Warrior's Lost Identity.

[Apolo.5942]

Ever since vanilla, warrior has been heading steadily down hill. Save may be a few weeks where SB shined in pvp. Long gone are the days where SB was a top tier dueler class, which is what it was ironically designed to be.

 

So before Anet corrects course on warrior, we first need to ask ourselves, correct course towards what?.

 

So what do you envision when you imagine a Warrior, regardless of it's current flavor/elite, what are its defining attributes?.

 

To me, a warrior is class centered around dishing out burst of damage and absorbing high amounts of damage. When i think warrior, i think about League of Legends description of their Juggernaut class. A class centered around the idea that to bring it down, it will take a considerable amount of concentrated firepower and letting it roam unchecked will result in considerable damage, essentially a catch 22%, dammed if you do dammed if you dont, centered around its toughness.

 

What are your ideas?.

[sneakytails.5629]

The first week of Spellbreaker was pure bliss. Taking down Soulbeasts and Daredevils left and right. Making Guardians think twice about hitting a virtue. Smashing eles and mesmers into the ground with CC. Good times.

[Apolo.5942]

16 minutes ago, sneakytails.5629 said:

The first week of Spellbreaker was pure bliss. Taking down Soulbeasts and Daredevils left and right. Making Guardians think twice about hitting a virtue. Smashing eles and mesmers into the ground with CC. Good times.

Ok, i agree but the question still stands, when you think a warrior in MMORPG? what comes to mind, forget about GW2's failed implementation, what would be the main aspects of that class to you?.

[sneakytails.5629]

A lot of what I think about a Warrior is GW2 actually has, its just implemented badly as you said.

 

I think of weapon swapping, a strong weapon mastery of many kinds of weapons, martial or physical type skills and durability. Anyone closing with a Warrior in physical combat should not really make it if the Warrior fights properly. Unfortunately in this game, even if you play perfectly certain mechanics will destroy Warrior.

 

They should be feared and respected. Their performance should demand it.

[Gallagher.3941]

Berserker is the perfect class fantasy for me, getting so angry at someone you catch on fire and yell at them until they turn around, then you THROW BOLLAS and run for your life because ANET kitten your profession.

[eXruina.4956]

Its the many mechanical changes so far that have negatively affected Warrior, one after another. That and clueless heavy handed nerfs.

 

They destroyed most of Warrior's original viable mechanics, introduced new ones and gutted those too..

 

Also Spellbreaker originally went toe to toe with the other elite specs and their power creep, they gutted that too..

 

They have a funny perspective regarding balance..

 

Truly ruined the game for me.. hopeful to see better things from them in the future.. with the new expansion coming out, but.. probably not happening lol xD

[Hotride.2187]

Whatever warrior is, it should not get destroyed by blind spam or getting a weakness debuff at the wrong time (i.e. give it more than just featherfoot grace for resistance). It would not hurt to have a viable stability option also, like soulbeast and holo/scrapper. Getting knocked around 5 times in a row by an ele just doesn't seem like you're playing a warrior.

 

Its still a very strong profession, I feel, but you have to work so hard to get anywhere in pvp/wvw roaming.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Hotride.2187

[Zekent.3652]

Spellbreaker: duelist/teamfighter that is not, not even used on pve. 

Berserk: ironically got even more limitations since a rework.

The class itself: "tradeoff, no magic, less than X" Anet's mentality when it comes to warrior.

[Torq.4926]

My favorite version of warrior was the gs axe/shield build back when it still ran defense and stances. It felt fair to duel against because all of the heavy damage skills were clearly telegraphed yet strong enough to feel rewarding when they connected. Adrenal health gave a lot of regen, but it was tied to hitting bursts so there was a measure of skill involved in upkeep. A good warrior had to know how to set up damage and bait dodges, the skill cap was surprisingly high. 

 

Basically, warrior had big damage in the form of melee skills which took well timed cc to land. Its sustain was high but possible to counterplay by dodging bursts or applying poison. You could nullify condi or power damage with stances, but they had long cooldowns so you had to press them at the right moment. 

 

After feb 2020 nerfs, skills like eviscerate and hundred blades no longer do enough damage to justify their cast times, and berserker stance isn't even worth a utility slot. Adrenal health and heal signet have been replaced by might makes right and mending, the old school axe/shield playstyle is pretty much dead. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Torqiseknite.1380

[Jzaku.9765]

5 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

The class itself: "tradeoff, no magic, less than X" Anet's mentality when it comes to warrior.

You hit the nail on the head. The Warrior Identity has been very clear for Anet: 

Can't be too Tech-y or it's an engineer skill.

Can't be too acrobatic or it's a Thief skill.

Can't be too magical or it's a Guardian/Rev skill.

So you get absolutely laughable weapon skills like Rifle where the entire theme is "I shoot and shoot again, hey that's great". 

The restrictions they place on themselves to maintain the flavour of Warrior in their mind utterly kills their creativity when it comes to designing for it. 

 

This is also why none of our NPC allies in the story are Warriors. It's literally too boring to design a Warrior character. Rytlock changed to a Revenant and Canach is basically an Engineer despite wearing heavy armour with a Sword/Shield.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Jzaku.9765

[artharon.9276]

Long story short, warrior suffers balance issues, and it's about time for warriors to cast magic because others can go warrior-esque, 

Edited August 16, 2021 by artharon.9276

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

16 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

 

So you get absolutely laughable weapon skills like Rifle where the entire theme is "I shoot and shoot again, hey that's great". 

Channeling your inner Collin?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY&t=91s

[Grand Marshal.4098]

22 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Channeling your inner Collin?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY&t=91s

LMAO

 

[oscuro.9720]

When I think of warrior, I think of a very simplistic, straightforward, hard to knock over type of class. You stick to things persistently and bash them to death. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I have sinned. 

 

I played Willbender yesterday and had 10 times more fun playing it and surviving than I had with warrior for a long time... 

 

[felix.2386]

On 8/14/2021 at 10:12 PM, sneakytails.5629 said:

The first week of Spellbreaker was pure bliss. Taking down Soulbeasts and Daredevils left and right. Making Guardians think twice about hitting a virtue. Smashing eles and mesmers into the ground with CC. Good times.

boring AF tho, low damage, but unkillable and will kill anyone over time.

the defense spellbreaker

spellbreaker vs spellbreaker lasted forever, because the one who wins is the one who procs full counter. so both just stand still and watch who move first..

 

 

 

OT:

warrior lost identity since HoT, reaper, herald, soulbeast, holo etc..better melee feel with more versatile gameplay.

now willbender, i literally suggested willbender like gameplay for next warrior elite or berserker rework so it will not be another side noder..but yea...i guess not.

Edited August 21, 2021 by felix.2386

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I have sinned. 

 

I played Willbender yesterday and had 10 times more fun playing it and surviving than I had with warrior for a long time... 

 

Say 10 warrior prayers and then stomp 10 foes and all will be forgiven my son.

 

(Go look up the warrior's prayer from the band Manowar for the reference)

 

 

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

33 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Say 10 warrior prayers and then stomp 10 foes and all will be forgiven my son.

 

(Go look up the warrior's prayer from the band Manowar for the reference)

 

 

 

Will do! I just found a very epic WB build for zerging aimed at doing what hammer warriors did in the ancient times. 

 

Valor: mid, mid, mid

Virtues: top or mid, top, bottom

Willbender: top or mid, bottom, bottom

 

Greatsword/Hammer

 

A mix of Cavalier with Knight/Sentinel (don't remember which) for toughness and power precision ferocity

 

Sigils of hydromancy and energy on hammer, bloodlust and cleansing on greatsword

 

Block heal, Merciful intervention, contemplation of purity or Stand your ground and JI, renewed focus elite. 

 

JI hammer 5 into zerg, virtue 1 hammer 2, virtue 3 hammer 3, GS 2, GS 4 and 5 then kite away with virtue 2 and use contemplation to face tank condis, block heal and renewed focus off cooldowns to allow for safe kiting and recharge of virtues, with merciful intervention used to port back to ally zerg. 

 

My dps matched and surpassed a trap Dragonhunter and was only beaten by a condi firebrand. 

 

Lots of potential here that warrior doesn't have... Only thing that's a bit meh on willbender for me is that despite picking the courage GM and the courage stunbreak trait, I can still get interrupted mid cast. Ig for counterplay, but I think stunbreak (cough cough Headbutt cough cough) should not be interrupted like that. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Obtena.7952]

To be fair, warrior never had much of an identity to begin with ... it's one of the most generic archetypes in gaming ever. 

[zOLtAm.7824]

On 8/16/2021 at 4:52 PM, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Channeling your inner Collin?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY&t=91s

 

Btw, where is this place? https://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY?t=161 ? Looks like DR with a big deep cratter in the center.

 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Warrior need buff, i'm tired roasting that class with Flamethrower as Scrapper 😕

 

The only 2 times i got suprised fighting vs Warior was that rifle build that oneshoted me before dmg reduction patch, and once when i pity on warior too much so he took me by suprise as full zerker xd

 

I think that class need bit more survability buff on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fatal_Frenzy

->Toughness From -300 to -150

 

That way you can chose 20% dmg or +150 Toughness

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

1 hour ago, zOLtAm.7824 said:

 

Btw, where is this place? https://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY?t=161 ? Looks like DR with a big deep cratter in the center.

 

It is DR, it used to be the great collapse and is now the crown pavilion.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Crown_Pavilion

[felix.2386]

21 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

To be fair, warrior never had much of an identity to begin with ... it's one of the most generic archetypes in gaming ever. 

wth are you talking about, generic as in most game will have a warrior, doesnt make warrior itself lose it's identity

it is so generally used in so many games, because it's identity is clear as sky, like a warrior is a freaking warrior.

 

i've not seen a dumber comment in quite some time.

Edited August 22, 2021 by felix.2386

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

wth are you talking about, generic as in most game will have a warrior, doesnt make warrior itself lose it's identity

 

Warrior doesn't have much identity to lose because it's very generic is what I'm talking about. It's not like we have warrior specs with scepters that throw magic bolts ... not yet anyways.  THAT is when you can complain Warrior lost it's identity. 

 

Just because you don't know what I'm talking about doesn't mean my comment is dumb. Warrior is just about a generic class as you can get ... it covers lots of ground here. As long as it's not looking 'wizard-like' it's hard to say something isn't suitable for a warrior. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Geoff Fey.1035]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Warrior doesn't have much identity to lose because it's very generic is what I'm talking about. It's not like we have warrior specs with scepters that throw magic bolts ... not yet anyways.  THAT is when you can complain Warrior lost it's identity. 

 

Just because you don't know what I'm talking about doesn't mean my comment is dumb. Warrior is just about a generic class as you can get ... it covers lots of ground here. As long as it's not looking 'wizard-like' it's hard to say something isn't suitable for a warrior. 

This is very wrong. I could argue that Ranger has no identity beyond "+1 pet and bow". Mesmers have no identity beyond "clones". It's a very limited way of looking at the classes.

 

Warrior's identity in GW2 is complicated. Pre-HoT, warriors were the CC class. They would focus on disabling foes during a fight to keep the hurt on them with the burst skill functioning as a damage spike or as an additional damaging CC when needed.

 

After HoT, this began to include a condi-brawler, power-spike, CC-fighter, etc. It really opened things up.

 

Leading up to PoF and the nerfs after is where this really started to change. Nerfs did happen to Berserker and Spellbreaker, but the biggest changes were to Core Warrior. They nerfed the damage of all CC skills which heavily gutted some of warrior's weapons (Mace, Shield, Hammer) and an entire Skill Type (Physical) from being "damage boosts + CC" to purely CC (for the worse), changed Rifle skills (nice idea, bad implementation), and then started on nerfs to the Elite Spec builds such as Berserker Condi (Mace lost condi; Rifle, primal burst was the only reason to use it).

 

The Warrior lost its identity of controlling the battlefield and being a fighter on it. They now are either a fighter or control--the overlap was completely severed and many other classes do it better to the extent where all a warrior brings nowadays are banners, and even then most metas are moving away from even caring about the banner due to Ascended Food, Consumables, and the sheer toolbox other professions have or are getting via update.