Willbender Feedback Thread

[Gwaihir.1745]

Too many tradeoffs for little benefit.

Too low damage to be a glass cannon.

Too many self roots and long animations allow your enemy to escape with ease.

This is my last reply here until anet chimes in. They have plenty of feedback regarding the issues. Either they can handle them, or they cant have my money. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Spent a bit more time on this and even remade the Beta character a couple times just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. 

 

It's definitely super lacklustre compared to DH or FB. The good thing about beta characters being able to swap to other E-Specs as well is I can compare and contrast how they perform and WB just doesn't come close to how DH or FB feels. Definitely needs some serious reworking of traits and skills because there just doesn't seem to be any hard sticking synergy with the other specs. 

[GuriGashi.5617]

It is good for getting fast to mid, doing no damage and dying instantly 

 

Not even adjusting numbers will fix this elite spec. Sword 4 could crit for 8k in PvP and Willbender would still be a oneshot without impact

 

Adjustments 

- Change Vanguard Tactics to give resolution on shadowports, so we get some synergy with the Radiance Line - I would have loved to see more traits that give you effects like strike damage/healing on ports

- Lethal Tempo duration needs to be far longer

- remove root from sword 3, buff sword 1, 4 & 5 power modifier

- buff greatsword 1 & 2 power modifier, add to skill 3 a symbol at the end of the leap and give greatsword an usefull skill 4

- First choice of traits should have strong effects, because unlike normal traits they handicap you - no „get XXX amount of power/concentration/healing power“, but „your damage is increased by 20% for losing toughness“ or „heal passively for XXX per tick for losing healing power“

- Virtues need impact, just compare the impact of Virtues with the impact of the new Mesmer shatters or Necro shroud - it is insane how little pressure the new virtues do - they offer even less utility than the overnerfed Firebrand Tomes

- for being a mobility spec the mobility is lacking in every form since Heralds, Daredevils, Mirages, Spellbreakers and even Harbingers can easily catch you - please increase the range and fix the aftercasts

Edited August 19, 2021 by snoow.1694

[Excell.1042]

The first thing that comes to my mind about this spec is that switching this spec on should remove all animation locking on the guardian. It's supposed to be a mobility based spec but we have these ridiculous animation locks that shouldnt be there on a mobility based spec:

Staff 4, Sword 3, Hammer 2 and 5, GS 2 (The slow part should be removed) If we're supposed to be mobile we should be able to chase, no?

[Gorem.8104]

Be interesting to see what changes they have planned for this class, the fact that the new added offhand sword, is worse then other offhands for the class, and you really want to only use like one utility from WB and never the elite. 

 

It having less synergies with other trait lines does not help without passives. 

 

I love how you get punished too, like you swing and miss because your first attack hit. Or you need to land all your hits for certain activations. Which against any good pvp player will never happen. And this spec is not that good in pve. So its currently bad for pvp and pve. 

 

Four second knockdown on your elite means nothing in a pvp perspective, if someone doesn't use stun breaks in their bar they'd die to everyone and everything. And its such short range. The guardians down skill aoe knockback is stronger. 

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Gwaihir.1745 said:

Too many tradeoffs for little benefit.

Too low damage to be a glass cannon.

Too many self roots and long animations allow your enemy to escape with ease.

This is my last reply here until anet chimes in. They have plenty of feedback regarding the issues. Either they can handle them, or they cant have my money. 

 

Fortunately numbers atm really shouldn't matter too much, as Beta characters are never going to be balanced in that regard, as currently WB is a glass cannon with no cannon, just a glass spec that tickles enemies and can catch up to them to tickle as they stand in place to tickle the air or place an aoe on the ground that tickles others for a split second as they take one step and are out of it. 

[Wounder.7526]

I don't know if the Willbender is supposed to be playable with a Burn build, but considering all the Burning you put in there, it seems you want that. But normally, for any other Burning-focused Guardian, Permeating Wrath is an absolutely core part of the kit to get a meaningful Burn output, and its useful is severely crippled for the Willbender, so you might have to look at that. Either the Burns on its other skills have to be pumped up, or Permeating Wrath has to be split and buffed for Willbender to take the 'bender up to par with the other Burnguard builds. 

[Roads.5130]

The skill icons are way off, they look like they belonged to another profession and they just added some blue tint to them so they could 'fit' Guardian.

Sword #4 is slow and unrewarding.

 

In general the specialization feels disjointed from the Guardian profession in the sense that core Guardian skills are mostly static areas of effect that don't benefit Willbender's playstyle. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Roads.5130

[Nefertitu.9214]

Will bender is my second favourite so far, love the visuals on the skills, using the skills took me a little bit to get used to but still liked playing it. ☺️

[Tasker.1973]

20 hours ago, Tasker.1973 said:

I'm a Dragonhunter fan and I've only tested Willbender open world using GS and Sw/sw.

 

I find it frustrating how many different ranges there are on mobility. I end up relying more on the old Sword 2 and GS 3 for the 600 range.

For all the extra mobility and micro movements you do incidentally make, the payoff isn't that great. The damage of sword 4 is lackluster. Sword 2 already teleports itself and Sword 3 is already a 600 projectile. I think I'd keep using focus to better compliment both melee and range.

 

Virtues felt underwhelming when fighting small number of mobs. I also feel the animation locks are jarring and undermine the mobility and fluidity.

 

Despite my complaints, I really do want to like Willbender. I just don't think it's there yet.

 

After sleeping on it and trying again today, just wanted to expand (for pve):

F1 interaction with Renewed Justice feels great. Having it reset often makes me feel like the mobility is serviceable, allowing me to reposition the claws or cover area more often with them.

 

I don't know if it's because I'm 250 ping, but often the F1 doesn't land so no claw. I have to be just outside or in melee range to guarantee it hits. With the cast times, animation lock and ping, I could probably run the short distance in the same amount of time.

 

I do like the claw for aoe more than Spear of Justice. It would feel better if it appeared instantly like sword 2 symbol. I have to make myself use it often to feel the spec's dynamic, but it's a chore.

 

The only new utility I use for pve is Whirling Light. If I'm saving virtues for when I need them, I really don't get a lot of new mobility. When I do use virtues for mobility, I have to burn 2 of them to traverse a useful distance.

 

I also wish the payoff for F1/sword 4/utility/elite was explosive. I wouldn't want them all to have mobility if it means each individual one needs to be throttled. Dragonhunter traps feel great with mobility because it's a big payoff for less risk/investment.

 

At the moment Willbender feels like you're going nowhere fast. You have to put yourself out to do something that core/DH/FB does easier/better. I hope this feedback helps.

[Drael.2015]

I really really wanted a Sw/Sw class, but just find this a of a mixed message. Is it single target with the mobility, or is it .ulti target with the traits and virtues?

 

Not much to add that isn't already covered here. The movement is too clunky and the damage is too low. Too many roots and it's so easy to miss your target.

 

There's just no payoff here, so I'm interested to see how Anet takes this feedback because the idea of a sw/sw high pressure class sounds amazing fun but I just don't feel the landing has been stuck yet.

I don't want a reconcept, the idea of WB sounds a lot of fun, it's just not sticking to a single cohesive idea well enough. Make it selfish, make it deadly, make it fluid, fast and fun. That would be so much fun! A lot of potential but I think sadly the weapon skills, virtues and traits need some more thinking on how to make it work well. Still plenty of time before release.

[Ragnar.4257]

Increase F1 distance to 600, and smoothen out the animation lock at the end of the cast.

Increase F2 distance to 900

Increase F3 distance to 900, and have it either proc the boons  at the start rather than end of the cast, or else speed up the cast time

 

Sword 4 needs bigger hitbox and slightly quicker animation, possibly a 20% damage boost.

Sword 5 - Fine, really like this. 

 

Heal needs to proc healing immediately upon blocking, not at end of the cast. Also needs to be able to block interrupts. The way it is currently this skill is more of a liability than a benefit.

 

Flash Combo needs the option to port back with Repose to last longer than 6 seconds. Make it 12 seconds and I might, maybe, consider running it. Even then, probably not.

 

Elite needs to be castable while moving, or else the animation needs to be significantly faster. Although to be honest, it probably should be reworked into something completely different. Guardian already has Bane Signet, which does the exact same thing, except better.

 

For all virtue "stances" reduce the number of strikes needed to proc the effects from 5 to 3, but add a 0.5s internal cooldown.

 

With all of that, we'd be in business.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Buran.3796]

  Ok, did use it a bit in PvE, WvW and PvP (unranked), some fast impressions:

 

*Sword #4 is bad, sword #5 is ok; overall I ended using focus > shield > torch instead of the second sword. Nothing new, anyway: at the Renegade release I entirely ditched the short bow for year and half, and to me it only become appealing after the Sevenshots change.

*Healing: a worse version of Rev's infuse light. Litany, Purification or Shelter are better, albeit I would put the new healing about the current FB mantra.

*Utilities: my favourite is the chain of roundhouse kicks (whirlwing light?); the others doesn't enough damage or tools to replace existent choices.

*Elite:: cool animation, bad execution, mediocre performance.

*Traits: as has been said, it doesn't seem to sinergy with a lot of core traitlines. Some look promising, but only if the basic damage numbers are rised.

*Virtues: honestly dissapointing. I would use the F1, but I think that are worse than the ones from DH and FB, and even core guard.

 

   So, I ended using a sword/focus & greatsword build with Radiance, Valor and 4 meditations; seems promising in PvE and is fun to play but you need celestial stats to make it work, and performs worse in dps than DH or FB but is new and is fun to play. In WvW feels frail. In PvP the absence of celestial pushes to use marauder, but a marauder WB doesn't feel as solid as a marauder DH or a core Guardian. Yes, can get some kills, but is worse at that task than a Thief, Rev or Ranger and despite the mobility choices (most of them discarded due low performance) the sustain and ability to retreat from danger seems worse than with DH and core.

 

   Numbers aside, one of the main problems is that a lot of the skills have not only telling cast times but weird pauses before hitting (as happens with Rev's staff #5 after the nerfs).

 

  IMO they tried to make something closer to BDO's Striker class, but with a lot less skills available and less fluidity to chain attacks and combos. The F3 remembers me the Falling Sword attack from the Crusader in DIII, but as happens  in that game the performance of the skill doesn't match the "coolnes" of the visual showcase.

 

[ClanConflicts.4731]

Let me preface this with that I absolutely respect writing, art, and coding teams, but Willbender as it is now appears to demonstrate a disconnect between all aspects. The Spec art portrays Willbender to be some dual bladed duelist, but gameplay-wise their Utility Skills are all hand-to-hand combat? It's like some weird half thief-monk, but the Utility Skills fall flat with their poor animations/sounds, rooting aftercasts, and just lack the overall punchy feel - even Core Guardian's ghostly Spirit Weapons have better sound design. The Off-Hand Sword Skill feel underwhelming and just... happen. It doesn't feel like you're really carving into your enemy with either precision, grace, or power. It just feels like you're sort of giving your enemies a shave - even Necro Dagger feels more brutal. Let's not even get started on the Specialization's name, which none of the gameplay aspects seem to even vaguely evoke.

 

I won't cover the Virtues and Off-Hand Sword skills, as they've already been covered well enough by other posters. And as a simple PvE player, I'm just tossing my two cents on how the class feels overall, rather than an in-depth mechanical analysis.

 

Heal Skill - Reversal of Fortune: The window of opportunity feels much too short and the animation is terrible. It looks more like the Willbender is cowering rather than preparing for a last gambit. Why do their weapons just disappear/reappear? Why can't they use their Dual Swords to parry/deflect, instead of using hand-to-hand combat. If the counter isn't executed, the Willbender just snaps back into idle stance with zero animation frames - and when it does execute, the effects only apply after the counter window ends. The visual feedback is also this weak little heal fog that hardly feels like you got anything from the exchange at all, despite the value recovered. It's janky, jarring, and feels overall inferior to Mace's Protector's Strike. Reversal of Fortune also doesn't seem to work half the time, whether it's reducing damage to 0, but still not granting the increased heal from certain attacks, to interupts up going through it (e.g attacks like Asura Golem hook). I'd rather use vanilla Shelter.

 

Utility Skills: 

* Roiling Light - A decent disengage tool However, using the normal dodge animation is a cop-out when the Ability icon clearly shows the subject backflip kicking away - the skill deals damage, make the animation reflect that. Quick Retribution follow-up feels surprisingly fun (an actual knee bash as advertised by the icon), in spite of how the Off-Hand Sword skills feel. However, Quick Retribution's range is way too short and Willbender is taken out of it by using Roiling Light. What kind of follow-up move has it's preceding move take it out of its effective range?

* Tatsumaki Senpukyaku Whirling Light: Is... okay, at best. I don't see why it's a targeted skill, though. I would prefer it to be a line area dash, like Warrior's Greatsword, or a free moving-about skill, also like Warrior's Off-Hand Axe. Forgetting to untarget an enemy and using Whirling Light only to accidentally whirl backwards was a very prevalent issue when fighting multiple scattered enemies.

* Heel Crack - Nothing to write home about. It's puzzling that it's unlocked second to last in the Specialization when it feels like such an early game Warrior Utility.

 

Elite Skill - Reversal of Fortune: A joke of an 'Elite' Skill. It's like Warrior's Stomp and PvP Finisher had a mutant, unloved, immobile child. Why can't Willbender move during its abysmally long cast animation? Why does it have a channeling cast animation which is easily accidentally cancelled by moving? The radius on the tooltip says 240, but the weak and quickly fading VFX (not even a shockwave of dust or energy to make the supposed knockback effect really pop) makes it feel much smaller than the post-nerf range of Purging Flames. Animations, cast time, visual effects, and gameplay effects are underwhelming with little to zero payoff. Why anyone would pick this over Feel my Wrath, Renewed Focus, or heck even the racial skills is beyond me. Even Harbinger's shroud got a better Leap CC.

 

Traitline: Awful. Simply awful. Weak to little synergy with Core Guardian and too much trade-off for nothing but losses. Boon Pact, Power for Power, Conceited Curate are the worst offenders. Thanks to Willbender Training changing Virtues into movement skills, a lot of the Static Virtue Trait Effects that worked for Firebrand either feel they have little interaction or are conspicuously absent for Willbender.

 

Overall, I don't know what Willbender is supposed to do. It's mobile, yes, but feels overly selfish, clunky, and the design feels all over the place. I play Guardian to feel like just that: a Guardian.

Even when I'm running Condibrand, I can at least toss a sneaky Bow of Truth here or there and poof some F2/F3 Tome dust on my allies. Now I can't do the former or use something, like say, Shouts if I play Willbender switched out from the Physical Skills, thanks to Conceited Curate and Boon Pact respectively. Why do these even exist? That trait branch alone works better with none selected, which really irks me since these are detriments we're expected to spend hard-earned Hero Points for.

I feel like the most Guardian-y I can be with Willbender is to use 1 of the 5 shadow steps/dashes/evades I have to jump in front of an ally, eat a projectile intended for them, and die because I specced into Power for Power, making me near Elementalist levels of squish. 

 

Willbender, in my opinion, is probably the weakest and most unfun of the three Beta Specs this batch - by a large margin - which is heartbreaking as a Guardian player who hasn't even sunk their teeth into base Necro and Mesmer. Sorry if this all seems nitpicky, but I truly hope these six months will see some big changes, if not a rework (and rename), for Willbender.

Edited August 19, 2021 by ClanConflicts.4731
Minor additions/removals and cleanup.

[ArcaRay.2608]

Ohw ... Assuming that my favorite classes are Guardian and Mesmer, after only 5 minutes I had to convince myself to insist on playing it to understand what I didn't like and I must say that reading the first 9 pages on the Willbender in the forum, all the problems that I saw and that I imagined spilling into every context, PvE and especially PvP and WvW, were not only the result of my perception (I did not do great tests because I just could not conceive the fact that the predetermined concept was partially followed, and compared to the other specializations unfortunately it was a total disappointment, especially the traits... I prefer to have more Meditation skills than Physical skills -which are also all unusable underwater, if it can be considered relevant for EoD contents in particular-).

 

Without repeating the many and very precise previous comments on the whole kit (to which I have however added some likes), I would pause to reiterate the concepts already expressed by some on design, that is the BASE from which to start to make sense of the final result. If only from the icon of this specialization many expected that it belonged to a thief (which could very well be made particular as it was tried to do for the Willbender), there were reasons, but I would like to analyze the whole situation starting from the announcement, for which we have:

 

1 - the fact that this icon could lead to the figure of a shinobi and the one with the oni mask to the figure of a samurai (and basically some expected a specialization for the thief and for the warrior respectively, especially if you think about the difference between the two fighting styles and therefore the two different types of armor);

 

2 - the fact of having shown a specialization with a specific name, Willbender, but unfortunately it has already been understood from the beta that it does not work as you cannot bend anyone to your will with the skills and weapons you have (including the cost for the amount of damage you do);

 

3 - the fact of having shown at the end a very particular and interesting concept for the Willbender, above all a style that sees him fight using two swords (Japanese katanas maybe? òwò), a great mobility and some skills that recall those of a "monk", or at least they remind me of Goku xD (in short, Willbender still has some nice ideas to start with and generated a common hype even if it wasn't for the thief as many thought, but leaving many doubts about how the Willbender can make use of the other peculiarities and Guardian specializations);

 

4 - the fact that the beta confirmed these doubts due to the lack of synergies traits, the lack of mobility, a second sword that does not coordinate decently with the main hand (bad for a fighter who is presented with two swords to play then replaced because maaaybe you are expecting a "fluid dance of blades" and instead it seems to have two different weapons in your hands), utilities that I personally find a bit repetitive as if they had run out of time to think about it (I would like more diversified and personalized, also based on the specialization, like all the other skills of the Guardian), and all the details listed in the previous comments.

 

What is summarized in these 4 objectives that were evidently lost in some way during development (according to what the beta has shown us at least for now), reveals two possible things:

A) how much the ideas on how the concept behind the Guardian could be related to the style chosen for the Willbender, first appeared to me as a fantastic inspiration to the Almorra Soulkeeper's skills (in the battle during the Icebrood Saga), then as a mixture of factors difficult to manage to the point of making this specialization seems to be originally designed for some other profession...

B) or the fact that, perhaps, the concept was clear, but the right compromise was not found to combine all these ideas before presenting an undercover Guardian who improvises thief skills for the beta (and I repeat, although for many a thief-murderer could have been trivial, it could also have been something more particular or different, as the Willbender, but with far fewer problems on the road)...

 

However, it is not that I enjoy making such heavy criticisms, on the contrary I am very sorry because I don't like insulting anyone... But I really care about Guild Wars 2 and I would not like to see a specialization with such great appeal on paper drop out at all, so I really hope that you don't make changes by continuing on this path, but rather that you try to clarify and keep always in mind what goals you want to achieve to carry on the Willbender concept (which among other things it would be nice if they remained the same proposed during the live, but with substantial changes for traits, skills, mobility and swords).

 

P.S.: Am I the only person who immediately tried the Willbender as it was on the first day, to see and memorize all the skills, near the pirate ships in the Gendarran Fields... and noticed that the two healing amounts of the Reversal of Fortune skill change when passing through the grass area to the sandy one of the beach?!? ò.O

 

- Sorry for this papyrus-

[SkinnyT.5382]

Just to chime my 2 cents .

The special effects from the virtues are not clear. I hoped on and  was like... wth are my virtues doing other than move me? Then I looked in the trait line and was even more confused. For instance one of the traits changes lethal tempo and I'm like  "what the heck is that?". Other will say just Courage or Resolve. Those terms are too commonly use.

I think Dev's need to look at the description of skills and traits and make sure that the verbiage is concise. Also something like lethal tempo should be explained; how do you get it, and  what does it do?

 

Also that heal skill is atrocious; overall the Willbender  felt more squishy than my daredevil in close combat

[quaniesan.8497]

The problem is they try to do so many different theme, different things at the same time.  Nothing is synergistic with anything.  They forgot to give them any condi cleanse.   The trademark physical skills don't even have a 20% reduce CD trait and I don't see any reason to use them over the core guard utility skills.  

 

Willbender is a daredevil wanabe  but lack the condi cleanse and slipperiness for the playstyle they intended because, again, they try to mix in  monk/melee fighter theme and thus  the specialization is not good at anything.

[Bast.7253]

I did some living world maps on a power Willbender and it felt like a really fun build. I stepped into pvp and it felt like it had no identity. 

The damage isn't there, even when full glass. It has mobility but you have to double cast most of the virtues which often are too short of range and stop before you actually land on someone. You have to land multi-strikes to make the most use of your virtues. 

It felt like they borrowed a lot of things from other classes and I think it works in open world pve, but that's it. 

A shadowstep and teleport back? Where have I seen that before? Oh, yeah, mirage advance... which also never got any use because it was a useless utility that's never been touched since POF release.

It felt like I was trying to be a shiro rev without the burst of shiro rev. There seems to be no condition potential with this, the power damage is weak, and it doesn't seem to have a support option. It's could potentially be a bruiser monk playstyle, but would it ever do anything other than just annoy someone to death on a cap?

I don't know. It also had seemed to have zero consideration for any weapons outside of sword and MAYBE greatsword. 

I really don't like the trend I'm seeing of trying to reinvent professions by altering core mechanics but then giving them ONE weapon choice that seem to have no synergy with other weapons. It feels like they're trying really hard to think outside the box, but then neglecting the rest of the profession. 

Harbinger is the only thing that feels like it had some consideration and that's just because the spec itself is so overloaded with conditions that giving them another kit filled with cc and condition spam any build would be viable. 

[Raven.8156]

After playing willbender a little more:

 

1. I see that main-hand sword 3 feels out of place. sword 2 works to close distance and makes sense. Sword 3 should be re-worked. doesn't make sense to be rooted on this spec.

2. Reversal for fortune is difficult to land. maybe increase from 1 to 2 seconds?

3. Quickness and Swiftness? This spec should be loaded with these boons.

 

generally I feel the spec is incomplete? A re-design of sword 3 would help flush this together IMO

 

What I like:

1. Flash Combo with Repose feels very immersive.

Maybe each utility should have a follow-up combo similar to Repose is the first attack lands. 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Eric.7813

[Exile.8160]

4 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Be interesting to see what changes they have planned for this class, the fact that the new added offhand sword, is worse then other offhands for the class, and you really want to only use like one utility from WB and never the elite. 

 

It having less synergies with other trait lines does not help without passives. 

 

I love how you get punished too, like you swing and miss because your first attack hit. Or you need to land all your hits for certain activations. Which against any good pvp player will never happen. And this spec is not that good in pve. So its currently bad for pvp and pve. 

 

Four second knockdown on your elite means nothing in a pvp perspective, if someone doesn't use stun breaks in their bar they'd die to everyone and everything. And its such short range. The guardians down skill aoe knockback is stronger. 

The knockdown signet is actually better than the elite let that sink in. This class feels like it was done at last minute unlike the necro.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Exile.8160

[quaniesan.8497]

Here's some initial ideas:

 

1) Move sword 5 to sword 4.  Make the utility skill Whirling Light the new Sword 5.  

   Sword 3:  no longer roots,  projectiles now piece

2) Flash combo: triple that damage.  Add 1 second of immo.

3)Roiling Light:  now also remove 2 condis

4) Elite: 3/4 sec activation time.

5)  Get rid the +concentration minor trait ("why do willbender need 240 concentration again?" asked FB).  Instead, Create a physical skill trait: 20% CDR ,  remove 1 condi on activation.

6) here's the big one:   retain passive effects of all 3 virtues when not activated. It is obvious as to why.

7) increase range of those virtue F 1 and 2 dashes to 600 or something.  These things stop before hitting anyone or anything.  F2 don't need ground target.

8 ) Heal skill now a stance-like skill (WB can still attack while the skill is activated), negate  all strike attacks for 1 second  ( Glint's heal reverses damage to heals for 3 second also, so why not), the existing heal works as the same.  

9) Heel Crack: now an ammo skill. Because warrior can have it, why not the WB.  Actually, you know what, Anet, just remove Heel Crack, no one would miss it. There's simply no vacant slots for this skill.

10) Maybe a heal/condi cleanse related unique trait somewhere . Like: on successful block/dodge, remove a condi and gain regen  on a ICD  or something.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by quaniesan.8497

[Barraind.7324]

Weapon:

 

Sword OH is so clunky.

 

Sword 4 is a HUGE windup for what is essentially 2/3 of a sword MH auto.  It feels like it must be cleaving two and a half targets every swing to be better than focus as it stands. 

Sword 5 has the charge/leap issue where sometimes it just doesnt stop at the thing it is trying to hit and goes running off into the distance. 

 

Its feeling like DH did where the spec weapon isnt the best choice for the spec.

 

 

Utility:

 

Reversal is underwhelming.  If its not blocking high damage abilities regularly, it cannot perform better than Litany.  If its only blocking high damage abilities, its just shelter. 

 

Heavens Palm.  This is unsynergistic with the rest of the specs needs in PvE.  Sword OH needs to cleave, Palm is an AE knockback.  This feels clearly focused for PvP.

 

Rolling Light and Heel Crack are low-damage utility that seem clearly PvP designed.   Heel Crack is not "quick".  Rolling light is slow, and has the "woosh into space" issue with its dash. 

 

Whirling Light feels like a controllable Procession of Blades. 

 

Flash Combo's hit registration feels bad.  It can whiff against target dummy golems, and Repose is awkward to use if Flash Combo wasnt started in melee range of the thing you want to move to melee range of.  It can also suffer from not moving TO the thing you want to move to,

 

 

 

F skills. 

 

Courage losing passive aegis generation feels uncomfortable with Guardians health pool.  

 

Justice likes to simultaneously undershoot and overshoot everything it targets.  

 

Resolve isnt designed to stop upon impact, which makes it the worst of the three to use in any kind of rotation.  This is somewhat problematic as it is the default method of regeneration and a potential source of resolution. 

 

 

 

Specialization Traits:

 

Hooooboy.

 

Adept traits feel bad.  Boon pact is probably wasted, Power for Power feels required, and Curate is a thing that exists.

 

Restorative Virtues doesnt lower the cooldown of Courage, though gaining courage will lower the cooldown of the other two.  Holy Reckoning is meager.

 

 

Willbenders interactions with other spec traits though, is not fun.

 

Virtues GM traits do nothing.   Every other spec has a number of traits that require the passive effect of virtues hitting to function. These do not apply to the aura/stance/whatever provided by the active of the WB virtues. 

 

 

Feel:

 

The spec icons make this spec feel like it was ideas left over from daredevil, colored blue.

 

The trait interaction makes this feel like it was the concept for a different class and colored blue.

 

This spec feels wrong from the bottom up. 

 

Its pretty bad when you test the new flashy thing that does what no other spec in the class can do and you think "I would have just preferred this be based around utility and finding new uses for mace/shield/hammer because that makes more sense"

Edited August 19, 2021 by Barraind.7324

[Unknown.3976]

Pros.

beautiful animations.

 

Cons.

redundant amount of mobility skills.

Virtues felt weak, even when compared to core guard.

Skills that root you in place, or have a lengthy aftercast.

Very selfish class for zero payoff.

 

 

 

[Shadow Phage.9084]

Initial thoughts (general PvE, though some will apply to sPvP/WvW as well):

 

TL:DR: Spec has mobility, but doesn't have anything to follow that mobility up with. Skills are clunky. Traits are largely a set of bad trade-offs with some being obvious upgrades. Animations, VFX, and SFX are ok.

 

None of the Willbender Utilities can be used underwater.

 

-Off-Hand sword skills feel bad.

Sword 4 is slow. Its almost feels like its not worth using at its current animation speed.

Sword 5 fails to best-effort shadowstep toward the target unlike pretty much every other teleport attack.

 

-Virtues aren't that usable.

Willbender Flames' damage is low. Virtues are giving up a lot of utility for what is basically extra damage and boon procs, but the damage just isn't there, and the procs can sometimes be hard to come by.

Trading their passives buffs/boons for actives and triggers is fine, but the odds of triggering them against anything mobile is near zero.

F1 is super clunky. The lag time between the dash and the punch is enormous. The range is also not great.

F2 is mostly just a condi cleanse, unless you take Phoenix Protocol.

F3 Honestly, not entirely sure why its a shadowstep.

 

-Right-side skill bar skills

Reversal of Fortune: It only stops the damage, none of the secondary effects, such as knockdowns/knockbacks/conditions. The healing is laughably low if you don't get hit.  Honestly not sure why I should take it over Litany of Wrath or Shelter.

Flash Combo //Repose:  Flip-over skills needing everything to hit are fine, but where's the payout? It is significantly weaker than Fist Flurry in exchange for what, a shadowstep and a return shadowstep? Feels like it needs something more, maybe unblockable or cripple.

Roiling Light: Honestly, needs to remove movement impairing effects like most backwards evade skills have. That's my largest complaint.

Whirling Light: Feels like it needs more damage, and/or longer range.  Animation is cool though.

Heaven's Palm: Range is short, damage is low, utility (KD and KB) honestly aren't worth the cooldown.  4sec KD in PvE is largely pointless, and overkill in PvP (if its not immediately stun-broken.) Animation is ok. Feel like the hand needs to be a bit larger though.

 

-Traits

Adept tier: I would only use 2 of these.

--Boon Pact: Useful with Phoenix Protocol. Spec is already fairly selfish, seems like the obvious choice.

--Power for Power: If not going Phoenix Protocol, seems like the obvious choice.

--Conceited Curate: Honestly don't think this is worth taking.

Master tier: Somewhat usable.

--Restorative Virtues: Largely only good if you're constantly cancelling active virtues.

--Holy Reckoning: I guess it would be good against hordes of enemies? The damage increase doesn't mean a lot since Flames don't have high base damage anyways. The healing obviously scales better with more targets. The problem is that the spec wants to move around, while Flames wants you to largely sit in one spot and have your target sit in one spot.

--Vanguard Tactics: I can see it being usable for the extra boons, and Resistance on shadowsteps is nice. Related: you need to update the guardian teleport skills of Symbol of Blades(MH sword 2) and Judge's Intervention to say they shadowstep.

Grandmaster tier: The good, the bad, and the ugly.

--Phoenix Protocol:  This feels like an obvious PvE choice. the healing on Resolve is not great, and trading it for Alacrity honestly feels like a clear upgrade. Probably will be pointless in PvP as you won't be able to trigger it very often.

--Tyrant's Momentum: Honestly, the damage buff probably isn't worth the trade-off of harder to maintain stacks. You gain a 10% increase in damage for a 33% reduction in buff time. Yes, it is theoretically offset by Justice having a 2 second longer duration, but you need to be proc'ing it for that to matter.

--Deathless Courage: Going to be honest; haven't played with it, but it looks bad. You are trading a guaranteed block (1 aegis from activation, and X number of proc aegis) for the ability to not go into down-state. You are trading negating 1 attack and all its secondary effects for not going into down state. I am struggling to see a scenario where this is a good trade-off.

 

[Sairenkao.6485]

General

* Low damage/survival. It feels like I can rush in quick, but I'm not bringing/soaking damage or soft cc'ing in a fight.

* The word "shadowstep" doesn't seem to fit the Guardian's theme. Maybe something more light related? Flash Step? I would also like to see which skills are "shadowstep" skills in the tooltip, kind of like how Virtuoso skills show "blade" skills.

 

Virtues

* Overall I feel like these virtues don't need cast times. If this was placed in order to give counterplay, I think the windup animations are good enough. The cast time makes getting the buffs on active really weird in terms of timing.

* Rushing Justice: Weird delay after dashing, but before hitting. Doesn't seem smooth enough.

* Flowing Resolve: Should keep the heal on activation to help survivability.

* Crashing Courage: Seems pretty strong with Aegis+Stability on active + passive. A bit strange on the name, as I'd expect some kind of (soft) cc upon arrive with a name like that.

 

Sword

* Executioner's Callling: Seems...weak or slow. It's multi-hitting so it feels on theme, but 3 hits over 3/4 cast time + animation time makes it seem worse than Sword 3, which only has a 1/2 cast time and hits 8 times, plus blocks projects. The animation is hilarious with other weapons, though.

* Advancing Strike: "Out of range" marker doesn't take into account the shadowstep distance. It brings more movement, but feels unnecessary with all the Virtue skill movements. Though I understand that since there's a trait augments shadowsteps, there should probably be a shadowstep skill on the spec weapon.

 

Physical

* Flash Combo: Seems...too similar to Thief's shadowstep. I get that it has a 5 hit in it to proc your Virtue passive, but it seems counter-intuitive since you want multi-hits after you active your virtue, but your virtue already moved you to your target. Perhaps if this skill was backwards, if all 5 hits land, then you can shadowstep to your target, in case they are running away.

* Whirlwind Kick: Awesome. I like it a lot! Multi-hitting is on theme and the animation is great.

* Heel Crack: Nice, but kind of boring. Maybe a name change to something along the lines of hitting pressure points to stun ppl?

* Rolling Light: Good, but I feel like Quick Retribution needs a bit more range to it.

* Heaven's Palm: Seems a bit slow/hard to use, but 4 second KD is huge.

 

Traits

* I am kind of sad there isn't a trait for reduced/augmented Physical skills and/or OH sword skills!

* Boon Pact: Very nice trade off. I like it.

* Power for Power: Nice trade-off trait. This might be a good place to add more power if you wield a sword in the offhand to encourage using OH sword.

* Conceited Curate: Seems...useless?

* Righteous Sprint: On theme.

* Restorative Virtues: Not sure how I feel about this one. I think I like it, as it lets you use the actives of your virtues more.

* Holy Reckoning: Seems...useless/boring? The extra damage doesn't seem necessary. The healing is kind of...boring? since F2 already does that (unless you trait it off).

* Vanguard Tactics: granting protection seems like an overlap with the virtue minor. I like the boost to shadowstep skills

* Lethal Tempo: I feel like this is where the extra damage is suppose to come from? Seems fine.

* Phoenix Protocol: Unsure how I feel about it. Alacrity is strong, but the regen instead of heal makes it weaker, but I suppose that's intentional.

* Tyrant's Momentum: Seems alright

* Deathless Courage: Yup, sounds crazy. No idea what to think about this one.