Lingering Curse discussion

[Anchoku.8142]

When Lingering Curse is changed to broaden its coverage tomorrow, comment on how the change impacted the various weapons' skills. Many skills will not be affected but there may be some surprises; for example, staff or torch.

[The Boz.2038]

+200 Condition Damage is a boost, but not a paradigm shift. I think you may be misreading the trait or the change. The +50% Condition Duration boost for Scepter skills is not being decoupled, according to the notes.

[Anchoku.8142]

If Arenanet opened both Lingering Curse and Dhuumfire, they might as well split them between game modes so I wonder, too, if Dhuumfire could be linked to LC.

 

Maybe the changes will amount to nearly nothing for other weapons but Lingering Curse could easily be used to "fix" some of Necro's off-hand and utility weapons and become a trait multiplier for more scaling between builds.

 

Edit

Lingering Curse could also become a look-up table modifying weapons or skills individually. While Arenanet said no such thing, it is not impossible in the future. Signets of Suffering and Master of Corruption are examples.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Anchoku.8142

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I don't really understand... I keep hearing about this buffing torch. Doesn't the trait say that when holding a scepter your condi damage is increased by 200? Taking away the scepter part doesn't make EACH hand give 200 condi damage (aka you won't get an EXTRA 200 on torch.). When holding a scepter you just get 200 extra condi damage which should also apply to torch currently right? It opens up weapon swap options but I don't think we will see a torch damage increase. 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

22 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

I don't really understand... I keep hearing about this buffing torch. Doesn't the trait say that when holding a scepter your condi damage is increased by 200? Taking away the scepter part doesn't make EACH hand give 200 condi damage (aka you won't get an EXTRA 200 on torch.). When holding a scepter you just get 200 extra condi damage which should also apply to torch currently right? It opens up weapon swap options but I don't think we will see a torch damage increase. 

Correct.  Torch skills will now deal the same damage when paired with an Axe as a Scepter (assuming same stat combo).

[Dadnir.5038]

This change mean:

- Staff conditions will deal more damage (It's especially true alongside terror and deathly chill).

- GS Bleeds through deathly chill will be stronger.

- You'll be able to use any weapon in main hand without losing 200 cdamage on the conditions you apply with all your skills.

- I'm not sure if lingering curse's condition damage bonus was kept while in shroud before but, now, it will (potential increase on dhuumfire damage for example).

 

The necromancer's spec that's the big winner of the patch is cReaper.

[ZDragon.3046]

in short its a buff to every weapon and shroud skill that deals condition damage but not much of a buff.

The fact that they did this is huge and now gives the ability a lot more weight over the other two options.

 

That said it shouldnt be touched anymore.

Yes lingering curses condition damage will be kept in shroud as that is simply another weapon.

For core its a staff

For reaper its a hammer 

you should get the 200 condition damage but still its only 200 condition damage a small boost nothing big.

[Asum.4960]

37 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

- I'm not sure if lingering curse's condition damage bonus was kept while in shroud before but, now, it will (potential increase on dhuumfire damage for example).

It currently does not, with Core Shroud being a Staff, and Reaper Shroud being a Hammer. 

 

Nice to see this change, although I still hope they expand the special skill functionality to some other weapons as well. 

Esp. for Dagger, some Lingering Curse interaction making the AA and Life Siphon inflict some condis at the cost of some power coefficent could be nice.

[KrHome.1920]

1 hour ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

in short its a buff to every weapon and shroud skill that deals condition damage but not much of a buff.

The fact that they did this is huge and now gives the ability a lot more weight over the other two options.

 

That said it shouldnt be touched anymore.

Yes lingering curses condition damage will be kept in shroud as that is simply another weapon.

For core its a staff

For reaper its a hammer 

you should get the 200 condition damage but still its only 200 condition damage a small boost nothing big.

 

Core uses your currently selected weapon in shroud - not a staff. Your direct damage in core shroud is 10% higher when entering it while having staff selected compared to a one hand weapon as two hand weapons have a 10% higher multiplier.

 

Reaper does not have to deal with this nonsense. It always uses a hammer in shroud.

 

@topic:

Guys, don't overcomplicate this trait change.

From tomorrow on you will get a flat +200 condition damage and scepter skills will have a +50% duration, when selecting lingering curse. That's it.

[Aktium.9506]

It would be insanely busted if it flat out increased all base durations by 50% as well after it gets decoupled from Scepter.

[LucianDK.8615]

1 hour ago, Aktium.9506 said:

It would be insanely busted if it flat out increased all base durations by 50% as well after it gets decoupled from Scepter.

Lingering Curse (Curses) — Condition damage is increased while wielding a scepter. Conditions inflicted by scepter skills have longer durations, and Feast of Corruption becomes Devouring Darkness.

 

The scepter conditions is bleed and poison.    Out of those two only poison have relevance for the Harbinger if taking Septic Corruption.  Bleed and Poison would be fine as a cross weapon universal increase for a grandmaster trait.

Edited August 16, 2021 by LucianDK.8615

[Ashur.6403]

1 hour ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

The scepter conditions is bleed and poison.

 

 

The scepter's conditions are bleed, poison, cripple, and torment.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Ashur.6403

[Asum.4960]

2 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Lingering Curse (Curses) — Condition damage is increased while wielding a scepter. Conditions inflicted by scepter skills have longer durations, and Feast of Corruption becomes Devouring Darkness.

 

The scepter conditions is bleed and poison.    Out of those two only poison have relevance for the Harbinger if taking Septic Corruption.  Bleed and Poison would be fine as a cross weapon universal increase for a grandmaster trait.

Is there genuinely confusion about this? Lingering Curse never referred to the conditions that happen to be on Scepter, but increasing durations on Scepter skills 1-3 specifically. 

50% increased global condition duration would be way too much for a GM, let alone for multiple conditions. 

 

Lingering Curse is basically just aimed at making Scepter a viable weapon with it's duration increases, especially since they then scale with actual condition duration.

[Ashur.6403]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

50% increased global condition duration would be way too much for a GM, let alone for multiple conditions. 

 

 

While I agree that blanket 50% duration increase on all conditions (or even the above Bleed/Poison) would be broken as kitten, Fear of Death.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Ashur.6403

[Asum.4960]

9 minutes ago, Ashur.6403 said:

 

 

While I agree that blanket 50% duration increase on all conditions (or even the above Bleed/Poison) would be broken as kitten, Fear of Death.

Fear of Death is an extremely niche case of an extremely niche condition with extremely short base durations across the board^^

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Staff will still suck. No condi on auto = weak condi output no matter how you slice it.
GS will be a happy camper on condi reaper. Better hybrid damage (bleeds off chills when traited on various gs skills including autos).

Torch = no change, since it's almost always paired with scepter so the 200 condi boost was there before the change anyway, unless you run dagger outta desperate need for lf on a condi build..

Tbh,  the real winners aren't weapons, it's the utilities. Stuff like CPC, Well of Darkness (for condi reapers), epidemic, blood is power - all these are now unshackled from having to be used only when you're in your scepter weapon swap. With this both your dps rotation as well as situational use of these skills become more lenient. There is no longer a dps penalty for using them in "non scepter set"!

Edited August 17, 2021 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Pooh.6897]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:19 AM, Acyk.9671 said:

Staff is a really good utility weapon in pvp and wvw. It shouldn't be changed because it sucks in pve.

Staff should be changed so that it both accommodates PvE, PvP and WvW. All the other weapons (except maybe MH dagger) are viable in all three modes, so why not staff? If a weapon works very well in one game mode but not in the other ones, that's just bad design. It's not a WvW or PvE scenario, it should be WvW and PvE. Staff should be a weapon you could use just like scepter but with a different balance, and right now in PvE that's just not the case. You can't make a viable build around staff and that's a problem. Stop hoarding weapons for the gamemodes you specifically play.

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Pooh.6897]

1 hour ago, Acyk.9671 said:

I am not hoarding anything. I just don't want to take the risk of getting a worst version of a weapon after they redesigned it when it's already good in 2 game modes. That's all!

Sorry for that accusation, I got a bit heated. All I want for Anet is to have a clear direction for staff, because even though I spend a lot of time with staff I still couldn't tell you what kind of build it's supposed to work for.

Skill 1: Deals power damage, generates LF and penetrates targets. Okay, so this tells me Staff is supposed to be used for Power builds, attacking groups and help me get more shroud time. Cool.

Skill 2: A regen and a bleed. Uhm, okay? So eh, is Staff a condi support weapon? Is the regen there for the minions? Okay, so a support minionmancer condi build, Cool.

Skill 3: A poison and a chill. This supports the theory that staff is meant as a condi weapon. both conditions also weaken the enemy so it would fit as a support/minionmancer/condi weapon. Alright Cool.

Skill 4: Big power damage and a big condi transfer. So, is this meant to be used with corruption skills? So I can put a bunch of conditions on myself and then send them away with this skill? Okay, well that would be really good for condi builds. It would mean that I have to cut down on the amount of minions I can take but that's okay.

Skill 5: A Fear. Wow, that is unique! I can weaponize it with Terror and insidious Disruption for some condi damage.

 

So tell me, what is Staff meant to be? Is it meant as a condi weapon? Then why is there no condi damage on the AA? Is it a support weapon? Then why do the other skills not provide support? Is it a Power weapon? Then why does it so much with conditions?
 

edit: The only consistent feature Staff has is that it can hit a lot of people, which seems as a rather odd choice to design a weapon for. What I would like to see for necro staff is a clear direction, like guardian staff. On guardian staff, it is very clear that it’s meant to be a support weapon. Everything on guardian staff reflects that. But necro staff seems to contradict itself as it lacks a clear design direction.

Edited August 19, 2021 by jiggle puff.9347
Afterthoughts

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Pooh.6897]

Thanks for the lengthy response and the insight, @Acyk.9671. In that case the required changes for PvE could focus more around providing good support since Necro doesn't really have that yet. I'm thinking about a weapon that would cater to Support scourges for example. Staff could focus on providing support for allies with regen and barrier, while also including CC abilities that make it useful in WvW with good passive LF regen. That way, in PvE it could be a weapon that is great for (condi) support, while in WvW it would still be good for the things you listed. The support aspect of Staff wouldnt be very relevant for PvP/WvW while for PvE that could give it a purpose. Scourges that want to focus completely on support could take staff instead of scepter and really focus on providing support through regen, barrier, breakbar damage, possibly healing as well. They could change the AA to apply some heal or perhaps might to allies and some minor condi damage to enemies.

Edited August 19, 2021 by jiggle puff.9347

[Rym.1469]

They probably changed it to discourage just camping scepter in PvE. Wouldn't read too much into it.

[CratZII.5872]

While I obviously like getting a boost to my condition damage, I can't help but feel there is now a big flaw in the design where lingering curse now is always the best trait choice in this slot and therefore you will never touch the other options in curses anymore. 

 

Maybe the others need a rework of buff?

[Dadnir.5038]

15 minutes ago, CratZII.5872 said:

While I obviously like getting a boost to my condition damage, I can't help but feel there is now a big flaw in the design where lingering curse now is always the best trait choice in this slot and therefore you will never touch the other options in curses anymore. 

 

Maybe the others need a rework of buff?

 It was already the best trait choice in this slot because as long as you were going to go condition damage scepter and curse were already a given.

 

Also, the other 2 traits are very strong defensive option. They do not need buff, if they need something it's a situations where you'd want to take them (and, well, it's probably not gonna happen).

- For weakening shroud I feel that you'd need at least 1 adept and 1 master trait to favor strike damage in such a way that the traitline become a competitive "strike damage" option (The minor are already very interesting for strike damage but going power feel like a waste if there is no adept and master trait to push thing up a bit more).

- As for parasitic contagion, the theoretical sustain you can get from this trait is monstruous but, again, you seldom take curse for sustain. This is one of the rare traits that are bound to work better in PvE than in PvP as a condi tank option, however the necromancer lack some essential tools for being a competitive "tank" (Harbinger with it's current design might be able to somehow fix that, thought).