Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Ombras.2853]

I don’t know if feedback is still appreciated - even tho there are no more beta events before the release of EOD.

I only wanted to pinpoint some things.

1. This is pretty much a PvE spec. I’m not complaining, I am for the most part enjoying PvE and WvW content, not playing much PvP and not really interested in it. But Mesmer really needs help in the latter. As Virtuoso is right now, it offers nothing to PvP.
2. As a PvE spec, I like the fact you can actually play a “sort of” PChrono that doesn’t necessarily have to go Sword main hand. During your rotations, in both Strikes and Raids (but also Fractals) it isn’t always doable to complete an autoattack chain (and aa #3 is the only one worth, damage wise). Dagger/Sword + GS enables a much smoother rotation for non Immobile bosses, and there are quite a lot.
3. This is actually a 2-bis: even considered what I said above, the damage must be slightly higher. There was really no need to nerf the damage output of Virtuoso. We’re playing a class which is supposed to take over the power role (as in, Chrono-Quickness, Mirage-Condi, Virtuoso-Power), hence it makes no sense to have basically the same damage output of PChrono (it’s just slightly better, not compensated by all the things you lose by going Virtuoso). If the damage would be reverted as it was before the previous beta, it would be good. But we need it to stay on the 40k meter.
4. For reasons above, I think the solution is actually quite easy. No need to rework everything, just give Mirage back second dodge for PvP and WvW (especially the latter, how the heck can you remove second dodge in such a wide format?) and slightly increase the Virtuoso damage. You’ll have a good combination of specs for all kind of content in Mesmer.

 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Edit: my thread was moved so this comment is not needed.

Edited December 14, 2021 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Axl.8924]

Do you guys think if they reworked the skill to have less lag and maybe a bit of extra mobility here and there that virtuoso would become competitive versus chrono as DPS spec? what do you guys think?

[Urphen.2857]

22 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Do you guys think if they reworked the skill to have less lag and maybe a bit of extra mobility here and there that virtuoso would become competitive versus chrono as DPS spec? what do you guys think?

Only talking about Raid dps Virtu is by now competitive vs Chrono since the spec is easier to play so the average player will do better dps while in the same time a Chrono played by a rly good player will outperform Virtu.

[Curunen.8729]

I didn't play any of the recent betas so can't comment from experience.

But reading about Dagger - sad that it doesn't have much going for it still. A big reason to play virtuoso is to have fun with a new weapon, but it seems still that core weapons are more useful...

Edited December 25, 2021 by Curunen.8729
forums triple spacing paragraphs for some reason.

[Salt Mode.3780]

33 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

I didn't play any of the recent betas so can't comment from experience.

But reading about Dagger - sad that it doesn't have much going for it still. A big reason to play virtuoso is to have fun with a new weapon, but it seems still that core weapons are more useful...

Its quite hilarious how people who say Virtuoso is viable but they are using core weapons because of how lackluster the dagger is whether it be staff or gs or even sword.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Ombras.2853]

That’s actually a reasonable choice, tho.

Not that I don’t want it to be better, it IS kinda bland in having only pure damage output, but it’s not terrible either.

[piitb.7635]

Haven't had the opportunity to actually try Virt, but from just looking at it, the dagger mainhand just doesn't jive too well with the traits.

 

It's like all the traits are focused on single target stuff.  Then the dagger as a  weapon is focused on aoe.

 

 

The traits make the spec sound great. and pretty powerful.  But then we have to turn around and not use the weapon it should be designed for it.

[desu.2514]

i cant say anything for pve, but virt was pretty decent in pvp and wvw if you play to the strengths the traits gave you going high precision condi or high precision glass hybrid. OP no, in need of bug fixes and QoL improvements on skills, definitely. will need to see the full release to make a proper judgement. but i can say i enjoyed it, it has its issues, utility skills need a huge buff, aka one is basically a carbon copy of the necro damage well but deals half the damage with the same stats? whats that about anet?  mainly it needs either cast times on shatters being removed or severely reduced maybe 1/4 second, 1/4 is a huge hit already compared to instant cast, or the after cast animations being sped up. and the ulti is total trash and needs a rework, basically a useless skill in pvp/wvw deals less damage than a single lava font from a ele and had a 60 second cd to boot.  sword leap is also very unreliable and usually just goes nowhere, clips terrain or even does funky stuff with no real explanation.

 

should be nice to play with all the kinks worked out though, very bursty, low sustain,  just change the ult skill to something else and we have ourselves a great spec. and tbh i didn't like virt at first it took me a good few days of playing to find its place and strengths. wouldn't complain at a faster projectile speed on dagger though

 

#change the ult! it feels more like a run of the mill utility skill than an ult

[Salt Mode.3780]

3 hours ago, desu.2514 said:

should be nice to play with all the kinks worked out though, very bursty, low sustain,  just change the ult skill to something else and we have ourselves a great spec. and tbh i didn't like virt at first it took me a good few days of playing to find its place and strengths. wouldn't complain at a faster projectile speed on dagger though

I don't recall any class at the moment that has low sustain that excels in PvP and in WvW (roaming). 

[Curunen.8729]

The one weird thing virtuoso does offer, long range condi via traits and dagger - where previously we had close/medium range in general. Kind of ironic for primarily intended power spec but at least something new.

Though again I can only draw from memory of the first beta so not sure if that is a viable option compared to alternatives.

But I am mildly hopeful about testing a build around dagger + traited focus, and taking advantage of template swapping out of combat to/from mirage situationally (ie blink/stealth). Not sure of specifics, need to see EoD gear stats and take advantage of fury/vitality as want to go power of some sort.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Curunen.8729

[Ombras.2853]

I think Dagger/Sword + GS will be more than viable.

But I don’t have any clue about “how much” viable we’re talking about.

 

[desu.2514]

On 1/3/2022 at 4:01 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I don't recall any class at the moment that has low sustain that excels in PvP and in WvW (roaming). 

i would agree for the most part because its easy to take a high sustain build and be able to make many mistakes compared to a low sustain and get 1 mistake, just dont tank with your face and land the skills and interrupts. something being hard doesn't make it suck, just more rewarding to do well with.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

On 1/5/2022 at 4:53 AM, desu.2514 said:

just more rewarding to do well with.

This has not been the case for Mesmer since like 2015. 

It's just masochistic tendencies.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Obliviscaris.6937

[Jace.8941]

Super late to the party! But I have been playing Condi reaper just for fun and it got me re-thinking Virtuoso. In the Betas, the bleed traits just didn't seem to do/stack enough. I like the idea of a bleed mesmer, even if it's just in PVP. So here are some ideas, possibly they have been shared before. 

First off, let's talk about Bladesong Sorrow...

 

This is part of the introduction to Virtuoso "virtuoso changes this by disregarding trickery and embracing all-out offense"

 

I understand the Mesmer F2 always does condi. But confusion on a class that is supposed to be focused on a more "direct" approach seems off. Flavor wise. If Bladesong sorrow did bleed however, that falls in line with the class theme and the condi traits. 

 

Next topic are those traits. even taking Jagged mind, you just can't stack bleeds consistently. What if Jagged mind was added as a major grandmaster trait and did something such as...

"Blade attacks deal reduced damage but apply bleeds." now this may be too good, but I got the idea from the reaper trait that applies bleeds when you apply chill. And giving it the drawback of your blades doing less damage MAY offset the bleeds. Bloodsong could then be reworked as a major adept where it just makes bleeds do more damage but no longer stacks blades. Sharpening sorrow is pretty nice still. Idk if that would need to be adjusted. 

 

Overall I am excited for the new Mesmer class and maybe the condi traits need to be scrapped all together. But just wanted to share my thoughts. 

[NashEquilSeek.2801]

I would like to share my thoughts, though probably a bit late here. I enjoyed playing Virtuoso, the cloneless concept is nice since the dagger stays with you even when mobs die. However, I couldn't shake the feeling that it's a bit... bland. I suppose it feels more of the same, I guess?

The two other elite specs seem to have a bit of "identity". Mirage offers a new evade system and thematically is illusion/deception on steroids. Chrono used to be the master of time (alac, slow, and quickness), tho now that's no longer true unfortunately. But Virtuoso? Seems to be some sort of bard-type theme, but do not feel like that at all.

Maybe the bladesong mechanics should be more about playing music? Eg throwing the dagger one at a time, but you can create some combo (chords/arpeggio) to create unique effects (eg, F1-F2-F3, or F4-F1-F1, etc). And perhaps the phantasms are your "orchestra members" which would react uniquely to each "chord" played during their appearances.

Edited January 19, 2022 by NashEquilSeek.2801
formatting

[Ithilwen.1529]

I've been combing the documentation. This is really strange.  An "elite" spec that is actually a nerf to core Mesmer.

 

Cast time on shatters? Forward only? ANET has been listening to PVP elitists. I have news, those elitists are a rather small, if vocal, faction in the game.

 

Some time ago, I suggested in the PvP forum that ANET should introduce the next class, Mirage, somewhat underpowered so that they'd have better PR with Mesmers when they buffed it rather than the expected chain of nerfs. Perhaps ANET took that advice to heart.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ithilwen.1529
clarity

[Yoci.2481]

They will always accept suggestions to make Mesmer weaker.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Interesting, they didn't fix anything, including most of the bugs we reported.

[Zenith.7301]

On 3/1/2022 at 10:08 AM, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Interesting, they didn't fix anything, including most of the bugs we reported.

 

 

Developers don't read these forums.

 

Look at the latest post history of any class developer. Nonexistent.

 

They send some CM to comb through threads for them, even though these CM's are not remotely qualified to discern meaningful class balance and design feedback. I do mots of these CM's even raid or do fractal CM's.

[Yoci.2481]

They do read these forums. Sometimes they even post here. Sneaky sneaky.

[psi.9304]

The Virtuoso just lack damage both for a condi or power. It take much longer than other classes to kill things,  playing the other specs you see the difference. I'm not expect and I only really play PVE.  I love mesmer and lore about it but feel so dishearten to play and I feel like the one class that is the most iconic class in the Guild Wars franchise just gets kitten on, thou Ele have probably just as bad as we do.

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

Dagger needs.. something. I don't know what, but there's little incentive over core weapons beyond a bit of novelty.

The lack of auto rotation to target when player character is stationary is really bad. Core skills like magic bullet or confusing images will always rotate character to target when standing still. Virtuoso dagger 2, 3 don't do this meaning having to manually make sure the character is rotated to target each time - this makes for awkward play.

[Curunen.8729]

Virtuoso really should have had a line pull somewhere - like Revenant's axe 5.

Maybe on F3 or Dagger, because the whole point being to line up enemies and make the most of the pierce.

To only have a core weapon (focus 4) to group targets is a shame.

[Ombras.2853]

Honestly, the laziness of the Dagger design makes me speechless.