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Roiling Light - Needs a little condition clear added here for the Willbender.

Quick Retribution - Range should be at least 450 as it currently struggles to hit even a stationary golem target after you evade away 300 with Roiling Light; it's even worse against a moving target.

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Every virtue needing 5 attacks to trigger is just not good and runs into the same design flaw of Permeating Wrath where its nearly useless in small scale but completely OP in large encounters.  

Offhand Sword needs a functionality rework, not just numbers buff.   For being a fluid duelist, why does every single skill have a clunky aftercast and animation lock? Hell Focus feels more

the willbender feels like a no no go in pvp, even a firebrand is stronger than WB in pvp.  first of all: all the mobility skills feel very underwhelming, harbringer travels more with his 2 leaps in

I'd like to start by saying that Guardian has been my second most-played class since I started playing this game 8 years ago, and that I love Willbender, but it REALLY needs some fixes to make it worth playing. I will say that it is leagues better than it was the previous beta. My thoughts on the Spec are listed below, both good and bad.


-I'll open things up with what was possibly the best change Willbender has received; Getting rid of all the animation locks. That change really helped improve the Willbender's flow. 

 

- I also like the removal of the negatives on the first tier traits, that was definitely a step in the right direction. Willbender had way too many negatives, though to be honest it still does.

 

-Sword 4 feels a lot better and more worthwhile thanks to the damage increase, though still seems a bit slow. My suggestion would be to reduce the time between the first slash and the follow up attack.


-Heaven's Palm is in a much better spot, especially since the added Shadowstep allows it to synergize with Vanguard Tactics. However Heaven's Palm still tends to miss moving targets and currently has a pretty major bug (at least I hope it's a bug) where if you move towards the end of the cast animation, the skill cancels, enemies are unaffected, and Heaven's Palm is put on full cooldown. This also happens if you move at the start of the animation, but at least then you only get a short cooldown. This should definitely be fixed. 


-The most glaring issue to me is the Willbender's terrible sustain. I know it's supposed to be a squishy assassin spec but Willbender still doesn't do enough damage to warrant the horrendous suvivability, especially considering that Willbenders lose the Guardian's passives (a big source of Guardian survivability). The heal from Flowing Resolve is nowhere enough to help the Willbender stay alive, and Conceited Curate doesn't really help either. Reversal of Fortune is also not great. I had a much easier time running with Litany of Wrath or Shelter than I did with Reversal of Fortune. I also feel like I noticed Reversal of Fortune failing to block dazes, stuns etc. which should also be fixed.


-Willbender really needs the Guardian's passives back. Not having access to them causes problems with several core traits, and hurts the Willbender's aforementioned survivability too much to be worth it. A significant reason for the Guardian's low health pool are the passives, right? So why remove them?


-The virtue actives aren't all that great either. They are either kinda alright if you are fighting a large enough group of bunched-up enemies, or downright terrible if you are only facing one or two. That doesn't really make sense with an assassin-styled spec if you ask me, since assassins typically single out one or maybe two targets and burst them down. The actives should trigger their effects each tick over their durations, maybe even with the frequency of each tick increasing with each hit if you guys still want to keep the aggressive on-hit style going.


-Flowing Resolve should also have it's range increased. It feels a tad too short now. Crashing Courage could also stand to have it's range increased a bit.


-Willbender Flames feel pretty mediocre. They do rather poor damage and have pretty small ranges. They also do nothing to moving targets. A target can just step two feet away and not be affected. Crashing Courage is the only virtue that might hit moving targets, though it has the problem of having a bit too high of a cooldown.


-The Grandmaster traits still feel more like hindrances than upgrades.


-Most of the utilities still feel like they don't do enough damage, especially Whirling Light. Heel Crack is still... meh. It needs something else, such as also inflicting weakness, but even then I likely won't run it. Although the Shadowstep on Flash Combo is good, it's damage is pretty terrible, especially since it's single target. The skill Flash Combo copies- Daredevil's Fist Flurry- is also single target, hits much harder, and has a powerful follow up. Flash Combo definitely needs a big damage increase. The Repose part is fine. Roiling Light is fine, though the follow up could stand to have a slight range increase.

 

  • Conclusion: Willbender is in a much better spot than it was previously, but still needs a lot of work.
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So, like many have said, Willbender was in a better spot this last beta than the previous, but it still needs work. When I'm discussing Willbender things below, this will be from a pvp/wvw viewpoint.

So from my understanding, Willbender loses it's virtue passives and gains the new active virtues mechanic along with Willbender flames.

So let me say both the virtue triggers, and the Willbender flames, are fairly bad at providing both damage, sustain or survivability.

 

Willbender flames: They look flashy but are effectively worthless in pvp/wvw, along with any trait that effects them. Their damage is low, their traited effects don't matter and their AoE is terrible. Change Willbender Flames to pulse around the Willbender (like torch 4) so they may be of some use outside of training golems sitting in them. Then balance them.

 

Virtues Actives: The actives don't do enough during the short time they're up, and using another virtue deactivates the effect of the previous if it's still active. So since you can only have 1 virtue active, it should have a worthwhile effect. The triggered effects are not good enough for the effort it takes to proc them, if an enemy just evades your attacks a few times you get no bonus at all.

I, like many others will suggest having the actives trigger per hit, with an added internal cool-down. The trait Permeating Wrath could be adjusted to just increase the Willbender's Justice Active effect by a percentage, since the lowering hit effect will no longer matter.

 

Rushing Justice: It says it has something like 800 range, but the actual dash is about 550, the WB flames it puts down stretch it to almost 800, but not quite. The thing is nobody uses this skill for the WB flames, they use it to move, and currently it only moves you about 550 range, which is still too short. And there is still the uppercut at the end that stops your momentum.

I suggest increasing the dash distance to at the very least 900, or just a straight 1,200 so it can be used to effectively disengage. Also put the uppercut animation within the dash, so when you arrive you do the attack instead of the quick pause you make to do it at the end of the dash.

If not that, add an ammunition charge like Flowing Resolve, so it could be double tapped to escape if needed.

 

Flowing Resolve: Adding the 2nd charge was... such a great idea! I like this skill a lot, though i still feel it's range could be increased a bit and possibly make it just a dash, not a move that needs to be targeted in a direction.

 

Crashing Courage: This skill is pretty good, I'd suggest removing the cast time and make it instant, the delay when using this skill while moving makes it feel like you barely move at all when the teleport goes off.

 

Offhand Sword: We're getting there.

Sword 4: Still needs more damage, this is the only new damaging weapon skill WB gets. I'd suggest upping it's damage, increase the range on the first swing, and if it lands, you do a short 200 range shadow step towards your target and do the other series of swings when you appear. Landing the entire thing is incredibly hard, it's range is really bad and the attack is slow.

Sword 5: A 1 second immob may as well be zero seconds, 1 second isn't enough to follow up with anything. Replace the immob with a 2 second daze, 5 second cripple or chill, or gasp... a 2 second stun. I know guardian aren't allowed straight stuns on their weapon skills, but I'll suggest it anyways.

 

Reversal of Fortune: I want to like it but it's too easily interrupted and leaves you hanging in the animation for too long. It's very unreliable, I'd suggest to just make it block, if it blocks 1 attack then apply the full heal and end the animation. If no attacks are blocked you get the smoll heal.

Flash combo: The requirement to land all the hits for the port back is just a needless punishment for the Willbender. If you want to keep it like that, make it a ground targeted skill so it can be used to also disengage instead of only engage, only do the punch animation if there is a target nearby. Also add in a 1 second daze to the skill, or each punch applies vulnerability or it gives quickness to the Willbender. it needs a bit more.

Heel crack: Needs to be faster and should have a slight leap towards it's target. Besides the stun it should be given a little extra boost. Like a cripple/chill or perhaps an offensive boon for the Willbender like quickness. So it's possible to follow up with more.

Rolling Light: Not good enough to slot. The first part should grant resilience or remove conditions. Quick Retribution: Needs increased range and could use something more, like applying 3 seconds of cripple/chill or just quickness for the Willbender.

Whirling light: The best of the new physical skills, just needs it's AoE fixed. Could maybe add some projectile reflection or destruction? I can hope.

Heaven's Palm: Like many have said, (including myself) it's just a worse bane signet and nobody uses that. I'd honestly just like to see an entirely new elite be made, i don't see this ever being used over existing elites. If I had to change it to make it usable, give it 1200 range, and make the attack finish downed opponents. It's an elite, why can't it be good?

 

Traits: The traits are still in poor shape. Adding stats or just straight damage doesn't change the way the Willbender plays.

The first 3 choices are just stats, we pick those when we select our gear, just putting stats in places where meaningful changes in play style could go is just... lazy. (The minor effects to Willbender flames they add don't matter, since Willbender flames are irrelevant in pvp/wvw.)

The 2nd set of choices offer a bit more in terms of actual effects, these are more on the right track in terms of meaningful choices the Willbender trait line offers.

The Last set of 3 traits to pick from are all garbage, they have downsides and I still feel like selecting nothing is a viable choice.. which it should NEVER be. We get some alacrity and sacrifice healing, we get like 10% more damage in lethal tempo but it gets a reduced duration... and finally..

Deathless Courage: This is quite possibly the stupidest trait I've ever seen in GW2. it's a trait where the Willbender sacrifices their best defensive virtue to... hopefully... use crashing courage... just before they're about to die.... so they do not die for 4 seconds.  It's a trait that only matters if you would die. I'd say most wouldn't want to get to that point. It would only have use in some meme build or something. Absolute waste of a trait.  At the very least it should just proc when you take lethal damage, then it would have some use...

I'd suggest looking at the Dragon Hunter's trait line, it's the perfect example of different choices that can really change the way the class functions, or what it aims to do.  I'd like to see traits that may give Willbender abilities something like cripple or chill so they can stay on their targets.  Also quickness and super speed boon effects would help a lot with actually applying damage.   Sustain is also really bad with no virtue passive, Willbender needs some love there.

Edit:

I dueled and roamed during last beta, and will add that a Willbender setup for just physical damage (mara gear) cannot do enough damage to outpace any class that has some sustain.  Mara-bladesworn was really hard to kill as just a power damage Willbender.  Willbender is really bad at dealing consistent physical damage.   I had much more success with a cele build that leaned into burning (balth runes).  But it was sad that a power build was.. well.. kitten, when compared to the cele/burn build.  Willbender still cannot escape away from any classes with an ounce of mobility.

I know i was fairly negative, but I did have fun playing Willbender last beta, and I just want it to be a fun, viable choice in pvp and wvw (roaming).

 

Edited by Sonork.2916
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To echo and build off what I mentioned months ago in this thread:

  1. Off hand sword needs more damage and needs to change your main hand three skill similar to Thief or Weaver's dual attack (come on Arenanet, this is three skills only). This will give the opportunity (if executed well) to better align the core weapons to Willbender for better flow and synergy.
    1. Examples with OH sword equipped:
      1. Scepter 3 - dash forward, attack your foe, gain resistance and immobilize based off successful hit
      2. Mace 3 - No longer channel, instead, attack your foe in a radius (similar to warrior axe 2) and if more than two enemies were struck, gain Aegis
      3. Sword 3 - NO LONGER ROOTS YOU
  2. Willbender Flames need to pulse around your characters. @Arken.3725 suggested they act similar to Torch 4's initial pulse, which would feel a lot better
    1. It would be nice to see some sort of tradeoff change where Willbender Flames become homogenized with symbols for this spec.
  3. Lethal Tempo needs to last longer and improve the power damage of Willbender Flames
    1. Or Power for Power needs to be upped.
  4. Virtues need a reduced base cooldown.
  5. Crashing Courage did not have damage upon impact. This damage needs to be on par or exceed the damage of F1.
  6. The utilities still seem underwhelming in what they do.

 

Edited by Falseprophet.1502
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Hey there,

I came here to offer some suggeations from a guard main of coming up to almost 10 years if I include beta.

This is mainly from a pvp perspective, keep that in mind.

 

General:

Willbender Flames now are an effect around the guardian.
Justice 150 radius.
Resolve 180 radius. (F2 recast now just reset duration).
Courage 210 radius.

Traits
General theme per tier of traits.

1. Stats + bonus for willbender flames

2. Shadowstep improvement + boons for 1 virtue

3. Heavy virtue modification

Conceited curate:
No longer grants healing power but increases incoming heal.
10% base 25% while willbender flames active.
Bonus to willbender flames unchanged.

Power for power:
120 power base
180 power while willbender flames are active.
Willbender Flames apply cripple while virtue of Justice is active.

Searing pact:
120 condtion base.
180 while willbender flames are active.
Bonus to willbender flames unchanged

Righteous Sprint:
Now grants 2s of superspeed instead of swiftness.

Restorative virtues:
First hit after shadowstep now heals and removes 1 condition.
Gain alacrity and regen when activating Resolve.

Holy Reckoning:
First hit after shadowstep now applies 5 stacks of vulnerability(5s) and grants 1 stack lethal tempo.
Fury and might(3 stacks 5s base duration) on Justice cast.

 

Alternate version:

Holy Reckoning:
First hit after shadowstep strips 1 boon and grants 1 stack lethal tempo.
Justice active bow applies 3 stacks of vulnerability  for 3 seconds and cripple for 5 seconds.



Vanguard tactics:
Shadowsteps now grant resolution and resistance.
Activating courage grants protection and Stabilität

Lethal tempo:
Lethal tempo now gives 3% strike dmg and 2% condition dmg in pvp/wvw.
In pve 4% strike and 2.5% condition dmg.
Base duration recued to 5s.

Phoenix protocol:
Willbender Flames now apply 1s burning on hit.
Striking a burning target now heals you.
Resolve no longer heals on passive proc but grants alacrity and removes 1 condition.

Deathless courage:
No longer prevents getting downed. Instead now heals guard for 50% of max HP.
Trigger reduces virtue duration by 2s.
Duration increased for each target hit by inital impact (1s per target hit in pvp/pve, 0.5 in wvw).
Passive now grants stability on Trigger instead of aegis.

Tyrants Momentum:
Activating virtues removes cripple, chill and immob.
Now only grants strike dmg but now grants the combined value (5%).
Ruching Justice active becomes unblockable + ignores blind.


Skills

Reversal of fortune:
Trigger gives short invulframe like full counter.
Reduce heal on trigger by 25%.
Reduce CD by 50% if lethal dmg was blocked. (Half a charge).

Heel Crack:
Base cc duration down by 50%
Add 600 range shadowstep.

Flash combo:
Will flip to reposte if 2 out of 5 atleast successful hits)
Time window for activation = number of successful hits of flash combo × 1s + 1s base.

Heavens Palm:
Now stomps downed enemies in the area.
Ports in at end of cast.
On interrupt grant 2s quickness.


Executioners calling:
Now grants 1s quickness if the first hit lands.
Range of 1st hit unchanged.
Range of 2nd part double if First hit connects.

 

I  open to discuss any of the suggestions.

Feel free to criticize away

To avoid any confusion:

This is an alt account. My main acc is Jiyu.8310 though most older pvp players in EU prob know me under the name Kranox.

Edited by mongo.7856
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From my own experience and from watching a lot of others play, I think a lot of people are in agreement that Willbender lacks sustain and therefore a lot of specs are still using Valour with Meditations for sustain and barely taking any physical skills at all, sometimes none.

 

A simple way to address this could be to add some self-healing (1k - 1.5k per use) to physical skills in a similar way to how Meditations currently work with Valour.

This would make physical skills more viable and increase build diversity options rather than people feeling they must slot Valour yet again for self-sustain.

I’ve had Valour in every Guardian build since 2012, it would be nice to not have to.

 

Perhaps one of the Grandmaster traits could be replaced to accomplish this.

I would suggest Deathless Courage as I don’t see anyone using that in PvE, PvP or WvW.

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3 hours ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

From my own experience and from watching a lot of others play, I think a lot of people are in agreement that Willbender lacks sustain and therefore a lot of specs are still using Valour with Meditations for sustain and barely taking any physical skills at all, sometimes none.

 

A simple way to address this could be to add some self-healing (1k - 1.5k per use) to physical skills in a similar way to how Meditations currently work with Valour.

This would make physical skills more viable and increase build diversity options rather than people feeling they must slot Valour yet again for self-sustain.

I’ve had Valour in every Guardian build since 2012, it would be nice to not have to.

 

Perhaps one of the Grandmaster traits could be replaced to accomplish this.

I would suggest Deathless Courage as I don’t see anyone using that in PvE, PvP or WvW.

Or, everything could be solved by making the heal skill Reversal of Fortune actually good enough to not need several other healing meditations/utilities. If it blocked/triggered properly, and maybe a CD trim down to 15s, then you might actually have enough sustain to be able to slot some of the Physicals.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/13/2021 at 11:29 PM, Ezrael.6859 said:

Perhaps one of the Grandmaster traits could be replaced to accomplish this.

I would suggest Deathless Courage as I don’t see anyone using that in PvE, PvP or WvW.

Deathless Courage is actually really cool. It allows you to enter absolute chaos in WVW, dish out massive damage and disappear before you can get hit. I would prefer they keep this trait tbh. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The whole theme of the guardian is virtues and the class is balanced around the virtues. That's why it has the lowest hp in the game and about a third of its traits focusing on improving virtue actives and passives. I understand the devs' intention to create a new playstyle, but why undo core class mechanics? IIRC the holosmith has a new mechanic that replaces its kits but you can deactivate the photon forge. Why lose the virtue passives?

Elite specs should be an upgrade that complements/enhances the class playstyle, not one that contradicts and cripples it to the point that guardian mains do not want to play it. In this case, it feels like they take something that works well and strip it of the things that make it work well. Someone here was saying that core guardian is actually better than WB, is this true?

To those who have experimented with the latest build, is the loss of virtue passives really worth it?

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@Athan.7956I'd say they haven't been lost so much as made inconvenient and clunky to access, in the worst possible way in which completely contradicts the entire point of the spec. You can gain access to them, but only if you stall an enemy inside a static AoE field, standing still to hit them repeatedly, completely negating the point of a "mobile" spec.

 

I simply cannot understand this design. It's bizarre in the extreme.

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1 hour ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

@Athan.7956I'd say they haven't been lost so much as made inconvenient and clunky to access, in the worst possible way in which completely contradicts the entire point of the spec. You can gain access to them, but only if you stall an enemy inside a static AoE field, standing still to hit them repeatedly, completely negating the point of a "mobile" spec.

 

I simply cannot understand this design. It's bizarre in the extreme.

Thanks for the info, yeah this sounda non-sensical. I hope they realise that this spec is trying to be something it isn't at present.

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Y'all are giving the regular virtue passives too much credit. They're good, but they're not amazing by any means. Some burning, a passive ticking heal, and a stack of aegis that refreshes every ~30-40s. The Willbender "active" variants of these virtues do much more.
The F1 virtue can be made just about permanent in PvE gamemodes, and in PvP scenarios it'll likely still be solid in a burst-burn build (which is how most guardian burn builds worked in PvP anyway). The initial punch is an absolute nuke, the mobility is great, and the cooldown is pretty low (12s to the core 20s).

If we compare the core f2 and WB f2, we get:

  • Virtue of Resolve: 30s cd, 84 heal/s (0.06 heal scaling)
  • Flowing Resolve: 20s cd, 652 heal/proc (0.12 heal scaling)

To match the core f2's healing output, you only need 2.57 procs of the WB one. That is, on average, ~13 hits required in a 6s window. Sure, the core virtue can be used for another 1625 healing, but it's still not very hard for the WB one to outclass it when you consider the ammo, evade, and higher heal/s ceiling.

As for Crashing Courage, it blows Virtue of Courage out of the water. Instant cast aegis button (45s cd) w/ a passive aegis that refreshes every 40s (30s traited) versus 6 seconds of multiple applications of aegis/stability on a ground-targeted blink. If anything, maybe the cd needs to be lowered in PvP/WvW (it's 30s in PvE and 50s in the other two gamemodes), but it's a ridiculously strong defensive skill as it stands.

The complaints I've seen of people claiming WB loses a bunch of trait synergy because they "don't have virtue passives anymore" are just incorrect. Every trait that modifies a virtue passive will modify the "active" portions of the WB virtues. While the devs may have been a little too cautious with the cooldowns in PvP/WvW, Willbender virtues are still fantastic skills.

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5 hours ago, cat.8975 said:

Y'all are giving the regular virtue passives too much credit. They're good, but they're not amazing by any means. Some burning, a passive ticking heal, and a stack of aegis that refreshes every ~30-40s. The Willbender "active" variants of these virtues do much more.
The F1 virtue can be made just about permanent in PvE gamemodes, and in PvP scenarios it'll likely still be solid in a burst-burn build (which is how most guardian burn builds worked in PvP anyway). The initial punch is an absolute nuke, the mobility is great, and the cooldown is pretty low (12s to the core 20s).

If we compare the core f2 and WB f2, we get:

  • Virtue of Resolve: 30s cd, 84 heal/s (0.06 heal scaling)
  • Flowing Resolve: 20s cd, 652 heal/proc (0.12 heal scaling)

To match the core f2's healing output, you only need 2.57 procs of the WB one. That is, on average, ~13 hits required in a 6s window. Sure, the core virtue can be used for another 1625 healing, but it's still not very hard for the WB one to outclass it when you consider the ammo, evade, and higher heal/s ceiling.

As for Crashing Courage, it blows Virtue of Courage out of the water. Instant cast aegis button (45s cd) w/ a passive aegis that refreshes every 40s (30s traited) versus 6 seconds of multiple applications of aegis/stability on a ground-targeted blink. If anything, maybe the cd needs to be lowered in PvP/WvW (it's 30s in PvE and 50s in the other two gamemodes), but it's a ridiculously strong defensive skill as it stands.

The complaints I've seen of people claiming WB loses a bunch of trait synergy because they "don't have virtue passives anymore" are just incorrect. Every trait that modifies a virtue passive will modify the "active" portions of the WB virtues. While the devs may have been a little too cautious with the cooldowns in PvP/WvW, Willbender virtues are still fantastic skills.

This is extremely misguided, at least as far as WvW/PvP goes.

The instant-cast nature of the core virtues is incredibly powerful, since you can use them when CC'd, or as part of a combo with other skills. Insta-cast blind on F1, Insta-cast cleanse on F2, Insta-cast block on F3. The WB virtues with cast-times attached simply do not compare. Nevermind the fact that core virtues also benefit your team-mates, which the WB ones do not.

Let's say I'm leaping at a ranger with GS, I see him winding up a LB#4 to push me away, with core I can F3 and deny the pushback, with WB I just gotta suck it up. Let's say I get bulls-charged by a warrior and see him starting an Arcing Slice, with Core I can deny with an F1 blind, with WB I'm just stuck there. Let's say a necro drops a load of weakness on me during a Whirling Wrath cast, with Core I can cleanse the weakness with F2 and keep bursting, with WB, I just gotta make a sad-face and accept it.

I have no idea how you've concluded that having Justice active only 33% of the time is NOT a massive downgrade from having it active 100% of the time. And the idea that you're going to get 13 hits in a 6s window against a competent player in PvP is just laughable.

But this is all besides the point.

The actual point, is that the true "tradeoff" with all guardian Elite Specs is that you give up a useful 3rd core traitline in exchange for some better virtues. DH and FB traits are garbage, you would always be better off taking zeal/radiance/valor/honor/virtues instead if you could, but that's compensated for by the virtues being signficantly stronger than core. WB traits are super-garbage, the virutes are not a sufficient benefit to make up for it.

Again, all of this with respect to PvP. 

Edited by Ragnar.4257
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/14/2022 at 7:57 AM, cat.8975 said:

Y'all are giving the regular virtue passives too much credit. They're good, but they're not amazing by any means. Some burning, a passive ticking heal, and a stack of aegis that refreshes every ~30-40s. The Willbender "active" variants of these virtues do much more.
The F1 virtue can be made just about permanent in PvE gamemodes, and in PvP scenarios it'll likely still be solid in a burst-burn build (which is how most guardian burn builds worked in PvP anyway). The initial punch is an absolute nuke, the mobility is great, and the cooldown is pretty low (12s to the core 20s).

If we compare the core f2 and WB f2, we get:

  • Virtue of Resolve: 30s cd, 84 heal/s (0.06 heal scaling)
  • Flowing Resolve: 20s cd, 652 heal/proc (0.12 heal scaling)

To match the core f2's healing output, you only need 2.57 procs of the WB one. That is, on average, ~13 hits required in a 6s window. Sure, the core virtue can be used for another 1625 healing, but it's still not very hard for the WB one to outclass it when you consider the ammo, evade, and higher heal/s ceiling.

As for Crashing Courage, it blows Virtue of Courage out of the water. Instant cast aegis button (45s cd) w/ a passive aegis that refreshes every 40s (30s traited) versus 6 seconds of multiple applications of aegis/stability on a ground-targeted blink. If anything, maybe the cd needs to be lowered in PvP/WvW (it's 30s in PvE and 50s in the other two gamemodes), but it's a ridiculously strong defensive skill as it stands.

The complaints I've seen of people claiming WB loses a bunch of trait synergy because they "don't have virtue passives anymore" are just incorrect. Every trait that modifies a virtue passive will modify the "active" portions of the WB virtues. While the devs may have been a little too cautious with the cooldowns in PvP/WvW, Willbender virtues are still fantastic skills.

I know it has been a while, but as you mentioned, the passive part is not the only portion of the virtues. Out of the 4 iteration of virtues (core + 3 elites) only WB loses passive. Theoretically, the mobility should fill in that gap. Well… it does not. WB has very limited disengage, and thus it loses passive for… nothing. Also, I would argue that both DH and FB have stronger virtues than WB. Heck, FB can retain the passive even after activating the virtues (with GM).

 

And for WB resolve, I would drop it instantly for wings of resolve. Especially in PvP, it is extremely unreliable for both evading and healing. WoR would fulfill either function much better (disengage instead of evade), while… still maintaining the passive.

 

However, I do not think that WB needs the passives from virtues. What it needs is far better ability to disengage.

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Most of the mobility issues in PvP/WvW would be alleviated if they removed the split cooldowns. The PvE cds were solid, but the ones in PvP definitely sucked. I still think people over-value the passive effects of the core virtues (read: PASSIVE, not active!), so I don't really understand the complaints about them being gone. If anything, the focus should just be on making the active effects strong enough to rival/beat the core/dh/fb actives.

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@cat.8975 Yes, reducing the CDs will help significantly in PvP. In PvE, I have issue with resolve. Its evasion window is very limited and the heal is mediocre. It needs better application. Will see what we get at release.

Edited by otto.5684
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  • 1 month later...

WB feels pretty good in PvE so far. I think now that the chill bug has been fixed, it could probably use a small (5%?) strike damage mod on one of the minors and some more coefficient buffs to offhand sword. Condi feels pretty good in group content, but not so stellar when running solo (not having alac/quickness really hurts it as your Justice uptime will drop and it's harder to maintain the damage mod).

Not sure if the Whirling Light nerf was necessary either, but we'll see where the numbers land in the coming weeks.

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