Turret Rework Idea

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

In another thread I put:

Quote

Maybe Anet should give the turrets wheels to ride along with engi like how minions move with necro.

Going back to the comment after someone reacted to it, the idea got me thinking. It'd actually be really badazz seeing an engi walk around with their turrets in tow. It'd be like a walking fortress. I'm sure numbers can be tweaked and cooldowns looked closely at in order for it to work, but it not only seems cool as hel but also a step in a good direction.

[MrForz.1953]

Pea Shooters or Pea Shooters on wheels, it won't make a difference. Apparently the issue people have with them is the permanence of their presence without maintenance. They can only ever be powerful if they could only attack for like 10 seconds before shutting down or blowing up.

[Kodama.6453]

9 minutes ago, MrForz.1953 said:

Pea Shooters or Pea Shooters on wheels, it won't make a difference. Apparently the issue people have with them is the permanence of their presence without maintenance. They can only ever be powerful if they could only attack for like 10 seconds before shutting down or blowing up.

Exactly this here.

 

People hated turrets because they meant a constant stream of damage onto the enemy while the engineer could entirely focus on their own survival.

They need windows of power, working similar like the reworked spirit weapons for guardian, unloading an attack on a selected area with alot of power, but then either having to build up again or blow up and be on cooldown.

 

I personally would like to still reward turrets for being around for prelonged times. Suggested a rework for turrets in the past which made them collect charges after being planted. Unlike other charge abilities, not just a single stack, but all stacks would get consumed after reactivating the turret (and selecting a target area). The power of the skill (damage, CC duration, healing, conditions, whatever the turret does) scales with the engineer stats and the number of charges you consumed for the attack.

 

Just giving them wheels doesn't change anything. Rifle turrets currently hits for 500 damage every 2 seconds or such... it provides a dps of 250, not scaling with boons, your stats, or anything else.

Their damage is absolutely meaningless, so having them mobile would still keep them as trash.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[The Boz.2038]

Permanent presence with no maintenance, but also no impact from your own stats (with one exception). Those are the problems.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Permanent presence with no maintenance, but also no impact from your own stats (with one exception). Those are the problems.

2 exceptions: healing turret and flame turret.

[The Boz.2038]

Heal turret isn't offensive, so didn't count it. And most of the time, it isn't used as a "turret", but a double-click heal+cleanse that also detonates a combo field and does a hurty..

Edited August 16, 2021 by The Boz.2038

[Nero.7369]

Well we kinda had gyros on wheels... they were calles gyros and felt really clunky.

I personally could imagine a more mesmers phantasm like behaviour. A single skill press would lead to: Spawn Turret -> Turret execution -> Blast itself up automatically

Of course some adjustments should be done then. I could imagine sth like:
Rifle Turret could shoots more of a barrage like Rangers Rapid Fire at your single target
Net Turret could be an Ground Targeting then that shoots imoblizing nets at up to 5 Targets
Rocket Turret could should two rounds with AoE at your target. First one will knockdown, second one will deal damage
Thumber Turret could be setup for 3 Rounds of knockbacks, as some sort of stability rip / to get opponents out of an area


 

Edited August 16, 2021 by NeroBoron.7285

[Shaogin.2679]

2 hours ago, NeroBoron.7285 said:

Well we kinda had gyros on wheels... they were calles gyros and felt really clunky.

I personally could imagine a more mesmers phantasm like behaviour. A single skill press would lead to: Spawn Turret -> Turret execution -> Blast itself up automatically

Of course some adjustments should be done then. I could imagine sth like:
Rifle Turret could shoots more of a barrage like Rangers Rapid Fire at your single target
Net Turret could be an Ground Targeting then that shoots imoblizing nets at up to 5 Targets
Rocket Turret could should two rounds with AoE at your target. First one will knockdown, second one will deal damage
Thumber Turret could be setup for 3 Rounds of knockbacks, as some sort of stability rip / to get opponents out of an area


 

Honestly I feel like this is the best approach and I wish they would do it already. Turrets could become pretty awesome and useful if they worked like this. Just summon, perform action, then detonate. 

[Stalima.5490]

I have an Idea, and bear with me on this one...

 

what if your turret abilities dropped two turrets instead of one?

[SkyCake.4216]

While it wouldn't solve the turret problem on its own since there are obviously mechanical issues too, turrets are the main reason I want a rework of Inventions. Similar to Necros, making an Engineer take a non-DPS traitline in order to make turrets effective would make it easier to balance turrets where they want with a trait on each column. They kind of had this before, but it didn't really work out with the old system.

I honestly think Death Magic on Necromancer is a wonderful traitline even if it doesn't get much use outside of Open World PvE. It introduces a new mechanic to Necro, has synergy with it, and buffs their summons to the next level while also interacting with this new mechanic. I hate saying "just do what Necro did, but for Engineer's Inventions". It obviously wouldn't be exactly the same. But, I think it would go a long ways to helping turrets and Anet to balance them. We could also get something else fun from the rework to replace some of the more boring traits in Inventions and maybe support Scrapper would get new toys from a rework. 

 

Anyways, I'm just kind of rambling. To continue being uncreative, they could introduce a "scrap" mechanic that stacks on the turret and either passively powers it over time or is spent to use their ability. It would give Anet even more control over the power of turrets and could help against AFK farming by giving it active-interactions. 

The obvious downside to this is that you would have to drop either Explosives (lol), Firearms, or Tools to really get the full power of turrets. That's intentional. It would also require more effort from Anet since they're no longer balancing just the turrets themselves and Experimental Turrets. But, 3 new traits (maybe just two if Experimental Turrets stuck around), possibly a new mechanic, and how each of those pieces interact individually with the Engineer. Might be a bit too much effort for something that Anet very clearly doesn't care about in the first place. 

My ideas are full of problems. Just desperately want anything done about turrets at this point. Warhammer Online had my favorite iteration of an Engineer in an MMO and part of that was the turret. I just like being able to build things and set-up a presence. 

[Ragebru.1397]

Would really like if turrets were also dropped like the supply crate. Being able to deploy them at a distance would be huge. Give them a 10 sec duration (lower their charge CD's), and make them a combo field when they land. Buff their attack frequency to match similar weapons. 

Do not make them environment items 

ie. flamethrower burning field, thumper lightning field, rocket a smoke field, net poison field

 

edit: guess this would simply make them gyros, but since they will likely never be a source of raw damage, might as well go for a finishing ability.  Being able to then blast them in their respective fields would add a lot of utility to them and might give them some actual utility outside of being used as a method of finishing off opponents. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by jwhite.7012

[draxynnic.3719]

Wasn't there a trait once, before turrets were boonsmited, that allowed you to set up turrets at a distance by throwing them?

 

But yeah, if persistent turrets are such a big problem, then maybe the Renegade approach (or phantasm rework approach) could work. Instead of the turret being persistent, it spawns, has an effect suitable for a skill that has to compete with a kit for the slot, then runs out of ammunition and detonates. Sure, it'd be a shame to lose the 'set up' approach, but maybe that could be the unique feature of turrets: instead of having a set duration, they have a set number of shots they can fire. So you can use them to prepare a position in a similar manner to traps, but once a fight begins they'll only last for ten seconds or so before running out of ammunition and self-destructing.

 

Mind you, there's still a big part of me thinking that if minionmancers get to be viable, the classic turret engineer should be too. But at least turrets with limited active duration should have the opportunity to have a meaningful impact before they expend their ammunition.

[bethekey.8314]

It is ridiculous how bad turrets are in comparison to other AI in the game (elementals, pets, clones, minions etc).

 

Immobile -- should be tanky then right?

Low health -- should do damage then right?

Weak -- should be buffable / synergistic then right?

Poor/bugged trait synergy -- well kitten

 

Let it sink in that Minion Master Necro was played at the highest level of PvP not that long ago. I think was even played today in the monthly tournament.

 

 

[Dracomet.3648]

I have thought of a turret rework that may be slightly controversial I dunno, but I will post it here instead of a new thread. The flavour idea is rather than being fully autonomous, they are remote controlled by the engineer.

 

The problem:

Turrets are too afk-able

Turrets take “no skill” to use therefore can’t/shouldn’t be strong

Turrets are just passive dead things you “set and forget”

 

My Solution:

1. Make turrets by default just boon pulsers from experimental turrets, and remove their ability to auto-attack (or pulse heal for heal turret). Turrets don’t “overcharge” when placed. Experimental turrets trait should be replaced by something else (use your imagination).

2. Turrets attacks/abilities are directly linked to your tool belt. They do not replace the current tool belt, but rather they become “active” when using the corresponding toolbelt. When you use your toolbelt skill, they will overcharge/fire/pulse heal/stomp at whatever target your tool belt is currently targeting, and then they stop after a few hits until you use your tool belt again. Flame turret should be changed to “blinding flames” that burns and blinds. If out of range, they target the closest where possible.

3. Remove the cooldown on pickup.

4. Move the initial heal from healing turret on to the toolbelt (like medkit heal)

 

Result:

1. Turrets are no longer afk, set-and-forget, “no skill” utilities. The engie must actively order them to do their thing via the tool belt skill. This will no doubt make people who like to play engie casually or farming not very happy, but I think the vast majority of engie mains never really use turrets cause of how bad they are anyway. 

2. This gives us reason to keep turrets on the field, rather than how many people just put it down then blow it up immediately. It also brings back the old overcharge mechanic as something the player can activate on demand again.

3. You can now make turrets last forever since they won’t do anything unless ordered to.

4. Turrets can be more quickly picked up and moved around more quickly without cooldown because they won’t do anything when placed until explicitly told.

5. By turning what is essentially a passive ability into an active ability, you can now buff them accordingly without the whole “passives can’t be as strong as active skills” hanging over your head.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Dracomet.3648