[UPDATED from BETA] Arken's brief overview of the WillBender

[felix.2386]

bruh how is Roiling Light not S tier.

short CD with evade and blind and daze

how is evade not sustain benefit? evade is the best sustain benefit.

blind is even better, after evading, you also get blind for even more sustain cover

and then you get a broken 3 second long daze for even more cover and that's also a leap.

 

i find it funny how you consider it "lack of sustain benefit" only because it lacks condition clear on top of evade/blind/cc. one skill can't do it all.

 

this is literally one of the most broken skills in the game from description

Edited August 17, 2021 by felix.2386

[Heinel.6548]

1 minute ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

You seem to have misconception on how this trait works - "using justice to recharge other two" means you just sacrificed the "stance" of other two, to override it with justice "stance" meaning you are now in the stance that gives the burning "you didn't even need".

No that's right.

 

Use F1 to recharge F2. The only benefit you gain from flowing resolve is negligible healing unless you are cleaving many targets. In most cases, you just want the initial evade and cleanse.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

1 minute ago, Heinel.6548 said:

Use F1 to recharge F2. The only benefit you gain from flowing resolve is negligible healing unless you are cleaving many targets. In most cases, you just want the initial evade and cleanse.

 

That still makes no sense in context of the sentence I quoted where you tried to argue that "you don't need the burning on those (power) builds anyway" (paraphrasing here), and even if you drop f1 just after f2 you are only getting at best timing 6s off the cd shaved, which for f2/f3 is no longer that noticeable imo. I would still not pick this over the resistance trait (I suppose some changes are coming to the resistance trait, it is a bit overloaded compared to the other two)

[Heinel.6548]

3 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

That still makes no sense in context of the sentence I quoted where you tried to argue that "you don't need the burning on those (power) builds anyway" (paraphrasing here), and even if you drop f1 just after f2 you are only getting at best timing 6s off the cd shaved, which for f2/f3 is no longer that noticeable imo. I would still not pick this over the resistance trait (I suppose some changes are coming to the resistance trait, it is a bit overloaded compared to the other two)

Fine. I'll delete that phrase. It's not a relevant point. 6 seconds on 20 seconds is 30% reduction. That's not "not noticeable." And where did they say the reduction is capped at 6?

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

39 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

Fine. I'll delete that phrase. It's not a relevant point. 6 seconds on 20 seconds is 30% reduction. That's not "not noticeable." And where did they say the reduction is capped at 6?

 

When they explicitelly said that it refunds "unused" part of "stance" duration, and the base duration of these is 6s there is no way to have more than that of "unused" stance duration. On example they provided, he popped f1, then instantly f2 and cd on f1 dropped by 6s (because he used nothing off f1 duration, had he waited couple secs refund value would be lessened by how long he waited)

 

And yes as far as my personal experience go, when I go from 20s till next use to 14s till next use I don't exactly notice the difference. In both cases I need to stay alive for nearly forever before next use soooo 😉

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

When they explicitelly said that it refunds "unused" part of "stance" duration, and the base duration of these is 6s there is no way to have more than that of "unused" stance duration. On example they provided, he popped f1, then instantly f2 and cd on f1 dropped by 6s (because he used nothing off f1 duration, had he waited couple secs refund value would be lessened by how long he waited)

 

And yes as far as my personal experience go, when I go from 20s till next use to 14s till next use I don't exactly notice the difference. In both cases I need to stay alive for nearly forever before next use soooo 😉

Nearly forever? This is 30% cdr, it really is far from unnoticable. 😄 

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

bruh how is Roiling Light not S tier.

short CD with evade and blind and daze

how is evade not sustain benefit? evade is the best sustain benefit.

blind is even better, after evading, you also get blind for even more sustain cover

and then you get a broken 3 second long daze for even more cover and that's also a leap.

 

i find it funny how you consider it "lack of sustain benefit" only because it lacks condition clear on top of evade/blind/cc. one skill can't do it all.

 

this is literally one of the most broken skills in the game from description

It'll be split for pvp. Evades are of little value in pve so they have to give it a low CD. In pvp u can bet it's gonna be at least 30s CD with likely a shorter daze as well. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

3 hours ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

It'll be split for pvp. Evades are of little value in pve so they have to give it a low CD. In pvp u can bet it's gonna be at least 30s CD with likely a shorter daze as well. 

 

It is split for wvw in this beta: Roiling Light is 30s cd in there. Didn't look at numbers on the daze.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

"Reversal of Fortune:  This is easily the best Guardian has ever gotten in terms of a heal.  High reward given for appropriate play with a relatively short cd.  Grade: S"

 

So I'm watching the Twitch Vod. And your incorrect about this skill. Is it cool!? It is. But Reversal of Fortune is not the same as Full Counter. It doesn't give you 1 second of damage immunity. It turns the next strike attack into a heal if that attack lands. Meaning you can be attacked 10 times within a 1 second window. 1 of those attacks will trigger the heal, but the other 9 attacks will land and deal their damage.

 

If anything, Reversal of Fortune is the more like Rebound or Aegis.

Edited August 17, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Ragnar.4257]

27 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

"Reversal of Fortune:  This is easily the best Guardian has ever gotten in terms of a heal.  High reward given for appropriate play with a relatively short cd.  Grade: S"

 

So I'm watching the Twitch Vod. And your incorrect about this skill. Is it cool!? It is. But Reversal of Fortune is not the same as Full Counter. It doesn't give you 1 second of damage immunity. It turns the next strike attack into a heal if that attack lands. Meaning you can be attacked 10 times within a 1 second window. 1 of those attacks will trigger the heal, but the other 9 attacks will land and deal their damage.

 

If anything, Reversal of Fortune is the more like Rebound or Aegis.

Conceptually as a design it's great. And it would be S-tier if it couldn't be interrupted so easily. As is, it's B-tier. Won't be replacing Shelter or Litany.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Just now, Ragnar.4257 said:

Conceptually as a design it's great. And it would be S-tier if it couldn't be interrupted so easily. As is, it's B-tier. Won't be replacing Shelter or Litany.

Ya I agree about its design for sure. I wouldn’t change anything about it, just like Aegis and Rebound, it’s tactical and rewarding when used to negate an attack. 
 

I was just pointing out that it’s not like Full Counter, even though they are somewhat similar, it’s not Op. 

[Darknicrofia.2604]

It would be S tier if it functioned like Facet of Light, but it requiring a channel and can be interrupted is just nonsense when the basis of the skill is to prevent damage.

 

[Arken.3725]

So after playing a bit, I'd give Willbreaker a C- overall, maybe even a D grade overall.  The damage doesn't feel significant enough.  The cool down increases for nearly everything really ruin so much of the flow.  Base-line, current WB virtue's have a longer CD vs core which is insane given how you lose your passive and don't get an initial benefit or is instant.

[Ezrael.6859]

15 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

bruh how is Roiling Light not S tier.

short CD with evade and blind and daze

how is evade not sustain benefit? evade is the best sustain benefit.

blind is even better, after evading, you also get blind for even more sustain cover

and then you get a broken 3 second long daze for even more cover and that's also a leap.

 

i find it funny how you consider it "lack of sustain benefit" only because it lacks condition clear on top of evade/blind/cc. one skill can't do it all.

 

this is literally one of the most broken skills in the game from description

Roiling Light is 30 seconds in PvP/WvW and the rollover skill to leap and Daze usually doesn’t hit, just leaps you close and then you stand still.

 

D-tier stun break.

[Tayga.3192]

This thing deals less damage with 2 damage traitlines than thief in PvP. I don't think it's D even, you just go in and die. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Tayga.3192

[Arken.3725]

The OP has been updated towards the bottom to reflect my current opinions on the class as a whole with each section looked over.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 8/20/2021 at 7:32 PM, Arken.3725 said:

The OP has been updated towards the bottom to reflect my current opinions on the class as a whole with each section looked over.

 

Bro listen. Reversal of Fortune is not like Full Counter. It's like Rebound or Aegis. It negates (1) attack, and heals you for that single attack. It does not give you 1 second of damage immunity

Edited August 22, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Arken.3725]

7 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Bro listen. Reversal of Fortune is not like Full Counter. It's like Rebound or Aegis. It negates (1) attack, and heals you for that single attack. It does not give you 1 second of damage immunity

If that's truly the case, it will be a terrible heal even if the bugs are fixed.  I'll maintain my suggestion that it should be like Full Counter. 

 

Edit: I tested it a few times in spvp and it does act like Full Counter. When it did work, it mitigated multiple hits and then granted me the larger heal. 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Arken.3725

[oscuro.9720]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:22 PM, Arken.3725 said:

If that's truly the case, it will be a terrible heal even if the bugs are fixed.  I'll maintain my suggestion that it should be like Full Counter. 

 

Edit: I tested it a few times in spvp and it does act like Full Counter. When it did work, it mitigated multiple hits and then granted me the larger heal. 

 

Interesting, in my testing I couldn’t get it to proc on multiple hits, granted half the time it didn’t really work, so it could just be because it was buggy af. Over what time frame we’re you getting multiple hits proc’d? 
 

I 100% agree with your suggestion though, it should be full-counter-esque, would create a very dynamic play style as well as increased sustain when pressuring in melee. 

[Arken.3725]

I had an

3 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Interesting, in my testing I couldn’t get it to proc on multiple hits, granted half the time it didn’t really work, so it could just be because it was buggy af. Over what time frame we’re you getting multiple hits proc’d? 
 

I 100% agree with your suggestion though, it should be full-counter-esque, would create a very dynamic play style as well as increased sustain when pressuring in melee. 

I tested multiple instances on npc's within heart-of-the-mists.  All of the attacks were frontal and all were mitigated(0 value) before receiving the larger heal.

[nativity.3057]

While Heel Crack might be D tier, maybe even F tier, there could be some fun interactions between Heel Crack, JI, and Celerity sigil in WvW. 

It's a shame how restricted this beta was in regards to equipment/runes/sigils. Got lucky when they reset the beta characters and threw in more sets in the bank at the time, but there's so many more interactions to try. 

[Darknicrofia.2604]

Ever since cmc decided that every single hard CC skill needs to have a 0.01 power coefficient in spvp/wvw, a good amount of skills they create will be D tier by default.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Darknicrofia.2604

[Arken.3725]

3 hours ago, Darknicrofia.2604 said:

Ever since cmc decided that every single hard CC skill needs to have a 0.01 power coefficient in spvp/wvw, a good amount of skills they create will be D tier by default.

Not entirely!  One could slightly alter cc to make it more impactful or provide some sort of detriment to the target(s) or benefit to the user. 

 

These alone would bring up the score significantly while maintaining the low damage aspect. 

 

Example of what you could do: heel crack now affects up to 3 targets and applies quickness to the user for more targets the were cc'ed. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Arken.3725

[Saiyan.1704]

On 8/13/2021 at 8:24 PM, Arken.3725 said:

The damage bonus to Willbender flames is tacked on for no reason.  Not to mention, this requires you to keep an enemy within the small circle(just like symbols) to benefit.  Stop giving static mechanics to an obviously dynamic specialization.

100% this ^

With a low radius hit and no real option to keep them in the "Flames" (it doesn't even add a burn per hit) it just becomes a crippled version of Symbols.