[UPDATED from BETA] Arken's brief overview of the WillBender

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

1 hour ago, Arken.3725 said:

Flash's combo to me, is more useful just for the initial port which is BOTH instant and guaranteed.  The return is just icing on top of the cake.

Hmmm.... it has a cast time so u can't combo it with any other skills. Idk if u meant something else by "instant" xD

[Arken.3725]

11 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Hmmm.... it has a cast time so u can't combo it with any other skills. Idk if u meant something else by "instant" xD

The port is instant, the combo afterwards has the cast-time to land.  

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

3 minutes ago, Arken.3725 said:

The port is instant, the combo afterwards has the cast-time to land.  

Yeah but who cares about instant port lol, u just run JI for that while also being able to do stuff like precast sw4 into JI. 

 

The strikes and the return are the only things of value I see on this skill. If the strikes themselves actually do decent dmg then it could carry the skill, otherwise you'd better be able to move during the strikes to make it actually possible to unlock the chain skill. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Arken.3725]

Just now, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Yeah but who cares about instant port lol, u just run JI for that while also being able to do stuff like precast sw4-->JI. 

 

The strikes and the return are the only things of value I see on this skill. If the strikes themselves actually do decent dmg then it could carry the skill, otherwise you'd better be able to move during the strikes to make it actually possible to unlock the chain skill. 

The tooltip damage was 1310 with around 2000 power?  That's pretty good if you ask me. Plus, it has half the cool down of JI and almost the same range. 

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Just now, Arken.3725 said:

The tooltip damage was 1310 with around 2000 power?  That's pretty good if you ask me. Plus, it has half the cool down of JI and almost the same range. 

It's split per gamemode, so we'll have to wait and see how much of a dmg nerf they do for pvp. The CD might be split as well. The viability of this skill is definitely gonna depend quite a bit on how exactly they split it 😅

[Arken.3725]

3 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

It's split per gamemode, so we'll have to wait and see how much of a dmg nerf they do for pvp. The CD might be split as well. The viability of this skill is definitely gonna depend quite a bit on how exactly they split it 😅

It's still going to be instant. But you're right, there are a lot of factors to consider. 

 

Looking more into the spec, it's not going to have too much crazy, long range access. Most of it is 600 range or less. This spec is still going to be slower than thief and shiro. 

[Lattekahvi.2347]

2 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

@Arcaedus.7290

 

At first I was thinking Zeal to feed fury/resolution for maximum crit-chance but now that I think of it more, Virtue's maybe the better choice for overall sustain and a tiny bit of Resolution access.  

 

IF things remain the way they are, Virtue's will provide SIGNIFICANT sustain given the short cd's of each new virtue.  If you spec into both indomitable courage AND absolute resolution, you'll maintain a serious amount of both protection AND condition clear. 

 

However, given the low access to Aegis now, unscathed contender might never see the light of day for effectiveness.

 

@The Boz.2038

 

Thanks brother, lol.

 

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597

 

Here's more input as I think on it a bit more.

 

Tyrant's Momentum can be a serious competitor because it applies to ANY virtue proc whereas Phoenix Protocol only works with Resolve and Deathless Courage only works with.....Courage.

 

Flash's combo to me, is more useful just for the initial port which is BOTH instant and guaranteed.  The return is just icing on top of the cake.

i think they said that virtue passives are gone so absolute resolve only gives condi removal, inspiring virtue could atleast have some synergy along with unscathed contender provided that you keep f3 with aegis

EDIT: also realised that if willbenders skills will have leap finishers you can easily keep your resolution up with light auras so no zeal needed

Edited August 15, 2021 by Lattekahvi.2347

[Arken.3725]

Yeah with the removal of the passive access makes this spec a bit less viable in terms of access to resolution from Zeal.  However, with the shorter cd's and potential access to alacrity, this could be shored up.

[Lattekahvi.2347]

so my build would probably be:
radiance 2-3-3
virtues  1-1-3
willbender 1-3-2

 

though im total noob so this might be bad build

[Arken.3725]

1 minute ago, Lattekahvi.2347 said:

so my build would probably be:
radiance 2-3-3
virtues  1-1-3
willbender 1-3-2

 

though im total noob so this might be bad build

Radiance looks good.  Virtue's I'd take Absolute Resolve, the extra condi-clear on a such a short cd is huge, rest look good.  WB I'd take Power for Power, the boon duration is insignificant given what you give up for potential utilities for allies(SYG or Advance for instance), Tyrant's makes sense but you could choose any and probably be okay.

[Lattekahvi.2347]

though now that i think about it having pure of heart could make f3 heal quite a lot with 5 aegis spam 😄

[Heinel.6548]

I actually think spamming virtues is kinda the whole point of WB and is the kinda shake up that guardians need. The other specs have the passives and long cooldowns and thats why you want it tactical

 

WB just have more readily available virtues with small effects that can help you in the flow of battle but is not your punchline. In the video he is hitting target max. in a one on one the effect isn't going to be as big and you'll be hard pressed to squeeze value from any of the 3 virtues, so any traits that help you in this regard shouldn't really be C tier.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

On 8/14/2021 at 5:29 PM, Arken.3725 said:

It's very possible for the on-hit virtue's to be nerfed but as it stands(for spvp specifically), i don't feel like it'll be incredibly powerful.  WvW?  Absolutely due to the sheer volume of players.  

I mean in WvW if you're fighting an amount of people for the virtues procs to really matter you're better off using a FB anyways.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

On 8/14/2021 at 5:43 PM, Math.5123 said:

It gets blocked by a single aegis.

It won't see the light of day. I would honestly run Signet of courage over this kitten.

The aegis would block the JI which would allow the elite to hit.

 

But I'm also underwhelmed by the elite, RF just looks so much better, esp if combined w/ Deathless Courage, basically 11 seconds of invuln.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

Yep the elite is just garbage. Super obvious 1.25s animation that roots u in place, and deals 0 dmg in pvp/wvw.... Even if it occupied a utility slot instead of elite I doubt it'd be used lol

[Exile.8160]

49 minutes ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Yep the elite is just garbage. Super obvious 1.25s animation that roots u in place, and deals 0 dmg in pvp/wvw.... Even if it occupied a utility slot instead of elite I doubt it'd be used lol

 

I wish that one day guards in pvp would get to use another elite outside of RF. Hopefully theyll buff the others one day.

[Arken.3725]

@Heinel.6548

 

It's a difficult spot to really comment on the optimal way to utilize them as of this moment.  With the Virtue effects being overwritten and not stackable; this alone is reason enough to not spam your virtues.  Each one, just like in previous specializations serves a certain purpose, regardless of cd.  

 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

Alot is going to come down to how strong the heal skill is, especially its cooldown.

 

If its super-nerfed in PvP, then once again we'll be locked into Valor+Meditations which really limits you. But if you're able to take 2 other traitlines and not be required to take 3x meditations, you could see some interesting stuff.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Arken.3725]

@Ragnar.4257

 

That's a huge caveat for sure.  If the heal stays as it is, it becomes a much more skillful healing skill and reward as such.  

 

I also want everyone to remember that once again, WB will have almost no soft-cc access to stick to their targets.  With solid resistance access, this helps to shore up that problem of either speed, soft-cc or both.  It looks like we might actually get one of the ones needed.

[Math.5123]

6 hours ago, Darknicrofia.2604 said:

The aegis would block the JI which would allow the elite to hit.

 

But I'm also underwhelmed by the elite, RF just looks so much better, esp if combined w/ Deathless Courage, basically 11 seconds of invuln.

So you're burning an elite skill and a stunbreak, to trade for their stunbreak. Still not a good skill. 

[Heinel.6548]

9 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

@Heinel.6548

 

It's a difficult spot to really comment on the optimal way to utilize them as of this moment.  With the Virtue effects being overwritten and not stackable; this alone is reason enough to not spam your virtues.  Each one, just like in previous specializations serves a certain purpose, regardless of cd.  

 

 

I mean, the virtue not stacking is why they give you a trait to refund your cooldown, so you can flip back ASAP. If anything a trait like restorative virtues is going to be the key must take trait. This way you can always flip flop between virtues to get additional chase and pressure in.

[Ragnar.4257]

2 hours ago, Heinel.6548 said:

I mean, the virtue not stacking is why they give you a trait to refund your cooldown, so you can flip back ASAP. If anything a trait like restorative virtues is going to be the key must take trait. This way you can always flip flop between virtues to get additional chase and pressure in.

But it doesn't totally reset the virtue, it just shaves a few seconds off the cooldown (at most 6 seconds).

 

Think this through........ if you want to spam your F1........ you use F1, it goes on 12s CD, and puts you in Justice stance for the next 6 seconds. The trait gives you the option to immediately switch to F2, which removes your Justice stance, puts F2 on 20s cooldown, and reduces your F1 cooldown from 12s to 6s. That's assuming you immediately spam F2 after F1, which I'm not sure you'd always want to do, because you're essentially losing your F2 ability as well as losing your Justice stance. You can't then use F1 to reset F2, because by the time F1 is back up, there will be no remaining time on F2 to 'reset'. So are you now going to burn your F3 to reduce your F2?

 

This all might work against a test golem, but no way in a real PvP game do you want to be burning through F2 and F3 just for the sake of shaving 4-5 seconds off a few cooldowns. And no way do you want to be cancelling those stances early.

 

And this trait competes with the Resistance trait, which feels like a must-have.

 

Honestly the thing I'm most looking forward to is no longer being permanently crippled/weakened/blinded. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[The Boz.2038]

That is the one trait that seems in need of maybe some beefup. Mayhaps in the form of "reduce CD by 2x remaining duration".

[Heinel.6548]

3 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

But it doesn't totally reset the virtue, it just shaves a few seconds off the cooldown (at most 6 seconds).

 

Think this through........ if you want to spam your F1........ you use F1, it goes on 12s CD, and puts you in Justice stance for the next 6 seconds. The trait gives you the option to immediately switch to F2, which removes your Justice stance, puts F2 on 20s cooldown, and reduces your F1 cooldown from 12s to 6s. That's assuming you immediately spam F2 after F1, which I'm not sure you'd always want to do, because you're essentially losing your F2 ability as well as losing your Justice stance. You can't then use F1 to reset F2, because by the time F1 is back up, there will be no remaining time on F2 to 'reset'. So are you now going to burn your F3 to reduce your F2?

 

This all might work against a test golem, but no way in a real PvP game do you want to be burning through F2 and F3 just for the sake of shaving 4-5 seconds off a few cooldowns. And no way do you want to be cancelling those stances early.

 

And this trait competes with the Resistance trait, which feels like a must-have.

 

Honestly the thing I'm most looking forward to is no longer being permanently crippled/weakened/blinded. 

 

I'd look at this the other way around. Justice is the one you burn to recharge the other two. But, I mean, obviously only if you can't actually take advantage of the stance in question. Like if you engage with F2 or F3, or if you just need F2 for the traited initial cleanse. F2 especially has a weak stance. The virtue is a dash evade that inherit all F2 traits, that makes it a good skill, but the healing from the stance is likely to be miniscule or negligible. So resetting F2 is probably the most viable. 

 

If they allow the floor flames to be stacked this can potentially be a good burst combo with some cc, but well, let's see what adjustments they make after beta.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Trejgon.9367]

17 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

I'd look at this the other way around. Justice is the one you burn to recharge the other two, especially if in a power build that isn't gonna need the burning.

 

You seem to have misconception on how this trait works - "using justice to recharge other two" means you just sacrificed the "stance" of other two, to override it with justice "stance" meaning you are now in the stance that gives the burning "you didn't even need".