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Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]


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1 hour ago, Phoenix.6023 said:

I feel like a few things could be mechanically adjusted and fixed for the Virtuoso.

FIRST AND FOREMOST WHY ON EARTH DOES REGULAR SWORD NOT GENERATE BLADES? BUT GREATSWORD DOES? FIX THAT!!! 馃槨

  1. As aforementioned above. Sword Mainhand, and Sword Offhand don't generate blades. However they are blade orientated weapons. This strictly restricts your blade generation and your over-all build style to one very specific weapon set. It's not even worth running Regular Sword Off Hand. Because Sword Off Hand Skills, DO NOT GENERATE BLADES. There is ZERO BUILD DIVERSITY! This is the most linear out of the three elite specs because of this reason. Dagger/Sword/ Greatsword would be significantly more viable than Dagger Pistol. And maybe having an offhand weapon that generates Blades, will be significantly better. Also Due to the lack of defensive utility with Virtuoso. The Virtuoso needs should run Sword Offhand for Riposte and Counter "Blade" < IT'S IN THE NAME! OBSERVE.... Phantasmal Swordsman should also grant Blades. Increase Riposte and Counter Blade's range to 1200 to match Phantasmal Swordsman and the Dagger Skills.

First off sword does generate blades your 3rd skill does generate a blade and mobility which is a nice addon, and if you go offhand sword it generates another blade because of phantasm. The only reason why GS聽seems like it generates more blades is because GS comes with a 5 skill kit which is s2 and s4 and when traited you can summon 2 berserkers that turn into 2 blades I believe at least that is how its suppose to work.

Next you have to consider sword and other weapon sets were made in the beginning of the game therefore there is no foreseeing the future that a class like this would ever come in play until now, so its not possible for them to make the weapon in hindsight.

However I would like to add that if they should ever increase the way Virtuoso generate blades they will def need to buff the so far lack luster GMs and traits we have now.

Edited by Salt Mode.3780
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Finally able to collect my thoughts, here鈥檚 my impression so far on my testing. 聽 To start, I鈥檓 going to say that this was a missed opportunity to give the Virtuoso Dual Daggers. If this hap

My feedback F1 is worse than core, less damage, easily strafeable, the fact that it hits 5 projectiles in a row makes you miss several of them.聽 F2 is one of the few good skills on Virt, I w

This is like a core Mesmer except worse. It has no mobility, swiftness, nothing. It has no teleports, no reflects, its only defensive abilities are channels, its attacks are slow, do little damage and

Virtuoso Mechanic Skills

路聽聽聽聽聽聽 No changes

Virtuoso Weapon Skills.

路聽聽聽聽聽聽 No changes

Virtuoso Skills

路聽聽聽聽聽聽 Thousand Cuts聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 Please remove rotating Ground Targeting so players stop casting to the Right of their target. It鈥檚 currently not intuitive.

Traits (Suggestion)

路聽聽聽聽聽聽 Jagged Mind 聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 Blade attacks have a chance to inflict Confusion on critical hits.

路聽聽聽聽聽聽 Bloodsong 聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽聽 Confusion you apply deals increased damage. Stock a blade after applying enough stacks of Confusion to foes.

NOTE: There is not enough use of Confusion and bleeding seems so over used, why not use Confusion instead? and I believe the trait will be used more and encourage the traits unique use.

Edited by Tungsten Monarch.6058
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Some feedback after playing a lot of Condition Virtuoso and Power Virtuoso in Open World:

The spec feels like you can generate a LOT of blades really fast. It would be great if the spec would focus more on using the shatter skills. For the bleeding focused Virtuoso the cooldowns (Especially F2) are far too high.

The blades skillfact should eother be more focused on or just replace interaction with clones.

Traits like Sharper Images that get their most value out of clones should be adjusted to blades instead of introducing essentially duplicates like聽Jagged Mind.聽

My main concern is F2 still beeing confusion focused. I like that virtuoso focuses on bleeding and I would really enjoy having more Bleeding on this trsit as well as the traits that affect Cry of Frustration to be adjusted accordingly to boost bleeding.

Dagger 2 very often throws the daggers into the sky. I think I'd rather have the skill float like Mirage's Staff Ambush.

Blade Renewal feels underwhelming. Only reason to use this in PvE is prestacking blades.

The animation on F4聽is extremely misleading. The block duration should always be the same duration as the blades around the character. It always looks like you're protected but you are not. I don't care if this reduces the damage duration but it's a major feelsbad if you believe you're still blocking because the skill's animation still lingers.

Virtuoso currently has 3 ways to apply bleeding (+ one underwater) which is extremely low for a spec that focuses on this condition. Sharper Images, Jagged Mind and Duelists Discipline.聽Two of these ways are reliant on crits and the third one is competing with Phantasmal Fury (Which is needed for Sharper Image's full potential) Aside from that there should be a lot more options to apply bleeding since virtuoso is focused on that very much on bleeding.

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Why does it seem like anytime I use stealth I'm just instantly revealed?

Is it awkward timing of the blade shatters? Is it the projectiles from daggers coming back to me? Is it me gaining a blade from my phantasms finishing my chain?

From what I can tell it seems like running anything with stealth with Virtuoso either takes some extremely methodical gameplay or is a general waste of a utility.聽

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Actually a few proposals I'd like to mention here as well to make sure it's seen.

Sword 3 on Virtuoso should immobilize when returning to your previous position. Would make it a good setup for bladesongs.

Many probably said it before but Bladeturn Refrain should grant aegis at start of the cast.

Psychic Riposte needs a BIG damage buff. The blade does negligible damage. Same with Phantasmal Blades.

Duelist's Reversal. I honestly quite like the idea of fury & quickness on a dodge but I feel like it's not serving it's intended purpose.聽Keep the fury but please remove the quickness in change for making the next bladesong instant. (bladesongs should already be instant anyway imo but ok.)

I think the condi traits should honestly be reworked to be more about survivability, mobility and or cc to help kiting.聽Mirage is stronger condi wise anyway and having 2 specs on the same class competing for which one is the stronger condi build is a balance nightmare and will always end up in 1 being picked over the other.

Psychic Force: add a few sec cripple to it to help kiting.

Twin Blade Restoration: Make players able to consistently use it when facing away from the enemy.

Unstable Bladestorm: should be a static ground target ability. It's really hard to hit enemies with all damage ticks.

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15 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

Why does it seem like anytime I use stealth I'm just instantly revealed?

Is it awkward timing of the blade shatters? Is it the projectiles from daggers coming back to me? Is it me gaining a blade from my phantasms finishing my chain?

From what I can tell it seems like running anything with stealth with Virtuoso either takes some extremely methodical gameplay or is a general waste of a utility.聽

If you have Psychic Riposte, you're dodges/ blocks proc a blade. Also watch out Phantasmal Blades as your phantasms will also spawn a blade after their attack. Theres like a second delay before the blade fires. Stealth on the Virtuoso is extremely hard to pull off with the slow speed of projectiles.

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8 minutes ago, MrAmputatoes.6031 said:

If you have Psychic Riposte, you're dodges/ blocks proc a blade. Also watch out Phantasmal Blades as your phantasms will also spawn a blade after their attack. Theres like a second delay before the blade fires. Stealth on the Virtuoso is extremely hard to pull off with the slow speed of projectiles.


Gotchya. They got tired of the "mesmer one shot me from stealth" threads and really thought of everything this time around, huh?

At least necro gained some spammable disengage skills though!聽

I'd complain less with this being beta, but a lot of the mirage beta was people talking about the shortcomings of the spec their solution was to remove a dodge.

Guess my hopes of them salvaging this spec this late in production are pretty low.聽

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The Virtuoso sword 3 bugs like crazy (meaning it fails to connect with the target and generate a blade) on uneven terrain and for some reason has a slow travel time.

Why? It's virtually a worse thief sword 2, losing us the root for the CC bar damage in PvE and leaving us with a weak cripple.

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Well, there are so many comments reflecting my thoughts on traits, skills (even their beautiful animations), ecc., that I want to insist to the first thing I didn't like since聽the first moment we heard that: the name "Virtuoso".

Seriously? I don't know, even looking at the simple聽silhouette I can't think about a sort of Bard/Virtuoso specialization (and yes, "virtuoso" has not a single meaning and there are even more聽for italians, lol, but I believe that many people have still in mind the main among all)...

Plus, the聽videos, our聽beta character聽and the wiki description about this specialization clearly show us how the Virtuoso creates blades instead of phantasms/clones to change his combat style to an OFFENSIVE聽one and, well, to me it's not so related with a bard/virtuoso (that sounds -ohw!- kind of supporter).

Then, since we have mostly blades to throw, Psionic skills unrelated to music and Bladesongs even more unrelated to music (only their titles includes words linked to music, the descriptions talk ONLY聽about blades), can we please change name in something like... Uhm... Bladeconjurer or a similar option that FIT the concept? 莽w莽

In any case, thanks for this specialization, at the moment it's my favorite despite this critique (and please let it be constructive 'cause is not intended as an offense)!

-Long Live GW2! <3-

Edited by ArcaRay.2608
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45 minutes ago, ArcaRay.2608 said:

Well, there are so many comments reflecting my thoughts on traits, skills (even their beautiful animations), ecc., that I want to insist to the first thing I didn't like since聽the first moment we heard that: the name "Virtuoso".

Then, since we have mostly blades to throw, Psionic skills unrelated to music and Bladesongs even more unrelated to music (only their titles includes words linked to music, the descriptions talk ONLY聽about blades), can we please change name in something like... Uhm... Bladeconjurer or a similar option that FIT the concept? 莽w莽

Came here to say exactly this!聽

Bladecaller聽for example is a much cooler聽name that not only reflects the actual concept and gameplay of the spec but also stays in keeping with 'bladesongs' and the other musical naming conventions聽(this is not a bard at all!)

On the topic of gameplay feedback:聽

  • I completely agree with the comments about rewarding聽close range on Mental Focus being very weird. Why does that trait exist when you've聽given us 1200 range on dagger AND bladesongs AND psionics and a push to keep enemies away? I feel the same way about dagger skill 2 as well. Feels like we should be rewarded for staying聽at range聽on a ranged spec that has a little less mobility than other mesmer specs.聽
  • Bladesongs 1-3 being exactly the same as base shatters feels like a huge missed opportunity. What about a dash/blink that increases in distance with blades? What about blades that hit allies and give them a unique buff of some kind? What about something unique and tradeoff-y like bouncing daggers between allies (soft ccing) and enemies (hard ccing)?
  • Bladesongs having a cast time feels clunky and bad to use - especially considering they've already been given a downside by being projectiles that can miss moving targets and get reflected / blocked by a whole list of things in this game.
  • Psionic skills, on the other hand, feel聽very聽fun to use.聽
  • The animation of Sword of Decimation should be differentiated from Rain of Blades. I think removing the circle glyph thing from Decimation and increasing the visual size of the big sword crashing down would do this and also make it feel like more of a big聽impact.
  • The elite skill is super slow and hard to hit a lot of the time, even in pve. Increasing the width or the speed of the skill聽would help a lot.
  • I see no reason the new sword 3 shouldn't just blink you to the target and immobilize on return, keeping in line with the existing skill but removing the clone part (I聽think this skill would be better working like this in general, blinking first and swapping later)
  • Mirage聽is already trying and succeeding at being a condition damage spec for mesmer. Why is Virtuoso trying to compete and conflict with that? The bottom trait line should be more mobility or survival or utility focused, instead of trying to do something Mirage already does well.
  • Also now that we have multiple choices and聽clear condi and聽power dps specs聽#buffchronosupport2021 and stop trying to make all the specs do everything (they are called specializations for a reason).聽

I would like to say though, for the record, Virtuoso is my favourite spec of the three we've been shown so far!聽

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Don't want to write a mile long post for things that mostly got pointed out here so i'll just stick to the basic problem of the new Mesmer Elite:

  1. No synergy with rest of the Mesmer traits! (mostly due to lack of illusions)
  2. Zero to non self-condi cleanse in Virtuoso skills/traits (trying to sneak Aegis here and there is good but maybe replace some of the vulnerability with condi cleanse?)
  3. No bounding interaction with the other classes in group or squad scenarios.
  4. All of the blade skills can be reflected (they are all projectiles!) - this is one of the major oversights of the Virtuoso (maybe make pierce skills to pierce through reflect skills too or at least some of them.Most of the Virtuoso skills pierce and add vulnerability)
  5. Too much Vulnerability ! (replacing it with something else will help with build variations and overall synergy with other classes)

Right now I feel like Elementalist on steroids sniping single targets like a ranger with longbow and dropping blade storms like meteor showers over large enemy groups.

Edited by Luna.9640
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4 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

The Virtuoso sword 3 bugs like crazy (meaning it fails to connect with the target and generate a blade) on uneven terrain and for some reason has a slow travel time.

Why? It's virtually a worse thief sword 2, losing us the root for the CC bar damage in PvE and leaving us with a weak cripple.

because devs are lazy, and instead of giving us a new skill they reused mirage sword leap, which was already buggy as kitten.

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On 8/17/2021 at 4:09 PM, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Let us know what you think about the virtuoso! What do you really like? What needs to be improved or adjusted?

Found a bug? Let us know in the bug thread.

Pretty much: GOOD JOB whoever designed the class and animations!

The animations:聽聽Oh boy i haven't seen animations聽 THAT聽GOOD聽in gw2 since the vanilla Guardian sanctuary / tomes, shield #5, or mesmer staff #5,聽 absolutelly a pleasure to see, only dagger #3 seems abit "too much" animations wise haha ( i see many doctor strange nods in the animations and i love that )

Balance:聽I personally would not worry about "numbers" as that can be tweaked and you know better

Gameplay / traits:聽in general is really fun to play ( reason why i have "merged" all the sections in one) , glass cannon with some options to be defensive in traits, and probably a condition specc available too? ( havent' tried that tho )

No complaints for me really on the class.

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5 minutes ago, Yashizuko.9165 said:

Pretty much: GOOD JOB whoever designed the class and animations!

The animations:聽聽Oh boy i haven't seen animations聽 THAT聽GOOD聽in gw2 since the vanilla Guardian sanctuary / tomes, shield #5, or mesmer staff #5,聽 absolutelly a pleasure to see, only dagger #3 seems abit "too much" animations wise haha ( i see many doctor strange nods in the animations and i love that )

Balance:聽I personally would not worry about "numbers" as that can be tweaked and you know better

Gameplay / traits:聽in general is really fun to play ( reason why i have "merged" all the sections in one) , glass cannon with some options to be defensive in traits, and probably a condition specc available too? ( havent' tried that tho )

No complaints for me really on the class.

So is this PvE or PvP....3 posts total how interesting....

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The dagger is very underwhelming. 1 deals too little damage. Based on my testing, its the lowest auto attack damage mesmer has, even when using other weapons with viper stat and dagger with berserker(!).聽2 is better than others, but the return is too slow. 3 is too slow is as well. The class feels really clunky when you have a dagger, because everything else in virtuoso kit is also slow with a cast time and animation and you feel really slow even with聽quickness.聽

Bladesongs feel underwhelming compared to clones. As it stands, you lose all clone utility such as distraction and breaking targetting, and you don't get much in return. Mind wrack deals more or similar damage to F1 bladeslong, which is just sad because it's instant and you don't have to face your target. Its also aoe. Similarly, all shatters of same slot feel better than bladesongs as it currently stands. So you basically gain nothing but fancy animations in terms of F1, F2, F3 and F4.聽

The heal being a projectile is very limiting, specially when everything else in Virtuoso's kit pierces, but this one doesn't. So聽you need to face your target and nothing needs to between you. This is probably the mist limited heal in the entire game. You shouldn't have to face your target and it should pierce also. Its a heal skill, and it doesn't even heal that much. Its all about those blades hitting, which often don't in pvp or even chaotic pve moments.

The last 3 traits feel underwhelping for power pve. Very underwhelming. This is suppose to be the maximum聽oomph of the spec, but lets look at the options:

When you block or dodge an attack, you shoot a blade at your target. Unless you are tanking, this will not see a lot of use.

Automatically stock blades on an interval when below 3. It gives you good start between fights, but after than it goes to trash levels, as you can reach three from zero very quickly in combat, rendering this almost useless. Might occasionally give you one blade in combat. But as I said, if you have quickness uptime and alacrity uptime (which you will in organized pve), you will reach 3 quickly and not benefit from this .

Bleeding you apply is stronger and gain a blade when applying certain stacks of bleed. This is not bad, but for a power build it doesn't have any use.聽

So as a power build in pve, you basically gain close to nothing from your "best" traits.

In pvp everything is a projectile. In zerg wvw or pvp, any reflect field will obliterate Virtuoso. The class needs at least one counter to reflects. Either temporary unblockable projectile, or make one utility skill destroy/disable reflects. I think Sword of Decimation is good for this. Fits the theme of it.

Edited by Nezekan.2671
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22 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

If you are regularly fighting for 9 seconds without generating blades then there is a problem.

Infinite Forge is the only good trait on the entire thing.聽 If you win a fight by the time you break combat you have 3 blades ready to go for the next fight and that's extremely useful in PvP.聽

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From pvp perspective it needs more defensive utilities and even offensive ones are kinda easy to dodge and suffer from projectile hate which is huge in gw2 (btw scourge have 8sec projectile denial skill and weaknes on top of it in pvp still yes). Shatters f1 and f2 are fine to have cast time but being projectiles adds too much counterplays and it is kinda weird that this class have no unblockable traits with such a design (and i am ranger main). Dagger is good dmg but it needs to offer some kind of utility which is problem of this spec a whole mostly. So what i mean about utility is that聽this spec needs better mobility, active dmg mitigation f3 shatter needs to be instant to have any value and not be a projectile while new f4 makes mesmer even more bad into daredevil which was already bad enough so i guess this spec made mesmer problems just bigger. The class is overall fun design and it is fun to fight against which is great step for future聽direction but some old specs and designs make it unusable in pvp. Forgot to mention that bleed dmg is rly bad even if you trait it full and it is again deeper problem because scourge gets more value of playing power build with bunch of condis than virtuoso will ever get from taking condition amulet and again it not just virtuoso problem but it is huge design issue (only 5 condis do dmg while the rest have same duration and grants same utility on power builds especially after expertise amulet removed from pvp).

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2 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Bleeding you apply is stronger and gain a blade when applying certain stacks of bleed. This is not bad, but for a power build it doesn't have any use.聽

Actually this is untrue. The main reason being that this in PvE generates blades more quickly than Infinite Forge due to the amount of bleeding the phantasms cause.聽

The real potential of this trait obviously only unfolds at 100% crit on your phantasms when also running sharper images. Making your Swordsman Stock 2.8 blades, your Warden 3.4 blades and the Pistoliero 2.9 blades. Obviously this is dependant on the number of hits a phantasm fires!

Off topic:

Running Bloodsong on a bleeding focused Virtuoso feels AMAZING. You stock blades faster than you can shatter them. A single Phantasmal Duelist applies 16.6 stacks of bleeding at a critchance of 70% which translates to 3.32 blades from bleeding and 1 blade from the phantasm despawning. It feels extremely rewarding to use and I cannot stress enough how great it would be to make condition virtuoso all about shattering ALL DAY LONG! :D

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6 minutes ago, Me Games Ma.3024 said:

Actually this is untrue. The main reason being that this in PvE generates blades more quickly than Infinite Forge due to the amount of bleeding the phantasms cause.聽

The real potential of this trait obviously only unfolds at 100% crit on your phantasms when also running sharper images. Making your Swordsman Stock 2.8 blades, your Warden 3.4 blades and the Pistoliero 2.9 blades. Obviously this is dependant on the number of hits a phantasm fires!

Off topic:

Running Bloodsong on a bleeding focused Virtuoso feels AMAZING. You stock blades faster than you can shatter them. A single Phantasmal Duelist applies 16.6 stacks of bleeding at a critchance of 70% which translates to 3.32 blades from bleeding and 1 blade from the phantasm despawning. It feels extremely rewarding to use and I cannot stress enough how great it would be to make condition virtuoso all about shattering ALL DAY LONG! 馃槃

Its still super underwhelming as last trait. Compare it to Infinite Horizons or Chronophantasmia and you will see. A power based build should have better options in the last trait column. It feels better to be condi than power with Virtuoso, but I don't think it can even get close to Condi mirage in terms of damage and it shouldn't be the focus of the class anyway. Also, you are forced to use blade based weapons, which is awkward for a condi build.

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From a WvW perspective.聽

Virtuoso seems mostly fine. The blades do little damage each for the moment but the shatters can be cast very often so i think it should be fine. Maybe provide a trait to reduce further the bladesongs CD (the standard 20% would be fine )so they can be casted more often, looking specifically into bladesong requiem 聽to provide better self-sustain.聽

One big caveat i see with the class is that the shatters and utilities require the e-spec to stay in place and that does not play well with mesmers. It would be ideal if Virtuoso could cast shatter and utilities while moving (shatters root the player in place and the elite cancels if the mesmer moves for example)聽

Also it would be ideal if they could cast shatters and elite behind them, the e-spec seems defined to be highly mobile with a lot of reposition in mind but the abilities have that clunky need to be rooted which breaks the flow of the combat.聽

Edit: just checked and it seems the shatters and elite work fine while moving, maybe check under swiftness.聽

Edited by anduriell.6280
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2 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

From a WvW perspective.聽

Virtuoso seems mostly fine. The blades do little damage each for the moment but the shatters can be cast very often so i think it should be fine. Maybe provide a trait to reduce further the bladesongs CD (the standard 20% would be fine )so they can be casted more often, looking specifically into bladesong requiem 聽to provide better self-sustain.聽


If you simply strafe away, the F1 will miss you. It moves in a straight line and has a cast time. No dodge or reflect needed, though they obviously work too.

Currently mind wrack deals more damage than F1 blade, is AoE, instant and cannot be reflected. Please don't call it "fine". Its objectively inferior.

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9 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Its still super underwhelming as last trait. Compare it to Infinite Horizons or Chronophantasmia and you will see. A power based build should have better options in the last trait column. It feels better to be condi than power with Virtuoso, but I don't think it can even get close to Condi mirage in terms of damage and it shouldn't be the focus of the class anyway. Also, you are forced to use blade based weapons, which is awkward for a condi build.

I tested condi virtuoso in pvp a bit and it seems like indeed - condi is the way to go for this spec, the power dps is simply too low to make any sort of impact.

ironically F2 shatter is actuallly great condi pressure聽聽(if it hits, which is a 50/50 gamble if you duel someone), but I kind of found bleeding contributes the least to the whole damage (even though I had the trait chosen + the pistol trait from duelling).

so at the end instead of spamming F2 and praying it hits it鈥檚 better to just run mirage (btw it鈥檚 hilarious how power block mirage can obliterate virtuoso - so many channels and long casting times to interrupt)聽

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23 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:


If you simply strafe away, the F1 will miss you. It moves in a straight line and has a cast time. No dodge or reflect needed, though they obviously work too.

Currently mind wrack deals more damage than F1 blade, is AoE, instant and cannot be reflected. Please don't call it "fine". Its objectively inferior.

You obviously are forgetting Mindwrack needs you to create the clones first which doesn't work against anyone聽unless the mesmer is using macros to chain the attacks making them instant but you risk getting your account banned (multiple skills with one button press is not allowed).聽

Bladesongs uses projectiles which travel distances better you get used to that. If the target聽 avoid your blades that seems to be more of a you problem.聽

If you want the shatters to work like聽Rapid_Fire聽keep in mind that is channelling skill which means you would be shooting slower for longer time to follow the target.

If you think it would be better to have the Virtuoso shooting one blade every 0.5s while chanelling would be better than what you have now, think again.聽

Edited by anduriell.6280
smol correction
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