Willbender Feedback Thread

[Loules.8601]

It will be good to see some interactions with least popular weapons - like hammer. It's pretty much ideal spec for hammer-builds/glacial heart because of mobility and lot of CC. I think that new e-spec (with OH sword) + hammer (which pretty ideal for WB) - can be very good and interesting combo... also you can't efficiently play with hammers in any other build. 
So... in addition to all things that already was mentioned - what about more (build theory-craft) interactions with hammers, alongside dual swords? Maybe more things that can activate "glacial heart" trait? So WB will have not only GS/S build, but Hammer/S at least.

[Heinel.6548]

33 minutes ago, Loules.8601 said:

It will be good to see some interactions with least popular weapons - like hammer. It's pretty much ideal spec for hammer-builds/glacial heart because of mobility and lot of CC. I think that new e-spec (with OH sword) + hammer (which pretty ideal for WB) - can be very good and interesting combo... also you can't efficiently play with hammers in any other build. 
So... in addition to all things that already was mentioned - what about more (build theory-craft) interactions with hammers, alongside dual swords? Maybe more things that can activate "glacial heart" trait? So WB will have not only GS/S build, but Hammer/S at least.

There's always going to be some anti-synergy between a selfish DPS spec like WB and hammer, which is a protection spreader. There isn't much else hammer can do that GS can't manage in a slightly different manner. You can argue hammer 5 gives more tactical advantage than GS 5, but you are losing a lot of damage and a precious source of resolution (which is probably fueling your crit chance) just for some occasional benefit.

[Loules.8601]

1 hour ago, Heinel.6548 said:

There's always going to be some anti-synergy between a selfish DPS spec like WB and hammer, which is a protection spreader. There isn't much else hammer can do that GS can't manage in a slightly different manner. You can argue hammer 5 gives more tactical advantage than GS 5, but you are losing a lot of damage and a precious source of resolution (which is probably fueling your crit chance) just for some occasional benefit.

But you have boon duration for yourself in WB?)... Also - you have hammer 4, that (as I think) can be combined pretty well with current WB.
As example, what about traits which add bonus damage after you use gap-closers or move your target (more distance = more damage)... or damage boost after you give yourself boons? Not just "+5% damage for every unique boon on you" but something like "+2.5% damage for every situation when you give yourself boons" - with deterioration of course. It'll combine not only with WB f3 (maybe some adjustments here), but with constant boon generation from Hammer 1 (3rd auto-attack in sequence). 
With this you can even use anti-CC buffs from WB abilities; Hammer will have more constant damage than GS - and this is PvP-friendly too because of hammer's long swing time. Also - new ideas for builds, which can play very "selfish" - you have boons - not for your allies, but only for yourself and your stacking damage :D 

[Heinel.6548]

1 hour ago, Loules.8601 said:

But you have boon duration for yourself in WB?)... Also - you have hammer 4, that (as I think) can be combined pretty well with current WB.
As example, what about traits which add bonus damage after you use gap-closers or move your target (more distance = more damage)... or damage boost after you give yourself boons? Not just "+5% damage for every unique boon on you" but something like "+2.5% damage for every situation when you give yourself boons" - with deterioration of course. It'll combine not only with WB f3 (maybe some adjustments here), but with constant boon generation from Hammer 1 (3rd auto-attack in sequence). 
With this you can even use anti-CC buffs from WB abilities; Hammer will have more constant damage than GS - and this is PvP-friendly too because of hammer's long swing time. Also - new ideas for builds, which can play very "selfish" - you have boons - not for your allies, but only for yourself and your stacking damage :D 

boon duration is not useful for hammer. It can already keep protection up without any. Adding damage base on distance traveled on the gap closer would be a buff, but you won't need a launch skill for it. guardian is primarily a melee class. People will get away from you on their own. 

[Loules.8601]

1 hour ago, Heinel.6548 said:

boon duration is not useful for hammer. It can already keep protection up without any. Adding damage base on distance traveled on the gap closer would be a buff, but you won't need a launch skill for it. guardian is primarily a melee class. People will get away from you on their own. 

My idea - not boon duration, but separate effect just like "Inspiring Virtue" trait in Virtue line.
With this WB can have separate damage buff (in traits) that based on getting huge number of instances of boons... but completely not boon (or Concentration) oriented. Also it can pair well with current "PvP-oriented" boons and resurrect Hammer from the Mists  as viable alternative to GS as DPS (not support) variant - yep, not so much damage abilities, but it's something that can be balanced somewhat around (even just in WB traits).

Edited August 31, 2021 by Loules.8601
mistakes

[Exile.8160]

Tbh if anet doesnt change (at the very least) the cooldown of the third Hammer AA I dont see it going anywhere with WB. Hammer will for ever be a joke sadly. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Exile.8160

[KiLLiAN.5629]

I main a guardian since the launch of GW2 and play only PvE - open world, fractals, raids (got full legendary armor), strikes.

 

I like the concept of WB - fast, flashy, assassin type spec with monk type melee attacks. But when we move on to the execution, all those shadowsteps feel a bit clunky and to be honest kind of obsolete in PvE. I played a lot of DH in the past, now mostly play condi qFB and I feel that the arsenal of skills I have at my disposal is so much richer and better, sticking to the old elite specs.

 

I know that WB is supposed to be different and I really want that to happen. I mean I like the idea of new virtues without passives that encourage more active gameplay and the whole flavor of the spec, but I just couldn't see any reason to move on to WB. Mobility isn't that big thing for me in PvE. It's not executed that well as many people here pointed out already and outside of combat, since we have mounts, it's not a big deal anymore.

 

I guess my biggest issue is with how traits and utilities feel bland for me. I like new virtues, but off-hand sword skills are boring, utilities are flashy but not that interesting (and some fist punching and kicking animations feel reused and not that great, especially on a charr). Same with traits, aside from the ability to get alacrity, they were not really interesting.

 

I played all 3 new elite specs, and I absolutely love the Virtuoso (aside from its name which is kind of strange and doesn't fit - it should be called Blade, Mindblade, Bladesinger or something else). I know its hard and kind of pointless to compare these two, but I'd love the WB to receive the same amount of love the Virtuoso has - better animations, more interesting and different gameplay mechanics, more fun and useful utilities etc. I still feel this is doable with WB cause the whole concept is a good one, it just needs better execution.

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, KiLLiAN.5629 said:

I like the concept of WB - fast, flashy, assassin type spec with monk type melee attacks.

 

I don't like that weird combo at all. It doesn't fit Guardian in my eyes, and it's neither one thing (assassin) nor another (monk). It also felt extremly clunky to play, and the damage output was laughable compared to DH or FB. The synergy with the other trait lines was very weak (or non-existent?), too.

 

I wish they would redo it from scratch and deliver something more compelling with a real identity of its own.

[Ragnarox.9601]

7 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

I don't like that weird combo at all. It doesn't fit Guardian in my eyes, and it's neither one thing (assassin) nor another (monk). It also felt extremly clunky to play, and the damage output was laughable compared to DH or FB. The synergy with the other trait lines was very weak (or non-existent?), too.

 

I wish they would redo it from scratch and deliver something more compelling with a real identity of its own.

Yea same feeling for me, if revenant gets gs this would be my main to go for next xpac, i hope its melee type and with good skills. 

[Balsa.3951]

to make will bender more unique, can he get fear ?

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

I barely played touched Willbender in this last beta. I can't really pinpoint why but it just didn't feel fun at all. The removal of passives for the virtues seems pretty arbitrary. The virtue "stance" could easily be the active and just keep the passive.

 

Using the virtue actives feels clunky, especially F2. The fact that you have to dash through an enemy to drop the line in order to get the passive heal. the line being so narrow it can hardly hit more than one enemy... I don't know, these skills just don't feel fun to play to me. Even as a PvE player mainly, I think about the PvP possibilities of this spec and it feels weak, with those incredibly narrow areas on the virtues, no one is ever gonna stand on them other than maybe F3.

 

It's a shame really because the idea of monk-like skills on guardian is something I'm sure a lot of people have been wanting, but the way they have exectued them doesn't feel like a monk. I feel like this spec is beginning to show signs that expanding elite spec locked to existing weapon constrains is going to be a problem. This was clearly a spec that could've used a new type of punching weapon or similar to fulfill that monk fantasy, but they went with a weird assassin hybrid instead and it's... odd. Harbinger has a similar problem where their key art has a very clear vision for it (dark alchemist kinda vibe, similar to other games), but the gameplay doesn't fit that vision at all, with the strange kung-fu animations on shroud, engineer pistol reskin and incredibly weak elixir animations and effects..

[otto.5684]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:38 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

I don't like that weird combo at all. It doesn't fit Guardian in my eyes, and it's neither one thing (assassin) nor another (monk). It also felt extremly clunky to play, and the damage output was laughable compared to DH or FB. The synergy with the other trait lines was very weak (or non-existent?), too.

 

I wish they would redo it from scratch and deliver something more compelling with a real identity of its own.

I somewhat agree. I am okay with the assassin theme, but why jam in monk? Monk and assassin archetypes is not a good mix. Especially, that you are already mixing with guardian. And the quest was how unique will the assassin feel. It does not. They copy pasted rev off hand sword skills and just made them worse.

[Archilon.3650]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but I noticed Willbender [6] Healing utility block animations when paired with a shield are the same without it. Maybe it's a flavour thing but it does look off to me? I understand the theme of the spec though

[Saiyan.1704]

They are already asking for WvW nerfs on Willbender yet in sPvP, it needs MASSIVE buffs.

Willbender better not become another useless elite spec, like Firebrand, in sPvP... why they haven't fixed Firebrand in sPvP is beyond my understanding.

[Sonork.2916]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:29 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

They are already asking for WvW nerfs on Willbender

That's only cause of the Shattered Aegis meme build.  I really hope the elite isn't balanced around that...

[DoctorOverlord.8620]

I've been meaning to post my experience with the Willbender during the beta test and I'm afraid I did not find it as interesting to play as the Virtuoso and Harbinger.  (These are just my opinions, of course)

 

The Willbender is supposed to be a mobile profession but it just did not feel as mobile or fun as a thief (or DD elementalist which I really enjoy).  I've read people saying that we should not be expecting it to have a hit and run style like a thief, but I simply did not find the overall mobile that impressive. Perhaps putting movement abilities in the F keys is what made the class seem less fluid and clunky. 

 

The attacks felt lackluster visually (the Whirling Light/Street Fighter helicopter kick is particularly ridiculous looking with a norn male in heavy plate armor - that kind of fighting -game move meant for someone dressed in a gi/robes) and also felt lackluster in terms of damage.  The profession seems oddly squishy when I played it, particularly compared to the other two Elites even though Willbender is the heavy armor class. 

 

Not being able to defend/support your allies anymore may have been the point to the Willbender but it really doesn't feel like a decent DPS profession (and it's certainly not very tanky) as it is right now.  There isn't enough to make up for taking away the Guardian support abilities  (Perhaps allowing the Willbender some heal/support effects to go with their skills might help?)

 

I was really hoping for an interesting new Guardian Elite profession but I can't see myself playing it from what I saw in the beta test.  By the end of the beta, my friends who had also tried the professions thought it was so underpowered, they were joking that it's obvious why there isn't a Canthan Emperor anymore if Willbenders were supposed to be their traditional bodyguards! 🙂 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by DoctorOverlord.8620

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:29 PM, Saiyan.1704 said:

They are already asking for WvW nerfs on Willbender yet in sPvP, it needs MASSIVE buffs.

Willbender better not become another useless elite spec, like Firebrand, in sPvP... why they haven't fixed Firebrand in sPvP is beyond my understanding.

 

Willbender in wvw is like a thief W/O stealth runing streight forwards to u.... Pure WB build its just few ranger autos and its dead :P or KB/KD and  then burst it...

Player are forced to use meditation but stil i think core guard is better with it and way simplier.

 

 

IMO its another class to be food for necros and range casters.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[ArtimisTau.7902]

Justice v Justice or why Willbender virtues need reduced "attacks to trigger" by default.

Scepter 1, Orb of Wrath has a 1/2 second cast time. If we ignore projectile travel time due to being in melee range, a Guardian, Dragonhunter, and Firebrand can land 120 hits over the course of one minute. This  triggers the Justice passive 24 times.

Willbender must activate Justice which applies 1 burn, and has 6 seconds for hits. With Scepter 1, 12 hits can land for 2 triggers of the "passive". Rushing Justice also has a 12 second cooldown. Over one minute, Rushing Justice can be activated 5 times. Which is really only 4 times since the fifth would be available at the one minute mark where this "test window" ends. So 4 uses of Rushing Justice with 2 triggers and the initial burn each. Resulting in 12 total burn for Willbender vs 24 for every other version of Guardian. I'm unsure if charges hold over between casts but if so, that's still only 8 more hit during Justice and 1 additional proc. This comparison doesn't take into account any traits, gear or other attacks/skills used. A auto-attack vs auto-attack comparison means Willbenders virtues are half as powerful as every other version. Good trade off.

Additional, if we take Permeating Wrath in to consideration. The numbers shift to Willbender at 20 and everything else at 40. So still half as much and PW Willbender is still worse than everything else without PW.

Edited September 7, 2021 by ArtimisTau.7902

[cat.8975]

5 hours ago, ArtimisTau.7902 said:

Justice v Justice or why Willbender virtues need reduced "attacks to trigger" by default.

Scepter 1, Orb of Wrath has a 1/2 second cast time. If we ignore projectile travel time due to being in melee range, a Guardian, Dragonhunter, and Firebrand can land 120 hits over the course of one minute. This  triggers the Justice passive 24 times.

Willbender must activate Justice which applies 1 burn, and has 6 seconds for hits. With Scepter 1, 12 hits can land for 2 triggers of the "passive". Rushing Justice also has a 12 second cooldown. Over one minute, Rushing Justice can be activated 5 times. Which is really only 4 times since the fifth would be available at the one minute mark where this "test window" ends. So 4 uses of Rushing Justice with 2 triggers and the initial burn each. Resulting in 12 total burn for Willbender vs 24 for every other version of Guardian. I'm unsure if charges hold over between casts but if so, that's still only 8 more hit during Justice and 1 additional proc. This comparison doesn't take into account any traits, gear or other attacks/skills used. A auto-attack vs auto-attack comparison means Willbenders virtues are half as powerful as every other version. Good trade off.

Additional, if we take Permeating Wrath in to consideration. The numbers shift to Willbender at 20 and everything else at 40. So still half as much and PW Willbender is still worse than everything else without PW.

While I wouldn't mind them extending Justice to 10s, it really wasn't as bad as you suggest in PvE (it's probably pretty bad in WvW/PvP but that should be no surprise). With an 8s duration and an 8.16s cd (alac+trait), it worked pretty dang well with PW.

[ardhikaizecson.3697]

If the new espec is trying to distance it from how the core class plays, maybe also rework the mainhand sword so it fits better with its offhand? the difference between mainhand and offhand sword skill icon artstyle is also noticeable. i would like for the willbender to use both of the sword in its autoattack or weapon skills.

[Benedek.2465]

It looks like a warrior spec, it has nice, but also very telegraphed and visible animations. And it lacks cc, so all of your damage is unreliable, and at this moment, mediocore as well. Other classes can do way more damage, into your 11k healthpool without a sweat. Looking from a pvp pont of view, I would say it needs faster animtions on ult, and some tweaks on the F1-3 abilites, otherwise, it will be yet another condition build, because most of your damage will just not stick or hurt anyone if you decide to go power, and also condi builds have better defensive stats anyway for a guard, since the class lacks toughness AND health.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Benedek.2465

[Monarc.9726]

I haven’t given WB much thought since the beta, after posting my initial feedback, but my general disappointment has only grown after watching/reading other players opinions of the e-spec. It was clearly not well received. Probably just wishful thinking, but it would be great to hear some feedback from the dev team before the Nov/Dec beta, just to feel any hype as a Guardian main about EOD.

After seeing the reveal of Vindicator and Bladesworn, I'm even more depressed about WB.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Monarc.9726
Updated

[Aeolus.3615]

8 hours ago, Monarc.9726 said:

I haven’t given WB much thought since the beta, after posting my initial feedback, but my general disappointment has only grown after watching/reading other players opinions of the e-spec. It was clearly not well received. Probably just wishful thinking, but it would be great to hear some feedback from the dev team before the Nov/Dec beta, just to feel any hype as a Guardian main about EOD.

 

To many  rushes towards the enemy like a kamize that fails its mission...

The initial leaps and movement towards enemy needs at least a 1sec evade,  to make it perfect it the skill that dive towards enemey could gain 0-2  evasion sec depending distance to target, 0 sec at melee distance from target.

 

W/O it players will be forced to take meditations..

[Ragnarox.9601]

end here we see with every new elite specs comes unique better stuff and poor willie stays in trash can. 

[yLoon.5289]

The recent review of the new elite of Revenant and Warrior further enforced my believe that Willbender is a last minute homework done in 3 minutes.

Edited September 15, 2021 by yLoon.5289