Already Broken?

[MementoMortis.4258]

Is anyone else seeing this?

 

Deathly Haste + Superior Rune of the Firebrand + Twisted Medicine + Elixir of Anguish with Seraph Gear = Five Man Tasmanian Devil Death Squad

 

You only need one Harbinger for close to 100% Quickness uptime for an entire group. You could even run Diviner's Gear if you wanted. Bananas. 

 

I see SO many nerfs coming. 

[SeTect.5918]

11 minutes ago, MementoMortis.4258 said:

Is anyone else seeing this?

 

Deathly Haste + Superior Rune of the Firebrand + Twisted Medicine + Elixir of Anguish with Seraph Gear = Five Man Tasmanian Devil Death Squad

 

You only need one Harbinger for close to 100% Quickness uptime for an entire group. You could even run Diviner's Gear if you wanted. Bananas. 

 

I see SO many nerfs coming. 

I think they want this to have 100% quickness uptime to maybe making hfb not the only easy quickness support. 

I dont think its broken to give 100% quickness to ur team. 

Top dmg boons are quickness, alac and might. Imo. 

 

Might is easy to get. 

Hfb grants 25 might and perma quickness.

Ren grants perma alac. 

 

Scrapper also got fine quickness some months ago. 

 

I dont really see why its broken now to give another class perma quickness. 

Since harbinger also has soooo many sustain reductions, its also not rly close to broken to me. 

Just my opinion. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Dadnir.5038]

13 minutes ago, MementoMortis.4258 said:

I see SO many nerfs coming. 

I do see them coming as well. The only thing that's "lacking" on the harbinger is it's "power traitline" because the spec will struggle to find enough precision to make the most out of it with what we got atm.

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

I don't know if there will be nerfs.

Also if you choose the shared elixirs trait you loose quite some jucy stats.

 

For condi boon harbinger I'm going to try this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABsihjjRwOsLsYvqfqA-zRJYvRPfZ0VFkeK49BJA2DvmU8VB-e

 

Note: you get 2533vitality x0,13= 329 extra concentration = 22% boonduration

So this build has high torment and high boon duration.

 

Note: I'm not quite sure if harbinger is able to keep up Perma quickness without 100% boonduration or the elixirs CDR trait

 

Power version:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFgE2Z4YEsD7CHprynKA-zRJYwRPfZERKkeFY7BJM2DvGKssB-e

 

 

Note: on both builds switch out scourge for harbinger. And dagger Mainhand for pistol.

 

For the condi version: it might not be worth to play scepter, because of extremely low bleed duration.

But could still be worth for the extra torment.

 

Rotation:

Something like: spam pistol abilities, go scepter and use 3 (maybe 2 as well) then go shroud. Shroud 1+2+maybe 3+4. > If soulbarbs buff runs out end shroud.

After shroud use scepter 3 (+2?), Swap to pistol. Repeat.

 

Rotation for power build:

Spam pistol skills, swap to axe. Axe 2, well of suffering > shroud (shroud 1+2, depending on coefficients maybe 3+4) > end shroud after soulbarbs buff runs out. End shroud. Axe 2. Swap to pistol and spam 2 off cd

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Nimon.7840

[DragonFury.6243]

have you guys heard of quickness FB

it can do exactly that and offer agies and stab and reflect for mechanics 

additionally the harbinger is limited with its 240 radius around you

[The Boz.2038]

Which part of this perma-team-quickness strikes you as OP, while not doing the same for the, you know, other sources of perma-team-quickness?

[Anchoku.8142]

The dev's did their best to balance the beta elites so I prefer to wait a day and actually try the new specializations. Maybe there is a reason for the numbers they chose that will become apparent later.

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, MementoMortis.4258 said:

Is anyone else seeing this?

 

Deathly Haste + Superior Rune of the Firebrand + Twisted Medicine + Elixir of Anguish with Seraph Gear = Five Man Tasmanian Devil Death Squad

 

You only need one Harbinger for close to 100% Quickness uptime for an entire group. You could even run Diviner's Gear if you wanted. Bananas. 

 

I see SO many nerfs coming. 

Quickbrand does 31k DPS, more comfortable and more situtaionally useable/reliable perma Quickness, spams out Aegis, gives perma Fury without sacrificing a Utility, has both optional and baked in lower CD Stability as well as Reflects, as well as emergency mass cleanses, incoming heal modifiers, etc. 

 

If anything, Harbinger is way, way, way behind and already needs fairly sizeable buffs to reworks of some skills if it wants to even play in the same ballpark as that.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Quickness scrapper can do it too. And he's considered a welcomed option, not nerf-bat target.

[Dadnir.5038]

52 minutes ago, Anchoku.8142 said:

The dev's did their best to balance the beta elites so I prefer to wait a day and actually try the new specializations. Maybe there is a reason for the numbers they chose that will become apparent later.

I think many players will be surprised by how much they underestimate the harbinger in many way.

[Wintermute.5408]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Which part of this perma-team-quickness strikes you as OP, while not doing the same for the, you know, other sources of perma-team-quickness?

Necros just can't have nice things.

[ZDragon.3046]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I think many players will be surprised by how much they underestimate the harbinger in many way.

For most people its because they dont trust anet to get the risk/reward balance correct. Espcially if there will end up being other classes that do similar numbers or  BETTER numbers without any of the risk at all. Then it will seem like they just threw it on for a thematic purpose and not a class mechanic purpose which is exactly what blight looks like right now because it has no positive effect at any stack count with no traits applied. Even once you apply a trait there is only a  single trait that does anything for having it. If they designed it closer to how Holo heat build up works less people would be skeptical about it honestly. Cmc talked about payout for building blight but there is really hardly any

a 25% damage mod at max stacks is not that big a deal its 10% more than reapers damage mod at max stacks and for reaper the only requirement is having a target chilled. and if its really only half that strong in pvp then that makes it about 2% stronger in competitive modes over reapers could shoulder trait assuming you have max stacks. The only saving grace i see for harbinger right now is boon splatter applications in endgame content and maybe another condi option as reaper does not have a condition damage modifier to compete with harbingers but socurge does.... and i have to wonder if condi scourge will still do more damage than it does honestly.

 

While I too want to wait till tomorrow to get my hands on it to see what the numbers look like and how well the skills work its hard not to be skeptical from what we were shown on friday. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by ZDragon.3046

[Infusion.7149]

How is it broken?

We have a very vague idea about the full DPS potential let alone the DPS potential of the quickness sharing harbinger. The modifier on harbinger appears to be capped at 25% for condition/power in shroud which is not a huge modifier if you run quickness sharing with Deathly Haste (2.25s duration in the preview with supposedly 37% boon duration). I would say that using Deathly Haste probably will result in a loss of damage as you lose pulsing 3 stacks of torment per interval of 3s. This is similar to 1 torment stack per second while in shroud , with torment nearing 300DPS x 6.75 seconds duration per preview = 2K DPS before modifiers.

Either way firebrands only need 25% boon duration (close to none in fractals due to omnipot) and don't need to deal with shroud. Party aegis on 12s cooldown is also far stronger than some swiftness. Shroud is liability even if you can be healed because whoever if full on heals in your squad will not have an accurate gauge of how close you are to downing.

If anything the harbinger quickness would compete with power quickness scrapper or StM chrono at best (due to boon rip) while providing might with Blood is Power. Those require more timing than just spamming mantras off cooldown.

 

I'd wait for tomorrow before jumping to any conclusions, especially when the fragility of harbinger has not been seen in reality.

P.S. You won't run Diviner's on it because the power coefficients currently are not very high.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

For most people its because they dont trust anet to get the risk/reward balance correct. Espcially if there will end up being other classes that do similar numbers or  BETTER numbers without any of the risk at all. Then it will seem like they just threw it on for a thematic purpose and not a class mechanic purpose which is exactly what blight looks like right now because it has no positive effect at any stack count with no traits applied. Even once you apply a trait there is only a  single trait that does anything for having it. If they designed it closer to how Holo heat build up works less people would be skeptical about it honestly. Cmc talked about payout for building blight but there is really hardly any

a 25% damage mod at max stacks is not that big a deal its 10% more than reapers damage mod at max stacks and for reaper the only requirement is having a target chilled. and if its really only half that strong in pvp then that makes it about 2% stronger in competitive modes over reapers could shoulder trait assuming you have max stacks. The only saving grace i see for harbinger right now is boon splatter applications in endgame content and maybe another condi option as reaper does not have a condition damage modifier to compete with harbingers but socurge does.... and i have to wonder if condi scourge will still do more damage than it does honestly.

 

While I too want to wait till tomorrow to get my hands on it to see what the numbers look like and how well the skills work its hard not to be skeptical from what we were shown on friday. 

 

You're wrong on what you focus and even on the reaper's number...

 

If you want useless number crunch: Reaper offer 15% increase of strike damage on chilled foes in PvE (10% in PvP) and 10% when those foes are within the range, which make 26.5% damage modifier in PvE (21% in PvP). Reaper also offer 300 ferocity or 20% crit damage while in shroud while Harbinger will offer anywhere between 47 ferocity and 619 ferocity (619 is the theoretical ceiling for full vit gear + rune of the wurm, a totally useless setup but it hold value in it's possibility and the fact that lich form and it's 1000 precision exist). In PvP with maraudeur amulet and the PvE current values of the traits you could get 443 ferocity out of the trait (close to 30% crit damage). Theoretically, with the actual known numbers, you get close to 17% more worth of maximum damage modifier out of the power traitline in PvP and they are not gated behind shroud.

 

What is worth to note on the harbinger:

- Slow (5-6s) on the elixir trait (knowing how PvP players hated on slow for the chronomancer this is a dangerous amount)

- Elite Elixir give 25 might stacks and 5 stab. (Mesmer's stolen skill but better! Worse, imagine 5 full buffed 25 might/fury quickness minions attacking in PvP... lol)

- AoE weakness on pistol#3 + AoE weakness on condi GM (Everyone know how PvP player love to be weaken right?)

- Lf to health while out of shroud that we don't know yet if it's affected by thing like healing power or healing modifier (Vital persistence say Hi! Sage amulet could make your day if it is the case).

- Up to 25% condition damage modifier (this is unprecedented).

- Transfusion that can be proc'd every 9-10s and heal you for 4.4K with sage amulet (probably closer to 5k+ thank to last rites/vital persistence).

- Broken synergy between Eternal life and the LF to health mechanism.

- If you're at high blight, you have less health to recover and can make use of the necromancer big heal to hit the cap faster and gain barrier thanks to blood bank.

- ... etc.

 

I can foresee abuse everywhere and ANet have yet to communicate about the new runesets that will come along the elite specs... Seriously players are worried about the survivability of the spec? As it stand it's a monster of survivability, not even counting the mobility and CC creep.

[LucianDK.8615]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

You're wrong on what you focus and even on the reaper's number...

 

If you want useless number crunch: Reaper offer 15% increase of strike damage on chilled foes in PvE (10% in PvP) and 10% when those foes are within the range, which make 26.5% damage modifier in PvE (21% in PvP). Reaper also offer 300 ferocity or 20% crit damage while in shroud while Harbinger will offer anywhere between 47 ferocity and 619 ferocity (619 is the theoretical ceiling for full vit gear + rune of the wurm, a totally useless setup but it hold value in it's possibility and the fact that lich form and it's 1000 precision exist). In PvP with maraudeur amulet and the PvE current values of the traits you could get 443 ferocity out of the trait (close to 30% crit damage). Theoretically, with the actual known numbers, you get close to 17% more worth of maximum damage modifier out of the power traitline in PvP and they are not gated behind shroud.

 

What is worth to note on the harbinger:

- Slow (5-6s) on the elixir trait (knowing how PvP players hated on slow for the chronomancer this is a dangerous amount)

- Elite Elixir give 25 might stacks and 5 stab. (Mesmer's stolen skill but better! Worse, imagine 5 full buffed 25 might/fury quickness minions attacking in PvP... lol)

- AoE weakness on pistol#3 + AoE weakness on condi GM (Everyone know how PvP player love to be weaken right?)

- Lf to health while out of shroud that we don't know yet if it's affected by thing like healing power or healing modifier (Vital persistence say Hi! Sage amulet could make your day if it is the case).

- Up to 25% condition damage modifier (this is unprecedented).

- Transfusion that can be proc'd every 9-10s and heal you for 4.4K with sage amulet (probably closer to 5k+ thank to last rites/vital persistence).

- Broken synergy between Eternal life and the LF to health mechanism.

- If you're at high blight, you have less health to recover and can make use of the necromancer big heal to hit the cap faster and gain barrier thanks to blood bank.

- ... etc.

 

I can foresee abuse everywhere and ANet have yet to communicate about the new runesets that will come along the elite specs... Seriously players are worried about the survivability of the spec? As it stand it's a monster of survivability, not even counting the mobility and CC creep.

 

What you say helps nothing against 1shots due to low health.

[ZDragon.3046]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

You're wrong on what you focus and even on the reaper's number...

 

If you want useless number crunch: Reaper offer 15% increase of strike damage on chilled foes in PvE (10% in PvP) and 10% when those foes are within the range, which make 26.5% damage modifier in PvE (21% in PvP). Reaper also offer 300 ferocity or 20% crit damage while in shroud while Harbinger will offer anywhere between 47 ferocity and 619 ferocity (619 is the theoretical ceiling for full vit gear + rune of the wurm, a totally useless setup but it hold value in it's possibility and the fact that lich form and it's 1000 precision exist). In PvP with maraudeur amulet and the PvE current values of the traits you could get 443 ferocity out of the trait (close to 30% crit damage). Theoretically, with the actual known numbers, you get close to 17% more worth of maximum damage modifier out of the power traitline in PvP and they are not gated behind shroud.

 

What is worth to note on the harbinger:

- Slow (5-6s) on the elixir trait (knowing how PvP players hated on slow for the chronomancer this is a dangerous amount)

- Elite Elixir give 25 might stacks and 5 stab. (Mesmer's stolen skill but better! Worse, imagine 5 full buffed 25 might/fury quickness minions attacking in PvP... lol)

- AoE weakness on pistol#3 + AoE weakness on condi GM (Everyone know how PvP player love to be weaken right?)

- Lf to health while out of shroud that we don't know yet if it's affected by thing like healing power or healing modifier (Vital persistence say Hi! Sage amulet could make your day if it is the case).

- Up to 25% condition damage modifier (this is unprecedented).

- Transfusion that can be proc'd every 9-10s and heal you for 4.4K with sage amulet (probably closer to 5k+ thank to last rites/vital persistence).

- Broken synergy between Eternal life and the LF to health mechanism.

- If you're at high blight, you have less health to recover and can make use of the necromancer big heal to hit the cap faster and gain barrier thanks to blood bank.

- ... etc.

 

I can foresee abuse everywhere and ANet have yet to communicate about the new runesets that will come along the elite specs... Seriously players are worried about the survivability of the spec? As it stand it's a monster of survivability, not even counting the mobility and CC creep.

My point still stands no matter how refined you crunch the numbers

 

number 1 

I said that it was only a 10% damage difference in case you didnt notice the power damage modifer for harbinger goes up to 25% which only effects strike damage if the reaper modifier is 15% what is the difference between these 2 numbers... ITS 10%. i DONT NEED A MATH BREAKDOWN to understand this. To take it a step further I even pointed out that the condition one is likely a bit better because of the fact that reaper does not have a condition damage modifier but i guess you missed that in any case the double negative of no hp protection, bad utility design, and blight effects is not worth an effective 10% strike damage modifier.

 

Where you start trying to quantify vitality can honestly stop because effectively people who want to run it for dps wont invest in vitality especially with power damage. With power damage in most cases players want to optimize damage not and doing a run around through a percentage of vitality is a waste of stats. Players will not do this... you know this.... You do have a good point about ferocity that is locked behind reaper shroud but even then thats that is still a bit of a loss. Even with harbingers's vitality trait that grants ferocity the bonus still may not in total warrant the current double or triple negative risk built into the class which is why people are skeptical about it to start with. 

Regardless if the number is 10% or 17% thats not enough on its own to warrant what was shown in most peoples eyes. Honestly the number could be 25% and it still might not be enough if the base skill numbers are not good enough. Every player is expecting harbinger to be a flop or to be so grossly overpowered that it will be nerfed. While other classes get similar numbers without the risk.

 

- The LF to healing is honestly  probably not enough to warrant the drop of defenses either. That felt like an after thought to blights negative effects ideally its heat therapy with a different flavor more than likely. Even if you combine this with something like Vital persistence and good stats its still kinda crap imo. If its strong it will be culled if its weak its not worth the loss of hp protection or negative health as a side result.

 

- Elite elixir is still trash. Necro has never had an issue getting itself to 25 might so this is nothing. Its more might not a big deal every single elite ever added to necro has added a way to get might...THIS IS NOT IMPRESSIVE OR INNOVATIVE OR NEW. Further more the might he gain was super short duration and he had nearly 40% boon duration. The 5 stab hardly matters either in all honesty its something you gain after the skill goes off not as a break stun the stab is nothing... ideally best case you pop it for stab before you know you will be stunned... ok... chill to the bone.... ok lich... you can do both of these options for the same reason and likely achieve better payout with the overall goal as one offers cc while the other damage and healing if needed through grim spector. The best part is both these options do this without eating  your MAXIMUM HP BY 20%. 

 

- The aoe weakness on pistol is not a big deal short duration who cares its nice its not that nice. The GM on the other hand is one of the few saving graces of what was shown. Its likely to be the strongest of all the grand masters in terms of offensive power and pvp options The torment damage alone makes it more worth than the power option 

 

- 25% condition damage modifier is nice but again one of the only saving graces of this entire classes kit at least in pve. Thats only because as I mentioned there is no other modifier that competes with it which likely means that most dps builds for this class will fall to condi instead of power. That said there will still be the drop off from damage when it comes to  especially in pvp where you have room to slot the vitality more easily. without sacrificing too much damage. oh wait in pvp its only going to be 12%.... assuming you have max stacks which you probably never should in pvp... but ok.... 

 

- Eternal life and the passive hp restore is possibly going to be broken but applications for that will likely only fall to pvp assuming the class can even survive in pvp having next to no self mitigation aside from core skill like spectral armor. 

 

- Blood bank likely wont function as an advantage as you think it would due to how barrier also scales on current maximum hp ideally it wont be better than just the raw base protection that core and reaper shrouds offer  it never was and it still wont be. Best case situation you use this in open world where people wont care how it performs... you wont use this in situations where dps matters like raids, and fractals, and in pvp you would be better off just taking scourge, core, or reaper if you need better sustain options.

 

While yes somethings will be abused thats going to happen with every class and the abuse points you pointed out are nothing compared to things pointed out for mesmer and guardian... ESPCIALLY GUARDIAN.... so please... it should be easy to undertsand why people are looking at this elite with ????????

 

[Asum.4960]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

You're wrong on what you focus and even on the reaper's number...

 

If you want useless number crunch: Reaper offer 15% increase of strike damage on chilled foes in PvE (10% in PvP) and 10% when those foes are within the range, which make 26.5% damage modifier in PvE (21% in PvP). Reaper also offer 300 ferocity or 20% crit damage while in shroud while Harbinger will offer anywhere between 47 ferocity and 619 ferocity (619 is the theoretical ceiling for full vit gear + rune of the wurm, a totally useless setup but it hold value in it's possibility and the fact that lich form and it's 1000 precision exist). In PvP with maraudeur amulet and the PvE current values of the traits you could get 443 ferocity out of the trait (close to 30% crit damage). Theoretically, with the actual known numbers, you get close to 17% more worth of maximum damage modifier out of the power traitline in PvP and they are not gated behind shroud.

 

What is worth to note on the harbinger:

- Slow (5-6s) on the elixir trait (knowing how PvP players hated on slow for the chronomancer this is a dangerous amount)

- Elite Elixir give 25 might stacks and 5 stab. (Mesmer's stolen skill but better! Worse, imagine 5 full buffed 25 might/fury quickness minions attacking in PvP... lol)

- AoE weakness on pistol#3 + AoE weakness on condi GM (Everyone know how PvP player love to be weaken right?)

- Lf to health while out of shroud that we don't know yet if it's affected by thing like healing power or healing modifier (Vital persistence say Hi! Sage amulet could make your day if it is the case).

- Up to 25% condition damage modifier (this is unprecedented).

- Transfusion that can be proc'd every 9-10s and heal you for 4.4K with sage amulet (probably closer to 5k+ thank to last rites/vital persistence).

- Broken synergy between Eternal life and the LF to health mechanism.

- If you're at high blight, you have less health to recover and can make use of the necromancer big heal to hit the cap faster and gain barrier thanks to blood bank.

- ... etc.

 

I can foresee abuse everywhere and ANet have yet to communicate about the new runesets that will come along the elite specs... Seriously players are worried about the survivability of the spec? As it stand it's a monster of survivability, not even counting the mobility and CC creep.

Harbinger has the potential to be an absolutely sustain beast, don't get me wrong - but in order to benefit from sustain you need to be alive. 

If you see the enemy team having a Harbinger you can roll up with a Soulbeast, Deadeye, or Virtuoso etc. and likely snipe them in <2 seconds from 1200-1500 range all game.

Alternatively, jump them as Shiro Rev, Willbender, DD, what have you, and sheer insta cc and nuke them all match as well for a free 5v4. 

If Harbinger has extreme damage, it might be able to farm players in low Gold and below (kind of like an even squishier Fresh Air Ele, which at least had double Arcane Shield) - or for the first one or two weeks until people know to hard focus it, otherwise it will be an instant shut down target.

 

I don't see how Flesh Wurm, CPC and a 0.5 second evade leap, or what will likely be 1-3 seconds of all boons in competitive every 60 seconds from the Elite will be even remotely enough. 

Reaper, unless babysat and LF snowballing, already is pretty dang glassy in PvP, and that's with 400+% extra effective health compared to Blighted Harbinger. 

Without focus break (Invuln, Stealth/detarget, Damage to heal conversion, duration Block, evade spam etc.), I have no idea how this amount of glassyness is supposed to work - even if it had enough sustain to heal from 1-100% every 3 seconds or something insane like it, it'll simply be focus nuked every time it pokes it's head out of spawn. 

 

They may as well rename "Rapid Fire" to "Press to delete Harbinger" in PvP^^

Edited August 16, 2021 by Asum.4960

[jpsssss.7530]

I see it. I also see a character who's more paper than an ele, with a worse heal skill, with one mobility skill. You'll die to my guardian before you can even react.

[Wintermute.5408]

2 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

I said that it was only a 10% damage difference in case you didnt notice the power damage modifer for harbinger goes up to 25% which only effects strike damage if the reaper modifier is 15% what is the difference between these 2 numbers... ITS 10%. i DONT NEED A MATH BREAKDOWN to understand this.

You do need to take a look at Reaper though, because there is no 10% difference in meta damage setup. You get 15% on chilled and 10% on close range. Meanwhile, HB gets to full 25 only after deleting half his health. Realistically, he'll fluctuate below that number for big parts of fight. Which means Reaper actually has better damage modifiers, as it's melee spec and chill is abundant. Yay -_-

 

Meanwhile, Scourge gets longer condi duration from shades (can't be arsed to calculate damage inrease from it), and 25% dmg increase on torment just for existing. So condi HB doesn't look that appaling either.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Wintermute.5408

[ZDragon.3046]

5 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

You do need to take a look at Reaper though, because there is no 10% difference in meta damage setup. You get 15% on chilled and 10% on close range. Meanwhile, HB gets to full 25 only after deleting half his health. Realistically, he'll fluctuate below that number for big parts of fight. Which means Reaper actually has better damage modifiers, as it's melee spec and chill is abundant. Yay -_-

 

Meanwhile, Scourge gets longer condi duration from shades (can't be arsed to calculate damage inrease from it), and 25% dmg increase on torment just for existing. So condi HB doesn't look that appaling either.

Good point i actually forgot to consider the close range modifier on the what use to be the greatsword trait welp... here is hoping that harbinger power will work otherwise looks like ill be continuing to play power reaper till the end of time lol. 

 

I really wanted a new power spec too....shame... a viable power spec closer to core would have been nice  but i guess we will find out tomorrow. 

[Ashur.6403]

10 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

For most people its because they dont trust anet to get the risk/reward balance correct.

 

 

This right here. 

 

I lost all hope with the balance team after their solution to the then condi damage problem was to add dhuumfire.  Which was the immediately nerfed the next patch and then followed up by nerfing our other conditions to make up for adding it.  8 years later and I'm still mad about it.

 

*edit* looks like my memory was fuzzy.  Only scepter 2 was nerfed in the few months after dhuumfire was added.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ashur.6403

[Dadnir.5038]

13 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

If you see the enemy team having a Harbinger you can roll up with a Soulbeast, Deadeye, or Virtuoso etc. and likely snipe them in <2 seconds from 1200-1500 range all game.

The thing is that if you're sniped from 1200-1500 range in 1v1, the harbinger will likely not have any blight on him so he would likely have 22k+ Hp (and even more likely close to 30k hp because he will have taken wizard, swashbuckler, sage or marauder amulet). Sure, you have high probability to fall if there is someone that come as a +1 to snipe you from afar while you are fighting it out with another character, but the risks are the same for every single professions.

 

I mean, if someone deal 30k on you in less than 2 seconds from 1200-1500 range, you wouldn't have survived with any profession anyway... Keep in mind that you'll only lower your max health pool while fighting it out within your own range of attack.

[ZDragon.3046]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The thing is that if you're sniped from 1200-1500 range in 1v1, the harbinger will likely not have any blight on him so he would likely have 22k+ Hp (and even more likely close to 30k hp because he will have taken wizard, swashbuckler, sage or marauder amulet). Sure, you have high probability to fall if there is someone that come as a +1 to snipe you from afar while you are fighting it out with another character, but the risks are the same for every single professions.

 

I mean, if someone deal 30k on you in less than 2 seconds from 1200-1500 range, you wouldn't have survived with any profession anyway... Keep in mind that you'll only lower your max health pool while fighting it out within your own range of attack.

Dragon hunters lmao.... yes it is possible to be pulled or pushed through a trap that crits you for 11k and then eat a true shot for 11k this does not include followup damage from the other 2-3 team members they will have around either. There are also things like cheeky thief burst and ranger burst as well that easily spike up to 20k+ on light armor target in 2-3 seconds somtimes less if you get the right crits in a row. The difference being that shroud technically should you could have any life force prevent this as damage is cut in half 30k dps turns into 15k or less for a class that has no blocks and limited evades, no stealth, etc depending on if you had protection or were holding onto infusing terror which is very very much survivable. Harbinger has one extra mobility skill than the other elite specs that has a short evade attached sadly its on the vault animation which is generally not good for avoiding attacks on reaction. (tried this on thief many times in the past) 

 

Mara likely wont be enough hp to cover the lack of defensive options anet didnt put into harbingers kit and allow you to live long enough to get any real power damage out but hey ill certainly give it a try.

A likely build you will probably see is carrion which would get you close to that 30k hp range while offering condition dps at the same time which is much safer to fire off and start running away/ kiting where you dont have to hard commit for your dps on a target.

 

Either way lets start playing and really get a good feel for it right after that we can come back and have a conversation on where it sits.