Trailblazer Harbinger

[yann.1946]

With the amount of precision in core necro, and the conversion trait of vitality  to expertise, do you think a trailblazer condi setup might do more damage then viper.

Or will the power coefficient of pistol make viper the strongest pick.

 

Personally i would love it if the optimal dps statset would not be vipers. 🙂

[LucianDK.8615]

Trailblazer will not work out well in any pve group content because of the toughness bonus.

[Infusion.7149]

The power coefficient on pistol looks like it is terrible. Cal Cohen stated that 2023 power was used in the preview.
Pistol auto had 467 damage with that power, with 0.5s activation while it has a torment stack --- assuming no aftercast that is roughly 934 per second but if it has even 0.04s aftercast then you are looking at something akin to 864 per second
Pistil #2 had 1872 damage with that power, with 1.75s activation and 6s base cooldown while it has 6 torment stacks

Pistol #2 had 779 damage with 0.75s activation and 12s cooldown it is more likely to be used for CC and poison stacks

With 2024 power in gw2skills (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFcsFaIA-zRRYBh6DUMkQfA-e  or http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFcsFaIA-zRRYBKSgeQMR9DA-e for ascended weapon), for PVE:
Dagger does 648 + 503 + 863 on auto ; the whole chain takes 2.04s so on average ~987 per second (680+528+906 for ascended)
Dagger #2 does 1944 tooltip with the 1.75s activation time and 10s cooldown (2034 for ascended)

Axe does 720 on auto with 1s activation , whole auto chain is 1.04s so on average ~692 per second  (754 tooltip with ascended)
Axe #2 does 2880 with 1.75s activation and 8s base cooldown (3016 with ascended)
Axe #3 does 633 damage but is more or less for boon rip (664 with ascended)

Reaper's GS does 791+1028+1344 on auto ; whole chain takes 2.88s which means on average ~1099 per second (831+1080+1412 for ascended)
GS #2 does 2372 with 1.75s activation and 8s base cooldown (2493 for ascended)
GS #3 does 2016 with 1s activation and 10s base cooldown (2118 for ascended)

As far as shroud:
Auto had 702 tooltip and 0.5s activation and one torment stack
Shroud #2 had 2802 tooltip and 0.75s activation along with 4s cooldown , but note 6 torment stacks
Shroud #3 had 779 tooltip and 1s activation along with 5s cooldown, note 1 torment stack since it's mainly a gap closer
Shroud #4 is mainly CC and a gap closer but had 982 tooltip  with 10s cooldown
Shroud #5 had 1120 tooltip and is a 3s float CC with 20s cooldown

Core shroud would have 1K tooltip with the same power +/- 1 power but the attack rate on core shroud is lower due to 1s activation time.

All signs point to tormenting being predominant. I think it will be tormenting runes and/or demon sigils. Without demon sigil you're looking at full viper's + expertise infusions to hit ~100% torment duration.

Using discretize's excellent gear optimizer and putting in an estimated 67% torment / 3% poison / 15% bleed / 15% power, 18 condition infusions

with tormenting rune, bursting and demon sigil you get the following gear (rare veggie pizza + toxic focusing crystal):

Damage	Helm	Shld	Coat	Glov	Legs	Boot	Amul	Rng1	Rng2	Acc1	Acc2	Back	Wep1	Wep2	Cond	Expe
1,764.99	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.39	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.39	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.35	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.25	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.09	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.73	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.56	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.42	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.28	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0

With writ of malice:

Damage	Helm	Shld	Coat	Glov	Legs	Boot	Amul	Rng1	Rng2	Acc1	Acc2	Back	Wep1	Wep2	Cond	Expe
1,814.02	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.42	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.42	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.38	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.28	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.14	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.8	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.67	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.46	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.33	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0

Edited August 15, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[LucianDK.8615]

Power definitely seems underpowered here, we shall see if Anet manages to do anything with it. But id bet on condi as being the winner indeed.

[Asum.4960]

Viper (+ Tormenting Runes, Bursting and Torment Sigil) is most likely going to be the highest DPS option. Then potentially Carrion (+ Tormenting Runes, Torment and Demons Sigil) for a saver option? We'll have to see, may also be some stat mixing. 

 

Trailblazer will be great for general PvE and such as always, but as @LucianDK.8615 mentioned, be a no go for certain group content due to Toughness, and I don't see how it would beat Viper, Carrion, Sinister or even Plaguedoctor's with Toughness Main stat and no power at all. 

Unlike Scepter and Scourge, it seems like Pistol and Harbinger Shroud will at least decently benefit from Power.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Sigmoid.7082]

Here is how I see it. 

 

The cooldowns on the main damaging skills on pistol are very low, with the trait and alac weeping shot has a cooldown of  ~4s. I think you may want to skip sceptre and bleeding here and focus on the torment from shroud skills and pistol only, maybe casting sceptre #3 before going into shroud, but you likely wont be auto-attacking with it. 

 

Also the power coeffs of the main damaging abilities are fairly high. Based on Cal having 2023 power and a leg pistol weeping has a coeff of ~2.4 and the auto has a coeff of ~0.6.  So despite the auto being weak the #2 skill should more than make up for it with how often it can be used.

 

Unsure of what weapon the shroud will use, reaper uses a hammer for instance, but if its similar to reapers tainted bolts will be ~0.82 and dark barrage ~3.3. The shroud auto is also two hits so will stack up torment pretty fast especially when combined with the pulsing trait, faster manifest sand shade and desert shroud for instance. Also dark barrage as a skill you, with the soul reaping trait and alac, can cast every ~3s does more damage than desert shroud.

 

Due to the focus on torment you can get 50% duration from the rune and taking dark gunslinger will give you another 11.8% from vit, 1360 due to minor, conversion. If you take a sigil of demons as well before you take any other expertise you already have ~82%. You need ~270 expertise to max out the torment duration, giving you a lot of freedom stat wise. The rune also gives you a bunch of sustain. You can get ~270 expertise from viper rings + viper earrings + 70 expertise food. The rest of your stats can be whatever you want. 

 

What remains to be seen is how fluid the shroud auto is and how its version of dhuumfire is and how many stacks of poison you can get from sceptic corruption.  If its worth it then you can take more viper, if not then you can go sinister and get a higher base condition damage stat

 

 

For general stuff I suppose some combination of parasitic, blood-bank, and tormenting run will very much keep you alive.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Sigmoid.7082

[yann.1946]

59 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Trailblazer will not work out well in any pve group content because of the toughness bonus.

Well it would not work in some raid encounters, but quite a few dont have a thoughness tanking mechanism. 🙂

[yann.1946]

50 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The power coefficient on pistol looks like it is terrible. Cal Cohen stated that 2023 power was used in the preview.
Pistol auto had 467 damage with that power, with 0.5s activation while it has a torment stack --- assuming no aftercast that is roughly 934 per second but if it has even 0.04s aftercast then you are looking at something akin to 864 per second
Pistil #2 had 1872 damage with that power, with 1.75s activation and 6s base cooldown while it has 6 torment stacks

Pistol #2 had 779 damage with 0.75s activation and 12s cooldown it is more likely to be used for CC and poison stacks

With 2024 power in gw2skills (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFcsFaIA-zRRYBh6DUMkQfA-e  or http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFcsFaIA-zRRYBKSgeQMR9DA-e for ascended weapon), for PVE:
Dagger does 648 + 503 + 863 on auto ; the whole chain takes 2.04s so on average ~987 per second (680+528+906 for ascended)
Dagger #2 does 1944 tooltip with the 1.75s activation time and 10s cooldown (2034 for ascended)

Axe does 720 on auto with 1s activation , whole auto chain is 1.04s so on average ~692 per second  (754 tooltip with ascended)
Axe #2 does 2880 with 1.75s activation and 8s base cooldown (3016 with ascended)
Axe #3 does 633 damage but is more or less for boon rip (664 with ascended)

Reaper's GS does 791+1028+1344 on auto ; whole chain takes 2.88s which means on average ~1099 per second (831+1080+1412 for ascended)
GS #2 does 2372 with 1.75s activation and 8s base cooldown (2493 for ascended)
GS #3 does 2016 with 1s activation and 10s base cooldown (2118 for ascended)

As far as shroud:
Auto had 702 tooltip and 0.5s activation and one torment stack
Shroud #2 had 2802 tooltip and 0.75s activation along with 4s cooldown , but note 6 torment stacks
Shroud #3 had 779 tooltip and 1s activation along with 5s cooldown, note 1 torment stack since it's mainly a gap closer
Shroud #4 is mainly CC and a gap closer but had 982 tooltip  with 10s cooldown
Shroud #5 had 1120 tooltip and is a 3s float CC with 20s cooldown

Core shroud would have 1K tooltip with the same power +/- 1 power but the attack rate on core shroud is lower due to 1s activation time.

All signs point to tormenting being predominant. I think it will be tormenting runes and/or demon sigils. Without demon sigil you're looking at full viper's + expertise infusions to hit ~100% torment duration.

Using discretize's excellent gear optimizer and putting in an estimated 67% torment / 3% poison / 15% bleed / 15% power, 18 condition infusions

with tormenting rune, bursting and demon sigil you get the following gear (rare veggie pizza + toxic focusing crystal):

Damage	Helm	Shld	Coat	Glov	Legs	Boot	Amul	Rng1	Rng2	Acc1	Acc2	Back	Wep1	Wep2	Cond	Expe
1,764.99	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.39	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.39	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.35	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.25	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,764.09	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.73	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.56	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.42	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,763.28	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0

With writ of malice:

Damage	Helm	Shld	Coat	Glov	Legs	Boot	Amul	Rng1	Rng2	Acc1	Acc2	Back	Wep1	Wep2	Cond	Expe
1,814.02	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.42	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.42	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.38	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.28	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,813.14	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.8	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.67	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.46	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	Vipe	18	0
1,812.33	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Vipe	Sini	Sini	Sini	Vipe	Vipe	18	0

Does this take the vit to expertise trait into account?

[Infusion.7149]

12 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Does this take the vit to expertise trait into account?

It doesn't because the calculator doesn't have necromancer at all let alone unreleased specs.

This is purely off gear. If you don't use demon sigil and don't have expertise from traits you're looking at full viper + expertise infusions.

Seeing how scourge gets 225 expertise from shades I could see harbinger running plaguedoctor gear + tormenting rune as well. You need 1700ish vitality to get the same amount of expertise on Harbinger. I suppose carrion with demon sigil and tormenting rune could also be an option as you get 77% tormenting duration before the traits are counted (~17% additional condition duration is around 94% torment duration).

Edited August 15, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[yann.1946]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It doesn't because the calculator doesn't have necromancer at all let alone unreleased specs.

This is purely off gear. If you don't use demon sigil and don't have expertise from traits you're looking at full viper + expertise infusions.

Ah, cause that was actually the core of my question. Does the amount of expertise you would get from the vit in trailblazers compansate for the loss of power and precision in viper. 

[Asum.4960]

3 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Ah, cause that was actually the core of my question. Does the amount of expertise you would get from the vit in trailblazers compansate for the loss of power and precision in viper. 

Doing Quickmath (don't quote me on this), Trailblazer will gain ~5.5% Condition Duration (~82 Expertise) from the conversion Trait over Viper, at the cost of 1173 Power and 30% Crit Chance (633 Precision). 

 

That's probably a no. 

 

E:

In fact, not at all. Full Viper + Tormenting Runes + Dark Gunslinger will put you at 100% Torment Duration pretty much exactly (100.86%).

So that extra 5.5% Trailblazer would get from Dark Gunslinger conversion would even just be overcap duration on your main damage source and therefor mostly wasted.

 

E2:

Didn't consider Alchemic Vigor, which makes even full Viper overstack Torment by 4%, so could run a Sinister or otherwise with that.

Full Trailblazer would overcap by ~8.5%.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Asum.4960

[yann.1946]

8 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Doing Quickmath (don't quote me on this), Trailblazer will gain ~5.5% Condition Duration (~82 Expertise) from the conversion Trait over Viper, at the cost of 1173 Power and 30% Crit Chance (633 Precision). 

 

That's probably a no. 

 

E:

In fact, not at all. Full Viper + Tormenting Runes + Dark Gunslinger will put you at 100% Torment Duration pretty much exactly (100.86%).

So that extra 5.5% Trailblazer would get from Dark Gunslinger conversion would even just be overcap duration on your main damage source and therefor mostly wasted.

 

E2:

Didn't consider Alchemic Vigor, which makes even full Viper overstack Torment by 4%, so could run a Sinister or otherwise with that.

Full Trailblazer would overcap by ~8.5%.

Could you just not take tormenting runes then? Then you would not over stack. 🙂

[Nimon.7840]

11 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Viper (+ Tormenting Runes, Bursting and Torment Sigil) is most likely going to be the highest DPS option. Then potentially Carrion (+ Tormenting Runes, Torment and Demons Sigil) for a saver option? We'll have to see, may also be some stat mixing. 

 

Trailblazer will be great for general PvE and such as always, but as @LucianDK.8615 mentioned, be a no go for certain group content due to Toughness, and I don't see how it would beat Viper, Carrion, Sinister or even Plaguedoctor's with Toughness Main stat and no power at all. 

Unlike Scepter and Scourge, it seems like Pistol and Harbinger Shroud will at least decently benefit from Power.

 

Tormenting rune will only be played on the condiboon version of this Charakter (full plague doctor with tormenting rune and demon sigil).

 

You will do a noticeable amount of bleeding, poison and burning.

Which will make a setup like this much better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABsihjFDEGJWqX1vfA-zRJYmRPfZ0VFkbKI8BRE2DNQU8rJFnVA-e

 

 

(Pistol instead of dagger Mainhand, harbinger instead of scourge obviously)

 

But this is just for raids and maybe fractals.

For open world content something more tankier like trailblazer should be much better.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Nimon.7840

[Asum.4960]

6 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Could you just not take tormenting runes then? Then you would not over stack. 🙂

You could, but it's by far the most stat efficient way to get Torment duration, which looks to be by far the highest damage source of the build, even much more so than Scourge (on which Tormenting Runes already just barely are a DPS loss for massive sustain gain). 

Additionally, I fear without Tormenting Runes heals, even with a support, you'll constantly tick LF away due to Arena Ticks and such being backhealed, which, unless Harbinger has overwhelming LF gain, which might very well be the case with those low CD Pistol skills and the GM minor, might be a further DPS loss, at least in certain fights. 

 

On top of that, you would still lose a huge amount of Power and Precision, as well as having the tanking conflicts for certain bosses - so while probably great for general play, I don't see how it possibly could compete as meta DPS set.

 

4 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

 

Tormenting rune will only be played on the condiboon version of this Charakter (full plague doctor with tormenting rune and demon sigil).

 

You will do a noticeable amount of bleeding, poison and burning.

Which will make a setup like this much better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABsihjFDEGJWqX1vfA-zRJYmRPfZ0VFkbKI8BRE2DNQU8rJFnVA-e

 

 

(Pistol instead of dagger Mainhand, harbinger instead of scourge obviously)

 

But this is just for raids and maybe fractals.

For open world content something more tankier like trailblazer should be much better.

 

By the current numbers (1.5 second Quick every 3 seconds, Elixier to cover Shroud CD), Plaguedoctor Harbinger will not be able to solo maintain Quickness and will need Firebrand Runes on top, no? Just Plaguedoctor (+ conversion Trait) would leave it at 52% Boon duration, even with a Conc. Sigil I don't see that being enough.

 

I guess we will see in testing if 10% extra duration on the differently tuned Dhumfire, Bleeds from Barbed Precision and Septic Corruption Poison and Vile Blast Poison will beat capped Torment Duration + Bursting Sigil and potentially more Shroud uptime due to less Lifeforce to Heal ticks (also, since Tormenting + Viper caps without food, you could run a +15% Burn/Poison duration food on top, whichever ends up higher). 

I don't see how it will be much, if at all, better tbh, when Tormenting are already barely a DPS loss on the Scepter camping, much less Torment focused Scourge. Combined with the massive QoL loss of the sustain, even more so on the super squishy Harbinger, I'd say Nighmare at best will be the thing featured at Snowcrows for golem benchmarks, while Tormenting will be the thing 99.9% of player will benefit and perform better on in actual play (which won't stop them from copying the needlessly squishy build for a minor DPS gain that they are not skilled enough to actually realise in play anyway, ofc). 

 

Speculation at this point though.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Asum.4960

[yann.1946]

6 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

You could, but it's by far the most stat efficient way to get Torment duration, which looks to be by far the highest damage source of the build, even much more so than Scourge (on which Tormenting Runes already just barely are a DPS loss for massive sustain gain). 

Additionally, I fear without Tormenting Runes heals, even with a support, you'll constantly tick LF away due to Arena Ticks and such being backhealed, which, unless Harbinger has overwhelming LF gain, which might very well be the case with those low CD Pistol skills and the GM minor, might be a further DPS loss, at least in certain fights. 

 

On top of that, you would still lose a huge amount of Power and Precision, as well as having the tanking conflicts for certain bosses - so while probably great for general play, I don't see how it possibly could compete as meta DPS set.

 

 

By the current numbers (1.5 second Quick every 3 seconds, Elixier to cover Shroud CD), Plaguedoctor Harbinger will not be able to solo maintain Quickness and will need Firebrand Runes on top, no? Just Plaguedoctor (+ conversion Trait) would leave it at 52% Boon duration, even with a Conc. Sigil I don't see that being enough.

 

I guess we will see in testing if 10% extra duration on the differently tuned Dhumfire, Bleeds from Barbed Precision and Septic Corruption Poison and Vile Blast Poison will beat capped Torment Duration + Bursting Sigil and potentially more Shroud uptime due to less Lifeforce to Heal ticks. 

I don't see how it will be much, if at all, better tbh, when Tormenting are already barely a DPS loss on the Scepter camping, much less Torment focused Scourge. Combined with the massive QoL loss of the sustain, even more so on the super squishy Harbinger, I'd say Nighmare at best will be the thing featured at Snowcrows for golem benchmarks, while Tormenting will be the thing 99.9% of player will benefit and perform better on in actual play. 

 

Speculation at this point though.

The reason I think they might compete is if the power coefficients on the condi build are not great, and you get a rather big amount of crit chances from traits and boonsupport.

 

Thus we might have more condi stats (cond damage and expertise) into the build using trailblazers. 

 

People will probably take viper to make it easier though. 

[Asum.4960]

12 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

The reason I think they might compete is if the power coefficients on the condi build are not great, and you get a rather big amount of crit chances from traits and boonsupport.

 

Thus we might have more condi stats (cond damage and expertise) into the build using trailblazers. 

 

People will probably take viper to make it easier though. 

It's a thought, yes. But as I said above, Viper and Trailblazer have the same amount of Condition Damage and Expertise, the only extra Trailblazer would get is 82 Expertise from the conversion trait via extra Vitality, at the price of 1173 Power and 633 Precision. 

Considering the Spec is inherently build to have a Power Build in mind as well (although it very well might not perform as well overall), from a purely DPS standpoint, I don't see how those power coefficients could be that utterly terrible to somehow make Trailblazer do more damage than Viper due to an extra 5.5% Condition Duration (which a Viper setup can then make up for more stat efficiently in other places), which was your question. 

 

It will be a fine choice otherwise.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Anchoku.8142]

I am looking at Diviner's equipment and many more types. The beta will come with an equipment set. I am anxious to see how power and condi builds play. I do not see my Scourge support equipment having value on 'Binger and ran into a wall of inefficiency with Blood Magic.

 

On the other hand, with a stability elixer, 'Binger may be able to play a tank role in some corner conditions so I am not ready to rule out equipment with toughness.

[Nimon.7840]

16 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

You could, but it's by far the most stat efficient way to get Torment duration, which looks to be by far the highest damage source of the build, even much more so than Scourge (on which Tormenting Runes already just barely are a DPS loss for massive sustain gain). 

Additionally, I fear without Tormenting Runes heals, even with a support, you'll constantly tick LF away due to Arena Ticks and such being backhealed, which, unless Harbinger has overwhelming LF gain, which might very well be the case with those low CD Pistol skills and the GM minor, might be a further DPS loss, at least in certain fights. 

 

On top of that, you would still lose a huge amount of Power and Precision, as well as having the tanking conflicts for certain bosses - so while probably great for general play, I don't see how it possibly could compete as meta DPS set.

 

 

By the current numbers (1.5 second Quick every 3 seconds, Elixier to cover Shroud CD), Plaguedoctor Harbinger will not be able to solo maintain Quickness and will need Firebrand Runes on top, no? Just Plaguedoctor (+ conversion Trait) would leave it at 52% Boon duration, even with a Conc. Sigil I don't see that being enough.

 

I guess we will see in testing if 10% extra duration on the differently tuned Dhumfire, Bleeds from Barbed Precision and Septic Corruption Poison and Vile Blast Poison will beat capped Torment Duration + Bursting Sigil and potentially more Shroud uptime due to less Lifeforce to Heal ticks (also, since Tormenting + Viper caps without food, you could run a +15% Burn/Poison duration food on top, whichever ends up higher). 

I don't see how it will be much, if at all, better tbh, when Tormenting are already barely a DPS loss on the Scepter camping, much less Torment focused Scourge. Combined with the massive QoL loss of the sustain, even more so on the super squishy Harbinger, I'd say Nighmare at best will be the thing featured at Snowcrows for golem benchmarks, while Tormenting will be the thing 99.9% of player will benefit and perform better on in actual play (which won't stop them from copying the needlessly squishy build for a minor DPS gain that they are not skilled enough to actually realise in play anyway, ofc). 

 

Speculation at this point though.

Well you get 22% boonduration from vitality conversion.

 

I think I already put the build somewhere in the forum.

But here's the link again :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABsihjjRwOsLsYvqfqA-zRJYvRPfZ0VFkeK49BJA2DvmU8VB-e

 

that's full concentration infusions.

 

I feel like we are missing a condi version of diviners gear. And I have a feeling that that stat combination might come with eod.

 

just some numbers to throw around (100% boonduration)

utility elixir: 15 seconds cd (traited + alac) gives 8 seconds of quickness with 100% quickness duration

Elite skill: 36 seconds CD (traited + alac)

shroud: ticks 3 seconds of quickness every 2.25 seconds (alacrity)

after a shroud rotation of 10 seconds, that would leave you with 5procs producing 15 seconds of quickness. So you will have 5 seconds left if you leave shroud after 10 seconds.

if you press the elixir then you have your non shroud time covered as well (overproducing 3 seconds)

 

And you still have the elite, with which you want to start a fight.

so it's definitely possible to keep up quickness.

Will see, how much boonduration is actually needed to keep up the quickness

 

So I think we will not need the CDR trait for elixirs.

[Asum.4960]

14 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

Well you get 22% boonduration from vitality conversion.

 

I think I already put the build somewhere in the forum.

But here's the link again :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABsihjjRwOsLsYvqfqA-zRJYvRPfZ0VFkeK49BJA2DvmU8VB-e

 

that's full concentration infusions.

 

I feel like we are missing a condi version of diviners gear. And I have a feeling that that stat combination might come with eod.

 

just some numbers to throw around (100% boonduration)

utility elixir: 15 seconds cd (traited + alac) gives 8 seconds of quickness with 100% quickness duration

Elite skill: 36 seconds CD (traited + alac)

shroud: ticks 3 seconds of quickness every 2.25 seconds (alacrity)

after a shroud rotation of 10 seconds, that would leave you with 5procs producing 15 seconds of quickness. So you will have 5 seconds left if you leave shroud after 10 seconds.

if you press the elixir then you have your non shroud time covered as well (overproducing 3 seconds)

 

And you still have the elite, with which you want to start a fight.

so it's definitely possible to keep up quickness.

Will see, how much boonduration is actually needed to keep up the quickness

 

So I think we will not need the CDR trait for elixirs.

Hm, okay so ~89% Boon Duration with stat Infusions, Concentration Sigil and Food, but for probably about 99.99% of the playerbase that won't invest into Infusions it's ~83% BD.

 

Also, are you sure Alacrity affects Deathly Haste? As far as I'm aware it doesn't affect Internal Cooldowns, but I'm actually not entirely sure what "Intervals" fall under. 

 

So worst case (no Infusions, no Alac effect on Deathly Haste) that would just very barely not scrape by, even pending zero mechanics.

 

Also keep in mind the Alacrity formula is actual recharge time = original recharge time / (1 + faster recharge rate), meaning under Alacrity, skills recharge is 80% of the original, not 75%.

 

So even if Alac affects Deathly Haste, that would proc it every 2.4 Seconds, and a 16 second Traited CD for Anguish Elixier, which while perma uptime, would still be extremely tight considering realistic scenarios with mechanics (much less than QB with 0% BD and Firebrand Runes, which is able to weave it's Quickness a lot more tactically between mechanics, along with providing a mountain of other benefits).

 

Ehh, yea, idk about this.

 

 

E:

Nvm, they already buffed Deathly Haste to 2 seconds base duration, good to go with Plaguedoctors.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Asum.4960