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Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]


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For anyone who missed it. The virtuoso beta is today until the 21rst.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/youre-invited-to-the-first-elite-specialization-beta-event/

 

Here is a link to snow crow's discord (chiefly raids) https://discord.gg/pBPZVy5RcR

And to discretize's (chiefly fractals) 

https://discord.gg/a2VUn5Es6Q

 

Most of the PvE mathing will be done there. 

 

There aren't as prominent discords for the other modes so I'm interested in seeing some of your thoughts here.

 

And if you are currently linked with or against blacktide, come to WvW. I want to test virtuoso's disengage vs willbender. 

Edited by Daniel Handler.4816
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Finally able to collect my thoughts, here’s my impression so far on my testing.   To start, I’m going to say that this was a missed opportunity to give the Virtuoso Dual Daggers. If this hap

THE COMPLAINTS This is my impression about virtuoso, from a PvP point of view. Got the spec, tried it 5 minutes, logged off because I was not having fun. The overall rating is 5/10, and that's ju

This is like a core Mesmer except worse. It has no mobility, swiftness, nothing. It has no teleports, no reflects, its only defensive abilities are channels, its attacks are slow, do little damage and

Finally able to collect my thoughts, here’s my impression so far on my testing.

 

To start, I’m going to say that this was a missed opportunity to give the Virtuoso Dual Daggers. If this happened, the off-hand could provide us with a new phantasmal attack and the 5th skill possibly being a hard cc or something that removes X amount of boons on a target or a skill that allows you to shadow step to the target area, dealing damage, removing X boons and perhaps stocking a Blade.

 

I love decoupling the profession from all the limitations of clones and not worrying about dealing with situations where they would die before reaching their target, which always equalled a loss in damage. However, I hope the Chronomancer and Mirage Shatters could be revised and provide something new without eliminating clones/illusions but perhaps using them to empower shatters into special attacks, both offensive and defensive.

 

Overall, I’m pleased with the stocking Blades mechanic and not losing built-up resources (Blades) makes the Virtuoso all the more reason for my playstyle to pick up over all the clone-based builds.

 

BLADESONGS

  • F1 - F3 would be great if they were instant or had a cast time of half a second. The wind-up makes it easy to interrupt. I've also noticed that if your target ends up being out of range or hides themselves behind a wall, then you end up losing all your stacks of blades, they end up missing and then you have to get them back again. I'm hoping this gets fixed in it that if a target ends up moving out of range or is obstructed, that the skill won't go off so it saves us from having to miss.

 

  • F2 Bladesong Sorrow: There are not enough condition traits and skills in the Virtuoso kit to make sense of the confusion condition on this Bladesong. Additionally, with the Confusion nerfs, it's not that viable when paired with the Virtuoso. My suggestion would be to give it a new effect that deals damage based on the number of conditions or boons on the enemy. Another suggestion which I wouldn't prefer myself but for the sake of others who would possibly run a pwr/condi hybrid build, the Bleeding condition can be added to Bladesong Sorrow replacing Confusion.

 

WEAPON SKILLS

  • Dagger Skill#2: Bladecall - Feels incomplete. I was hoping this skill would inflict either cripple or daze as the daggers returned to you just for some added flavour. So I hope this gets looked at again. 

 

UTILITIES

  • Rain of Swords: I love the aoe and damage, and it was great to use in WvW for clouding groups. Great backline skill. However, I believe the radius is a tad small and easy to walk out of, and I would've liked it more if the radius was increased from 240 > 360 and the damage could be increased.

 

  • Blade Renewal: I love this skill but I hate to be that person and say that since we're so conditioned into having Distortion on F4, I would've rather have Bladeturn Requiem switched with Blade Renewal and I'd be fine with the cooldown being high. This would then allow us to bring Bladeturn Requiem as an optional defensive utility skill against melee attackers OR can be replaced with a possible mobility skill.

 

  • Sword of Decimation: I like the immobilization duration, and it helps to keep enemies within an area for ally attacks and your own aoes. However, I believe Rain of Swords & Sword of Decimation should’ve been merged together as visually they look the same, and then the immobilize can be a pulsing effect. Additionally, It didn't feel as impactful as I thought because, in a WvW scenario, there's high boon distribution, cleanses, and the immobilize won't always be guaranteed, which then feels like a wasted utility slot. Combining the two skills would help free up space to add a mobility skill or an even more vital cc skill.

 

  • Psychic Force – I love the knockback + break stun combo to this skill, and it gives me sufficient distance between myself and my enemy. However, with a lot of gap closers other professions have and are getting, I would’ve much preferred if this skill had a knockback range of 450 (minimum) to 600 (maximum). So something along the lines of “The closer an enemy is, the farther the knockback is.” Additionally, not that it matters too much to me, but I think it would’ve been neat if the Knockback was a Launch, but that’s just my opinion. The cooldown is really long too so hopefully a couple of seconds can be shed off of it.

 

ELITE

  • Thousand Cuts – The damage is really low. The Range and width is very small and when casting the skill while moving, the skill doesn’t fire off and goes immediately on cooldown. I definitely think this skill could use an increase not only to damage, but to its width and range.

 

TRAITS

To start off, core traits that affect clones/illusions should additionally affect Blades too. These traits that I’m referring to are as followed:

Domination

  • Empowered Illusions
  • Vicious Expression

Dueling

  • Sharper Images

Chaos

  • Illusionary Defense

Inspiration

  • Illusionary Inspiration

Illusions

  • Compounding Power

 

Minor Traits

  • Deadly Blades: I like this trait, but we already have enough traits that inflict vulnerability through the Domination tree.

 

  • Quiet Intensity: I like the self-sufficiency of the trait, but I would've rathered the conversion from Vitality into Ferocity to Power/Critical Chance into Ferocity instead.

 

Major Traits

  • Mental Focus: I like this trait but could do without the range threshold. Why not have the increased damage against foes above/below a certain health threshold?

 

  • Jagged Mind: Too similar to the Sharper Images trait in the Dueling tree, and I feel it needs to be changed into something else due to overlap.

 

  • Bladeturn Refrain: Love this trait, but because it feels too good, I get this sense that an internal cooldown of 1 ½ seconds might balance it out and maybe for wvw/pvp it could be 5/10 seconds?

 

Major Traits

  • Phantasmal Blades: I have mixed feelings with the trait and can’t really comment because it’s good, but I feel it could just be merged with Psychic Riposte. It’s just another trait that deals damage, which I’m all for, but it feels out of place.

 

  • Sharpening Sorrow: I'm not sure why this is tied to only Bladesong Sorrow. The Virtuoso is a heavy pwr/crit and fero focused elite spec with minor damaging conditions via bleeding. I would like if this was changed to “Gain fury when you activate a Bladesong” and instead of Fury increasing Expertise, have it increase our Power OR have it increase our Expertise by a little more than just 10%. As mentioned, I don’t see reason in mixing expertise with a fury/pwr focused elite spec if our only “damaging” condition is bleeding and then the stack of confusion from Bladesong Sorrow.

 

  • Duelist’s Reversal: I love the added Quickness, but I think what would give this trait extra push is either 3s of Swiftness or a 1s Super Speed. Twin Blade Restoration is our only access to a movement-type boon, but not all of us are willing to take that healing skill or invest in Runes of the Traveler/Fireworks, so another method of gaining swiftness would help.

 

Grandmaster Traits

  • Psychic Riposte: As I wrote for Phantasmal Blades, the two could be combined or take out the blade generation on block/dodge since we already have enough sources that can generate blades. (Infinite Forge, Mirror Images, GS Mirror Blade and Phantasmal Berserker as an example)

 

  • Infinite Forge: It feels like a staple trait and a better pick than the other two for me personally. There's nothing wrong with this trait as it works perfectly with my Dom/Illu Bladesong Harmony combo.

 

  • Bloodsong: The extra increase in bleed damage is nice and reminds me of the Rangers Hidden Barbs. However, the Rangers Hidden Barbs would be better as it increases Bleeding by 33%, and it’s a Major Trait as opposed to what we got, which is only a 25% increase, and this is a Grandmaster trait. Overall, I didn’t find it strong and just like Mirage’s Dune Cloak, I believe it won’t be used as much because it doesn’t compete with the other two traits.

 

Overall, I'm somewhat satisfied with the Virtuoso, but with 6 months until EoD release, I 100% believe the Virtuoso, Chronomancer and Mirage need some revising.

 

Lots of traits that give us Fury, which is excellent. I wish we had traits that empowered our psionic skills or perhaps reduced the recharge time for them. I also think that with other professions having oppressive and strong gap closers, shadow steps, teleports etc., it won't be easy to keep some distance from them (Willbender, Daredevil mainly).

 

There are only so many skills such as Psychic Force, Blink, Phase Retreat, Decoy, Signet of Midnight and Blade Renewal can do for us and in a WvW/PvP scenario, Blink will always be on our bar and once used, we have no other way to escape/disengage. So giving the Virtuoso a mobility skill that lets us evade or shadow step a moderate distance, sort of like Jaunt, would be great. Or I would recommend giving Blink 2 charges.

Edited by Tseison.4659
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Virtuoso is extremely burst heavy, which is nice since mesmers lacked burst on chrono. They have a lot of front burst with a lot of vulnerability stacks. They also have a ton of hp (25.000 HP). It doesn't have much defense. You have enough range for instance to burst for a while, and you can pack quite a punch.

 

Not much in terms of condition i see a trait that is bleed on crits.

It looks as if you probably can be a condi spec butg would require a awful lot of other traits to make it work.

 

I predict you are going to need ferocity condition and expertise.

 

 

Edited by Axl.8924
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10 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Nice work Anet.

Yeah teleport is probably better for other specs.

Correction it makes a blade if you hit a target.

Decoy is similar. It seems like blade renewal is the only way to prestack ooc.

Edited by Daniel Handler.4816
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I do not know if this happens with other players, but my beta character boxes did not include a dagger :P,

 

sword 3 is very nice btw.

 

Utilities and elite rather meh. I might be wrong but if those skills are pure dmg skills with no other use, the damage does not look very great so far (pve).

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Let us know what you think about the virtuoso! What do you really like? What needs to be improved or adjusted?

Had a blast playing the virtuoso, it feels very powerful and fun.  I love the aesthetics.  Still trying to figure out what the F1-F4 keys do but that'll take more play.

 

The only thing I did NOT care for: the elite skill targeting.  It feels clunky to have to move the arrow around in a direction.  I would much rather have it shoot out depending on the direction of the character itself.  (To be fair, I also hate this sort of manipulate-the-arrow-of-attack type of skill on other classes too, it's just not very user friendly.)

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I feel like blade renewal is overshadowing all other blade generation utils even tho it has a overly long cd.

 

Some suggestions:

Consider allowing us to use mirror images and decoy ooc for blades like blade renewal.

 

Reduce the blades blade  renewal generates to 3 and also shave some time off the invuln duration, as a tradeoff decrease the cd of the skill accordingly. The goal of this would be to open up the use of mirror blades and decoy as good generation options alongside or instead blade renewal. The reduced cd would also make the skill more accesible which in return just feels better.

Edited by zealex.9410
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Just now, zealex.9410 said:

I feel like blade renewal is overshadowing all other blade generation utils even tho it has a overly log cd.

 

Some suggestions:

Consider allowing us to use mirror images and decoy oorc for blades like blade renewal.

 

Lower the blades blade renewal generates to 3 and also shave some time off the invuln duration and as a tradeoff decrease the cd of the skill accordingly. The goal of this would be to open up the use of mirror blades and decoy as good generation options alongside or instead blade renewal. The reduced cd would also make the skill more accesible which in return just feels better.

 

Or you know, allow them to be used out of combat for blade generation. They changed sword three. why can't they change mirror/decoy.

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Just now, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

Or you know, allow them to be used out of combat for blade generation. They changed sword three. why can't they change mirror/decoy.

Thats what i said, i also suggested lowering abit of blade renewal's power and lowering its cd to compensate.

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Consider a little aftercast after blade leap so you can't acidentally double press it and ruin swap on the process.

Additionally it bugs out on uneven terrain and you leap on place, same thing happens with Sw ambush.


Rework the interactions between stealth and psychic repost and stealth and f4.

Damage is beyond awful overall. Rework the numbers.


1/2 the new F1.

Also on the F1 speed up the time between hits. Mesmers have been spacing up clones in such way that they hit at the same time or close to. So it's annoying to have a skill that gave us no control over it.


Also up a bit the speed on dagger 3.

 

Consider adding a mobility or sustain skill on dagger.

Elite is bad, low damage, too narrow and too slow to deal damage.

F1 to F3 needs to not be considered a projectile.

 

F3 needs to be instant or 1/4 to rupt, at the moment it's useless.

 

Gain aegis (trait) on f4 has no point.

 

Lower the CD on Blade renewal.

 

Apart from Blade renewal and sword of decimation the new skills on the right side of the bar are all useless.

 

Mirror Blade is useless on virt, since there are no clones there are no bounces, it will hit once and it's done, come up with an elegant solution like you did with sw3.

 

On a similar note - Scepter and staff autos are reliant on clones to do good pressure, since clones are gone both need the numbers upped if you equip virt elite spec.

 

Bottom row traits need a rework.

 

It is kind of cheap to pre stack blades before fights and perhaps it is the motive for the low damage.

Either remove it or put on some blade decay out of combat.

It is kind of fun and f2 animation is gorgeous.
But it's so bad in terms of damage and mobility.

 

On the concept - it makes no sense. Blades + psionics + music.

Dish out psionics and music. Find a type of skill that already exist to fit the utilities on.

Edited by Lincolnbeard.1735
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I've been doing condi dagger pistol scepter torch.


Not sure if its necessarily better than mirage, but you can ez stack 25 stacks of bleed quite a lot of stacks of confusion and a bunch of stacks at least of torment.

 

With pistol 3 and 4 you get quite a lot of condis and with multi hits quite a lot of bleeds.

 

I'm able to with gun get 30 stacks of burning and confusion really ez, not sure how much this helps considering those stacks kinda dissipate so fast.

Edited by Axl.8924
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Re: Virtuoso Graphics
The utility skill "Rain of Swords" (an aoe in the air that creates a "rain cloud" of swords) seems to slow my fps down significantly. For reference, I run this game on absolute lowest settings possible and have an average of 40-50 fps, this can go down a bit when intense stuff happens, but the rain of swords takes me down to 15~ fps.

Psychic Force and Sword of Decimation make me go down about 10 frames when using them, bad but not the worst. Frankly, i'm not sure i'd be able to play the game with multiple virtuoso's skill effects on my screen.

The other skills across all the specs don't cause issues for me.

Edited by Lexi.1398
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3 hours ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Let us know what you think about the virtuoso! What do you really like? What needs to be improved or adjusted?

 

imagine going 10 years of NPCs being destroyed to projectiles that get reflected

 

scrap the whole thing if projectiles are too strong to not be reflected to balance around, just fix it already 

imagine saying "wvw is a core pillar" and coming out with this 

Edited by Alpha.1308
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