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I returned after 6 years and i found WvW Meta unfriendly for lonely players.


Reborn.2934
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i returned and i enjoined some wvw and i am thinking to stop it again because my old level 3 guild can't claim a... CAMP

i searched why and i saw that someone thought ( probably from the game's dev team ) the claiming of camps is a very serious business...

SERIOUSLY NOW? THE CAMPS? THAT A GLASS CANNON THIEF CAN CLEAN ONE IN 5-10 SECONDS ALONE ?

it seems, someone understood very wrong what we asked before 8 years.

we asked to expand the guild system (as you did), not to make the guild system exclusive for big guilds! also, the hypocrisy of the new guild system is that even someone full upgrades it the thief will continue clean the camp in 5-10 seconds if there is not someone around to defend or pull the defensive systems because and correct they are not automatic!

Personal
I don't want to speak to other people in any communication server when i am playing my games.
i don't want to listen the problems or other people when i am playing my games.
i don't want to have useless schedules in my life and i really don't want to have schedules for my games something that makes me not joining or trying to upgrade my personal or old guilds.
and
i don't want to take or give orders to other people that most of them are unknown to me

p.s. the funny part of what i saw after 6 years is that the most of the old players i saw still playing the game were the... roamers . i guess what mechanism they used to remain viable in this unfriendly for roamers new wvw claim system but for obvious reasons i will not write it now and i am old enough to not thinking games like ... a castle to conquer and probable i will quit again than trying upgrading the old guild with tricks.

sub-question: what are the minimum numbers of players for guild upgrades the stupid guild npc says that the 18 players of the guild is not enough? is that a govt secret?

Edited by Reborn.2934
added WvW Meta in title
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well, i guess the mechanics been never updated. it's, as u say, a joke that u cannot even claim camps with level0 guilds, as camps are sth every single class can clear without major effort, unless some gankers are hiding in the shadows.

 

notsure what u mean about game beeing roamer unfriendly... u don't rely on anyone as classic roamer. it got however easier for people to call others to gank you, as the warclaw exists. permanent superspeed basically. longer 1v1s may not stay 1v1s for too long

 

 

u get easy into any guild big enough to get claim options ^^ all the community guilds are likely yet over level 40

 

nah, there is a lot of older players in most strong guilds. just running under different guild names frequently. there isn't even that many classic roamers. its gankpacks and randoms that make the majority of players, or at least it feels alike often. running a combat-build is yet a lucky thing to find, when ur off the bigger groups.

 

people just running under the public radar with hidden tags by now, because actually it is more of a hindering for smaller groups (like, if u lost numbers after a guildraid from 25 -> 15 or 10) to have these totally not in fights interested random players around u, who will just give away your position early and rally the enemy players.

 

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5 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

it seems, someone understood very wrong what we asked before 8 years.

returning player here . You are totally correct, and I understand your frustration as I'd like to use my own solo guild to get banners and claim objectives but no, Anet decided to throw veteran players under the bus and allow only large guilds to do the business (it doesn't matter if their numbers are mostly made with pve players: quantity over quality is their motto, like in real life). Who knows, maybe in the next decade they will finally separate WvW guilds from PvE guilds, and tie the power of a guild to the actual highest ranking member in the guild itself.

One can dream, it's still free

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6 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

Personal
I don't want to speak to other people in any communication server when i am playing my games.
i don't want to listen the problems or other people when i am playing my games.
i don't want to have useless schedules in my life and i really don't want to have schedules for my games something that makes me not joining or trying to upgrade my personal or old guilds.
and
i don't want to take or give orders to other people that most of them are unknown to me

I think the most misunderstanding person here (excluding devs obviously), is you. The game youre playing, MMO-RPG, maybe you should lookup what it stands for. If you dont want to socialize with other players you should play RPGs. Or if you want to enjoy story (xD) then play PvE only - Id highly recommend FF14 since it actually has something interesting to offer compared to gw2. 

If some1 says that he doesnt want to communicate with other players, doesnt want to make friends, doesnt want to join guilds and do raids/stuff together, doesnt want to cooperate with other players, and then he says that he plays MMO...like wtf just happend here, lmao

Edited by Widmo.3186
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  • Reborn.2934 changed the title to I returned after 6 years and i found WvW Meta unfriendly for lonely players.
12 minutes ago, Reborn.2934 said:

 

when i did it 1st time yesterday, i started feeling that i have no place as player in WvW anymore

 

 

i didn't wanted to make my initial post melodramatic but you should open your mind asap because you just became racist against ...

 

voiceless and deaf people

 

how a human without the ability to communicate can use communicate apps that is a REQUIREMENT for any wvw guild ?

 

why these "excellent" game designers are excluding these people from WvW meta?

 

p.s. LMAO = Large MAO ? now, makes sense what you wrote....

Stop playing the deaf card. It's despicable that you would use this condition to shift a topic and point blame at others.

 

There are enough deaf people who manage just fine and overcome this condition, many of which do not need to win some argument on a forum by playing the victim.

 

If you are deaf or have other disabilities, well that was not made clear in your initial statement, nor should it influence the conversation (unless you want special treatment, and trust me, special treatment you can get). On the contrary, you made it abundantly clear that you were more interested in going at this game alone instead of cooperating with others. There are many guilds which would gladly take up players, no matter if disabled or not, even in WvW.

 

You got back into a game which is designed for many players which you have basically no clue of since you've not engaged with the game for over 6 years. You come complain on the forums and then pull the disabled card when you do not like what others have to say. Here is an idea: catch up and re-acclimate yourself with the game first before starting to complain.

 

Could this game benefit from having certain design elements to help with certain disabilities? Sure. Those won't get added by some one raging or making things up on the forum though. If you want to make a case for deaf players, make a constructive topic about it and present ideas and don't go using a disability to somehow give an opinion credit.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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21 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Here is an idea: catch up and re-acclimate yourself with the game first before starting to complain.

WvW in general, but small guilds + veterans problem in particular, are in a terrifying condition. No amount of "if and buts" will change this, so if someone else express disappointment the sole reasonable reply (not just from players but from devs especially) should "yes, you're right. Now we'll truly listen and come up with ways to fix this mess".

Infighting brings nothing to the table and just distracts from the core problem

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43 minutes ago, Reborn.2934 said:

you should open your mind asap because you just became racist against ...

 

voiceless and deaf people

I think you need to go look up the word "racist" in a dictionary. 

 

Just saying. Its always good to educate yourself on the meaning of words before using them in a word sallad.

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30 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

WvW in general, but small guilds + veterans problem in particular, are in a terrifying condition. No amount of "if and buts" will change this, so if someone else express disappointment the sole reasonable reply (not just from players but from devs especially) should "yes, you're right. Now we'll truly listen and come up with ways to fix this mess".

Infighting brings nothing to the table and just distracts from the core problem

 

You make it out as though it is impossible to get a personal guild to where it provides useful WvW buffs or claiming. That's simply not true.

 

I have a personal guild (and by personal I mean I claimed it solo and have advanced it solo on my own without any one elses help). It's advanced far enough to claim camps with most WvW related upgrades. I know others who have done the same. In fact I know quite a few people who have sunk thousands of gold into their private guilds far beyond what one would need for WvW.

 

Most serious WvW players I know are part of multiple guilds all of which can claim and provide benefits. It is not uncommon to cycle through different guilds when claiming different objectives for additional supply without unclaiming an important objective.

 

The fact this can be soloed is beside the point though, given this mode is intended to be played with many people. Every player has 5 guild slots on top of that and most servers have server community guilds, sometimes multiple of them.

 

For anything else there are work arounds as mentioned by others: ask politely in map chat if someone can claim.

 

This is an absolute non issue to any player who is even remotely active in WvW and his server.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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also, deaf and voiceless people are able to communicate. just, not acustically/vocally, i suppose. mimics still exist, specific mimical language etc

 

___

 

about wvw... the communities did really struggle the later years. everything since i play in Wvw is just extremly stale, and the feb20 damage nerfs made it even worse. anet buffed blobs and zerg and indirectly even nerfed skill. u just cannot wipe 40 people with 10 anymore in most cases. even if u bomb perfectly at that size, nothing dies from one bomb (and even if 10 ppl die, the other 30 cc u literally to death)

 

the guilds mainly got bored of this. it is annoying, and not enough serious players came back to wvw. guilds rather recruit people from other pausing or dissolved guilds, less from the "unbound" / new, fresh or returning players.

 

people are unable to group up in a largescale based format.

 

and even more, some don't want to fight. people entering a pvp format for pvE rewards farm... this really hurts the system sorta.

 

as long as u swap maps when it gets queued, no one will really harass u verbally, unless they got issues with themselves. and even those getting verbally annoying, sometimes it's just emotions coming up. i mean, imagine discussing irl with potentially roughly 70*5 people (overflow map and armistice bastion can /t too afaik).

 

ofc, in reality it's way less since some people disable teamchat. if someone annoys u, make use of the block button instead of complaining.

 

____

about the guild claims: every wvw server has still a "community guild". u get free invite to it if u ask on teamchat and a general of it is online. those enable u to claim freely

besides, its not that claiming is a big thing. outside of garrison type keeps, no objective is really safe from some cheesy 3-5 people ppt-ninja roleplayers, who aim to flip unprotected keeps without engaging in anything but pvE. and they are even proud of that, weird enough

Edited by kamikharzeeh.8016
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I prefer it that way. Using lvl1 guilds to claim would allow people to just create 5 guilds and claim structures to add useless tactics on them. What can stop me to make a free account, level a character, go to your server and kitten your structures every reset?

 

Leveling a guild to the point of being able to claim camps is not that hard,I don't see the point in here and of course I disagree with the conclusion.

Edited by Telgum.6071
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if u want to troll, u always can. nobody can check who claimed or unclamed stuff, nor who put which tactics in

 

outside of that, most normal guilds let the tactics to be set open for anyone to fill in. it's a bit weird when people have tactics locked for only their guild tbh. that has a lot of troll potential also...

 

neither tactics nor guild claims are that big time decisive. maybe in 50% of all battles over objectives, that stuff has any effect. in most cases, probably does not change the outcome of the assault.

 

best tactics has SM: airships are a killer, chill is good since the castle is so big and narrow

 

dragonbanners after dmgnerfs are not really strong anymore. just easy to use lol.

 

ewp is like 50% of all cases good and useful or even saves a keep last second, the other 50% it's just wasted or pulled too late or despawns or camped or not taken by anyone or not pinged on /t by anyone or without further reports

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9 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

i returned and i enjoined some wvw and i am thinking to stop it again because my old level 3 guild can't claim a... CAMP

i searched why and i saw that someone thought ( probably from the game's dev team ) the claiming of camps is a very serious business...

SERIOUSLY NOW? THE CAMPS? THAT A GLASS CANNON THIEF CAN CLEAN ONE IN 5-10 SECONDS ALONE ?

it seems, someone understood very wrong what we asked before 8 years.

we asked to expand the guild system (as you did), not to make the guild system exclusive for big guilds! also, the hypocrisy of the new guild system is that even someone full upgrades it the thief will continue clean the camp in 5-10 seconds if there is not someone around to defend or pull the defensive systems because and correct they are not automatic!

Personal
I don't want to speak to other people in any communication server when i am playing my games.
i don't want to listen the problems or other people when i am playing my games.
i don't want to have useless schedules in my life and i really don't want to have schedules for my games something that makes me not joining or trying to upgrade my personal or old guilds.
and
i don't want to take or give orders to other people that most of them are unknown to me

p.s. the funny part of what i saw after 6 years is that the most of the old players i saw still playing the game were the... roamers . i guess what mechanism they used to remain viable in this unfriendly for roamers new wvw claim system but for obvious reasons i will not write it now and i am old enough to not thinking games like ... a castle to conquer and probable i will quit again than trying upgrading the old guild with tricks.

sub-question: what are the minimum numbers of players for guild upgrades the stupid guild npc says that the 18 players of the guild is not enough? is that a govt secret?

And why would you want to guild claim a camp with your personal guild in the 1st place??? Why is it so important??? Cause you want to solo anyway, there is no point to make people know about your own guild, i dont think you want to invite people to your guild! 
 

Also that high achievement point or not does not matter at all and it comes down to personal objective. Some want to be ap hunter, some go for fashion war, some want to kill millions opponents in spvp. For me, i dont care about achievement point. 

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4 hours ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

returning player here . You are totally correct, and I understand your frustration as I'd like to use my own solo guild to get banners and claim objectives but no, Anet decided to throw veteran players under the bus and allow only large guilds to do the business (it doesn't matter if their numbers are mostly made with pve players: quantity over quality is their motto, like in real life). Who knows, maybe in the next decade they will finally separate WvW guilds from PvE guilds, and tie the power of a guild to the actual highest ranking member in the guild itself.

One can dream, it's still free

 

i answered before  but then i remembered that i made a mistake (checked from the logs of one of he guilds that is level 3 and still can't find how many persons need a guild to became level 4 and nobody answered this question from my 1st post).

 

i returned after 5 years not 6 years but i will not change the title because as you said and you are right the people that changing things in the game, the game devs will check this post the next year or later 🤣

 

now we are dealing with jannies as usual....

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10 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

we asked to expand the guild system (as you did), not to make the guild system exclusive for big guilds!

Yep HoT and the subsequent lack of patches/fixes after launch really destroyed WvW for a lot of guilds and players.  The exodus was very noticeable.

 

Even the bigger WvW guilds didn't like it and quit.  The devs did do a post about "we hear you" and reduced some of the cost with leveling up the guild mechanics but sooo much was broken for so long.

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2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

You make it out as though it is impossible to get a personal guild to where it provides useful WvW buffs or claiming. That's simply not true.

this is your personal, arbitrary and wrong assumption.

Putting aside your mistake for a moment, something being "possible" doesn't make it efficient nor rational, so I just reiterate my point on the specific issue of WvW guild management: currently  it is trash, and a complete revamp tied to the actual members proficiency, experience on the field and participation would improve the WvW experience tenfold.

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26 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

this is your personal, arbitrary and wrong assumption.

Putting aside your mistake for a moment, something being "possible" doesn't make it efficient nor rational, so I just reiterate my point on the specific issue of WvW guild management: currently  it is trash, and a complete revamp tied to the actual members proficiency, experience on the field and participation would improve the WvW experience tenfold.

And all of that is your personal, arbitraty and wrong assumption.

 

Where is the difference between your and my assumption? Mine is backed up by a system which is implemented, working and functioning within this game mode and obviously other succeeding to make the system work.

 

Your is purely based on personal expectations, demands and failure to make the current system work the was you want it to (aka treating it as a solo player system when it is designed for multiple players, while it even IS possible to go at it solo).

 

Is the current system perfect? No. That is not the claim here. Is it as dysfunctional as you or topic creator want to make it seem? Far from it. That is the incorrect claim put forth in this topic.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_upgrade#Acquiring_guild_upgrades
 

Start with the wiki. If you have any questions post them in the thread. 
 

The reason you can't claim a camp at level 0, and need to earn the ability to claim towers and keeps, is because guilds need to upgrade their Claim Aura to be more effective (thus restricting lower tier guilds with lower level Auras to less important objectives) and also need to craft or otherwise obtain Tactics for the objectives they are claiming/managing. Basically, the system Anet designed permits guilds with lots of resources more freedom to make claims than fresh guilds. 
 

Several people have noted that individual guilds can be leveled up solo, at least to where making claims is possible. However, most veteran players have multiple guilds they can claim with. I myself have 3 different guilds that have maximum claim authority and WvW upgrades. I'm basically the only one who uses them for that purpose so it's like having 3 personal guilds. 
 

Back to leveling up a guild the main thing is needing to run guild missions and then spending the currency the guild earns from those missions to upgrade. It helps to have 3 friends to run those because multiple of those missions are group content (it's a guild after all). Working on that doesn't require voice coms or anything, just some chatting and using guides (for example the guide for the guild Trek locations). 
 

Good luck.

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Claiming isn't only thing they ruined for solo players.

- They ruined siege balance meaning if you want to build or man siege it will do absolutely nothing.

- They killed any type of small scale fight balance and dueling with claim buff

- They increased upgrade speeds massively making camps, towers and stuff harder to take and maps more boring for smaller groups

- They added anti fight measures (Gliding and Mount). You will get absolutely no kills as solo player near enemy tower/keep/castle/ruin as they'll just glide away.

- Condi and mobility builds rule the game forcing you to run either boring build or burst them before they run away to reset.

- They added Dolyak escort buff making any minstrel escorter always keep the dolyak alive (you can try take camp meanwhile but if it 2 players, you cant do anything to slow upgrading)

- They added revealing sentries and towers. And believe me, it will always be 3 times as many people coming to gank you
- Blobmeta is just stack, boon removal and bombing. There is no space for solo bolo builds anymore, fights don't last long enough for your flank to pay off

- No ones inside towers or keeps scouting ready to fight you anymore. And if you do it yourself, no1 will come around either

- They also removed lower tiers with relinkings meaning if you want smaller fights, there is no tier dedicated for that anymore

Ofc I am mostly focusing on the negatives but for example claim buff should have been only non-combat buffs and gliding shouldn't be available in combat. The siege balance is also a joke.

Edited by Fatal.1347
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The main purpose of claiming things is to make use of buffs and upgrades. Camp claiming is all about the +5 supply buff.

 

If you actually scout as a roamer, there are plenty of guilds that will let you join no-strings-attached just so you can borrow their claim buffs when you want to. The multi-guild system means you don't have to give up your own guild to do that at all. Make a few friends and craft a few upgrades and you can probably get access to their expendable upgrades, too.

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21 hours ago, Reborn.2934 said:

i returned and i enjoined some wvw and i am thinking to stop it again because my old level 3 guild can't claim a... CAMP

i searched why and i saw that someone thought ( probably from the game's dev team ) the claiming of camps is a very serious business...

SERIOUSLY NOW? THE CAMPS? THAT A GLASS CANNON THIEF CAN CLEAN ONE IN 5-10 SECONDS ALONE ?

it seems, someone understood very wrong what we asked before 8 years.

we asked to expand the guild system (as you did), not to make the guild system exclusive for big guilds! also, the hypocrisy of the new guild system is that even someone full upgrades it the thief will continue clean the camp in 5-10 seconds if there is not someone around to defend or pull the defensive systems because and correct they are not automatic!

Personal
I don't want to speak to other people in any communication server when i am playing my games.
i don't want to listen the problems or other people when i am playing my games.
i don't want to have useless schedules in my life and i really don't want to have schedules for my games something that makes me not joining or trying to upgrade my personal or old guilds.
and
i don't want to take or give orders to other people that most of them are unknown to me

p.s. the funny part of what i saw after 6 years is that the most of the old players i saw still playing the game were the... roamers . i guess what mechanism they used to remain viable in this unfriendly for roamers new wvw claim system but for obvious reasons i will not write it now and i am old enough to not thinking games like ... a castle to conquer and probable i will quit again than trying upgrading the old guild with tricks.

sub-question: what are the minimum numbers of players for guild upgrades the stupid guild npc says that the 18 players of the guild is not enough? is that a govt secret?

first of all... step back a foot.. no point getting angry and frustrated over a game. there are so many players in wvw... obviously what you are experiencing arent just personally happen to you. so it is a common culture in wvw. 

secondly... it is good to have you back to the game after 8 years!!!! 🙂 i have been lurking around the game since beta or.. since gw1 🙂

understood u dont want to do a lot of things in wvw that others are doing, that is totally fine. There are small minority of players, small scouting groups.. and even solo players hanging around wvw.. for specific reasons. So you are free to do whatever you wish.. the game does not design centre to just you. So if you want to enjoy it, you need to adjust a little around it. The wvw community generally are very open to new players, and recruits.. if you are willing to try and step up a little more, you might find a new game for yourself.. give it a go.

 

 

 

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