Willbender Trait line.

[Exile.8160]

Why is it tha we have to give up sometbing to gain something while everyone else gets to just gain passive (better one at that) whithout giving anything. Mobility alone isnt worth a whole trait line. Heck it still would not be better than a thief cuz short bow is a thing.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Exile.8160

[Downstate.4697]

Its going to affect playstyles and how you build your stats.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I really like how they built tradeoffs into the traits. I wonder if they will do that for the old especs in some patch in the future.

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

I don't like Willbender's tradeoff traits. Especially because you don't have options without tradeoffs.

 

Also, the Major Adept traits seem poorly designed. What's the point of a slight self heal buff if you lose way more than that in group healing? What's the point of concentration if you lose boon duration? Why would I want to be even more of a glass canon when other professions can just get a damage bump for free?

[Ragnar.4257]

6 minutes ago, Duke Blackrose.4981 said:

I don't like Willbender's tradeoff traits. Especially because you don't have options without tradeoffs.

 

Also, the Major Adept traits seem poorly designed. What's the point of a slight self heal buff if you lose way more than that in group healing? What's the point of concentration if you lose boon duration? Why would I want to be even more of a glass canon when other professions can just get a damage bump for free?

Is the answer to those questions really not obvious to you?

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I really like how they built tradeoffs into the traits. I wonder if they will do that for the old especs in some patch in the future.

Eww. No thanks.

 

All traits have tradeoffs. The tradeoff for picking any trait is that you don't get one of the other two traits. All these traits do is make themselves less desirable, to the point that I'd actually consider not enabling any of them.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Duke Blackrose.4981 said:

Eww. No thanks.

 

All traits have tradeoffs. The tradeoff for picking any trait is that you don't get one of the other two traits. All these traits do is make themselves less desirable, to the point that I'd actually consider not enabling any of them.

See Anet's Tradeoffs that they've placed on certain specs. This time you get to actually pick it.

[sajah varel.9261]

6 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

See Anet's Tradeoffs that they've placed on certain specs. This time you get to actually pick it.

 

Yeah like berserkers don't have any choice in the matter with the armor tradeoff of berserk mode.

At least the willbender can actually choose where he's going to get hit.

Plus the spec is pretty much designed around selfish play, so cutting out the support with a trait is actually a better choice than doing rebalacing on all the skills.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, sajah varel.9261 said:

 

Yeah like berserkers don't have any choice in the matter with the armor tradeoff of berserk mode.

At least the willbender can actually choose where he's going to get hit.

Plus the spec is pretty much designed around selfish play, so cutting out the support with a trait is actually a better choice than doing rebalacing on all the skills.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Willbender isn't getting a "Tradeoff(TM)" imposed on them, they get to choose it themselves.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Doesn't make it any better. Still a kitten way to balance imo. Imagine not doing damage on CC too when you have only 3...

Hard CCs not doing damage was a balance mistake, but Cal's quips during the livestream indicate that they are here to stay for at least a while yet.

[The Boz.2038]

This thread is the perfect example of how spoiled some guardian players are. Thanks for the show, lads!

[Exile.8160]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, that's what I meant. Willbender isn't getting a "Tradeoff(TM)" imposed on them, they get to choose it themselves.

It is impose, the first line are all trade off no matter what you choose.

[aelska.4609]

Welp most of these traits just add to the long list of useless/misplaced traits 😕
I am especially amazed by the grandmaster traits, that are so penalizing that selecting none is actually better [unless PvE].

Thought Shattered Aegis was useless ? We have found new contenders.

 

The good thing in that spec is that new virtues are actually useful, even untraited.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

29 minutes ago, Exile.8160 said:

It is impose, the first line are all trade off no matter what you choose.

You choose the one though, a particular one is not forced on you.

[Exile.8160]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You choose the one though, a particular one is not forced on you.

I rather have to option to not choose any of those. They could have added one of those to each line so people have an option and not forces to chooses a trade off.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Exile.8160 said:

I rather have to option to not choose any of those. They could have added one of those to each line so people have an option and not forces to chooses a trade off.

But then it would be Guardian+ which is why tradeoffs were forced upon us to begin with, some vastly more so than others.

[Arcaedus.7290]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

But then it would be Guardian+ which is why tradeoffs were forced upon us to begin with, some vastly more so than others.

The trade off is that by picking one traitline, you can't pick another traitline.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Arcaedus.7290 said:

The trade off is that by picking one traitline, you can't pick another traitline.

Then can I get core bursts and 300 toughness back on Berserker and T2 and T3 burst back on Spellbreaker?

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Yes please, at launch i want Willbender to be very balanced, or even the weakest of them all, so people can focus on something else and i can play my class in peace without people thinking Covid is my fault or something like that lol.

But seriously, this is good, you get to actually chose the tradeoff, no to mention the way CMC was speaking about the healing one in the stream it's definitely going to be changed haha (and to a certain extent the grandmaster that makes you imunne to downstate), as long as all new specs have more tradeoffs on powerfull stuff like that, i believe we'll get a set that's not going to overshadow the old ones, and that's really good.

[Ragnar.4257]

41 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Then can I get core bursts and 300 toughness back on Berserker and T2 and T3 burst back on Spellbreaker?

There are already trade-offs inherent in the different Virtues.

 

You can't have Justice passives available 24/7 any more.

You can't insta-cast justice for blind/resol during a combo.

You can't get healing from F2 without landing hits.

You can't insta-cast F3 for aegis when you're stunned.

You lose the ability to share F1, F2 and F3 with your team.

 

In the same way that Reaper-shroud is a trade-off for Core-Necro, getting a different set of virtues is also a trade-off. You are giving up the core virtues. It is not a staight upgrade, and therefore it does not necessarily follow that trade-offs need to be put into the traits.

 

Comparing to spellbreaker is silly. Trading T3 burst for Full-Counter is the same as trading a core virtue for a WB virtue.

 

All of that said, I don't really mind these WB trade-off traits.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Arcaedus.7290]

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Then can I get core bursts and 300 toughness back on Berserker and T2 and T3 burst back on Spellbreaker?

The T2 and T3 burst lacking in Spellbreaker is not equivalent to give and take of stats. 

 

As for the -300 toughness on Berserker: yea, just like with the WB adept traits, I'm not okay with this either? Unfortunately, Anet disagrees. Unavoidable trade off traits are just a thing we have to adapt to.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

35 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

There are already trade-offs inherent in the different Virtues.

 

You can't have Justice passives available 24/7 any more.

You can't insta-cast justice for blind/resol during a combo.

You can't get healing from F2 without landing hits.

You can't insta-cast F3 for aegis when you're stunned.

You lose the ability to share F1, F2 and F3 with your team.

 

In the same way that Reaper-shroud is a trade-off for Core-Necro, getting a different set of virtues is also a trade-off. You are giving up the core virtues. It is not a staight upgrade, and therefore it does not necessarily follow that trade-offs need to be put into the traits.

 

Comparing to spellbreaker is silly. Trading T3 burst for Full-Counter is the same as trading a core virtue for a WB virtue.

 

All of that said, I don't really mind these WB trade-off traits.

But I had to take a different traitline so that's the tradeoff right /s

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

29 minutes ago, Arcaedus.7290 said:

The T2 and T3 burst lacking in Spellbreaker is not equivalent to give and take of stats. 

 

As for the -300 toughness on Berserker: yea, just like with the WB adept traits, I'm not okay with this either? Unfortunately, Anet disagrees. Unavoidable trade off traits are just a thing we have to adapt to.

You missed the sarcasm.

[Bojjang.1052]

On 8/14/2021 at 4:33 PM, Exile.8160 said:

Why is it tha we have to give up sometbing to gain something while everyone else gets to just gain passive (better one at that) whithout giving anything. Mobility alone isnt worth a whole trait line line. Heck it still qould be better than a thief cuz short bow is a thing.

No idea how you can complain about that while looking at the other two especs for guardian.