Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Emrasu.2508]

well the class is fun to play but there are still some issues
i mostly do openworld and since my luck with getting a active map is low im mostly solo so while glass cannons can be used in my situation virtuoso seems lacking compared to the other glass cannon builds from other specs.
It does its job dont get me wrong but dagger synergy with offhand is pretty meh or non existant, so far i tried all except focus and im only really rolling with pistol to have an extra stun/daze
the confusion on sorrow is confusing me more than the enemies, im really not sure why its on there. it does way less damage than just torment and since we use phantasm blades instead of clones it doesnt quite fit the theme, on top of that to even get good condi damage we need percision but even with mixing viper/sinister (pricy) or viper/rampager (slightly cheaper btu still pricy) unless we have a friend that can increase our percision (warrior with banner or ranger/rev passive trait)our dps can fall off easily once fury wears off unless maybe you have infusions but i play too casually to really be at that point to fully comment on min maxing
blade renewal feels really useless we generate enough blades through our rotation that the only benefit to having it slotted is for distortion otherwise its channel, it dissrupts our dps too much. the only time i can see this being used is in a dungeon and you need a fairly quick refill on blades just before the boss

twin blade restoration is a weird one its not terrible but its not great. signet of ether is much better especially since it synergies with virt stocking blade and i found its much easier to survive with the singent than with twin blade

sword of decimation is in a weird situation, you either give up psychic force or signet of domination and sadly these two are too good imo to not have both. i guess if you dont care about the passive condi damage and stun you cna get rid of domination but why would you? especially if youre in the same position as me

 

anyway these are my thoughts its fun and it does its job mostly but it could really use some looking into to make it better

Edited April 13, 2022 by Emrasu.2508

[Hawken.7932]

On 3/15/2022 at 6:42 PM, medivh.4725 said:

Absolute garbage. Like a seating duck in PVE.
Keeps dying to monsters and mobs despite fully ascended gears.
Phantasmal Swordsman is ridiculously slow and not triggering alot of times. 
Projectiles cast times not fluid. No defense, lacking in mobility.
Its all flashly without substance or trait synergies. 

I would highly recommend that you try out the Condi build on Snowcrows. If played properly and geared properly, it does excellent dps and is very tough to kill because of Jagged Mind and bleed synergy.  

 

Condition Virtuoso Build | Mesmer Builds | Snow Crows

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

Anyone else not playing Virtuoso because of its horrible visual effect?

I would love to try it, but I really don't appreciate my cool looking ice-themed sylvari having an omnipresent arc of five oversized pink daggers floating above his head.

What happened to subtle effects like the Scrapper's cute little gyro? Even Untamed, whose spec effect looks like a bad case of psoriasis, doesn't have this on 24/7 but only upon entering Unleashed mode.
 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Hawken.7932]

23 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Anyone else not playing Virtuoso because of its horrible visual effect?

I would love to try it, but I really don't appreciate my cool looking ice-themed sylvari having an omnipresent arc of five oversized pink daggers floating above his head.

What happened to subtle effects like the Scrapper's cute little gyro? Even Untamed, whose spec effect looks like a bad case of psoriasis, doesn't have this on 24/7 but only upon entering Unleashed mode.
 

I am really enjoying Virtuoso, but yeah, I think those floating daggers could be toned down, visually, about 500%.  It's kind of cool at first, but after a few days it's like... yeah okay, where is the off switch.

[Malande.8502]

Why is the dagger so bad in competitive games ?

[Ombras.2853]

2 hours ago, Malande.8502 said:

Why is the dagger so bad in competitive games ?

That’s my main problem, honestly.

3 out of 3 skills that deal (maybe) damage (just a bit), no disengage, no range, nothing.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

I don't even notice the floating daggers, it's so weird to me how often people talk about them.

[Zenith.7301]

On 5/2/2022 at 6:45 PM, Ombras.2853 said:

That’s my main problem, honestly.

3 out of 3 skills that deal (maybe) damage (just a bit), no disengage, no range, nothing.

 

Perma reflect in WvW makes the spec absolutely useless. You're just a worse SB with none of the mobility and defensives. Your burst cd's are longer to boot.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Zenith.7301

[Jimbru.6014]

To me, it feels like Virtuoso is very one dimensional. If you look around the various build sites, Virt has basically one really strong DPS build (Rampager condi) with other "builds" being just variations on the theme.

[Senqu.8054]

6 hours ago, Jimbru.6014 said:

To me, it feels like Virtuoso is very one dimensional. If you look around the various build sites, Virt has basically one really strong DPS build (Rampager condi) with other "builds" being just variations on the theme.

This is basically what I think has happened over the years with all ESpecs of mesmer. Every ESpec got basically pushed to just be the ESpec instead of providing several different options. You also do not discuss builds anymore you just discuss if condi/power/Support core/chrono/mirage/virtuoso is viable and not if build XY is viable. There are no alignments anymore, just the ESpec itself as defining choice. But people still tell in the forums Mesmer is fine so no chance to get back to better days.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Please delete this thread as it would seem you devs dont even bother reading what feedbacks players give anyways. Based on the patch preview and notes it is clear that the dev team is incompetent and has no idea what they are doing or even play the game itself. 

What is the point of feedback if you guys dont even bother to READ IT. The hype that was given for this patch only ended up in serious letdown. AGAIN not surprised based on track record.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Next time they ask for feedback remember your opinion isn't worth a kitten. All that matters are the casuals enjoying it.

Red — 11/25/2021 The fascinating thing to me is how radically different feedback in locations with more hardcore players is to our actual surveys. If you were to primarily look here or on Reddit, you'd expect that Mechanist or Virtuoso were poorly received. If you look at our actual data collection (from a very large number of active beta participants, with some filtering for minimum time played), those clocked in as best and second best rated overall.

[Senqu.8054]

4 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Next time they ask for feedback remember your opinion isn't worth a kitten. All that matters are the casuals enjoying it.

Red — 11/25/2021 The fascinating thing to me is how radically different feedback in locations with more hardcore players is to our actual surveys. If you were to primarily look here or on Reddit, you'd expect that Mechanist or Virtuoso were poorly received. If you look at our actual data collection (from a very large number of active beta participants, with some filtering for minimum time played), those clocked in as best and second best rated overall.

And more important, that a specific devs enjoys it:

“Frankly, that’s why I made staff (mesmer) good. I hated using axe (mirage)”

“Kits (engi) are terrible in modern gw2” 

”My desire for Vindicator was to have a spec that could squarely fit a straight forward power dps role. […]  The designer creating it (vindi) had a strong vision for a hybride mechanic based around the alliance legend […] The initial beta feedback on it is what allowed me to request very specific changes to that mechanic”

Edit: or is doing balance changes without any knowledge about the class in general:

”I haven’t played ranger, so I’m operating based on GW2Wiki here”

Edited June 26, 2022 by Senqu.8054

[phokus.8934]

8 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Next time they ask for feedback remember your opinion isn't worth a kitten. All that matters are the casuals enjoying it.

Red — 11/25/2021 The fascinating thing to me is how radically different feedback in locations with more hardcore players is to our actual surveys. If you were to primarily look here or on Reddit, you'd expect that Mechanist or Virtuoso were poorly received. If you look at our actual data collection (from a very large number of active beta participants, with some filtering for minimum time played), those clocked in as best and second best rated overall.

The sad part is that they're equating play time to being best rated.

The shear incompetence with this new flock of employees is really shining a light on things.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, phokus.8934 said:

The sad part is that they're equating play time to being best rated.

The shear incompetence with this new flock of employees is really shining a light on things.

This also explains why Virt is so kittening basic and with lack of tactical depth. It was this dude that design it.

[Silvey.4287]

From a spvp perspective, base mesmer base traits are lacklustre as they've been gutted over the years, forcing to choose between damage or mobility or surivurability.  chrono is hard to manage and near unplayable because of set up and no unvulns. Mirage is still good and a very fun piece of design but not meta. Mesmer in general has bursts that are generally well telegraphed unlike so many other classes ( ele, willbender, ranger, harbringer etc) which is my major gripe with so many of the new specs. As for virtuoso the mechanics feel uninspired and bland the thematics are cool, I love mesmers aesthetic, if I could id want to play in every rpg game. I wont not stop playing it but how do thief's get specter or guard with willbender and we get this.

 

Weapon

Dagger is a cool weapon for mesmer, but is bad and no one is uses it as it has no utility. its projectile based and forces you to play as a weak melee at midrange range all the while applying little pressure, its outclassed by every other mesmer weapon in what it does. Dagger is also projectile based which is terrible as reflects/projectile denial are everywhere (ele, guard, ranger, necro, rev etc etc).

 

Shatters

Shatters are cool looking still one dimensional as being an addition to the class. They only work in front of you so you cant put any pressure while your running away or if you angle your character, unlike base/chrono/mirage etc so thats a hard nerf. The fact projectile denial/reflects remove our class design outright is terrible and in the current meta its hard to apply any pressure as it is as a mesmer. (then some willbender presses one skill for 6k without any setup(im salty yes))

 

Traitlines

Top traitline is good, so good I dont want to build virt any other way, not because its too strong but because the other two lines are lacklustre that I dont even consider them. Compare that to mirage GM traits and your forced to think about what kind of build your making.

 

Suggestions

• Make shatters fire in any direction
• Add utility to the dagger, perhaps make the 3 into a placeable aoe that deals damage, provides boon removal (wow an interesting way to counter the current meta and make mes relevant again!), projectile removal or reflection. id also honestly redesign the 2 on dagger it doesnt make any sense and doesnt feel good to use.
• Make the other two trait lines into viable builds that are interesting/creative, preferably with one trait somewhere that allows condi removal, maybe a trade of for aegis etc (your other choices is no dont get hit (high mobility) or inspiration).

 

p.s Also give mesmer illusions more health they die to random aoe to easily. sorry if I chatted a load of rubbish

Edited July 16, 2022 by Silvey.4287

[phokus.8934]

The biggest QoL that they can do to make shatters feel less janky is to make them instant cast but maintain the travel time.

[DarcShriek.5829]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:59 AM, Hawken.7932 said:

I would highly recommend that you try out the Condi build on Snowcrows. If played properly and geared properly, it does excellent dps and is very tough to kill because of Jagged Mind and bleed synergy.  

 

Condition Virtuoso Build | Mesmer Builds | Snow Crows

 

 

I've been running this build for a week now.  I hate it.  It's boring.

[Pie.2167]

Compared to many of the other EoD specs, Virtuoso is underwhelming in WvW/PvP

The requirement to face your target for shatters 1-3 prevents you from being able to kite effectively, and the cast times, including travel distance, are too long, especially for shatter 2 and 3.  Plus there is the line of sight requirements as well.

I would like to see Auspicious Anguish in the Chaos trait line work with shatter 4 for some additional reliable cleansing outside the Inspiration trait line.

With the Inspiration trait line you have good sustain, but the damage output is simply not high enough.  

Edited September 5, 2022 by SaltAndLight.4652