I think cm (fractals, potentially strikes) content should not have the dmg boost for succesfully breaking the breakbar.

[zealex.9410]

The point of the breakbar is to give you a chance to counter a deadly attack before it can happen, on top of that the boss gets stunned for a period of time which allows for recovery or free dmg on the boss, these things already make cc valueable in cms and rewarding and a priority, we dont need a frankly insane dmg multiplier that just melts bosses on cm content (the reason raids also dont have this).

I dont have an issue with it in non cm content altho imo it trivialises the content very badly (dungeons post the breakbar adition) but cm content isnt there to be another normal fractal or normal strike and providing "challenge" is their intent. 

Fractal and strike cms should require the group to be able to cc because otherwise you risk wiping, not because the fight doesnt get trivialised if you fail ccing.

Edited August 16, 2021 by zealex.9410

[Janitsu.6284]

Do you perchance run a healer in fractals? If you do, you are already doing much more to trivialise the content than breaking a breakbar that gives you a damage bonus. Bonus points if you happen to play a class with self-sustain.

 

Breakbar damage boost is one of those things that separate a good and a bad group. Others use Exposed very poorly and therefore the content ends up just throwing mechanics after mechanics at you. Other groups know to utilise it to the point where they actually play around it. Also CC fail oneshots would literally just enforce people to run more CC, nothing more. There isn't anything really skillful tied to breaking defiance bars. In strikes you have the special action key that does the CC for you.

[Nephalem.8921]

2 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said:

Do you perchance run a healer in fractals? If you do, you are already doing much more to trivialise the content than breaking a breakbar that gives you a damage bonus. Bonus points if you happen to play a class with self-sustain.

 

Breakbar damage boost is one of those things that separate a good and a bad group. Others use Exposed very poorly and therefore the content ends up just throwing mechanics after mechanics at you. Other groups know to utilise it to the point where they actually play around it. Also CC fail oneshots would literally just enforce people to run more CC, nothing more. There isn't anything really skillful tied to breaking defiance bars. In strikes you have the special action key that does the CC for you.

There isnt anything skillfull in breaking a bar and doing 120k+ dps as a reward either. CM fractals are so easy at this point that it feels like lfr from wow.

Normal dungeons from ff14 are harder than current state of fractals. There is too much damage and power creep in the game and burst into exposed is part of the problem. It would be different if its a nice way to align burst but current phases are just breakbar -> end of phase. This also invalidates classes with no real burst or slow rampup.

What mechanic after mechanic is thrown at you? Most fractal bosses dont even have more than 2.

[Janitsu.6284]

6 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

There isnt anything skillfull in breaking a bar and doing 120k+ dps as a reward either. CM fractals are so easy at this point that it feels like lfr from wow.

Normal dungeons from ff14 are harder than current state of fractals. There is too much damage and power creep in the game and burst into exposed is part of the problem. It would be different if its a nice way to align burst but current phases are just breakbar -> end of phase. This also invalidates classes with no real burst or slow rampup.

What mechanic after mechanic is thrown at you? Most fractal bosses dont even have more than 2.

It's another layer of modifiers that you can play around. I do agree that damage is quite abundant in the game, but breakbar (especially in its current state) is hardly the issue. (ofc not talking about Condi breakbar because that is just busted for 0).

[WindBlade.8749]

Thing is breakbar is what make the gamemode gameplay unique, remove that it's it's not fractals cm anymore.

That litteraly what all the structure of what fractals is since day 1 of cm

[Vidit.7108]

They took the break bar away from Aquatic Ruins and it made the fight into an obnoxious slog. Siren's Reef doesn't have breakbars on the final bosses and it it's the worst fractal. Removing their damage boost isn't going to make things more challenging it's going to make them more tedious.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Vidit.7108

[Noodle Ant.1605]

i dont think its so much about the damage boost, but rather ‘when’ the breakbar is available

 

most frac bosses in question have their breakbar open questionably early into the encounter for absolutely no reason. similarly, youd think some of the bosses would be smarter than to open every phase channeling  their wiping skill of doom, which takes an eternity to complete, whilst outputting very negligible pressure onto the players - basically only to fail 95% of the time and freely allow players to hit them harder

itd be more appropriate to have the breakbar locked more commonly than not, and only briefly vulnerable during a moment of intended opportunity (e.g. archdiviner during its aoe slam) - but never at the beginning of the fight, nor the start of each phase

 

because it might not be worthwhile to address existing fractals, id just recommend for just future content (in general, not just limited to endgame pve instanced content) to have bosses who dont expose themselves quite as much or as predictably

[Moradorin.6217]

On 8/16/2021 at 4:58 AM, zealex.9410 said:

The point of the breakbar is to give you a chance to counter a deadly attack before it can happen, on top of that the boss gets stunned for a period of time which allows for recovery or free dmg on the boss, these things already make cc valueable in cms and rewarding and a priority, we dont need a frankly insane dmg multiplier that just melts bosses on cm content (the reason raids also dont have this).

I dont have an issue with it in non cm content altho imo it trivialises the content very badly (dungeons post the breakbar adition) but cm content isnt there to be another normal fractal or normal strike and providing "challenge" is their intent. 

Fractal and strike cms should require the group to be able to cc because otherwise you risk wiping, not because the fight doesnt get trivialised if you fail ccing.

I dont rly see a point in suggesting breaking the breakbar shouldnt have the normal benefits in cm mode. I mean sure they could remove it, but then they would just have to re-tune the encounter/boss health to the loss of dps. I dont see how it would actually change anything other than a need for stuff like impact sigils. 😉

[zealex.9410]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:54 PM, Janitsu.6284 said:

Do you perchance run a healer in fractals? If you do, you are already doing much more to trivialise the content than breaking a breakbar that gives you a damage bonus. Bonus points if you happen to play a class with self-sustain.

 

Breakbar damage boost is one of those things that separate a good and a bad group. Others use Exposed very poorly and therefore the content ends up just throwing mechanics after mechanics at you. Other groups know to utilise it to the point where they actually play around it. Also CC fail oneshots would literally just enforce people to run more CC, nothing more. There isn't anything really skillful tied to breaking defiance bars. In strikes you have the special action key that does the CC for you.

Healers are whatever outside of the dmg and utility benefits they bring to the group the healing itself is not the biggest factor. I mean with enough experience you just tent to not get hit unecessarily.

[zealex.9410]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:08 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

I dont rly see a point in suggesting breaking the breakbar shouldnt have the normal benefits in cm mode. I mean sure they could remove it, but then they would just have to re-tune the encounter/boss health to the loss of dps. I dont see how it would actually change anything other than a need for stuff like impact sigils. 😉

I just think the dmg boost trivialises the encounter much more than needed and simply stunning the boss and interupting its attack in cm is enough of a reward. To me its a matter of it makimg fractals cm unecessarily easy so at least for me i dont want to see any hp rebalance because wbat we have is already easier than it should imo.

 

Fractals have multiple dificulties anyways so the idea that cms should have this is bizzare.

[anbujackson.9564]

+1 for removing/nerfing exposed.

 

Its just not right to skip mechanic after mechanic just because the boss melts so fast. Why bother designing new fractals if powercreep makes the designed mechanics redundant anyway? Just look at AI. I bet the developers surely are encouraged to make more unique encounter mechanics which are simply skipped because of their questionable balance choices. I sure as hell wouldnt be.

 

Its easier to rework this than increasing boss hp or waiting for all op classes to be nerfed, so the end game content actually feels like endgame.