'm going to throw a 'citation needed' at the assertion that harpies and heket have only been invading since after human settlement of Elona. They've penetrated pretty deeply for having the point of origin you claim. They're strong there in GW1, yes - but this is likely a matter of being a region that humans haven't settled and pushed them to the margins of. Elona also had giants, which were intelligent enough to tame minotaurs. Now, Elona being arid probably reduces the variety of what's there, but including djinn and centaurs, that makes for about five non-human intelligent species (six if you note that Istani skale showed signs of having religion in the Keys).

 

Given the variety of sapients in the regions we've explored, I find the assertion that eastern Tyria was just terra nullis for the charr to expand into with no resistance difficult to believe.

 

On that note, though, I do find it interesting that while the Ecology of the Charr implies that the charr originated east of the Blazeridge, three out of four legions have their primary claimed territories to the west, and the remainder is the one that seems to have habits and traditions compatible with a nomadic lifestyle. Which implies that there's something making the Ascalonian valley more desirable than whatever's east of the Blazeridge.

 

(Also, with respect to Elona being smaller on the map relative to 'core Tyria' in-game, this may be a map projection issue. Which would imply that the northern and southern regions are smaller than the map depicts.)

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On 8/24/2021 at 11:08 AM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Meanwhile: Inquest is still mentioned to be going considerably well, even with the heavy losses they sustained during LWS4, Ghosts of Ascalon - still a threat - we didn't hear much of the nightmare court since hot to be fair - but that storyline was not officially concluded, so they are not out of the picture just yet, You could argue that sons of svanir should fall apart over time since Jormag's death, but untill they are addressed as fully gone they are still there.

 

Regarding the Sons of Svanir, some of the updated ambient dialogue from this year's Dragon Bash seems to suggest that their cult is done for.

 

Local: Jormag, and the Sons, are gone, and that's a good thing. (Source)

 

Whether this means the Sons disbanded or were wiped out during the excursions of the Frost Legion remains unknown. I'd like this local's claim to be a bit of hyberbole and some of the cultists surviving out there while having an existential crisis in the aftermath of the Dragonstorm, but it's more likely that they won't be referenced again anytime soon unless the story returns to norn focused stuff in the far future.

 

On 8/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, Dante.1763 said:

Meanwhile the Charr only really have one foe now: the ghosts. Renegades are dealt with, ebonhawke has a treaty, and well Flame(avoiding spoilers). Leaving them with vast amounts of land to recover their losses from the civil war. Humans dont really have that luxury.

 

As recently as the events of the Ghosts of Ascalon set in 1324 AE, Almorra mentioned the ogre expansion being a notable threat to the charr as the ogres kept pouring down to Ascalon from the Blazeridge Mountains. While several ogres fell victims to the invading Branded, the charr wiped out hostile tribes in core Iron Legion zones, and some ogres like Lagula's tribe joined the Pact for some time, ogres are tenacious so they'd no doubt continue being a threat--perhaps not as great as the Branded or the Foefire ghosts were, but still more significant than the grawl.

 

With what's happened since with the gradual extermination of the Branded and purification of the Dragonbrand, perhaps there can be tentative armistice between charr and ogres in the future to find a solution that benefits both parties and ceases hostilities between them.

 

While the charr Renegade threat has been mostly dealt with in The Icebrood Saga, Malice's intel did reveal something troubling during "Prologue: Bound by Blood": the human Separatists have had a resurgence lately despite the fall of their White Mantle backers and the loss of their treasury funding their campaign.

 

Malice Swordshadow: We have noticed a resurgence of Renegade and Separatist activity, though. They're getting...bolder. I don't like it. (Source)

 

Even if Crecia's later actions at Ebonhawke warmed the minds of some Ebonhawke people to the charr, the treacherous actions of the Dominion no doubt fueled Separatists' fire and benefited their propaganda. The fact that the Separatists are still a threat after everything that happened in Kryta during the war there suggests to me that 1) there are still powerful enough human individuals or cliques who are willing to support the Separatist cause, and 2) the Separatists have gained a new, charismatic leader who knows which strings to pull to gain more recruits. And the Seps' paranoia has some justification as we've learned from Drizzlewood Coast ambient dialogue that several allied charr there view the truce with humanity a temporary one and they even openly threatened their human allies. Smodur was right that poison runs deep within the charr and rooting out such beliefs will be the hardest struggle the charr ever face. It would be nice if the issue of this lingering distrust will be addressed someday in the future via the rise of Mia Kindleshot's popular but so far unseen political rival, the human-hating Iron Tribune Fume Brighteye, who would hopefully separate her ideology from the Dominion's crusade by only being anti-human while accepting every other race as charr allies.

 

I imagine/hope that the Separatist resurgence issue and Fume's ascendancy in charr politics could be tied to the revenge of King Adelbern and the Foefire ghosts who might've been empowered by all the released magic from latest events. If Adelbern has used his recent seclusion to finally figure out how to operate the Golem's Eye from Ghosts of Ascalon and created an evolved version of the nigh indestructible Tomb Guardian, he and his empowered ghosts could finally launch a true invasion of the surface which dwarfs even the charr prologue's Battle of Smokestead. The plot could tie in the need to end the curse for good, the necessity of locating the Krytan royal locket and using its diminished magic (thanks, Mordremoth!) to figure out the identity of the heir, whether Jennah can be involved in it too or not, and a potential redemption story for Adelbern and Barradin if the cleansing ritual removes their madness and if we can find a means (Rurik's ghost?) to convince Adelbern to have a change of heart to face a bigger threat in his last, heroic act to save both humans and charr from destruction. An intriguing twist could be to reveal the new charismatic Separatist leader as the prophesied heir, and thus forcing the Commander to realize that this is the one enemy they can't just beat to submission or kill but they need to win over so the heir can fulfill the prophecy, save both races, and offer salvation to the ghosts before all is lost.

 

On 8/24/2021 at 12:32 PM, Dante.1763 said:

And an edit: we also have forgotten the "ghostbore" weaponry from the story that the PC invented, amd which was getting moved to production(pc can chose between a massive cannon like we see all over or deployabe turrets, i see no reason why it wouldnt expand to both after some time.) It prevents the ghosts from reforming as "fast" as they did. We dont know how long it takes lore wise for that, but it was a huge deal.

i agree that they dont own most of the continent, just whats east and north of the current territory in game, which..still gives them a sizeable kingdom far surpassing DR, and well, they can probably recover losses faster than any other species.

Keep in mind we also dont know how much theyve progressed. The old maps dont get updated(not a bad thing mind for gameplay, but it leaves lore questions)and the brand is no more, meaning they could easily reclaim at least 4 or 5 villages in decent shape, and another 2-3 needing rebuilt.

It would be nice if Anet wrote out a lore book for each map, doing a before and after.

Its proabably safe to say that also extends to the human Kingdom, the lands to the direct west and north of DR is also probably under Human control, we just havent been there yet, and who knows how controlled it is.

 

If anything the Norn and Asura are the most reduced in the current time, but with Jormag and primordous dying they can perhaps move to recover their own lands finally.

 

And for the sylvari, while the nightmare court wasnt officially ended its probably safe to say its no more. Their leadership all got killed in the dungeon paths(including the now cut path) which showed that fairly well. Faolin was one of the few who escaped that place and she got murderfied in HOT.

 

Interestingly an event in Plains of Ashford also revealed that the Iron Legion's Jenk Cutspecter has devised a kind of Ghostbusters type of ghost containment unit where they can imprison the ghosts in to prevent them from reforming. While that device is far from perfect as it can be damaged to release the ghosts within, the charr might be able to use the minds of Priory, asura, and other Pact individuals to finetune that device to make it more durable, thus helping with containing the ghost threat until the prophesied heir uses King Adelbern's crown (and hopefully both Sohothin and the repaired Magdaer) to end the ghost threat for good.

 

As for the Nightmare Court, we did meet Duchess Chrysanthea who was willing to work alongside the Pact against a mutual enemy. While Chrysanthea's morality is in question given her evil laugh and teasing the Commander, I could see her as the Nightmare Court's more morally grey version of Efram, leading a splinter group vying for the position of power against other competing dukes/duchesses. It could lead to an interesting subplot where the Commander has to decide which courtier candidate to back up in order to help determine what path the court as a whole takes. The events in the Heart of Maguuma would've no doubt shaken the court to the core, but we could see a potential redemption story for them if this narrative also explored the origins of Dream and Nightmare and why Nightmare twists (seemingly irreversibly...at least for now) the personalities of the sylvari it enthralls and why both Dream and Nightmare are opposed to the Elder Dragons via their Wyld and Dark Hunts. This plot could also add in Malyck to reveal why he and his people (if they survived) where absent during the Maguuma campaign, and possibly introduce us to one of the two still missing, as of yet unnamed Firstborn in case this Firstborn has met with Malyck rather than visiting the Grove in the following years. 🙂

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My gut feeling is that the existential crisis of the Sons of Svanir is likely to be fatal. A significant part of their dogma came from the assertion that Dragon was just more powerful than everything else combined - Dragon being destroyed pretty much collapses that. There might be some holdouts sticking to a particularly potent champion, but that just wouldn't have the same draw factor.

 

Whether the surviving Sons can reintegrate, though, is another question. Even with the norn philosophy of judging people as individuals rather than which group(s) they belong to, some may have done too much to be forgiven. There could also be some mileage in asking just why so many young norn men choose to effectively outcast themselves, and whether Jormag's death will simply cause them to seek some other alternative patron. It would also be interesting to see how any attempt at reintegration goes - especially for those Svanir that lost most of their intelligence.

 

That said, the Shiverpeaks are still likely to remain dangerous even with the Sons gone due to, well, everything else and the fact that the norn don't have much interest in pacifying territory that isn't close to Hoelbrak.

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47 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

At this point the Inquest is the only racial enemy faction I would consider to be a credible threat.

The Nightmare Court might still be. Chrysanthea was willing to cooperate against Mordremoth, but we don't know what her motivations are otherwise, or how much control she has over the Court as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised to see them pop up as antagonists again. Especially if they do succeed in finding their own Tree.

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On 8/29/2021 at 4:35 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

My gut feeling is that the existential crisis of the Sons of Svanir is likely to be fatal. A significant part of their dogma came from the assertion that Dragon was just more powerful than everything else combined - Dragon being destroyed pretty much collapses that. There might be some holdouts sticking to a particularly potent champion, but that just wouldn't have the same draw factor.

 

Whether the surviving Sons can reintegrate, though, is another question. Even with the norn philosophy of judging people as individuals rather than which group(s) they belong to, some may have done too much to be forgiven. There could also be some mileage in asking just why so many young norn men choose to effectively outcast themselves, and whether Jormag's death will simply cause them to seek some other alternative patron. It would also be interesting to see how any attempt at reintegration goes - especially for those Svanir that lost most of their intelligence.

 

That said, the Shiverpeaks are still likely to remain dangerous even with the Sons gone due to, well, everything else and the fact that the norn don't have much interest in pacifying territory that isn't close to Hoelbrak.

 

While the Sons seem to be done for, I would like the idea that some of them reconsidered their views about women's flaws and came to believe that Aurene, despite being a "girly" dragon, was the greatest predator on Tyria and thus the true Dragon worth revering since Aurene's actions had led to the downfall of three Elder Dragons, a lich king, and a Spirit of Action called Balthazar. Imagine if the Sons remained misguided and violent but now they'd actually congregate to Aurene and shout "Praise Dragon!" while killing people in her name. It could lead to interesting story possibilities as we now have to weigh the consequences of Aurene's growing influence over Tyria that attracts violent fanatics to her and whether she continues with her noninterference policy with mortals or if she'll stomp her foot down and tell the fanatics to stop acting violently and act more like the protective Crystal Blooms.

 

I wish the saga had lasted longer so we could've seen the all-female norn cult for Jormag, whether named Daughters of Dragon or something like that, as such a possibility was teased during a conversation between a Son of Svanir and a female norn who had claimed to have heard Jormag's call and wanted to join the dragon cult during Dragon Bash. Perhaps we could see these power-craving violent female norn establish their own cult regardless to "serve" Aurene as the Sons would potentially do and thus cause just as much trouble as their male counterparts. 🙂

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On 8/29/2021 at 5:18 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

The Nightmare Court might still be. Chrysanthea was willing to cooperate against Mordremoth, but we don't know what her motivations are otherwise, or how much control she has over the Court as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised to see them pop up as antagonists again. Especially if they do succeed in finding their own Tree.

Ehh.The Sylvari were never a large race, and the Nightmare court only made up a fraction of that. With all the forces they lost in our attacks on their various outposts in the open world, our initial purge of Twilight arbor to push out Faolin, our multiple returns in the explorable paths, the failed alliance with the Krait, our return to Twilight Arbor in the Aetherblade path, and the forces they lost to Mordrmeoth's mind control, the timespan needed for the Court ot rebuilt itself into anything resembling a threat would be faro outside the game's timeframe IMO.

6 hours ago, Kossage.9072 said:

I wish the saga had lasted longer so we could've seen the all-female norn cult for Jormag, whether named Daughters of Dragon or something like that, as such a possibility was teased during a conversation between a Son of Svanir and a female norn who had claimed to have heard Jormag's call and wanted to join the dragon cult during Dragon Bash. Perhaps we could see these power-craving violent female norn establish their own cult regardless to "serve" Aurene as the Sons would potentially do and thus cause just as much trouble as their male counterparts. 🙂

I suspect the heavy Norn focus in the IBS was over by the time of Jormag Rising. Chapters 5/6 of IBS would have likely focused on the Centaurs(while continuing Braham's prophecy story) with 7/8 having us fight off again the Dragons in a larger Dragontstrom meta fight. And looking at Arah, Dragon's Stand, and Dragonfall, they typically don't introduce much in the way of new plot elements, they just wrap up what we already know. So Chapters 7/8 probably would have been as story focused as 5/6 would have been. I don't see them fitting in some female focused Jormag cult in there.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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ArenaNet have claimed in the past that the populations of the playable races were roughly similar (presumably not including Elonians and Canthans in the human total). I don't really believe them, but the sylvari population might be higher than you'd think.

 

More significantly, ArenaNet has a habit of bringing back enemies that the player base thought were broken, and the Nightmare Court is explicitly still around. So I wouldn't count them out entirely. Especially if they find another source of recruits like Malyck's tree. 

 

After all, with the number of major bases the Inquest have had destroyed, you'd think they'd be a spent force too, but they keep popping up. Last time we heard about the Nightmare Court was HoT, and we have no information on how much they lost to Mordemoth apart from Faolain herself. The Toxic Alliance was also only a splinter group. So I'm not going to count them out until we get something more solid than 'they've taken lots of casualties'.

 

Particularly since, when it comes to timeframes, Heart of Thorns was, what, 2015? Six years ago now, when the sylvari as a race have only been around for about thirty-four. So running the numbers and assuming the same rate of recruitment, the Nightmare Court could have been reduced to the size it was when it first formed, and it would now be back up toabout a quarter of the size it was on launch. Which is certainly a reduced threat, but not something I think could be written off entirely. I don't think we can make statements like 'it'd take them more time than the scope of the game to recover' about a faction of a race that went from nothing to one of Tyria's major races in less than three decades.

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12 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

ArenaNet have claimed in the past that the populations of the playable races were roughly similar (presumably not including Elonians and Canthans in the human total). I don't really believe them, but the sylvari population might be higher than you'd think.

 

More significantly, ArenaNet has a habit of bringing back enemies that the player base thought were broken, and the Nightmare Court is explicitly still around. So I wouldn't count them out entirely. Especially if they find another source of recruits like Malyck's tree. 

 

After all, with the number of major bases the Inquest have had destroyed, you'd think they'd be a spent force too, but they keep popping up. Last time we heard about the Nightmare Court was HoT, and we have no information on how much they lost to Mordemoth apart from Faolain herself. The Toxic Alliance was also only a splinter group. So I'm not going to count them out until we get something more solid than 'they've taken lots of casualties'.

 

Particularly since, when it comes to timeframes, Heart of Thorns was, what, 2015? Six years ago now, when the sylvari as a race have only been around for about thirty-four. So running the numbers and assuming the same rate of recruitment, the Nightmare Court could have been reduced to the size it was when it first formed, and it would now be back up toabout a quarter of the size it was on launch. Which is certainly a reduced threat, but not something I think could be written off entirely. I don't think we can make statements like 'it'd take them more time than the scope of the game to recover' about a faction of a race that went from nothing to one of Tyria's major races in less than three decades.

Especially if that old lore snippet about the numbers of new sylvari that end up turning to the Nightmare supposedly increasing over time still holds.

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1 hour ago, DaZeeHero.5210 said:

What non humans see as certain extinction in the near future humans see as a temporary setback. that's what people who refuse to play or understand fictional humans will never understand.

The game's story is well past that implication imo, especially now that more than just Kryta has been shown to still exist.

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Yeah but the human haters will ignore any of that evidence.

Why do people hate on fictional humans? Humans suck enough in real life, let us be awesome in fiction at least, it's an escape after all.

 

I mean humans could be awesome in real life but most have chosen not to be. which is just huge dissapointment hence desire to escape into a world where humans can choose to be awesome and not awful.

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3 hours ago, DaZeeHero.5210 said:

I'm going to point out the real possibility that a human faction from the human true homeworld could pose a bigger threat than anything except maybe the dragons combined.

 

Who knows how much they advanced in millennia.

As far as we know the original human homeworld was rendered uninhabitable, which is why the 6 gods brought humanity to Tyria in the first place.

It wasn't "we left to explore some new world!" it was "we had to leave because DOOM!"

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 9/11/2021 at 7:27 PM, Kossage.9072 said:

 

While the Sons seem to be done for, I would like the idea that some of them reconsidered their views about women's flaws and came to believe that Aurene, despite being a "girly" dragon, was the greatest predator on Tyria and thus the true Dragon worth revering since Aurene's actions had led to the downfall of three Elder Dragons, a lich king, and a Spirit of Action called Balthazar. Imagine if the Sons remained misguided and violent but now they'd actually congregate to Aurene and shout "Praise Dragon!" while killing people in her name. It could lead to interesting story possibilities as we now have to weigh the consequences of Aurene's growing influence over Tyria that attracts violent fanatics to her and whether she continues with her noninterference policy with mortals or if she'll stomp her foot down and tell the fanatics to stop acting violently and act more like the protective Crystal Blooms.

 

This sounds pretty interesting 🙂 

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On 8/13/2021 at 2:15 PM, Morlu.8604 said:

Hey all,

 

Just started the game, and watched a brief youtube video behind the lore of GW1/bit of 2.

 

Why are the humans and charr allies? Is it because of a dragon that they decided to end a feud? 

I would imagine centuries of warfare was hard to just "forget" about. 

Technically speaking the peace treaty between the Humans and Charr only happened very recently to the time period the core game/Personal story starts in. 

Lore wise, its focused around the Dragon threats, yes, but I think a lot of it boils down to abra-cadabra new playable race for GW2 vs GW1 and we can't have the 5 playable races warring each other now can we.

On 8/13/2021 at 2:40 PM, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Charr wanted to avoid what happened to Germany in World War II.

Listen, Charr...you don't get to be a country no more on account of you keep attacking.....THE WORLD.

Edited by Faridah.8431
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