Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[appelflap.8310]

very late post but whatever, i didn't/don't have time to write my full thoughts.

 

First of all ty for a spec without clones, less qq hopefully.

I liked how we keep the blades stocked when out of combat.

Badesongs cast time should see some love, it reminded me of a worse sevenshot so make it 1/2 sec for all bladesongs also let it track ppl like sevenshot does. so ppl can't just you know... sidestep it.

You guys better not nerf retargeting with bladesongs i still want to be able to cast it behind me, it requires some skill and should not be nerfed if that's the case. bladesongs also go on cd sometimes when not directly facing targets, i know this is how it works but make the LoS like a cone shape instead of a line.

Dagger damage is just way too low and not good, no synergy whatsoever with virtuoso traits.

Half the clone generation traits does not work with blade traits, i could play half the builds i wanted to play.

NO MOBILILTY, WHERE IS OUR EASY ACCESS TO SWIFTNESS LIKE LITERALLY ALL OTHER CLASSES.

 

Dagger weapon skills:

 

flying cutter: dmg is way too low, skill is fine.

bladecall:  dmg is too low. it is only good when you're close and when you have no target, if you have a target when you're close it doesn't do the short return for max dmg. just make it ground target to fix it. lacks conditions like criplle for example.

unstable bladestorm: dmg is too low.

 

dagger skills needs some synergy with virtuoso traits.

 

Sword 3: great!

 

 

Healing skill:  

 

trash, if ppl didn't notice this then idk. yet anet didn't.

 

Utilities:

 

i don't see the point in taking these utilities when we have no mobility with virtuoso so it's trash.

 

Elite skill: 

 

trash, like do i have to explain...

 

Traits:

 

psychic blades: does not work with all clone traits, minor trait is good if all traits would work. 

 

bladeturn refrain: i guess this is good enough if cast time of bladesongs gets faster.

mental focus: another dmg multiplier, traits was decent but i rather have something else.

jagged wind: anet wants this line to be condi so whatever.

 

deadly blades: good enough for me for a minor, i'm not forced to go domi now for many vuln stacks (some other ways now)

 

duelist's reversal:  i liked this trait

phantasmal blades: blade dmg way too low, trait also bad if dmg of blade was good.

sharpening sorrow:  anet wants this line to be condi so whatever.

 

quiet intensity: i like this minor trait.

 

psychic riposte: blade dmg too low, trait didn't work with psychic blades, deceptive evasion, illusionary inspiration, signet of the ether if i remember correctly.

Infinite forge: i guess it's fine but it is not infinite, let it go to max blade count.

bloodsong:  anet wants this line to be condi so whatever.

 

Bladesongs:

 

bladesong harmony: skill is fine, los needs to be in a cone, should track and have a cast time just like sevenshot.

bladesong sorrow: skill is fine for me

bladesong dissonance: skill is fine for me

bladeturn requiem: skill is fine for me tho dmg is low and annoying we're forced into attacking instead of just blocking when vs shocking aura for example.

 

my feedback in 5 mins, ill maybe make an extended one later.

I'm pretty sure other ppl got some better suggestions.

playing virtuoso was alot of fun but it lacks so much, honestly if virtuoso doesn't get easy access to swiftness i won't even bother playing this trash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by appelflap.8310

[Nezekan.2671]

Blade damage triggering from traits is too low (its 60 in pvp with full berserker gear lol) and dagger auto attack damage is also too low. F1 damage is also low. I think dagger auto attack needs to stock a blade when flurry triggers, similar to Scepter. Or simply buff the numbers.

[Armageddeon.1795]

Just wanted to add my feedback on the Virtuoso.

 

The Mesmer has always seem to had a mechanic that made it annoying to fight against.

- For Base Mesmer it was the clones mixed with invisibility, teleworking, etc which made them hard to identify.

 

- Chonomancer had alot of blocks and skill cooldown reduction, making openings hard to find.

 

- Mirage had the dodge mechanic that made them hard to hit

 

- Virtuoso seems to have a lot of flashy hard hitting abilities that are slow or require the target to stand in the effect to really feel it. It feels like it needs more cc worked into the kit to give it more time for skills to land, and bring back that annoyance factor.

[Hot Boy.7138]

Virtuoso just doesn't feel like a different way to play mesmer. The difference is purely cosmetic in trading clones for blade icons overhead. The reason for that is because shatters are fundamentally the same. Virtuoso needs new profession mechanics to make it feel different and a unique playstyle. I'm disappointed in virtuoso after seeing all the other elite specs trailers at this point.

[VaileCearo.3819]

So technically the virtuoso's trial period expired a while ago now but due to a bug in the launching of today's beta event for other elite specs I was able to play around with it again for about an hour before I was forced to re-update my client.

I just wanted to say that the trait lines though seem a little bit underwhelming despite the fact that they work. I feel like they don't do a lot to really push the theme of the spec which I think is kind of a missed opportunity. I prefer playing condi mesmer builds no matter what spec I'm using and the virtuoso seems to handle itself okay with that but not as well as I think it should. We've got bleed from the blade skills through the trait lines but since it is daggers we're using here I just can't help but feel that poison should also be an available condition for them and I really hope that's something that gets considered before the live release of EoD.

Additionally, while I appreciate the thematics of the Virtuoso being maintained in it's heal skill I just can't imagine why anyone would want to take that heal skill over something like Ether Feast since that one heals you per active clone and Virtuoso is able to have 5 active blades (which count as clones) as compared to all other mesmer specs being capped at a maximum of 3 clones which means it is capable of providing a very significant heal compared to other heal skills.

Over all, I'm happy to finally have a ranged elite spec for the Mesmer since I've always preferred playing it like a mage or a caster and generally since release have avoided playing mesmer in melee range as much as I possibly could. Even now I play a double staff mirage because to me that's more enjoyable than axe or sword, I like kiting enemies and killing them from afar rather than being up close and personal with them. That said though I feel like the Virtuoso is just missing that flavor that it's name and insinuated presentation otherwise seems to be advertising. I think it needs more mobility, at least just a little, and that it's traits could do more to push the theme instead of letting the skills carry it's theme all by themselves. 

EDIT:

I forgot to add that I also hope the fine folks at ArenaNet might be able to still go back and add dagger as an offhand option as well for the Virtuoso. I know that's kind of not the precedent set for adding one handed weapons to classes with elite specs however with everything else getting 2 handed weapons and major mechanic re-structures I still stand by the Virtuoso feeling a bit underwhelming. On top of that, the core thematic of the Virtuoso being a dagger wielding mesmer just feels like it needs dagger/dagger to be an option. Not having dagger/dagger as a gearing option for something like the Virtuoso just feels very wrong to me.

The hotfix for today's beta event didn't delete the Virtuoso I made earlier this morning though so I'm going to continue to play around with it and come up with more feedback I can then come back and provide. That said, I really hope ArenaNet sees and considers some of the feedback this spec has received. I know there's a lot of negativity here on this thread about it but there is a lot of valid feedback here all the same and I'd really hate to see End of Dragons launch with Virtuoso remaining what it is now, a missed opportunity.

Edited September 21, 2021 by VaileCearo.3819

[Darkgaiden.3791]

Very little to add, the weapon move set was fun, the new traits were well done, all i can think about is probably some numbers adjustment, but overall, the class was super solid, had a lot of fun with it 😁.

 

Tough i noticed something, but that is probably material for other discusion (not sure). When playing virtuoso i was thinking "oh, no clones so all that goes into damage, obviously, since enemies always know who the real one is".... and while that is not 100% true, i have been in situations when i have 3 clones, i break targeting, and the enemy STILL knows who to focus.... so this class is probably born from the idea "mesmer pve does not work as it should"... i dont know, went off track there, i felt it could be of some help to maybe "fix" stuff in the core class, so the new ones feel trully their own thing, not like the "solution to a problem"....that is it.

Peace ✌️

Edited September 22, 2021 by Darkgaiden.3791

[Xei Han.8736]

Virtuoso is the only new spec that I haven't tried...for one simple reason: optic overload.  Please tone down the visuals on this one.

[Artyport.2084]

I love the virtuoso for the cloneless aspect of the specialization.

Lets take away the phantasms too!

 

Let the mesmer do the attacks while gaining phantasmal armor.

all the traits that would effect phantasm would effect you while gaining a bonus to toughness.. 

if the skill made two illusions come out the mesmer would use a clone just for the animation.

 

Scrap most of the condi line and make traits for that phantasmal armor

 

+1 if instead of the exact same visuals of the attacks could have a more performer based animation.. to help with the idea of being a "Virtuoso"

 

Staff and Sword i think are fine.. Just add more butterflies.

focus- NO AXES! just a twirl that sends out daggers

greatsword- twirl aruound with your floating greatsword

torch- fire breather kind of visual

[Axl.8924]

I heard this game called the most balanced quest what do you guys think? is it underpowered? balanced? broken op? 

I'm not calling it anything i was asknig since i asked mightyteapot and he said its perfectly balanced so i was curious what you guys thought overal 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Axl.8924]

Not saying i agree i'm just asking you guys opinion about tha.

[JVJD.4912]

I appreciate the extra aoe skills that comes with  this spec however I cannot forgo the loss of clones to have swords sticking on top of my head.  Though  I do not main mesmer  I do play one for world events and occasional WvW , for me the clones is what separate this class from other ranged classes and makes it very unique not like the copy paste of frost mage from wow. That said the clones are also the integral part of this classes defence making any build viable and fun to play anyone who picks this class.  

I tried ,its not for me . I am sticking with Mirage. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Axl.8924

Mighty teapot called it the most fair elite spec because in comparison to everything else is absolute trash.

And his suggestions to fix it are horrible.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[mortrialus.3062]

2 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I heard this game called the most balanced quest what do you guys think? is it underpowered? balanced? broken op? 

I'm not calling it anything i was asknig since i asked mightyteapot and he said its perfectly balanced so i was curious what you guys thought overal 

 

 

Teapot literally only cares about how overpowered necro is so if he's saying Virtuoso is exactly where it needs to be, he means it's exactly where it needs to be for him to no diff kill them on necro.  Also Teapot is a WvW zerger, not really an SPvPer.  So that's what he cares most about.

That he has so much sway and influence with the devs has been a disaster the past few years which is why we're seeing stuff like Minionmancer being on both of the finalist teams in the MAT, and the winning team also had a double port reaper to boot.

Where did he talk about Virtuoso? No idea what he said in specific. 

My extensive thoughts are on page 10 of this thread.  Short of it is that it gives up everything good about core mesmer including damage, in exchange for nothing but downgrades while dagger doesn't provide the tools to be a viable ranged damage dealer like you would see on other better designed ranged damage kits.  Only one utility is decently good, the distortion, and the traits aren't very good except the one that auto generates blades up to 3 while in combat.

Edited September 22, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

9 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Teapot literally only cares about how overpowered necro is so if he's saying Virtuoso is exactly where it needs to be, he means it's exactly where it needs to be for him to no diff kill them on necro.

That he has so much sway and influence with the devs has been a disaster the past few years which is why we're seeing stuff like Minionmancer being on both of the finalist teams in the MAT, and the winning team also had a double port reaper to boot.

Where did he talk about Virtuoso? No idea what he said in specific. 

My extensive thoughts are on page 10 of this thread. 

He talked in one of the tea time or whatever is called.

His suggestions were a trait to get f skills unblockable and one other trait to get daggers skills unblockable.

 

Edit not sure if unblockable or can't be reflected.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Axl.8924]

4 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

He talked in one of the tea time or whatever is called.

His suggestions were a trait to get f skills unblockable and one other trait to get daggers skills unblockable.

My issue with virtuoso while yes i like the illusionless shatter because finally more focus on dps shatters over situational stuff for offensive and defensive, its so slow and you are left so open and vulnerable. even in pve the delay on shatters is kinda weird.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Axl.8924

[mortrialus.3062]

14 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

He talked in one of the tea time or whatever is called.

His suggestions were a trait to get f skills unblockable and one other trait to get daggers skills unblockable.

Some access to unblockable would be nice on this spec, just because it would be something different but I don't think it needs to be like absurdly overloaded with unblockable, just design things better.  I bring this up but Virtuoso dagger is set up like this:

1.  Low velocity projectile.  No other utility.

2. Main damage skill.  A fan of low velocity projectiles. Requires getting into melee range, detargeting the enemy, aiming the camera at their feet for maximum effect.

3.  A slow projectile that shoots other slow projectiles. 

Meanwhile other, better ranged weapon toolkits are set up like this:  Like why is dagger 3 a projectile that shoots projectiles instead of an AOE?  Why does it launch from the mesmer instead of wherever you want? 

Ranger Longbow

1.  High Velocity Projectile

2.  Main damage skill, high velocity good at any range.

3.  Stealth to escape a target that gets close.

4.  Knockback to push a close target away.

5.  A long range AOE cripple that is ground targeted, applies cripple to keep targets away, and can rack up 10k damage.

Deadeye Rifle:

1.  High Velocity Projectile

2.   Cripple / Immobilize.

3.  Main damage skill, high velocity good at any range.

4.  A massive blink backwards that can be spammed if targets get close / a projectile destroying wall if someone tries to attack you from range. 

Dagger just doesn't have the tools to be an effective ranged damage dealer.  You could design itso that yeah it's projectile heavy but like the 3 skill is a powerful AOE that you can throw out wherever you want if there's to much projectile hate like rangers can with barrage, or you could make the dagger 3 destroy projectiles like the daredevil rifle, and apply crippled or chilled.  You can just make the 2 skill just good, at any range.

And for traits, there's so much missing from Virtuoso, it has absolutely no answer for conditions anywhere on the spec.  This could be a good opportunity to give mesmer some conditions and boons it doesn't typically have a lot of like Super Speed, Chill, Immobilize, Reveal, something that would help it as a ranged damage dealer.  There's no trait based stunbreak, there could have been a trait that made Bladesong Dissonance and Bladeturn Requiem break stun like guardian's Indomitable Courage. You could have something like a grandmaster that makes the Bladesongs Unblockable if you use a max stack of blades or something.   But there's just nothing new or exciting here or even good here. 
 

I guess you could call Virtuoso fair in that it is the most absolutely vanilla ranged damage dealer with literally nothing else going for it.  Just pure vanilla you shoot things at other people.  It also completely lack's mesmer's identity as a class that dominates and controls players. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Levetty.1279]

6 hours ago, Artyport.2084 said:

I love the virtuoso for the cloneless aspect of the specialization.

Lets take away the phantasms too!

 

Let the mesmer do the attacks while gaining phantasmal armor.

all the traits that would effect phantasm would effect you while gaining a bonus to toughness.. 

if the skill made two illusions come out the mesmer would use a clone just for the animation.

 

Scrap most of the condi line and make traits for that phantasmal armor

 

+1 if instead of the exact same visuals of the attacks could have a more performer based animation.. to help with the idea of being a "Virtuoso"

 

Staff and Sword i think are fine.. Just add more butterflies.

focus- NO AXES! just a twirl that sends out daggers

greatsword- twirl aruound with your floating greatsword

torch- fire breather kind of visual

I agree, I really don't know why the spec still has phantasms. Far more downsides to phantasms then to clones.

[mortrialus.3062]

12 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I agree, I really don't know why the spec still has phantasms. Far more downsides to phantasms then to clones.

Yeah, like if it doesn't have phantasms, all you have to worry about is every potential weapon combination having a skill bar with only 4 skills that do anything and 2 core utilities disabled. 

The 4 weapon skills elite spec.  Brilliant. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Aedil.1296]

Virtuoso is the only spec I like so far. 

The rest is just rubbish, sorry to be blunt! 

[Levetty.1279]

8 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Yeah, like if it doesn't have phantasms, all you have to worry about is every potential weapon combination having a skill bar with only 4 skills that do anything and 2 core utilities disabled. 

The 4 weapon skills elite spec.  Brilliant. 

On Virtuoso skills that summon clones now summon blades. If they actually went all the way with the theme and removed all AI then the phantasm skills would do something else, like I don't know, the idea in the post I quoted and agreed with.

 

I know you are just here to troll but actually read the posts you are quoting.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I mean it's not that hard, phantasmal zerker instead of a phantasm you only do the boomerang attack which hits for the zerker damage.

Instead of pistol phantasm you fire the pistol and do the damage phantasm did.

And so on.

The fact that phantasms are present in virtuoso only shows how half-assed the whole kitten is.

[Artyport.2084]

8 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Yeah, like if it doesn't have phantasms, all you have to worry about is every potential weapon combination having a skill bar with only 4 skills that do anything and 2 core utilities disabled. 

The 4 weapon skills elite spec.  Brilliant. 

The whole point is to let the Mesmer do everything solo. Not relying on clones or phantasms. 
 

you would still have a “phantasm” skill but instead you would perform the action and gain phantasmal armor.

 

phantasmal armor gives the Mesmer a little defense with the loss of clones and phantasms

 

phantasmal armor: gain toughness while performing phantasm skills 

 

example: phantasmal defender. Gain phantasmal armor and block incoming attacks. Once block is complete lash out. 
 

all traits that would normally effect your phantasm would effect you. 
 

then there could be traits like.

while having phantasmal armor enemies who attack you gain confusion.

 

in action it would look like u putting up an illusionary shield and gaining a purple outline(phantasmal armor). If you are trained for your phantasms to spawn with quickness you would gain quickness. Then if traited your target would hit you getting confusion.   

 

It could be fun. 

[Mik.3401]

16 hours ago, Artyport.2084 said:

I love the virtuoso for the cloneless aspect of the specialization.

Lets take away the phantasms too!

 

Let the mesmer do the attacks while gaining phantasmal armor.

all the traits that would effect phantasm would effect you while gaining a bonus to toughness.. 

if the skill made two illusions come out the mesmer would use a clone just for the animation.

 

Scrap most of the condi line and make traits for that phantasmal armor

 

+1 if instead of the exact same visuals of the attacks could have a more performer based animation.. to help with the idea of being a "Virtuoso"

 

Staff and Sword i think are fine.. Just add more butterflies.

focus- NO AXES! just a twirl that sends out daggers

greatsword- twirl aruound with your floating greatsword

torch- fire breather kind of visual

Don’t give them ideas with taking away the phantasms lol 

[Artyport.2084]

2 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

Don’t give them ideas with taking away the phantasms lol 

Why? Isn’t the point of elite specs to play differently from core. 
 

as long as they are providing something to replace it 

[Mik.3401]

50 minutes ago, Artyport.2084 said:

Why? Isn’t the point of elite specs to play differently from core. 
 

as long as they are providing something to replace it 

So far with virtuoso they took away something with super inferior replacement which is kind of  like just taking away. Your armor idea is interesting, but it’s kind of like chaos armor no?