These elixirs kinda suck

[Tobias.8632]

No one is going to take an entire utility slot for 5 seconds of quickness.  I'd recommend replacing the swiftness on elixir of anguish with superspeed.

The healing amount of elixir of promise is laughable, you lose as much health from the blight as you gain from the healing, and vigor isn't that strong. I can't see anyone ever taking this over the four other meta heal skills on core necro alone.

Elixir of risk... I guess might see some use in solo open world pve? I think most people will probably take other utilities and then rely on shroud skill 1 to generate might like reaper does.

Elixir of bliss is actually pretty great, a utility version of consume conditions and some much needed LF generation for this spec.

The elite skill looks usable I guess, but it seems more geared towards pvp where it has to compete with the dominant oppression machine that is lich form, and in pve you have the absolute monster that is plaguelands.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Unless they do massive buffs to Elixir of Promise, it's outright unusable.  Less than 2k heal?  Seriously?  And as you pointed out, that's completely undone by the lowering of the max health.

[Tobias.8632]

Just had another thought that adding 10 seconds of regen to elixir of promise would be a great fix.

 

Also, it's really dumb that your primary method of stacking blight outside of shroud is through elixirs, and in order to take the elixir recharge trait, you pass on both the traits that make blight benefit you in any way.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Tobias.8632

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

1 hour ago, Tobias.8632 said:

Just had another thought that adding 10 seconds of regen to elixir of promise would be a great fix.

 

Also, it's really dumb that your primary method of stacking blight outside of shroud is through elixirs, and in order to take the elixir recharge trait, you pass on both the traits that make blight benefit you in any way.

I feel like there should be just one trait for elixirs right now.  I may change my mind after playing some Harbinger, but condensing both Elixir traits into one at Master tier and introducing a third way for us to benefit from Blight (boon duration/stack?) may be better.

[azarhal.3086]

14 hours ago, Tobias.8632 said:

I guess might see some use in solo open world pve?

 

I would take Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor and Well of Power over any of them. They are better (baseline) aoe buff on other classes with similar effect and cooldowns and zero drawbacks.

 

On top of it, if you pick Vile Vials to reduce their cooldowns you gain nothing form stacking Blight except lower max health which is risk with zero rewards.

Edited August 14, 2021 by azarhal.3086

[susana.7814]

3 hours ago, Tobias.8632 said:

No one is going to take an entire utility slot for 5 seconds of quickness.  I'd recommend replacing the swiftness on elixir of anguish with superspeed.

The healing amount of elixir of promise is laughable, you lose as much health from the blight as you gain from the healing, and vigor isn't that strong. I can't see anyone ever taking this over the four other meta heal skills on core necro alone.

Elixir of risk... I guess might see some use in solo open world pve? I think most people will probably take other utilities and then rely on shroud skill 1 to generate might like reaper does.

Elixir of bliss is actually pretty great, a utility version of consume conditions and some much needed LF generation for this spec.

The elite skill looks usable I guess, but it seems more geared towards pvp where it has to compete with the dominant oppression machine that is lich form, and in pve you have the absolute monster that is plaguelands.

That utility for quickness is much better than you realize, with traits it's gonna be possible to give 5 people perma quickness once you build into it since u also get it off elite and it pulses quickness when ur in harbinger shroud.  It's going to be used. 

Yeah the heal kinda sucks tho. 

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Kinda wish the elixirs were damaging elixirs like reaper has damaging shouts. The reason reaper shouts are not used is there is no synergy with the rest of the build (life steal is an awful synergy). I like the blight traits, but I can not figure out how to access blight. Maybe the heal skill, but that is it. Blood is Power, Epi, Signet of Undeath and Plague lands will remain the go to skills unless serious nerfs happen.

Unfortunately the systems team can not make decent utility skills for necro, reaper had rise(until it was nerfed into the ground), and scourge had sand portal, everything else is trash. When I look at mesmer and warrior, when they take an elite spec, they fill their bars with at least 2 of the exclusive skills. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Shadowmoon.7986

[Infusion.7149]

The only standout is the quickness elixir but if you're building for quickness share then 5s with 25 cooldown isn't looking good. The pulsing AoE quickness in shroud has more potential.

[susana.7814]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The only standout is the quickness elixir but if you're building for quickness share then 5s with 25 cooldown isn't looking good. The pulsing AoE quickness in shroud has more potential.

Ideally in a support build you'll use both

[susana.7814]

4 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Kinda wish the elixirs were damaging elixirs like reaper has damaging shouts. The reason reaper shouts are not used is there is no synergy with the rest of the build (life steal is an awful synergy). I like the blight traits, but I can not figure out how to access blight. Maybe the heal skill, but that is it. Blood is Power, Epi, Signet of Undeath and Plague lands will remain the go to skills unless serious nerfs happen.

Unfortunately the systems team can not make decent utility skills for necro, reaper had rise(until it was nerfed into the ground), and scourge had sand portal, everything else is trash. When I look at mesmer and warrior, when they take an elite spec, they fill their bars with at least 2 of the exclusive skills. 

You gain blight by either entering harbinger shroud, or by drinking elixers.

[felincyriac.5981]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The only standout is the quickness elixir but if you're building for quickness share then 5s with 25 cooldown isn't looking good. The pulsing AoE quickness in shroud has more potential.

It's just a worse elixir U and you loose 10% of your hp lmao

[Rym.1469]

Vile Vials could increase duration of non-DoT conditions based on Blight and maybe Blind instead of Slow.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Rym.1469

[Dadnir.5038]

If they allow you to keep up the blight, you'll probably take as much of them as you need. I think it's their main point, the boons being the cherry on top of the pie. The main point of the spec is that you want to have as much blight on you as possible.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Their icons...UGH.

This is a necro spec, can they keep it necro - themed? Like a more complex, jade looking bottle wrapped in a voo-doo looking string with some feathers attached? Shape wise think something like obsidian shards but hollowed to be a flask and with green tint rather than brown (jade). The end color of each bottle (and shape) can vary depending on liquid inside, but at least try to make it look necrotic and not some "your first chemistry set" generic vials.

The heal needs to offer more..

I get that being harbringer's healing skill it's the first one (if not only) to be aware of the strong lifeforce regen mechanic, and therefore it's own healing value is adjusted, but if that's the case it should bring something else to the table. For example temporarily doubling the health regen from lifeforce.  Or providing more of it along with temporary incoming damage/condi damage reduction. Over time healing skills should provide higher value from classic burst ones, as they leave you vulnerable to enemy burst even after the cast - a risk/reward balance.

Quickness potion can be pretty nice if there's more to it.


I disagree that no one will take an utility for 5s quickness. Engi's elixir U is one of his best skills, and considering boon uptime vs skill cooldown ratios, harbringer elixir is pretty good. Problem is that it needs to do something else, such as breaking a stun (engi's elixir does this) or providing stealth. The latter would be pretty fair - quickess encourages going ham on offense, while stealth requires you to not attack as not to lose it - it would provide general utility while not making itself OP.

[Asum.4960]

9 hours ago, susana.7814 said:

Ideally in a support build you'll use both

By the current numbers, you'll need both plus 100% Boon Duration to just so gain 100% uptime. 

100% BD means 3 seconds of Quickness every 3 seconds while in Shroud from the GM, and 10 seconds of Quickness every 20 seconds to cover the (presumably) 10 second Shroud Cooldown/LF build up once out of LF/Shroud. 

 

31 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

If they allow you to keep up the blight, you'll probably take as much of them as you need. I think it's their main point, the boons being the cherry on top of the pie. The main point of the spec is that you want to have as much blight on you as possible.

 

I think most of them will see some play, just very sporadically.

Like as DPS in PvE you'll likely only use the Heal Elixier to buffer some Blight while out of Shroud to maintain the Minor Trait Modifiers and to regain some LF. 

As Boon support, you'll likely just use the Quickness one.. and maybe the elite? But I'm really not sure what to think of what seems to be 4-8 seconds of all boons every 60 seconds, or where that's actually practical (outside the next example).

For PvP, I imagine it's going to be the Cleanse and Stunbreak Elixiers - maybe Sharing a Traited elite for a teamfight/stealth ambush cheese? It's odd that PvP will likely see the most Elixier play, where you probably want to manage low to medium Blight more than not.

Tbh, I already feel like the Might and Fury one as well as the Elite need reworks as they are either useless/underwhelming or promote unhealthy gameplay.

 

The "Heal" skill is just gain 5% damage (if Traited) and 10% LF. And some Vigor, I guess?

 

The Elixiers definitely are miles behind the rest of the Spec in theme, art, efficacy and fun factor.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Asum.4960

[LucianDK.8615]

It will be hard for any support spec to compete with firebrands. They just have a far too large toolkit thanks to the tomes.

[lodjur.1284]

Quickness Elixir is somewhat fine in PvE and probably enables Quickness Harbinger to be a thing

 

5 condis>Lifeforce is fine for WvW/PvP at the cooldown in the video. 

 

Healing one I assume is bugged, 1.9k healing is far far far too low. 5 sec vigor is basically. Nothing. Currently a lot worse than all of the racial heals, not to mention the actual necro heals. Even counting the Lifeforce summoning and instakilling the blood fiend is better. 

 

Maybe the healing skill should consume blight? Would be kinda interesting

 

10 might and fury Elixir is terrible and beyond boring as a utility, arguably one of the least interesting skills in the game. 

 

Stunbreak Elixir is meh, would need like barrier or stability added to it.

 

The elite skill just looks bad, even traited with maxed out boon duration were talking 10/48sec of boons. Which is a lot of investment.

 

Overall the spec is really interesting but the utility skills are very lackluster.

 

Also with 25 sec blight at 2% hp/ stack I have a hard time seeing this viable in WvW, but all skills with blight including the Shroud itself says unique/gamemode so guessing it's either 10-15 sec duration stacks in competitive modes or possibly 1% stack.

 

15-16k health even in full Dire (so giving up expertise entirely) is in fact too low for a spec with no real defensive. In trailblazer or marauder that number drops to roughly 14k.

Edited August 14, 2021 by lodjur.1284

[Obtena.7952]

Personally, I thought "Wow, exactly the spread of skills I want to see in a line" and to be fair, they do the right things for the right reasons ... but they do appear rather bland. They give a very 'made using a template' feel. I think a little more effort would bring them up a notch as I get the feeling that the 'standard' aspect they have indicates a work in progress. 

[LuRkEr.9462]

14 hours ago, Tobias.8632 said:

No one is going to take an entire utility slot for 5 seconds of quickness.  I'd recommend replacing the swiftness on elixir of anguish with superspeed.

The healing amount of elixir of promise is laughable, you lose as much health from the blight as you gain from the healing, and vigor isn't that strong. I can't see anyone ever taking this over the four other meta heal skills on core necro alone.

Elixir of risk... I guess might see some use in solo open world pve? I think most people will probably take other utilities and then rely on shroud skill 1 to generate might like reaper does.

Elixir of bliss is actually pretty great, a utility version of consume conditions and some much needed LF generation for this spec.

The elite skill looks usable I guess, but it seems more geared towards pvp where it has to compete with the dominant oppression machine that is lich form, and in pve you have the absolute monster that is plaguelands.

1. Everyone who runs this as a quickness boon support will 100% take the quickness elixir. 

2. The healing amount is negligible since you heal from shroud. It gives you shroud points though to make up for it.

3.  The elite again is massive amount of boons, boons in this game can change fight out comes. Also in pve it will be used for quickness boon support build.

(also no one called plaguelands an absolute monster, its negligible dps increase)

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

2 hours ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

2. The healing amount is negligible since you heal from shroud. It gives you shroud points though to make up for it.

Summon and sac Blood Fiend.  You get more healing and more life force.

Why "more life force" when both deaths and the elixir are 10%?  Because Blood Fiend doesn't lower your max health and thus life force amount.

The life force drain-to-heal mechanic gets less effective as you get more blight.  From what we saw on the stream, the heal you get is equal to the life force drained each second.  As your max health decreases, so does the drain/second, and therefore the heal/second.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Infusion.7149]

4 hours ago, felincyriac.5981 said:

It's just a worse elixir U and you loose 10% of your hp lmao

You would use it for the boon sharing, there's basically no reason to run it otherwise.

[Vidit.7108]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
But to provide a group with boon support, and crucially quickness, the Necro has to take a huge chunk out of it's hp, AND it won't even have full uptime on it's own?
I get why blight might be a counter to the outgoing damage but how is it worth it to lose 10-20% personal max health for mediocre boon durations?

[anbujackson.9564]

Hey, at least your elixiers combined with the traits are better group support than engineer elixiers. If you are not happy with yours, we could trade. 🙂

 

Seriously though they are just so much better. Quickness scrapper lacks those boons.

[Sigmoid.7082]

42 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

But to provide a group with boon support, and crucially quickness, the Necro has to take a huge chunk out of it's hp, AND it won't even have full uptime on it's own?
 

From my understanding you should be able to maintain it on your own with the shroud trait, the elixirs, and some boon duration.

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, Vidit.7108 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
But to provide a group with boon support, and crucially quickness, the Necro has to take a huge chunk out of it's hp, AND it won't even have full uptime on it's own?
I get why blight might be a counter to the outgoing damage but how is it worth it to lose 10-20% personal max health for mediocre boon durations?

Deathly Haste is 1.5 Seconds of Quickness every 3 seconds, so with 100% Duration it will just so provide AoE Perma Quickness in Shroud. To cover the  Shroud CD, you'll have to use Elixier of Anguish + Twisted Medicine for solo Perma Quickness. 

 

It's imo way too tight and costly, but it's possible. It drops the second anyone has to move out for a mechanic for even just a second if it's during a Deathly Haste tick, and 100% BD is asking a lot (That's either full Plaguedoctor + Firebrand Runes or Full Diviner + for example Runes of the Pack [+ Twisted Medicine conversion]).

(Also Blight goes up to -50% max HP)

Edited August 15, 2021 by Asum.4960