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Willbender Feedback Thread


Fire Attunement.9835

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As I said earlier, I do enjoy this spec. But if you're all looking to rework the whole thing, I suppose we could try my idea.

 

Avenger: mechanically speaking it's like a cross between the Berserker and Tempest

 

It gains an OH sword (like willbender), but it's virtues are renamed "Furies." When you let one charge up after a while, each fury can release a powerful aoe blast of differing effects depending on the fury you activate. The catch is, unlike previous specs, you can only channel one virtue at a time so you need to keep that in mind when you're combat. The avenger also gains rage utility skills that can speed up the charging time of your furies.

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7 hours ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:


I think ultimately a good chunk of the problems you mentioned in the "Overall" section could be solved by swapping out the utility skills and the elite skills with something more Guardian-related, and replacing the shadow step with a block/parry with a follow-up counter-attack that does massive damage. I feel like this is where a good 80% of the problems it has are coming from, aside from some adjustments to the virtues. It feels like certain things are pidgeon-holed around you using the kit a certain way that just drags it down.

Flames are cool and all, but if pushing the boundaries of what fire-themed moves can do, that should be the Elementalist's thing in fire mode. I kind of feel like pushing the fire stuff on Willbender to extremes just steps on Elementalist's toes for no reason, and considering I think all the martial arts skills should go to Ele anyway because they're undeniably more appropriate there for a laundry list of reasons, I think retaining focus on class identity and bringing some of the "Guardian" back in thematically is a better idea. I'm all down for something like the aforementioned counter/parry move I suggested having a big blue flame effect to support the idea that it's a source of massive damage, but as a counter move it feels more in line thematically with what Guardian's all about without stepping on another class's toes.

But let's lose the shadowstep as Guardian has enough of that and that starts to encroach on Thief's kit, and let's please keep this stuff on Ele where it rightfully belongs (note the fire aura/field at 1:45 in the first video, which we already have as an in-game mechanic):

 

I disagree. If you want more “guardian” you have all the already existing guardian utilities to fill those utility slot skills. Just go play core if you want to play what guardian already is. The point of an especially is to completely change how the class plays, and Willbender has done that fantastically. It just needs some tuning and alterations to make it work in its respective role. 
As far as thematically, you come across as crusading for Ele to get physicals instead of guardian, which isn’t worth discussing since 1. Willbender isn’t going ti have its utilities completely changed and 2. We don’t know what the elementalist spec is. Thematically, manipulating flames to do things they don’t fits guardian, to an even greater degree than ele imo. Guardian has always had a strong thematic tie to flames, especially flames doing non-standard things. Look at the torch skills. Hallowed Ground, Purging Flames, Smite Condition, Judges intervention all use flames in non-standard ways. So I disagree that it would necessarily fit elementalist better. 

Edited by oscuro.9720
Fixing phone auto correct :)
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3 minutes ago, cloudsareyum.8120 said:

Psa there seems to be some feedback in the pvp forum about Willbender and the new necro elite spec instead of here

Who knows or cares where it is.

 

the class is literally like a baby crawling around in pvp- I like the mechanics, but everyone in pvp hates it with a burning passion just because it’s so insanely weak.

 

there are lots of fancy suggestions but 2 simple things make this overall weak class unplayable-

 

1 no passive- half the traits don’t work without it.

 

2 the numbers are insanely low- they even have a trait to increase a skill that does like 100 dmg by 33%.

 

if they at least do that people won’t want to bang their head on a keyboard when they play it.

 

summary: it’s unplayable in pvp...

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Guardian felt very squishy. Hard to maneuver and time attacks. Didn't seem like the virtues have any passive effect? If they did, did not show it. The healing skill wasn't enough healing-of the three elite specializations, I died the most on the guardian. I feel the healing skill could be altered to grant bonus health per block for the duration-with the possibility to be back to full health. With gradual health increase for the duration when blocking but no hits. And you can't move during the healing skill?-Can't confirm it right now, but maybe tomorrow.

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I like the design of Willbenders F1-F3. Definitely a new feel for Guardian, but it feels like it's losing too much in return.

 

Here's what I would do:

Change sword 4 to a version of the old deleted skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Duelist's_Preparation

Where the first part is a block, and the second part is the large swipe it currently has.

This is the simplest way to help the spec out. Giving it a 2s block would be just enough to give it survival without making it broken.

 

 

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Guardian has lacked access to different combo fields since 2012.

Light fields represent 90% of available fields for Core Guardian with 18/20 combo fields across weapon & utility skills + traits being Light fields (the other two are Hallowed Ground and Purging Flames as fire). 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Table_of_guardian_combo_skills

 

Willbender F1, 2 & 3 active Virtues and Willbender Flame areas represent an opportunity to introduce alternate fields to off-set the balance of losing the Virtue passives and the active durations being only 5 seconds.

It also works thematically with the Willbenders more active combat style.

 

The following field ideas would come from the current Willbender Flame areas.

Rushing Justice could create a fire field in the cone area of the Willbender Flames (burning)

Flowing Resolve could create a water field along the line of the Willbender Flames (healing)

Crashing Courage could create a dark field in the circle area of the Willbender Flames (sustain) it also looks dark and corrupted inside already.

Edited by Ezrael.6859
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This is little more than echoes of what others have already said, but yeah; willbreaker needs work.  I really want it to work, but what was probably supposed to be some Shiro Tagachi-style kitten "relentless pursuit and takedown" elite spec is currently running like the clunkier, weaker cousin of the daredevil thief elite spec with burning thrown in as a sort of consolation prize.

Overall, something this movement-focused shouldn't have so many awkward pauses between movements and attacks, nor should it be pinned down and unable to move during skill animations.  The heal skill prevents the use of any other skills while it is channeling, and the elite Heaven's Palm commits the player to a channel just over a full second long with an animation that gives everyone fair warning to dodge, interrupt, or kill them before it goes off.  The willbender gives up a lot in exchange for its mobility (such as it is), and doesn't really get much else in exchange for what it had to give up.  It's a bad trade.

If it's going to be a mobility based attacker, it should be designed or adjusted keeping the idea of being able to constantly move and attack in mind.  If there is any point where it can't move or can't attack and can't change what its doing, that needs to be fixed.

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8 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I disagree. If you want more “guardian” you have all the already existing guardian utilities to fill those utility slot skills. Just go play core if you want to play what guardian already is. The point of an especially is to completely change how the class plays, and Willbender has done that fantastically. It just needs some tuning and alterations to make it work in its respective role. 
As far as thematically, you come across as crusading for Ele to get physicals instead of guardian, which isn’t worth discussing since 1. Willbender isn’t going ti have its utilities completely changed and 2. We don’t know what the elementalist spec is. Thematically, manipulating flames to do things they don’t fits guardian, to an even greater degree than ele imo. Guardian has always had a strong thematic tie to flames, especially flames doing non-standard things. Look at the torch skills. Hallowed Ground, Purging Flames, Smite Condition, Judges intervention all use flames in non-standard ways. So I disagree that it would necessarily fit elementalist better. 


Wholeheartedly incorrect. That's not what the elite specializations are for.

The professions are like broad umbrella categories, within which there are different styles and subsets of play. You can think of them as "families,".

All Guardian specs should still play like they're part of the Guardian family, and just provide different options and flavours for how a Guardian can play. Therefore, it's important that no matter the elite spec, it still maintains a sense of class identity. It's not about being different for the sake of being different, it's about providing more options for that general category of play. There's no reason that we couldn't get another set of Guardian-like skills or a different elite skill. They could have been more fitting for the class identity. I don't see anyone whining that Firebrand's utility and elite skills are redundant to existing Core Guardian utility and elite skills, nor have I ever seen anyone say when Firebrand was introduced that if they wanted something that felt relevant to Guardian gameplay, they should just use Core Guardian skills instead. What an asinine thing to say...

You completely miss the point to Guardian's flames. Guardian is the "holy knight" that uses righteous magical flame to burn away the impure. It's thematically relevant to that. Flames on the martial arts moves, on the other hand, are more fitting for Elementalist the same way as in the video I posted, Xuan uses what is essentially a fire aura (or Focus 5 on Ele, "Fire Shield"). The Judgment move with its flaming uppercut is not the blue holy flame Guardian usually uses, but is a standard orange flame and is similar to a Shoryuken from Street Fighter much like how the Tatsumaki Senpukyaku (tornado kick) was also slapped on Guardian.

Nobody in their right mind would look at footage of Ken here with his flaming fists and feet and went "yeah that'd totally work on a Guardian, it's just non-standard holy fire,". People would look at that and, in the context of all the element-wielding that goes on in martial arts classes in MMORPGs and shounen anime, and would immediately see why Elementalist would be the better pick.

So just because Guardian uses flame moves doesn't automatically mean ALL flame-themed moves are appropriate for Guardian. Moves that fit the theme of a holy knight, and burn with some sort of righteous religious flame, and flames that resemble what you see in more shounen action stuff and fighting game archetypes, are mutually-exclusive concepts and aren't in the least bit interchangeable. You need to understand where the separation between the two is. Not all flames are equal.
 

 

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3 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

I like the design of Willbenders F1-F3. Definitely a new feel for Guardian, but it feels like it's losing too much in return.

 

Here's what I would do:

Change sword 4 to a version of the old deleted skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Duelist's_Preparation

Where the first part is a block, and the second part is the large swipe it currently has.

This is the simplest way to help the spec out. Giving it a 2s block would be just enough to give it survival without making it broken.

 

 


YES, THIS SO MUCH! In fact, you can add the flame effect to the cross-slash and buff it far more, and then let the player decide if they'd want to trait for power or condi.

This is what I mean with adding changes that let Willbender still be Willbender, but maintain more of the "Guardian" identity. Guardian is naturally more defensive than Warrior, and I think having a greater focus on a "Samurai"-style identity (instead of trying to make it a mash-up of 3 different things that don't naturally gel well together gameplay-wise) and having its selfish attack power be the result of patient gameplay and parrying, rather than just "if the first attack hits and does damage anyway, then the second part triggers".

This will certainly make it feel more "Guardian-like" in terms of its gameplay.

I similarly think we can get rid of the 5 skill with the shadow step, because Sword 2 already functions as a teleport, so it feels really redundant and unrewarding (and it gets a dash as well for no apparent reason, since it's going to teleport anyway). We can replace that with another sword reflect skill, like it blocks and reflects incoming projectiles with it or whathaveyou lightsaber-style. Then it can at least still do damage, while also still feeling more in line with what a "Guardian" should feel like, instead of stepping on Thief's toes.

This would help make it feel like a Canthan take on the Guardian, instead of just tacking on a bunch of extra stuff that doesn't feel like it belongs, competes with all the other stuff and ultimately compromises the class's identity.

Edited by Ghostkat.9580
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2 hours ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

Guardian has lacked access to different combo fields since 2012.

Light fields represent 90% of available fields for Core Guardian with 18/20 combo fields across weapon & utility skills + traits being Light fields (the other two are Hallowed Ground and Purging Flames as fire). 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Table_of_guardian_combo_skills

 

Willbender F1, 2 & 3 active Virtues and Willbender Flame areas represent an opportunity to introduce alternate fields to off-set the balance of losing the Virtue passives and the active durations being only 5 seconds.

It also works thematically with the Willbenders more active combat style.

 

The following field ideas would come from the current Willbender Flame areas.

Rushing Justice could create a fire field in the cone area of the Willbender Flames (burning)

Flowing Resolve could create a water field along the line of the Willbender Flames (healing)

Crashing Courage could create a dark field in the circle area of the Willbender Flames (sustain) it also looks dark and corrupted inside already.


I agree that Guardian should have access to more field types. Putting aside for a sec that I do think that half of Willbender's kit would just be better on Elementalist anyway because it's such a staple of both the MMORPG genre, fighting games and shounen action anime in general for the martial artist to have the elementally-themed attacks, it does indeed stink that it can't access fire fields that would be thematically appropriate for the Guardian.

On that note, however, I think that it's less of an issue that it doesn't have combo fields, and more of an issue that it doesn't have a leap finisher move outside of GS that can leap through its own flames. I think the blue Guardian flames of purification/cleansing could function as maybe a new kind of combo field, like flames that burn but also heal for outgoing damage dealt. I think it'd be cool to combine the burning and healing for its unique blue flames in such a way that'd give way to a new kind of combo field interaction.

To that end, I think that leaning more into the "Samurai" identity of Willbender as previously stated, instead of it being somewhat schizophrenic and trying to share three distinct identities that compete with one another, another possible option for Sword 5 or a utility skill instead of a martial arts move that might be better fitting elsewhere or a shadow step that encroaches upon the Thief identity and that Guardian doesn't need (since Sword 2 is a teleport) could be a move with a leap finisher. Someone already stated that the Greatsword leap has better coverage anyway, so if we're going for dual sword gameplay, and maybe the second weapon set has an offhand Focus for the Focus 4 and 5 skills to be on swap, then instead of being forced to use GS for mobility, it could have a move with a leap finisher instead. This way, I can see using something like Courage, and then dodging backward and using a leap strike back through the blue flames for a combo aura, similar to what Weaver does with Dagger Fire 4 > dodge backward > Fire Sword 2 back through the fire field for a combo aura. What with Courage's field being noticeably smaller, I think it'd work well with the more "selfish DPS" identity of Willbender, and then work nicely with swapping from Courage to Justice, since while the Willbender Flames effect of Courage ends, the combo aura is still in effect and the damage over time that it ticks for can benefit from the active effect of Justice before the aura expires.

I think this would help some of the issues the virtues currently have, and allow for better interaction between them, so long as there's a damaging field like either a fire aura, or something like my proposed unique blue fire aura (Guardian-exclusive) that can serve as an intermediary source of damage over time while you swap from one virtue to another. A sort of "connective tissue" between virtues, if you will, which would help prevent the activation of one virtue over another from feeling like too much of a sacrifice and allow the aura to benefit from changing activations while giving the opportunity to regain the aura by putting down fire fields that the player can leap through.

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Still testing it, and defensives, heals, dmg is pure garbage, mobility is good.

 

Need strong buffs to defensives and healing if this gonna go live....

 

On my FB I have 700hp/s regen with food good healing with every aegis 1000hp very good dmg cause of core guardian traits, perma 10 might....I cant describe how this willbender is so bad.

 

On Willbender theres NONE, ZERO self heals over time. You need to buff significantly F2 and heal skill to be viable, give it every hit heals you, cause in wvw and pvp situation you cant be on the target 100% cause you don't have cripple or chill. For a spec that is selfish, there is nothing you can do except bend over and wait for fast finish. Too many tradeoffs for zero benefits. I would never go WB over my FB or DH. 

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2 hours ago, Mimterest.4639 said:

One thing I noticed from more testing, Whirling Light is basically unuseable in action camera mode. It will lock onto the first target and stay there. It would be a much better skill overall if you could move freely yourself for precise positioning.


There are several settings you have to adjust to fix this in the options menu. One is a setting that allows your attacks to go past the target. A second one is a setting that causes your ground target moves to snap to your chosen target, and a third which will always make your ground targets automatically go at max distance if you are looking off to the horizon instead of having to aim it at the floor, avoiding the whole error message of being out-of-range.

When you activate these three settings together, it fixes that issue, while also allowing ground target AoE moves to still snap to your target and not go past them. I use action camera almost exclusively, and can confirm this fixes the issue and makes Whirling Light work just fine. 🙂

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General

I played PVP ~ 12 hours. Really enjoyed the new Virtues and gameplay overall. All comments are only from PvP angle.

 

Overall the survivability was OK, but the there is a significant lack of damage. Running zerk amulet with radiance traitline should be able to put down a decent burst. It couldn't. Wizard amulet was a bit better, but the burst was still underpowered.

 

Virtues

Overall, I like these a lot. F1 needs an overhaul, but the other two were fantastic.

F1's strike takes way too long. It needs to apply might as well, since all new skills are physical. It also needs an additional second of active time.

F2 should include a leap finisher. Seriously, please make this a leap finisher. 

F3 is good.

 

Skills

These were my least favorite part of Willbender. There was no synergy between physical skills and any traitline. There is no damage and no survivability when running these skills. They need condition clear & fury/might.

 

The exception is Whirling Light. It felt good and was the only skill that could be mixed into a build, but the rest felt unusable. Maybe make F2 synergize with Physical skills, something like - condition removal every 2 hits with a physical skill.

 

Traits

Major Adepts are good, I like the way they work. Although Power for Power's toughness nerf needs to be less punishing. 

 

Major Masters could use a retooling. I like Holy Reckoning, but its damage/heal is too weak in PVP. Vanguard Tactics is ok, could use more duration on proc. Restorative Virtues is one of the few traits I did not like at all. 

 

Major Grandmasters are good. Deathless Courage is obviously a PVE trait, so I wasn't able to really try it. I liked the other two others.

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1 minute ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

Still testing it, and defensives, heals, dmg is pure garbage, mobility is good.

 

Need strong buffs to defensives and healing if this gonna go live....

 

On my FB I have 700hp/s regen with food good healing with every aegis 1000hp very good dmg cause of core guardian traits, perma 10 might....I cant describe how this willbender is so bad.

 

On Willbender theres NONE, ZERO self heals over time. You need to buff significantly F2 and heal skill to be viable, give it every hit heals you, cause in wvw and pvp situation you cant be on the target 100% cause you don't have cripple or chill. For a spec that is selfish, there is nothing you can do except bend over and wait for fast finish. Too many tradeoffs for zero benefits. I would never go WB over my FB or DH. 


I think the lack of self-heals over time is intentional, since it's meant to be more of a selfish damage-dealer... but it is weak.

I think that it has too much unnecessary extra mobility, and since Sword 2 is a teleport, having Sword 5 be a dash followed by a shadow step feels kind of... unnecessary and redundant, when Guardian already has all sorts of "teleport to/leap to target" abilities and now has all these other dashes. I think Sword 5 can be changed into something more useful.

I think the utility skills are part of the problem. They're cool, but they just do not fit the rest of the sword and virtue kit, and belong on a separate martial artist-focused spec. The elite spec similarly is a big problem because it's too slow to activate and not useful in the majority of situations, and just doesn't live up to the idea of an "elite skill" being an "ultimate ability" of sorts.

This is why I strongly feel that redoing the right side of the kit to fit more in line with the left side of the kit (in relation to the health circle), and swapping out the shadow step for something a lot more useful instead of yet another mobility thing (it's one too many, tbh, and we could use the extra sword skill for damage) is what Willbender truly needs. I believe that all the issues the virtues currently have would mostly be resolved with more fitting utility skills that can synergize with them better. Right now, the martial arts abilities feel like they're very separate from, and not working in tandem with, the rest of the kit.

Harbinger is having issues with its right-side skills, too. 

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5 minutes ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:


I think the lack of self-heals over time is intentional, since it's meant to be more of a selfish damage-dealer... but it is weak.

I think that it has too much unnecessary extra mobility, and since Sword 2 is a teleport, having Sword 5 be a dash followed by a shadow step feels kind of... unnecessary and redundant, when Guardian already has all sorts of "teleport to/leap to target" abilities and now has all these other dashes. I think Sword 5 can be changed into something more useful.

I think the utility skills are part of the problem. They're cool, but they just do not fit the rest of the sword and virtue kit, and belong on a separate martial artist-focused spec. The elite spec similarly is a big problem because it's too slow to activate and not useful in the majority of situations, and just doesn't live up to the idea of an "elite skill" being an "ultimate ability" of sorts.

This is why I strongly feel that redoing the right side of the kit to fit more in line with the left side of the kit (in relation to the health circle), and swapping out the shadow step for something a lot more useful instead of yet another mobility thing (it's one too many, tbh, and we could use the extra sword skill for damage) is what Willbender truly needs. I believe that all the issues the virtues currently have would mostly be resolved with more fitting utility skills that can synergize with them better. Right now, the martial arts abilities feel like they're very separate from, and not working in tandem with, the rest of the kit.

Harbinger is having issues with its right-side skills, too. 

Problem is that they tested F2 heals with 15 golems, so it will heal to full in 5 sec.....try that with 1 golem with 1 player in pvp and pve.....it just dont work. F2 is most useless virtue in willbender. 700 heal, what is that........I just cant....how much I am disappointed. 

 

While thieves have much mobility, good selfheals...and they do 8k backstabs and 7k heartseekers with 2 attacks only. Willbender is poor man's copy of thief or revenant. 

Edited by Ragnarox.9601
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2 minutes ago, Adam.2145 said:

 

Skills

These were my least favorite part of Willbender. There was no synergy between physical skills and any traitline. There is no damage and no survivability when running these skills. They need condition clear & fury/might.

 

The exception is Whirling Light. It felt good and was the only skill that could be mixed into a build, but the rest felt unusable. Maybe make F2 synergize with Physical skills, something like - condition removal every 2 hits with a physical skill.


Yup, exactly what I keep saying. It's really awesome that we get Ryu's Hurricane Kick (the Tatsumaki Senpukyaku) from Street Fighter in the game as Whirling Light, don't get me wrong...

... but the martial arts moves in general just doesn't mesh well with the rest of Firebrand's kit based on how the skills and trait lines work. They relate on paper, but not in practice. I think it would be for the best for those moves to exist on a more specifically martial arts-themed specialization, where they are designed to work in tandem with that spec's kit, but I don't think trying to make it work with WB's kit if it requires trying to brute-force it is the right approach. If it doesn't integrate smoothly, forcing it is more likely to break something and result in clunky gameplay than anything else.

I strongly feel the path of least resistance is just to come up with newer utility skills that synergize better with how the rest of WB's kit functions, and the virtues. 

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6 minutes ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

Problem is that they tested F2 heals with 15 golems, so it will heal to full in 5 sec.....try that with 1 golem with 1 player in pvp and pve.....it just dont work. F2 is most useless virtue in willbender. 700 heal, what is that........I just cant....how much I am disappointed. 

 

While thieves have much mobility, good selfheals...and they do 8k backstabs and 7k heartseekers with 2 attacks only. Willbender is poor man's copy of thief or revenant. 


I feel ya. I know exactly what you mean. The biggest problem, and the reason why I keep championing letting the martial artist be its own thing, is because right now Willbender and Harbinger both have this problem where they're trying to be like 3-5 things in one. They need to be focused around one singular idea, instead of trying to brute-force multiple things together. Sometimes you get lucky and it turns out alright, but a lot of the time you just wind up with too many things that aren't really meant to mix together in practice, even if they seem to relate on paper, and those ingredients just wind up clashing instead of meshing together well.

Let Willbender be the Samurai archetype (I'm still a fan of the name "Willbreaker" 😛 ), and let it try to do that one idea really well. I think this is why Virtuoso is probably the most solid of the three right now on a conceptual level, because it's all one solid theme, while Willbender and Harbinger are trying to be too many things, like that awkward guy who tries too hard to impress by pretending to be too good at anything but winds up just being subpar at everything. A real "jack of all trades, master of none" kind of situation, I guess, is the best way to put it. But if it just focused on being the samurai of the expansion, and its moves revolved around that identity, instead of trying to brute-force moves from Street Fighter onto it (which is where Whirling Light comes from, it's Ryu's Tatsumaki Senpukyaku), I think it would lead to the best result, IMHO. Let that be its own archetype, and let the Guardian spec be its own separate thing.

Edited by Ghostkat.9580
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6 hours ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:


YES, THIS SO MUCH! In fact, you can add the flame effect to the cross-slash and buff it far more, and then let the player decide if they'd want to trait for power or condi.

This is what I mean with adding changes that let Willbender still be Willbender, but maintain more of the "Guardian" identity. Guardian is naturally more defensive than Warrior, and I think having a greater focus on a "Samurai"-style identity (instead of trying to make it a mash-up of 3 different things that don't naturally gel well together gameplay-wise) and having its selfish attack power be the result of patient gameplay and parrying, rather than just "if the first attack hits and does damage anyway, then the second part triggers".

This will certainly make it feel more "Guardian-like" in terms of its gameplay.

I similarly think we can get rid of the 5 skill with the shadow step, because Sword 2 already functions as a teleport, so it feels really redundant and unrewarding (and it gets a dash as well for no apparent reason, since it's going to teleport anyway). We can replace that with another sword reflect skill, like it blocks and reflects incoming projectiles with it or whathaveyou lightsaber-style. Then it can at least still do damage, while also still feeling more in line with what a "Guardian" should feel like, instead of stepping on Thief's toes.

This would help make it feel like a Canthan take on the Guardian, instead of just tacking on a bunch of extra stuff that doesn't feel like it belongs, competes with all the other stuff and ultimately compromises the class's identity.

Sword 5 is the only good thing about Willbender so far practically everything else underperforms imo

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I have played about 30sh games of Willbinder over the beta and here are my thoughts on it. It is worse than Dragonhunter, it does not have the sustain that it does, nor does it have a lot more mobility than it as well. It also lacks damage that Dragonhunter as well. I believe the fixes to these problems are fairly simple if Anet sees them as problems. First change the courage virtue for Willbinder to give stab when it is pressed. Second I do not believe any of the new utility skills of Willbinder are worth it other than maybe the stun break evade I do not know how to fix these problems. For the spin kick give it probably a 5% increase in damage, but even then I do not think it will see much play. Third I think the numbers on the sword offhand need to be MUCH higher to see it be ran any in PvP, it has to actually be worth the trade off from focus. Fourth I would like to say it needs more mobility I have been chased down by almost every class out there, but yet this is supposed to be a fast class. There are many other ways to "fix" the spec but I believe these would be the easiest

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Virtues - half the core traits don't work anymore. The virtue actives are clunky. F3 can be modified with the stability trait but guess what the stab doesn't proc until after the animation is cancelled so it no longer works as a proper stun break+stab combo.

F1 is grossly slow with no damage either, F2 is ok imo and F3 needs insta cast this windup is a joke against competent opponents.

 

Sword 4 feels beyond terrible, it's impossible to land. Sword 5 is good. Both need more damage, Willbender needs to act as a real damage threat to tanks but right now it's just not really the case. 

 

Skills - heal skill is weird, idk about this one. Something feels off, but the worst thing is that u want to tank a hit when using it to get the max heal BUT you can't tank any kind of CC or condi cos it seemingly only negates strike damage, the CC application or condi will go through. shelter is a bad enough heal skill but this is like taking the worst aspects of shelter without the positive.

 

Rolling light - dodge is too slow, the re-engage is too clunky

 

Flash combo - zero damage, can be facetanked with ease, and it self roots. Please remove any and all self rooting skills they suck so bad to play that it makes me feel like the designers have never even played PVP before. Having to land all hits just to repose is absurd given the multi hit nature and the selfroot. Why is this just a far worse Revenant skill?

 

Heel crack - it's a stun. It's probably not worth taking most of the time as an entire utility slot cos the damage is whack. Again.

 

Whirly spin to win - this is sort of ok cos the ratios are not terrible and it's quite easy to land the weakness debuff which makes duelling easier. But it's still not enough damage.

 

Elite - useless. Once again the lack of any kind of sustain on the ult means that renewed focus is still the sole remaining option for guard in PvP. Idk how this has become acceptable over the years but whatever it's alway been a class that relies on stupid cheese to succeed where other classes can just facetank everything like pepegas and run 8 different invulnerability skills.

 

 

I feel like the traitlines are quite meh actually and most of them don't offer a different feel or really any solid advantages. In fact I feel there is too much "take this but this other thing suffers" like no other class has to deal with this bs 

 

So far it just feels like a much worse power rev. It's more fun than any other power guard spec but that's cos power guard is just awful in general.

 

Anet you must realise the vision of a ultr low HP heavy armor active defense based class is just futile in melee in agame with so much multihit spam and AoE / pbAoE damage

 

I really think it needs buffs in almost every weapon skill, utility AND trait.

 

 

 

Edited by TrOtskY.5927
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First off the  mobility is nice to have but some of the actions on justice and courage are a bit clunky in animation. 

Virtues; Willbender Flames

I like the idea of "stances"  or the new actives to Willbender flames, usually going from resolve straight into justice cancels my other virtue. I can see that you want players to be melodically switching virtues(stances) but as of now it lack luster to me.  If the stances wasn't cancelled but just ran its timer down while switching stances it could make the class a little bit more indominable, "activating a new virtue keeps the previous but is reduced by 2sec." I think that could be a neat idea. not sure on the numbers.  I'm all about the stance dance

 

Justice should have the same range 600 as courage and maybe keep resolve range of 450 as is. 

 

Willbender's Dual swords is a cool idea. yet, feels very under tuned:

 

 Executioner's Calling feels like it never lands missing out on some good dmg. if it were a smidge faster would be nice. maybe gain some might. you know sword symbol gives fury and off hand can give might

 

Advancing Strike feels good, but even though Willbenders mobilty keeps them from taking more dmg I.E usually running away 

This skill could use a dodge or maybe even apply protection(aegis?) while in movement. 

 

Rushing Justice looks like it should have a knockdown, daze, immobile or a slow pick one on justice would be helpful to set up dmg. for EC burst. could be short on duration. 

 

Reversal of Fortune  great skill! takes me back to pre-ascalon! Since it is an ammo heal other than just healing you it could punish your enemy for hitting you by blinding them or slow. on 2nd heal.  you can be cc'd out of this heal as well since it has a small cast time. or give life steal after you successfully mitigate dmg. 

 

Flash Combo/Repose when it hits it doesn't really do dmg. I'm not very sure what to say about this build on paper it seems really nice. but it is not very effective and the risk to jump into battle isn't worth its reward.  "shadow step to your target your next consecutive attacks cannot be blocked .if all attacks hit, gain access to repose." 

 

Rolling Light/ Quick Retribution this skill should give  super speed. the stun break and speed is nice, but you probably already have a lot of swiftness from using virtues. super speed might make it even more slippery but give it more of an edge to survive from having small health pool or lower toughness. super speed for 1.5 sec. 

 

Whirling Light  I like the animation and look of the skill. getting caught in a bad situation and trying to evade out of this skills feels very forced.  its a fun skill, the weakness application and burn gives it a nice feel while you Ryu kick them in the face. if the animation on it was a little faster could flow a lot better. 

 

Heel Crack   had some fun messing with Phoenix Protocol and this skill. Still lean more towards pve base than pvp. the kick animation is nice. 

 

Heaven's Palm Looks like a only pve skill could give it some defensive attributes I was thinking you can get either get a light aura or a light field for the heaven theme. Also,  knock back and blind other enemies. the blind could be released as you press your skill give you a slight edge on denying dmg while in animation. I could see it being better with quickness or a animation speed buff. 

 

Over all I really enjoy the feel of sword 5 mobility and virtues mobility.  3/5

Edited by Gorenn.8924
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I'm primarily a guardian player PvE Open World, Dungeons, Fractals, (Not Raids, though, yet) and it took me years before I warmed to Firebrand whereas Dragonhunter I loved instantly. Willbender is somewhere between the two. I like it but it doesn't cut the mustard in a way that feels right just now. I really want to love it, and I do like it, but it feels lackluster. But perhaps that's to do with being a newbie with it and not yet understanding where the synergy is.

Offhand sword is wonderful as a concept and I do enjoy the 5 skill but the overall damage from offhand sword feels low by comparison to focus and it has no utility besides the movement on skill 5. Focus blocks and does decent damage from range by comparison. Shield is much better utility (Heal, aoe aegis, Projectile block, knockback, aoe heal, all within 2 skills) but agreeably much less damage. Logically I'm not sure why I'd take the sword over a focus for dps or a shield for utility. But then I don't tend to use axe on FB or longbow on DH so perhaps it's just following the same suit for my playstyle. But I would love to love dual swords. Currently pleasing to the eye but not in practicality.

Heal Skill Reversal of Fortune is interesting but it's a gamble heal. Litany of Wrath is far superior as a heal for a DPS and traits suggest Willbender isn't much of a support class so I don't think I'd be taking this for healing. I do feel I observe the base guardian heal Shelter seems to be more than a second rate citizen at this point by comparison to Reversal of Fortune.

Utilities I usually set my third utility as a stunbreaker on any class. In regards to Roiling Light I still will take Stand Your Ground, despite the longer cooldown. I'm not sure a stunbreaker without stability will ever place higher than any other stun breaker unless the cooldowns are much much longer. The extra bit of damage and cc will be useful in some scenarios though. Edit: Although, Virtue trait Indomitable Courage makes F3 Superior to Stand your Ground and well I guess there's things to play with here lol.

My second utility will usually be the best DPS utility available to me. In this case it is Whirling Light. No complaints there, I like spin-to-win skills. But I do note that Sword of justice is Superior so technically if I only had room for one DPS skill it'd probably be Sword of Justice rather than a Willbender skill.

My first utility slot will be taken up by whatever I need. In previous guardian incarnations I would trust in my F2 for condition clearing but now that virtue only removes movement conditions so my first utility slot will switch between condi clear or DPS (sometimes WoR) or CC. However, considering the general DPS performance of Willbender I'm loathe to put anything but a DPS utility skill here and endeavour to learn to play better to compensate. I had started out with the Flash Combo Willbender skill here but besides the mobility I found Sword of Justice worked better for damage.

In short: Unless I really need the CC or mobility the only Willbender utility skill I'd be inclined to use is Whirling Light.

Elite Heavens Palm looks cool but 1.5seconds being vulnerable and stationary isn't great. Feel My Wrath takes up my elite slot still.

Virtues - I was about to write negative feedback about these but actually I think the Jury's still out and I'm going to go play around with it somemore... I'm keen to see what will happen regards virtue passive traits as non functioning (aspects of) traits seems like unfinished design.

I'll come back and add more if I feel to. Otherwise:

TL;DR Fun spec to play, love the movement, love the look of offhand sword, intrigued by the virtue changes. Not sure if it's functionally more practical for anything over DH/FB except for mobility. Survivability feels lower, DPS feels lower, Support options feel lower.

Bug: The Tooltip for Flowing Resolve (F2) changes when traited with Absolute Resolve (Virtues). The new tooltip replaces Flowing Resolve Buff with the Resolve Buff.

Edit:  I'm finding the more I tinker with it the more I like it. Causing passive effects to be active by rotating virtues is interesting. I seem to be doing more damage the more I become accustomed to the skills which is expected but I'm not hitting the big shiny numbers, yet. 

Edited by Nayaru.4716
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