Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If it's the same, why are you so opposed to people getting it? lol

Since its the same they dont need it.

If they want it, then do the content its locked behind.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Vayne.8563]

5 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Since its the same they dont need it.

If they want it, then do the content its locked behind.

That's not an answer to my question. If it's the same, there's no reason to lock it behind anything. If it's different they might need it. It's QOL nothing more at this point. Changing stats on the fly is nice, but changing skins whenever you want for free is a roleplayers dream. Shrugs.

[Vilin.8056]

19 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea and you still dont have to do raids to get best in slot gear.

Ascended is same grade and it can be earned outside of raids.

That would be the Toshiba Handibook. XD

[Rinagal.9235]

9 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

How about the proof that you yourself said "I want legendary gear to be able freely experiment with builds......".

Exactly. Now read this.

Quote

Suddenly people claim they're juggling stats in open world and constantly come up/try out/need to use broad variety of builds, which somehow wasn't the case before the armory

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[Zalavaaris.5329]

7 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

Exactly. Now read this.

 

I'd check the dates on that one. 

[Vayne.8563]

30 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

Exactly. Now read this.

 

Maybe because it was too inconvenient to mess with builds in the open world.

As a Guild Wars 1 player I had tons of different builds, not just for dungeons, but for different zones. I might include different builds for different zones in the open world if I could switch everything easily at one time like I did in Guild Wars 1. But without that, I don't like carrying multiple sets of gear around, and I didn't in Guild Wars 1 either.  It's about convenience.

I'm not a min maxer by any point, but yeah I"d switch builds and even sometimes stats if it was convenient.

[Rinagal.9235]

5 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Maybe because it was too inconvenient to mess with builds in the open world.

As a Guild Wars 1 player I had tons of different builds, not just for dungeons, but for different zones. I might include different builds for different zones in the open world if I could switch everything easily at one time like I did in Guild Wars 1. But without that, I don't like carrying multiple sets of gear around, and I didn't in Guild Wars 1 either.  It's about convenience.

I'm not a min maxer by any point, but yeah I"d switch builds and even sometimes stats if it was convenient.

You can "go to mystic forge and change stats on your ascended gear" or "buy exotics" each time you want to try something new, it's exactly the same as legendary gear and in no way affect player's desire to try new things, because there were "true build crafters" who did this. Those are arguments i had to deal with.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

14 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Gonna hard disagree on that one

Why not ?

You can have the Radiance/Hellfire gear as you wish .

We can have the Raids ones .

And the precursor of the 3 of them can be unlocked via gifts of exploration and other gifts

It's just your idea , with an extra set(Raid) in it .

 

Or they can start offering the New Legendary Weapons in the HoT area , while in EoD they can re-introduce the Envoy .

HoT Raids will have a reason to be re-populated again .

And people who already are doing Raids , they already have collected most of the mats needed for the weapons  (that way , you reward players whose already  playing your content atm)

 

It's just like the Adventure box , were rewards were moved around

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The game did not encourage dungeons. The reward for dungeons from a gear perspective were exotic skins...but the actual level of armor could be gotten in many places. You could get exotic armor in Orr from karma vendors by playing...survey says...the open world. You didn't have to do dungeons to get BIS gear and most of the population didn't do dungeons, even though there was a strong dungeon running community.

In fact, the personal story lead into a story mode dungeon which Anet changed to a single instance due to complaints about having to group for dungeons. The game neither required nor particularly encouraged dungeons beyond a mail you got when you were able to do one..but the story didn't take you through them.

 

And raids don't replace dungeons, Fractals, which are still current did. Raids are a different animal with different rules. Even dungeons and Fractals have different rules than the open world. No buffs can be used. Can't freely rez people until everyone in your party is out of combat. But raids take it further. Can't rez anyone once they're dead, the whole group has to start over.

 

If you think most people played dungeons 8 years ago in this game, I don't know what to tell you.  Even dungeon tokens to get legendary armor,. could be earned eventually by doing PVP and WvW reward tracks, and now you can even trade in exchange vouchers that you get from festivals and never enter a dungeon, WvW or PvP even once to get dungeon tokens.

Dungeons were the best rewarding content in the game back then.  You could get not only skins ,but also the attributes you wanted.  You could get the gear for karma, but back then Karma was also a bit more difficult to get.  42k karma per piece and you couldn't salvage it (The only way to get runes back at the time.), so crafted and dugneon armor was more appealing.  Crafted actually cost a ton (30g per set when the most you could probably make back then was 2g an hour). Both of these made dungeons super appealing because they awarded 80 tokens per path, you could basically get one piece every two days of an armor set you want so long as you do all three paths per day.  They also awarded good gold and loot too.  And yes, the old path of the story did lead you to the dungeons.  What do you think those mails you get about destiny's edge characters in dungeons are for?  It's a side-story that explains their reunion.  To top it all off, the  last instance is still a dungeon that was group content.  They removed the group need because less and less players were doing the story after they finished it once. (No repeatable rewards, no reason to go back in.)

[Vayne.8563]

36 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

You can "go to mystic forge and change stats on your ascended gear" or "buy exotics" each time you want to try something new, it's exactly the same as legendary gear and in no way affect player's desire to try new things, because there were "true build crafters" who did this. Those are arguments i had to deal with.

Going back to the mystic forge to change stats will exactly stop me from trying new stuff. It might not stop YOU from trying new stuff, but it's a no go for me. I'll stay with one build longer than I should before I switch stats.  Sorry but that's a non answer.

[Vayne.8563]

Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Dungeons were the best rewarding content in the game back then.  You could get not only skins ,but also the attributes you wanted.  You could get the gear for karma, but back then Karma was also a bit more difficult to get.  42k karma per piece and you couldn't salvage it (The only way to get runes back at the time.), so crafted and dugneon armor was more appealing.  Crafted actually cost a ton (30g per set when the most you could probably make back then was 2g an hour). Both of these made dungeons super appealing because they awarded 80 tokens per path, you could basically get one piece every two days of an armor set you want so long as you do all three paths per day.  They also awarded good gold and loot too.  And yes, the old path of the story did lead you to the dungeons.  What do you think those mails you get about destiny's edge characters in dungeons are for?  It's a side-story that explains their reunion.  To top it all off, the  last instance is still a dungeon that was group content.  They removed the group need because less and less players were doing the story after they finished it once. (No repeatable rewards, no reason to go back in.)

I could get most of the attributes I wanted from the five temples in Orr. The TP also existed back then and people could buy stats. And dungeons weren't particularly profitable until they added the gold reward for them. That came much later.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Going back to the mystic forge to change stats will exactly stop me from trying new stuff. It might not stop YOU from trying new stuff, but it's a no go for me. I'll stay with one build longer than I should before I switch stats.  Sorry but that's a non answer.

What?  Because you refuse to do it, doesn't make it a non answer,  my dude.  It's an option there for you to do and, if you refuse, you're only hampering yourself.

[Vayne.8563]

4 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

What?  Because you refuse to do it, doesn't make it a non answer,  my dude.  It's an option there for you to do and, if you refuse, you're only hampering yourself.

It's a non answer because you're equating changing stuff on the fly in the world between doing one thing and another, and having to go back to the mystic forge every time I want to change a build. And paying for it every single time. It's in no way convenient.

When you change stats in the mystic forge, you get a new piece of gear. That means you lose your skin so you also have to reskin your character. Six pieces of gear, weapon, armor. Oh like 8-10 tranmutation charges and the cost to change each piece, plus upgrade extractors, and then you have to redye everything because the dyes will have reset.  Are you even serious?

It's nice that Anet let us have a legendary weapon. That's fine. What use is the stat changing on that if I can't change everything else too?

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, Vayne.8563 said:

I could get most of the attributes I wanted from the five temples in Orr. The TP also existed back then and people could buy stats. And dungeons weren't particularly profitable until they added the gold reward for them. That came much later.

Did you

Not

Read

what I wrote

at all?

Karma? 42k per piece 252k per set.  Unsalvageable (Once you slot runes, you commit to that set.) made karma gear undesirable unless you really knew what you were doing and had spare karma (And gold for runes if you needed to change things).  Karma that, back then, was difficult to come by.

Crafted?  Sure.  that'll be at least 30g for a full exotic set. In 2012, hat was basically about the equivalent of ~400g  today.

What'd this leave?  Dungeons.  You could get a set through dungeons. Berserker armor came from three dungeons, making it rather easy to acquire a full set of meta gear to farm more dungeons for your soldier's set to do WvW or (back then) world bosses, since you couldn't crit most of them.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Just now, Vayne.8563 said:

It's a non answer because you're equating changing stuff on the fly in the world between doing one thing and another, and having to go back to the mystic forge every time I want to change a build. And paying for it every single time. It's in no way convenient.

When you change stats in the mystic forge, you get a new piece of gear. That means you lose your skin so you also have to reskin your character. Six pieces of gear, weapon, armor. Oh like 8-10 tranmutation charges and the cost to change each piece, plus upgrade extractors, and then you have to redye everything because the dyes will have reset.  Are you even serious?

It's nice that Anet let us have a legendary weapon. That's fine. What use is the stat changing on that if I can't change everything else too?

I've never needed to change things on the fly and I have basically all 3 weights of legendary gear.  All legendary gear has saved me is the time and cost of setting up characters in another ascended gear set, two inventory spaces for toughness gear and  moving toughness infusions for tanking.

Also now you have  a legendary weapon.  An item that fits on every character you will ever make, can be freely transmuted to whatever skin you have unlocked any number of times, and have the sigils and infusions moved out of it freely.  That's what you're getting.  You're complaining about getting a free icecream scoop because you don't want to pay for the whole sundae.

[yann.1946]

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The game did not encourage dungeons. The reward for dungeons from a gear perspective were exotic skins...but the actual level of armor could be gotten in many places. You could get exotic armor in Orr from karma vendors by playing...survey says...the open world. You didn't have to do dungeons to get BIS gear and most of the population didn't do dungeons, even though there was a strong dungeon running community.

Well it did encourage running dungeons for runes etc. Till leg runes came out you needed to run dungeons (ot pvp ) for bis runes.

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

In fact, the personal story lead into a story mode dungeon which Anet changed to a single instance due to complaints about having to group for dungeons. The game neither required nor particularly encouraged dungeons beyond a mail you got when you were able to do one..but the story didn't take you through them.

True, raids storywise are in a similar spot (except you don't even get notified that they exist after some story instance)

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

And raids don't replace dungeons, Fractals, which are still current did. Raids are a different animal with different rules. Even dungeons and Fractals have different rules than the open world. No buffs can be used. Can't freely rez people until everyone in your party is out of combat. But raids take it further. Can't rez anyone once they're dead, the whole group has to start over.

true

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If you think most people played dungeons 8 years ago in this game, I don't know what to tell you.  Even dungeon tokens to get legendary armor,. could be earned eventually by doing PVP and WvW reward tracks, and now you can even trade in exchange vouchers that you get from festivals and never enter a dungeon, WvW or PvP even once to get dungeon tokens.

Instanced content will alway be a niche, thats not nessecarily a bad thing though.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 minute ago, yann.1946 said:

True, raids storywise are in a similar spot (except you don't even get notified that they exist after some story instance)

true

 

False.

Anet killed dungeons back when HoT dropped specifically to replace them with Raids.  They were appealing  to the crowd that ran dungeons.  Fractals were for the people who wanted gear progression. with how ascended gear works and how infusions can be upgraded.

[yann.1946]

Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

False.

Anet killed dungeons back when HoT dropped specifically to replace them with Raids.  They were appealing  to the crowd that ran dungeons.  Fractals were for the people who wanted gear progression. with how ascended gear works and how infusions can be upgraded.

Sure, but fractals fill the 5 man niche. in a way that raids dont. In the same way that strikes are sorta the fractals of raids (just without the gear grind)

[Tails.9372]

7 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Instanced content will alway be a niche

 

That's not true as story content is instanced for the most part and yet it's not niche at all. The only reason why most of the other instanced content is "niche" is because it's designed to be that way.

[xenon.3264]

 

6 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

False.

Anet killed dungeons back when HoT dropped specifically to replace them with Raids.  They were appealing  to the crowd that ran dungeons.  Fractals were for the people who wanted gear progression. with how ascended gear works and how infusions can be upgraded.

 

i used to do dungeons every day. i do fractals nearly every day . fractals is not for people who want gear progressions.

LOL

were do you get such an idea ? you do fractals because it's the best way to get money in game. there is no progression in gw2 tx god you reach ascended level and there it stops. you could buy the agony you need the first day .

 

ascended gears can be crafted outside fractals  too.

 

the whole point is people have to do pvp and wvw even if they do not like beacuse it's the only way to get  a legendary armor without doing raid. think about how much they dislike raids. are they capable of playing or not? that's not the point. they want to invest time in game but they just want to invest time doing somehing they like and this something is not raids.

 

 

 

 

[Rinagal.9235]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Going back to the mystic forge to change stats will exactly stop me from trying new stuff. It might not stop YOU from trying new stuff, but it's a no go for me. I'll stay with one build longer than I should before I switch stats.  Sorry but that's a non answer.

 

Yup, it is more or less what i said, now you'll be told that you didn't do it not because of some inconvinience, but because you just didn't wanted to actually. They know you better than you do.

[yann.1946]

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

A lot of people here seemed to miss a point, so I'll repost something I posted in reddit just now:

 

Do you know how you get legendary armor in PvP? By doing the same thing you did before legendary armor came out. No change at all to what you do. You PvP to get PvP legendary armor. You don't run tournaments. You just PvP. You play the same maps. You have the same rules.

Tbh, having to run tournaments might have been a healthy requirement for the pvp armour.

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Do you know what you do to get WvW legendary armor? You play WvW. You take camps. Capture towers. Kill guards. Fight players...hell escort dolyaks. Same thing you always did.

True

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Tell me what percentage of PvEer's who want legendary armor are raiders? Better yet, 7 years ago, what percentage of PvE players were raiders.

The answer is none, because there were no raids.

How is that relevant. 

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If raiders are so dense that they equate raiding with everything else in PvE, which no one could have done until raids came out with HoT, I don't know what to tell you.

Nobody does this, you don't need to strawman. What people have said is that a pve set already exist in the envoy set because surprise raids and hot are pve. (shocker i know. :p)

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If you think most people raid in this game, or most people enjoy raiding or most people want to raid, you'd be in a pretty small minority because raiders are in a pretty small minority. And those raiders believe that it's okay to tell everyone in the PVE game that's not a raider to step up there game to get that reward, but PvPers and WvWers, they don't have to.

No sane person thinks most people raid (and i have seen nobody say so, so why bring that up?)

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Do you know why so many PvE'er are wasting hours of their leisure time in game modes they're not really interested in? Because they don't want to raid.

If you think that's okay, that's fine you can believe that, but I assure you that's a problem for Anet.

You do realise that might be an advantage for the game as a whole? 

8 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If Anet wants people to play the game in greater numbers, they shouldn't be driving them to formats of the game they don't enjoy for a reward.

The should drive them to do other formats of the game. And to be honest their are also rewards for long term engagement to almost all game modes. (things you can exclusively get in that gamemode.)

 

And to set the record straight, im not against another leg set, just please use decent arguments for it. You dont need to strawman people to make a point. 🙂

[Captain Kuro.8937]

7 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

False.

Anet killed dungeons back when HoT dropped specifically to replace them with Raids.  They were appealing  to the crowd that ran dungeons.  Fractals were for the people who wanted gear progression. with how ascended gear works and how infusions can be upgraded.

It's not Anet  that killed the dungeons .

People before Raids (need specific class ,250kp , food) , were filling the dungeons LFG : "War-Guardian-1x Thief - link Berseker Gear -5k AP" .

The company simply reduced the gold you can get from EACH part (3) of the  instances form 1g  (or 1,5g?) to 50 silver (without counting the Rares)

But the Arah (which didn't have have soloo-instance ,it was expected the "end grouped  instance") still retain the 2g

Edited August 27, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[yann.1946]

7 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

That's not true as story content is instanced for the most part and yet it's not niche at all. The only reason why most of the other instanced content is "niche" is because it's designed to be that way.

Correction then, instanced group content is niche. Honestly drm also probably weren't played by the majority of players after the first sory palythrough.

On top of that, niche content is healthy for the game. JP's being a prime example.

[Vayne.8563]

23 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Did you

Not

Read

what I wrote

at all?

Karma? 42k per piece 252k per set.  Unsalvageable (Once you slot runes, you commit to that set.) made karma gear undesirable unless you really knew what you were doing and had spare karma (And gold for runes if you needed to change things).  Karma that, back then, was difficult to come by.

Crafted?  Sure.  that'll be at least 30g for a full exotic set. In 2012, hat was basically about the equivalent of ~400g  today.

What'd this leave?  Dungeons.  You could get a set through dungeons. Berserker armor came from three dungeons, making it rather easy to acquire a full set of meta gear to farm more dungeons for your soldier's set to do WvW or (back then) world bosses, since you couldn't crit most of them.

Edit: I know for an absolute fact most people didn't do dungeons. It doesn't matter if you believe me or not. It's not relevant. It's a fact that most people didn't do dungeons and certainly not to level.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Vayne.8563