Need some advice on the builds I'm planning to make for my Necro

[Cheshire Rabbid.7430]

I would like someone to look over the builds I'm thinking of making for my Necro. This would be mostly for PvE content. I think of making my Reaper as a solo thing, while Scourge would do damges while also giving some support to others in big groups.

[misterman.1530]

You can't really go wrong with a Reaper. I prefer to use Rise rather than, say, Spectral Grasp. Never seen a use for Spectral Grasp in PvE, honestly. A better heal skill would be "Your Soul is Mine". And I would swap out Spectral Walk for Signet of Undeath - that'll passively generate some Life Force for you. If you do take more shouts in your skill bar, slot Augury of Death rather then Chilling Nova in the Reaper tree.

I also like to run either Staff/GS or Staff/Axe and Focus or Warhorn - rather than two upclose melee weapons. But again, depends on the situation I might be finding myself in.

 

As for Scourge - well, as PVE enemies rarely need to have boons corrupted, I wouldn't take Corrupt Boons (though, full disclosure, I've never Raided, so perhaps it would be needed there). But Sand Flare, I think, is a better Heal.  And skills should be Trail of Anguish, Blood is Power, and Signet of Undeath. In large zergs slot a Staff. Also, true support takes Blood Magic and not Spite. True condition Scourge takes Curses instead of Spite - and slot a Scepter. Though, after this coming Tuesday's balance patch, you might not need to, which will be nice.

edit: typo

Edited August 15, 2021 by misterman.1530

[XECOR.2814]

Trust me and use this reaper build for open world pve. For raids you would need full zerk scholar rune.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAYFlVw8YbMOWJO2WnNbA-zxQYhoiVDuUaqACLEKNC6NBU7gEG7hXjDOjA-e

[Asum.4960]

Your Reaper looks solid enough. A few changes I'd make for general OW is to consider Dread over Close to Death, the extra Quickness uptime between Shrouds, as well as Fury, generally are a bigger damage boost overall than Close to Death solo.

 

Highly recommend swapping out Speed of Shadows for Unyielding Blast, you really want that 25 Might and Vuln both for PvE. I wouldn't drop a up to 25% damage increase for some Swiftness and limited cleanse, even more so if you intent to stick with Spectral Walk (which isn't strictly necessary either).

 

For Runes I always will recommend Fireworks for anything that doesn't have innate movespeed in Traits. That combined with the increased boon duration and access just make it a great pick, not that Strength is bad though. 

 

Sigil's I'd then probably swap to Force or Concentration with Strength. 

 

Then just Spectral Grasp to gather mobs, Well of Darkness, Nightfall, Shroud and Spin.

 

Two more QoL changes to consider are taking Signet's of Suffering, with Vampirism, Spite and Undeath, as well as taking Fear of Death in SR - if you just want to have a relaxed time with extremely high Shroud uptime, wailing and spinning away with not many more buttons to press.

 

 

For Scourge I'd change a lot tbh. 

First of all, Serpent Siphon might be the worst skill in the game, don't use it^^

Corrupt Boon is fairly irrelevant for general PvE, if you very rarely need some Boon Corruption, you got Scepter 3 for that already. 

Take Signet and Undeath for one of those, and Locust if you don't want to be Snail. Blood is Power for damage, but frankly, for general OW and with how quickly things die there, generally not worth the hassle. Spectral Grasp is always nice QoL to gather things up.

Ghastly Breach.. is fine I guess? I'd still just run Plaguelands for anything tougher worth dropping either, but doesn't matter too much. 

Consume Conditions i'd replace with Sand Flare. You got plenty cleanse with the F2, and esp with Abrasive Grit in the Scourge line.

 

Scepter/Torch//Staff is fine for OW.

In Curses take Master of Corruption if you take Plaguelands, otherwise Terror is fine, just fairly unsynergistic to use Fear for damage now since it reduces your Torment in turn to make mobs move. 

Parasitic Contagion is an option if you really, really, really need sustain, but Scourge is fine without through something I'm going to mention later. Lingering Curse is too big to pass up to make Scepter a decent weapon. 

 

Blood Magic, honestly I'd skip completely. It's not awful, but again, you really want to go Soul Reaping for that Unyielding Blast and extra Damage from Vuln, along with Soul Barbs. Some Life Siphons are not worth both a 25% and 10% multiplier on your damage. 

Then there, for OW, Eternal Life is actually really nice and for solo gameplay pretty much on par with Dhuumfire in terms of damage, while giving you some Prot as well as more access to Barrier, Condi Cleanses and CC through your more free use Fx skills, as well as a bit more might through Abrasive Grit.

 

For Scourge, unless they remove the Might from Abrasive Grit next patch, I'd go 1-1-2, although Fell Beacon is fine too - but pushing out cleanses and some Might to you and allies is nice, and about the same damage unless you are Might capped from someone else already.

 

Now, gear. 

I cannot recommend Runes of Tormenting enough. Rather than massively sacrificing your damage with Parasitic Contagion and Blood Magic, just take these and combined with your Barrier Spam and Prot through Eternal Life you'll be fine. 

You can still dip into Parasitic Contagion for when you are struggling, but generally, especially Blood Magic, you can easily skip. 

 

I'd definitely skip those Venom Sigils, Necro barely has any Poison and that Serpent Siphon (if it ever works) is absolutely not worth it. 

Take Sigil's of Torment, for both much, much more damage and more Healing from the Runes. 

 

That'll give you a pretty immortal and fun solo build, still able to support other's with plenty of cleanses and Barriers.

If you want to focus much more on support than solo play with it, I'd consider Plaguedoctor or Shaman with Blood 1-3-3.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Asum.4960

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Let's talk good things about your reaper build - marauder gear. Well played sir, that is the way to go. Extra vitality and huge precision go a long way to making your build paths very versatile.

My advice - feel free to throw out Soul Reaping for death magic.
Your defense is lacking.

You have no condi cleanse. No protection. Your tougness sits at base value.
Death magic will help with all. Spite's bitter chill + corrupter's fervor + reaper's natural ability to chill will net you max or near max carapace stacks very easy. That's 600 tougness + pulsing protection. It'll go a long way in keeping you alive.
Rise! will push that even further and with necromantic corruption help you deal with some condi pressure. Or you can go dark defiance for condi damage reduction with protection you get from Corrupter's fervor. If condis are non-issue, 300 extra power from Deathly Strength.

The bottom line hover is  - this is a traitine, you can swap in and out as you please. As long as you have marauder gear you will have high crit chance without being ball and chained to traits, so you're good anyway.

Edited August 15, 2021 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Asum.4960]

39 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Let's talk good things about your reaper build - marauder gear. Well played sir, that is the way to go. Extra vitality and huge precision go a long way to making your build paths very versatile.

My advice - feel free to throw out Soul Reaping for death magic.
Your defense is lacking.

You have no condi cleanse. No protection. Your tougness sits at base value.
Death magic will help with all. Spite's bitter chill + corrupter's fervor + reaper's natural ability to chill will net you max or near max carapace stacks very easy. That's 600 tougness + pulsing protection. It'll go a long way in keeping you alive.
Rise! will push that even further and with necromantic corruption help you deal with some condi pressure. Or you can go dark defiance for condi damage reduction with protection you get from Corrupter's fervor. If condis are non-issue, 300 extra power from Deathly Strength.

The bottom line hover is  - this is a traitine, you can swap in and out as you please. As long as you have marauder gear you will have high crit chance without being ball and chained to traits, so you're good anyway.

For what content is that 600 Toughness + Prot needed in your opinion though? Especially at the costs of ~+60% damage and Crit Chance capping in Shroud from Soul Reaping. 

With how powercrept player damage is, in 99% of general PvE content you'll take more damage by investing in defenses by making fight's much longer, giving more opportunities to be hit, rather than just CC and bursting.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

1 minute ago, Asum.4960 said:

For what content is that 600 Toughness + Prot needed in your opinion though? Especially at the costs of ~+60% damage and Crit Chance capping in Shroud from Soul Reaping. 

With how powercrept player damage is, in 99% of general PvE content you'll take more damage by investing in defenses by making fight's much longer, giving more opportunities to be hit, rather than just CC and bursting.

For xpac content and doing solo some champs. Not everything dies in one rotation, been there done that. And he said very clearly he needs a build for PvE solo.

I can attain 96% crit damage with no crit traits at all with Spite + DM + Reaper specs and marauder gear + proper upgrades.
100% if food or precision infusions. Also where did that 60% damage loss came from? Pretty sure Soul Reaping does not provide 60% dps boost..

[Asum.4960]

32 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

For xpac content and doing solo some champs. Not everything dies in one rotation, been there done that. And he said very clearly he needs a build for PvE solo.

I can attain 96% crit damage with no crit traits at all with Spite + DM + Reaper specs and marauder gear + proper upgrades.
100% if food or precision infusions. Also where did that 60% damage loss came from? Pretty sure Soul Reaping does not provide 60% dps boost..

Unyielding Blasts provides 25% extra damage from Vulnerability, which you are lacking otherwise, Soul Barbs an extra 10% multiplier, and Death Perception another 20% Crit Damage, means you'll lose roughly 60% DPS by taking Death Magic over Soul Reaping, even with Deadly Strength. 

 

In my experience Reaper is more than durable enough through Shroud, even more so with Marauder's. 

So by taking DM you sacrifice more outgoing damage (which has much higher value) than you gain incoming damage reduction, on an already naturally very Tanky spec, in short, fights will take much longer and you'll take more damage overall - on a spec that's sturdy in bursts, but doesn't (re)sustain very well.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Asum.4960

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

38 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Unyielding Blasts provides 25% extra damage from Vulnerability, which you are lacking otherwise, Soul Barbs an extra 10% multiplier, and Death Perception another 20% Crit Damage, means you'll lose roughly 60% DPS by taking Death Magic over Soul Reaping, even with Deadly Strength. 

 

In my experience Reaper is more than durable enough through Shroud, even more so with Marauder's.

Ok, so much wrong in there. From the top:

1. Vulni application is still great due to bitter chill. Any chiling you do = 3 vulni stacks per chill. Well of Darkness, RS#5, GS#3, Axe autos, any other chill you bring on board...

2. Death Perception - yes and no. 20% on paper. But it's additive and thus faces diminishing returns. From the get go, base 150% crit damage value means that 20% extra on top of that moves your crit damage from 150% to 170% which is net gain of 13.33% of total direct damage. Since he won't be skipping on Reaper's Onslaught and marauder gear also provides ferocity, that is not the case. He will have 212% crit damage when transformed (as both Reaper's Onslaught and Deadly Perception work only when Shrouded), opposed to 232% if he stuck to Soul Reaping. That's  basically a clean 10% damage output difference between DM version and SR one. And only in shroud. In base form ferocity is same in both scenarios. So we should chop some off the top, given some damage is done in base form. Let's say 30% of total dps is done unshrouded. That makes Death Perception's real damage output value around 7%.

3. Soul Barbs  now here's a straight and honest total damage upgrade. 10% no strange events or math here. But DM offers Deathly Strength which for a power reaper can fill huge part of this gap. 300 extra power from carapace stacks can really close the gap that Soul Barbs allegedly makes. A full marauder power reaper will most likely have 3100~3400 power depending on foods, utilities etc. So Soul barbs would equal around 310-340 power in best scenario.

That makes Deadly Strength's 300 power around 9% damage output boost competing with 10% from soul barbs. That's not a huge deal.
Arguably however, soul barbs are much more consistent - drop out of shroud after 10s or sooner and pop back in when it's off cooldown. Meanwhile carapace stacks needs constant management. For that i will lower their value to 5%  total dps boost.
That being said Soul Barbs are getting 1% penalty as well - because you won't always sit at 25 stacks of might pushing you past 3k power limit that makes SB superior to Deathly Strength. Anywhere below 3k power value, it's DM trait that provides superior value when you ramp it up. So i would judge Soul barbs are 4% total damage output above Deadly Strength.

meanwhile....

A fully carapace stacked marauder necro will have 600 tougness and pulsing prot which equals ~ 49.25% incoming direct damage reduction. Pretty fat advantage for a prolonged fight especially if you're not healing left and right and need to make make each point of your health as well defended as possible. Or if he chooses to forgo corrupter's fervor there's Unholy Sanctuary which addresses the big fat issue of healing a huge healthpool without healing power on board...

Edited August 15, 2021 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Asum.4960]

10 minutes ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Ok, so much wrong in there. From the top:

1. Vulni application is still great due to bitter chill. Any chiling you do = 3 vulni stacks per chill. Well of Darkness, RS#5, GS#3, Axe autos, any other chill you bring on board...

2. Death Perception - yes and no. 20% on paper. But it's additive and thus faces diminishing returns. From the get go, base 150% crit damage value means that 20% extra on top of that moves your crit damage from 150% to 170% which is net gain of 13.33% of total direct damage. Since he won't be skipping on Reaper's Onslaught and marauder gear also provides ferocity, that is not the case. He will have 212% crit damage when transformed (as both Reaper's Onslaught and Deadly Perception work only when Shrouded), opposed to 232% if he stuck to Soul Reaping. That's  basically a clean 10% damage output difference between DM version and SR one. And only in shroud. In base form ferocity is same in both scenarios. So we should chop some off the top, given some damage is done in base form. Let's say 30% of total dps is done unshrouded. That makes Death Perception's real damage output value around 7%.

3. Soul Barbs  now here's a straight and honest total damage upgrade. 10% no strange events or math here. But DM offers Deathly Strength which for a power reaper can fill huge part of this gap. 300 extra power from carapace stacks can really close the gap that Soul Barbs allegedly makes. A full marauder power reaper will most likely have 3100~3400 power depending on foods, utilities etc. So Soul barbs would equal around 310-340 power in best scenario.

That makes Deadly Strength's 300 power around 9% damage output boost competing with 10% from soul barbs. That's not a huge deal.
Arguably however, soul barbs are much more consistent - drop out of shroud after 10s or sooner and pop back in when it's off cooldown. Meanwhile carapace stacks needs constant management. For that i will lower their value to 5%  total dps boost.
That being said Soul Barbs are getting 1% penalty as well - because you won't always sit at 25 stacks of might pushing you past 3k power limit that makes SB superior to Deathly Strength. Anywhere below 3k power value, it's DM trait that provides superior value when you ramp it up. So i would judge Soul barbs are 4% total damage output above Deadly Strength.

meanwhile....

A fully carapace stacked marauder necro will have 600 tougness and pulsing prot which equals ~ 49.25% incoming direct damage reduction. Pretty fat advantage for a prolonged fight especially if you're not healing left and right and need to make make each point of your health as well defended as possible. Or if he chooses to forgo corrupter's fervor there's Unholy Sanctuary which addresses the big fat issue of healing a huge healthpool without healing power on board...

 

Granted, if you Crit Cap without Death Perception (which ofc comes at it's own, less efficient, price though - but was something I didn't consider in an initial quick ingame test) the difference is going to be much smaller, but for example if you take Bitter Chill, you give up yet another 10% multiplier with Spiteful Talisman, for a slightly more bursty but much less consistent Vulnerability still, and if you spend much time Axe autoattacking, you are already not worried about doing much DPS. 

The spec doesn't need that much burst Vulnerability, because general trash mobs get insta gibbed by Shroud anyway, where you really want the Vuln is tougher more sustained fights, and there Unyielding Blast is more consistent (and you still get Spiteful Talisman).

 

Regardless of all the minute details of exactly why and by how much SR performs better in terms of Damage esp. where it's needed, even if it's just a ~20% average DPS loss to take DM (which in some further quick testing with worst case for SR and best case for DM was the smallest I was able to get), it's still a damage loss - and as my point was, an imo unnecessary one. 

I'm not saying running DM is a downright terrible idea, I personally just don't know where Reaper would need that extra survivability for general PvE, but I suppose it's a fine lower skill option (which I don't mean as a slight - there is very much so value in that).

 

Anyway, my personal favourite for general PvE for Reaper is [&DQg1HTItIjYoD5sAdQFwAXcBdgBvAeQAAxOVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=] with Firework Runes, which allows for very high ease of play with extremely high Shroud uptime via Signet of Undeath and Fear of Death, while just Autoattacking and spinning away with 25 Might and Vuln and Perma Quickness and Fury, and depending on kill rate, perma multiple stacks of Stab. 

 

From soloing HoT Hero Points to DRM CM's or Fractals, I never really struggled with this - but fair enough, if one does, DM is a valid thing to take for more sustain.