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Willbender Feedback Thread


Fire Attunement.9835

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A bit of a detail maybe but, I've found a very interesting interaction between Tenacious Defense / Communal Defense (in Valor branch) and F3 on Willbender.

 

You can open a fight, drop everything you got to maximize the procs on F3 granting you Aegis very quickly, and watch that F3 cooldown being recharged very quickly because of the amount of Aegis blocks and no internal CD to Tenacious Defense. Paired with some Alacrity given by Phoenix Protocol, it seems it could be very powerful... I've tested it and it pretty much guarantees F3 is up every 12 seconds or so.

 

What do you guys think ?

Edited by Neva Eilhart.5347
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Posting for Nike:

In PvE (specifically group content), the gameplay feels extremely similar to Dragonhunter. Same weapons, 99% the same rotation, same damage, roughly same utility. However, changing DH would probably feel better than changing WB. If DH longbow were the meta weapon in lieu of sword/focus, the two builds would feel a lot different and you'd lose a lot of that identical feeling.

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Does Anet actually test these elite specs out before allowing the playerbase to try them? Serious question. Because I have a hard time believing that anyone at Anet could have looked at the current state of WB and thought to themselves “yeah, this seems fine”. If someone there actually thinks this is fine, then I seriously question their IQ levels.

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F1 needs to have it's aftercast removed

F3 need to be instant cast
Willbender in general needs to have some lessons in accuracy and being able to land hits. Just because you're holding 2 swords, doesn't mean you're finessed in using those 2 swords.
Willbender needs to gitgud and actually be worth taking over any other guard spec.

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I wont get into every trait and abilities of Willbender because top players already have and I agree with their ideas for the most part.

 

In general:

Pros: I like the idea of teleporting and sticking to a player similar to rev/thief - multiple top 100 Guards like Naru and Arken find shadowstep skills like Flash Combo conceptually fun. Ideally, Guards has always had issues "glueing" themselves to a target for constant, consistent damage so the concept of shadowstep is overall loveable.

 

Cons: Everything - seriously. I understand it's beta but I didn't expect Willbender to be so underwhelmingly awful. It doesn't feel more mobile than DH with trapper runes. It doesn't do more damage than Core or DH on Zerks. It doesn't support/bunker better than Core or DH on Avatars.

I honestly don't mind the lack of condi clears Willbender has. Heck, I even don't mind the lack of Stability, Stunbreaks or stealth from trapper runes.... but the trade off just isn't there. Willbender overall needs a substantial boost to damage to feel worthwhile.

Willbender performed so underwhelmingly that I had to walk away from my computer because I was just so disappointed lol... perhaps overly dramatic here but dang... feelsbadman.

Edited by Saiyan.1704
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36 minutes ago, Neva Eilhart.5347 said:

A bit of a detail maybe but, I've found a very interesting interaction between Tenacious Defense / Communal Defense (in Valor branch) and F3 on Willbender.

 

You can open a fight, drop everything you got to maximize the procs on F3 granting you Aegis very quickly, and watch that F3 cooldown being recharged very quickly because of the amount of Aegis blocks and no internal CD to Tenacious Defense. Paired with some Alacrity given by Phoenix Protocol, it seems it could be very powerful... I've tested it and it pretty much guarantees F3 is up every 12 seconds or so.

 

What do you guys think ?

 

Except you have to be hit multiple times while also attempting to land hits yourself, while IN your Willbender flames.... too much effort for the stars to align in order to make a simple trait combo work. Likewise, aegis heal on block works too IF you do the same combo but the sad part about it all is that it doesn't bunk or support better than Core guard with avatar runes. In other words, it's a one-trick poney that is only meant for bunker builds, but doesn't self sustain as well as core or dh.

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Not impressed with this, seems clunky. To me DH seems more "mobile" than this, with needing to use f1+f2 just to equal what f2 can do for DH interms of distance travelled. 

 

The loss of Passives on virtues just seems to mess with alot of the other traits and there is no bump in stats to make up for this loss and lower morale pools on guards.

 

Some of this could be fixed with changes to WB traits. some ideas:

 

Increase the range on virtues 650 / 800 / 1000

f1 - add an interrupt to the attack, stun/daze

 

willbender training - +5% morale 

 

All the adapt traits seem worthless and dont see the point in picking any, there is more to "mobility" than dashing forward or teleports. These 3 could use those others: +50% vigor regen / physical skills provide quickness + reduced cd / physical skills will daze/stun

 

Righteous Sprint - change this to superspeed and add gain swiftness on dodge 

 

Masters or Grand Masters should effect your Willbender Flames more in someway, increase the duration of Justice, increase the duration of the flames or add after effects, such as the f2 trail for the duration of willbenders flame moving will drop flames behind you. Maybe a new grand master: Willbenders Embers apply lesser versions of each virtue to your physical skills. 

 

With this spec being about mobility you could buff dodging alot, add a third dodge, refill vigor on kills, leave the f2 flame trail when you dodge, or drop the f1 flames on dodge end.

 

Skills:

Add a reflect to the heal,

Heel Crack could probably do with an extra charge

Adding Willbenders Flames to the followup attacks on Flash Combo -> Repose (drops the f1 flame), Rolling Light -> Quick Retribution (drops f2 flame line behind you).

 

Finally the name, who or what am i bending to my will with these skills/traits, Willbreaker sounds better.

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Took awhile to get used to the new flow of combat.  First mob I tried was an awakened enforcer in Istan and it killed me.  I have improved though, and now do pretty well.  Even took it into wvw where the chase potential was crazy.  I get you need to pack as many hits as possible in while your virtues are active.  

Heel crack could maybe have 2 ammo charges like warrior kick.  Heaven's palm doesn't feel great with the long pve recharge.  The doubling of virtue recharges in competitive modes is probably necessary but just about locks Renewed Focus into the elite slot.

I will probably never taken reversal of fortune.  I swear I proc'd it in time for a 'lethal' blow but I still went down.  Litany of wrath offers more reward for less headaches.

Traits don't have a lot of interesting choices, like I don't feel the change in gameplay.  I've settled on top line for the alacrity.

I otherwise like the mobile, multi-strike gameplay.

 

Edited by Matt H.6142
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I agree with most in this thread, this is underwhelming and clunky. I take breaks from the game and have come back on previous expansions but WB will not bring me back.


The only thing i want to point out is that the main hand weapons (Sword especially) absolutely needs to be adjusted to match what i assume is the vision for the e-spec, a swift assasin like game play. Skill 3 needs to have the root completey removed and why not by the first mandatory trait in the WB trait line. I would also change the symbol in the scepter to a 600 teleport and keep the symbol at the target location of the teleport. Ofc also with the first mandatory trait in WB.

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33 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

 

Except you have to be hit multiple times while also attempting to land hits yourself, while IN your Willbender flames.... too much effort for the stars to align in order to make a simple trait combo work. Likewise, aegis heal on block works too IF you do the same combo but the sad part about it all is that it doesn't bunk or support better than Core guard with avatar runes. In other words, it's a one-trick poney that is only meant for bunker builds, but doesn't self sustain as well as core or dh.

Meh... you're probably right... *sighs* I guess I'm trying a bit too hard to come up with builds to try and fix what we got as Willbender for now, but it's like when I'm looking at the Physical Skills, despair a bit and end up slotting meditations or shouts.

Even signets are somewhat more useful.

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Mainhand sword is still a problem. It hits like a wet noodle and this can be said about almost every guardian weapon because of the ungodly reliance on damage modifiers and the virtue multi-hit design flaw.

It is also really clunky and is basically just a glorified teleport with some extra borderline useless stuff thrown in.

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57 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Willbender performed so underwhelmingly that I had to walk away from my computer because I was just so disappointed lol... perhaps overly dramatic here but dang... feelsbadman.

 

That's where I'm currently at, I'm just going to play FF14 for the rest of the week over trying to make myself feel bad by testing WB anymore.

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I don't love the random shields spinning around the character after using Crashing Courage. Seems so out of place compared to the Willbender's other animations and effects.

 

The Heaven's palm animation is a little wonky since the hand comes out and then wrist bends and then slams. I think it should just slam instead of any before animations. I don't care if that hand's wrist bends to slam lol.

 

Is each utility skill suppose to be the blue flames plus whatever color they tie in with the virtues?

 

The name Willbender seems so out of place? Whose will are we bending? We are fighting in hand to hand combat with lights and flames. if anything we are a Flamebender but I know we don't wana trademark Avatar so I think a name more fitting for a combatant. Willbender sounds like a mesmer who controls minds.

Edited by HotDelirium.7984
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This is for PvE only:

 

I think the skills are despite their mobility not impactful enough. The healing and the elite skills are really lack luster. The healing is to weak for PvE and the elite is to slow.

 

The traits are a bit iffy.

Adept: all of them want to give and take something which is totally fine.

Power for power is fine. Its a bit bland but overall fine. For a powerline this is Ok.

Boon pact hits the same theme as power for power but wants to hone into the F2 Virtue which does collide with Conceited curate.

 

My proposal for the minor traits: Power for Power: Reduce Toughess, Gain Power and condition damage.

 

Curated Pact: Combine boon pact and Conceited curate. Gain increased concentration and healing power. Your outgoing healing and boon duration is reduced. 

 

New Trait: While under the effect of Willbender Flames, Take reduced Damage. Your virtues have reduced range. 

 

Otherwise the traits seem ok.

 

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New willbender flames mechanics is weak. 0 condi cleans, too squish for play physically. Maybe if it has the old retaliation boon it could be better... nowadays i cant see WB in high tier on PvP . It NEED to do more damage, the sustain is horrible! any revenant , or thief can kill it. Roamers classes fight around DPS , roamers with more damage are better.. thief has more mobility , and revenant more damage. I hope please you review the aspects of it. Buff that class or nerf other roamers. ( im talking just about SPvP, thats what i do)

Edited by Askolov.3980
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I thought bender would be the one to make me want to roll a guard, but if this moves forward in its current state then I feel sorry for the dev team for wasting time and resources on this spec. ANet can easily stop being lazy and design new MH sword skills for this spec that way there is better synergy between the OH. The punch combo looks stupid. If you're going to incorporate martial arts into this spec then stick with kicks. F1 should be a rising slash attack which would look cooler and fit the guard better. The punch combo should be a rapid piercing combo that way the swords don't just disappear from our hands then reappear later. Rename it to 1000 blades or flashing blades. ROF like other stated needs a larger window of block opportunity like 2.5 seconds. Animations aside, as everyone else said these traits are very terrible and I thought so during the livestream. Good thing they're allowing us to preview these so early so we can give feedback and allow them to tweak them well before launch. 

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For pvp it felt like a budget spellbreaker.

Things I liked.

-the heal, stun break and stun utility are all good. 

-the f1-3 felt fun.

 

Things I didnt like

-the spin and damage physical dont do enough to be worth slotting.

-the elite is easy to dodge. Id take a 40s duration for an instant stun.

-sword offhand is just another teleport. Its not worth slotting if you wanna do damage.

 

Maybe im playing it wrong, but the only thing good is the mobility. I would like to not have to take virtues for once.

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F1 - Increase range to 600

F2 - Increase range to 600 and add 1s of superspeed

F3 - Increase range to 900

 

OH Sword: 

Skill 4 - Rework to something similar to Smoke Assault that causes vulnerability, that way it can benefit from the Virtues more. The current skill feels clunky and the damage is not impressive. 

Skill 5 - Increase range to 900 and add fury if it lands. 

Edited by DragonSlayer.1087
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I tried it out for a few hours in WvW and open world PvE. Then I played some spvp as core against a bunch of willbenders. 

Gotta say I was really disappointed. I didn’t feel that much more mobile, but I did feel like a glass noodle. There was very little sustain, the damage was slow and hard to land.


Too many abilities rely on conditionals like: “if you hit your target” or “if you take damage”.


Movement was ok, but not nearly what I thought it would be. The range felt too short on most abilities and the cool downs are too long in competitive modes.
I felt locked down by animations and everything is telegraphed for so long that enemies hardly needed to dodge, they can just walk away. 

 

the lack of virtue passives make many of the traits in other specs either weak or useless and made me feel like I had to be using my movement abilities even when the target was in range just to keep doing mediocre damage. 
 

I didn’t love any of the skills and without a talent modifier on them I don’t think I’d take any of them over meditations/shouts or even consecrations, I need the sustain from those skills. 

the name is a little strange and doesn’t seem to fit the theme but I can live with that. The icons don’t match the guardian theme very well either, but again, that won’t stop me from playing the class if it’s a fun class. 


It’s almost the exact opposite of core meditation power guardian. Core meditation guard is great because meditations are instant, impactful, reliable. Virtues are smooth and functional. Damage is strong and you feel fairly tanky even with 11k hp. The whole build is smooth as butter and everything interacts with everything really well.

Changes I’d make:

It needs way more sustain via self healing or evasion,

 

The movement needs to be more fluid. 
 

It needs more soft control with slows and dazes.

 

It needs less conditional abilities that require attacks to land or be evaded for it to fully function. 
 

The virtues shouldn’t have a time limit attached to them. For example If you use justice, then you should be in justice stance until you use Courage. Sort of like warrior stances from WoW. 
 

Modifying numbers wouldn’t be enough for me to enjoy this profession. 
 

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While this isn't directly tied to just Willbender, in the future PLEASE just unlock all legendaries in the armory for beta characters. Exotic is just extremely annoying to deal with. Thanks!

 

Oh, and give us a bunch of infusions please, so we can test fractal content with the beta specs.

Edited by LoudBoyAce.9760
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Now I know why that dude spent half of the stream drinking water showing Willbender, I was in the same situation when I was copying homework the night before from my friend and when I needed to give that same homework to my teacher. 

 

This spec feels like it was made 1 day before the stream, with lack of synergies with core guard, with bad afteruse animations, clunky in every aspect, very undeveloped traits, bad elite skill, no defensives, bad heals....

 

 

For this company this elite spec is plain B-.  Cmon guys you had time for brainstorming,  this spec feels like someone did it in 10 mins and did a bad job. You simply can and need to do better job. 

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Reversal of fortune need to work like it worked in GW1 , instant cast and automatically  wait for the damage for X seconds, WB should keep fithing instead of covering in defense.

 

Flash combo.... not that atractive 😐

Edited by Aeolus.3615
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56 minutes ago, Tulkas.2576 said:

The virtues shouldn’t have a time limit attached to them. For example If you use justice, then you should be in justice stance until you use Courage. Sort of like warrior stances from WoW. 

 

I like this idea a lot. They would need to tweak the on-hit buffs, but it seems like this would be much better. And it's a way to get virtue passives back, kind of. You would be locked to one at a time, but it seems plausible to balance them in a way that makes each one a viable choice for different situations.

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