Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[babak.3654]

I've only recently returned to the game but these are my thoughts. Mesmer is probably my favourite profession which I've played on and off for 8 years in PvE and WvW. Initial impressions of virtuoso were favourable but the more time I spent with it the less I liked it. I've edited my post to present concerns more coherently:

 

1. Skill effects look fancy but contribute to visual noise
2. Bladesongs have cast time, unlike shatters. This is an issue as traits such as Blinding Dissipation synergise well with instant cast shatters, but it generally just feels bad 
3. Bladesongs and dagger skills: too many projectile based attacks. Too easily shut down by projectile hate and reflects (think WvW).
4. On some maps dagger projectiles consistently obstructed by terrain
5. Bladesongs and Heal require you to be facing the target and skill gets cancelled if you turn
6. The traits seemed unimaginative and inconsistent with other elites. No dagger trait, no psionic trait, nothing interesting that changes the way the specialisation is played
7. So many traits granting fury but fury uptime already from core traits so it feels redundant. Damage modifiers lack imagination and limit to 600 range when dagger and bladesongs are 1200 range
8. Lack of movement speed buff feels bad coming from Chronomancer
9. Psionics seemed underwhelming. Combine the two targeted AOEs (they're too similar) and give some additional defence or stealth access
10. The F4 block is bad and not a substitute for distortion access on F4. Distortion being consigned to a utility slot is a nerf to build diversity as in PvP for example blink and signet of midnight are always taken
11. I loved the changed behaviour of Sword 3 and would wish for this to be made baseline.

 

I can imagine Virtuoso being liked by players new to mesmer or who don't already play mesmer. As someone who already played chronomancer in PvE and WvW, the playstyle of virtuoso didn't feel very different from chrono. You're still generating illusions to fuel F1-F4 shatters/bladesongs but the bladesongs come with disadvantages that are not offset with enough benefits and there's no equivalent to continuum split or mirage cloak.

 

Virtuoso could be a fun specialisation but without at least some of the issues being addressed I don't see why I'd use it over chronomancer or mirage.

•  

Edited August 18, 2021 by babak.3654
Reorganised for clearer feedback

[Bobajob.7136]

I was really surprised and I am enjoying virtuoso. Yes duel wield daggers would have been a bonus but the mechanics work well for me. Good pace and good damage. Survivability has been ok on bosses I've tried so far, obviously the loss off clones makes a change of play style. No bugs so far.

 Haven't yet tried the condi build. 

👍👍

[AXLIB.8425]

currently it the spec feels better the I expected, but there are still quite a few problems.

This is mostly from pve perspective 

 

 

First, something I think is good:

• dagger skills are all really great, dagger 3 feels a bit slow with how much blade it shot out, but it is not that major and over all dagger skills are good. The spec can still be benefited with having an off hand dagger, since mesmer still suffer from not having good off hand cleave weapon, especially with dagger having great aoe, off hand skill have a great disconnect from the rest of the spec when it comes to aoe. Giving mesmer a off hand dagger would also solve the problem with mesmer being the only class not getting more then 3 weapon skills from weapon in any expansion, and letting a master of blades to use two dagger just make since aesthetically wise as well. 
• blade renewal is great for replacing the distortion we lost, A+ design. cooldown can be lowered, or better yet, see the trait suggest below.
• quiet intensity, yes, finally a good crit chance modifier on memer that is not tied to a scarce condition. the vitality to ferocity is a bit weird for pve, would be nice if it is power to ferocity, but currently vitality to ferocity is good.
• the new sword 3 is soo good, and i think that should just be put on core mesmer instead only on virtuoso 

 

Things I think bad and should be changed: 

• Rain of swords and Swords of Decimations feels too similar, I thing it would be great if rain of swords can become one of the off hand dagger skill, and you have a utility freed up, maybe you can make a movement skill, or a skill that buff you next few attack and give unblockable(if there is no other source of unblockable).
• Psychic force doesn't feels good to use, the cooldown feels too long and you don't gain that much from it.

Thousand cuts damage is low for it being an elite and 75 sec cooldown, and really hard to hit moving targets 

• quite a few trait that doesn't do anything on virtuoso or get overlapped with virtuoso:

          Deadly blade alone give you 25 stack of vun, making half of domination trait that you take useless. Deadly blade need to be replaced by something else, like blade grant you one stack of might for maybe 2 or 3 seconds, as mesmer have low access to might, or gain precision based on power 

          Illusionary inspiration currently does not work with blade, so that trait just does nothing. I hope this is just a sign that you guys will be reworking inspiration trait line to make it better for supporting and buffing others 

         Empowered Illusion seems like it is only buffing phantasm, but then again, 15 percent increase on clones wasn't that much to begin with anyway

         All the master traits are wasted on the fury part, since you will almost always have perma fury with master fencer.

the condi line of virtuoso and confusion of f2 feels really out of placed. I do not agree making a specialisation not focus on one thing, and this spec could very much be focused on the shatter and power dmg aspect of mesmer. 

• The top line with block and evading adds the much needed survivability, however Duelist's reversal and Psychic Riposte are very much not useful in pve, and since I have not tried pvp on this spec, I will not address this two trait.
• The lack of trait to buff dagger and psionic like the rest of the class is really not a good look. I think a trait to buff dagger and psionic in place of the current line would do a lot of good to this spec. Like make jagged mind to reduced psionic skill for 20 percent, and maybe give unblockable for next 1 second to address the lack of unblockable for a spec full of projectile. and a dagger trait that give increase precision and additional precision when wielding dagger (or power).
• The current Phantasmal blades is not great, but it is also the only trait option to take for power build for that additional 500 damage. It would be better or at least more fun to play with if it auto shot the current phantasmal blade (400 damage at a target) when you have 5 blades. 
• The all the blade generation trait expect bloodsong are very bad at generate blades in pve, and that one has the problem of being the condi option for a spec that perform poorly with condi. Infinite forge is just deeply flawed, it is the current signet of illusion but caped at 3 blades, so if you want to burst with power, you will be wasting time and dps to wait for infinite forge to generate 3 blades, and if not you are just wasting a grandmaster trait. the Psychic Riposte works feels underwhelming even in open world, but it is probably still the option to go for as power build just because everything else doesn't work for you.
• Mental focus is just... weird, and feels bad to even take this trait. you have a kit of 1200 range, but you need to stay within half of your range to do get benefit. I think if you want to force us to stay close, at least increase the range to 900 or 1000. 
• More weapon need to have blade tag instead of just greatsword, MH sword definitely should have it, would also be nice if some phantasm have blade tag like Phantasmal disenchanter and warden are two that should have it, swordsman is a good candidate as well.

 

All in all, I glad that virtuoso feels better then I expected, but I still hope that you guys can rework most of the trait line, since the current one is just uninspired and feels kind of lazy. I think having option to improve certain bladesong like scourge's Herald of Sorrow that make desert shroud into sandstorm shroud or holo's crystal configuration: storm that make auto during forge ranged would be good for the trait. And please consider Tseison.4659 's suggestion with the empowered bladesong, it will solve a lot of complain with bladesong being just the reskinned version of shatter 

Edited August 17, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Hawkeye.5318]

Really solid. In particular I love the "Block" line of traits, it feels really kitten unique and fun. 

 

Best of the 3 new elites, and I say that as a Necro main

[phokus.8934]

The cast times on bladesongs and only being able to shoot them in front of you feels off.  I wouldn't mind if the cast times disappeared but I'll take it if they made them castable with someone behind you.

 

And not having IP with them feels Chrono level.

[Axl.8924]

58 minutes ago, Jokubas.4265 said:

I like Virtuoso overall so far.

 

For a little context, I've been playing Chronomancer in a very specific (and from what I understand, nonstandard) way for a few years now. I use Scepter, skills like Signet of Illusions (even with its bugs), and traits like Shatter Storm, to utterly spam Clones and Shatters.

 

For me, Virtuoso is great because it's essentially an Elite Specialization built for the way I had been playing Mesmer: no deception, just churning out ammo and launching it at my enemies. I am excited to switch to it for real once the expansion comes out.

 

Here are some more specific notes:
1) I really like that Blades are retained when targets die and even outside of combat, but it does make it feel a little strange that most Blade generation doesn't work outside of combat. It really makes it feel like Blades should just passively stock up (at least to 3) naturally outside of combat. This would also make Infinite Forge feel less mandatory.

2) Overall the traits feel sort of bland and tangential to the Spec. Mental Focus feels odd when Dagger is ranged, and the beta character also started with a Greatsword, which prefers enemies further away. The Bleed traits feel odd when Bleed is almost exclusively a Pistol thing, and one of the Bleed traits affects Illusions (and other people are saying Illusion traits don't affect Blades?). I like being given the option to do something a little different, but I feel like I'm missing the option to stay well in line with the Virtuoso.

2b) Overall I'm not really excited by my trait options from any trait line for the Spec, but this was a problem I had before when trying to build my Clone and Shatter spam Chronomancer.

3) Between having to aim the Elite skill, it having a cast time, and it only lasting 3 seconds, it just feels unresponsive. I also don't like the lines at the end of the targeting graphic. I assume the direction arrow is supposed to double for implying the ability's range is further than the graphic, but the lines at the end of the graphic keep making my brain interpret that as the edge of the ability.

3) I expected to have more to say, but while confirming certain things while writing this post a lot of my concerns were alleviated. That isn't to say things are perfect and I'll certainly notice more things once I've been playing the Spec for real for an extended period, but as someone who isn't a numbers person I don't have much else to say.

 

P.S.) Just a little nitpick in the grand scheme of things, but the flavor of the Spec just feels weird. I don't know why it's called Virtuoso and I don't know why the shatters are called Bladesongs. It's just Psyblade and I don't think there's anything to be embarrassed about that; it's within the Mesmer's wheelhouse. I do seriously suggest either renaming things or adding more of a music theme to the animations and abilities.

 

I agree i was so expecting a bard spec man thats why i got so excited. I was hoping for a lute and maybe shatters become songs which buff team and debuff enemies as a replacement.

[Ronin.4501]

4 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

SPvP

 

Berserker Amulet

 

Domination, Mental Anguish

Dueling, Superiority Complex

 

5 Blade Bladesong Harmony

 

4200 damage.

 

Enough said. 

 

https://imgur.com/a/ZJ7BWHK

 

This thing is limp AF.

Yup. Tried it out in WvW.  It might be the glassiest build I've ever used.  Too easy to dodge out of all the virtuoso utility skills.  Low damage output for such a glassy class. 

[Yoci.2481]

This is like a core Mesmer except worse. It has no mobility, swiftness, nothing. It has no teleports, no reflects, its only defensive abilities are channels, its attacks are slow, do little damage and are projectiles. Yet it has no trait that interacts with projectiles. And stuff is buggy, which I can somewhat excuse because beta.

[Caid.4932]

I tend to play Mesmer as an alt when looking for something different and tend to get a bit frustrated with it in certain game modes before long. I really, really liked Virtuoso and it addresses a lot of them frustrations. Cant really comment on balance on how well it interacts with existing traits or anything.

Just found it fun. Utilities felt a lot of fun but i hate knockback and the cooldown on most was excessive. The animation for the stun break is amazing, pls make it easy to justify using.

[sapdan.2435]

 

main review starts at 1h12m

[Mik.3401]

I am extremely disappointed in the spec. To name a few problems:

 

 

- all skills are projectiles practically - slow projectiles

 

- F4 block is a joke given the number of unblockables in the game

 

- new shatters do not work if you don’t face the target

 

- no mobility (sword 3 is the only mediocre redemption) - that would be fine if we got some sort of sustain but I fail to get much benefit from the occasional aegis

 

- bleeding-reliant condi power and I think weak synergy with staff - playing condi variant felt kind of strange - maybe it is just me

 

- heal skill doesn’t work if you don’t face the target

 

- the elite skill is probably the easiest attack to evade in the game

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Mik.3401

[mortrialus.3062]

One of the main issues is how slow this thing feels with no proper movement skills.

 

Core Necromancers, Reapers, and Scourges effectively have 3840 units of blink per minute on their meta PvP build due to them being able to run both Flesh Wurm and Spectral Walk.  With Virtuoso you just have blink which ultimately comes to 2040 units of blink per second.  And these necromancer builds are eons more tanky than virtuoso and faster than virtuoso and does more damage.

Edited August 17, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[AshkyLicious.4729]

Well after been trying out this new spec it feels kind of cool. It has alot of potential and needs that Anet works on it even more.

I've only tried Virtuoso in PVE for now, gonna try WvW tomorrow.

 

I like the fact that we can stock blades outside of battle, and that we dont loose  them when our target dies. It makes us more prepared when we go into a fight. The AoE skills is nice aswell, like a breath of fresh air for mesmers.

 

I dislike the projectile mechanic, it kind of kills this e-spec for me. It doesnt really fit mesmer either. The castingtimes are ridiculously long and our skills are really slow. The skills needs to perform faster with shorter castingtimes, and be way more effective since this espec is supposed to be bursty and glasscanon. And specially since we dont have any clones left to defend ourselves with.

 

I dont like the bladesongs at all... they need an overhaul. The range for some of them are really short in my oppinion and that's not good since this class is so squishy, range is everything and helps us survive. The effects of the bladesongs should be more relevant to Virtuoso by either giving us more power and ferocity, granting us stealth and defence since we dont get any mobility with this spec and let us CC more effectively.

 

Dagger skill 1 needs to perform a little faster. It feels a bit slow for the moment.

 

Our elite skill... is a disaster?! Its too narrow and clunky. Its not even worth using! You should make the line broader and it should fallow our character whenever we turn around or run in different directions, since this elite is so easy to dodge and move away from. It should do better damage aswell.

Edited August 17, 2021 by AshkyLicious.4729

[Rory McGowen.5038]

Playing the first of the new Elites - Virtuoso - I feel like the heal is a little too slow for the level of armour. I mean, Each hit by a Champion, for instance, does X# of dmg, and by the time the heal is effected for the Virtuoso a second hit has landed and you're down. I'd shave .25 second off the heal. But otherwise, so far it is a really nicely balanced Elite. Thank you. 

[aymnad.9023]

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

So far i'm enjoying it i'm glad it has so much front burst it seems kinda low on things like mobility and heavy on dmg and range.

I also did feel a bit low on mobility when I started playing it (compared to some of the new standards). After a few rounds I swapped dagger with sword and discovered the new 3 which helps a lot. 

 

Edit : but you might already be playing with it.

Edited August 17, 2021 by aymnad.9023

[Roda.7468]

5 hours ago, DANK.5304 said:

Hi!!! I think it would be great to include a different animation for the dagger autoatack, as it feels non powerfull (I mean the hand movement, not the animation of the shoot, as I like a lot the mechanic of the autoatack and the effects) so yup, a slightly different animation for the hand movement would be awesome!

Yeah, I would really like if we had some animation variations, at least to help us count what number AA we're on to see when we'll get the flurry.  Don't have to be a combo chain, but I'd like it to feel like one.

 

4 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

It is very easy to overload on blades to the point I could have all Bladesongs on CD with F1 being an Ammo skill via Shatterstorm in Illusions.  Easy DPS and Blade generation from Dagger means plenty of room to play around with different Utilities.

I was worried about this when I saw the  cooldowns.  Kinda feels weird to me that a class built around builders and spenders would have cooldowns on basic spenders. (Though I always thought it was weird that power specs got a short cooldown spender, and the one suited for condi damage is longer.)

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not nearly far enough into toying with this build, but for now I can echo the other voices stating that I feel like I hit like a wet noodle, and I feel like I break like a dry noodle.  I have no innate active defensives, and if I take the trait ones, I'll be doing even less damage.

 

The bleed/condi options seem REALLY underwhelming. (Not enough stacks maintained to really feel an impact)  Though I do like the feel of the grandmaster.

 

The heal and bladesongs NEED to cast behind you.  Like if you must scrunch your nose at low damage, low mobility, high predictability, easily blockable/punishable attacks not forcing you to maneuver at a snail's pace to strike, then at LEAST make the blades from the heal skill miss, instead of just denying a heal be used and PUTTING IT ON A COOLDOWN.  Like, c'mon!

 

I GREATLY dislike the shotgun blast and "stand 600 units close to do damage" trait on a spec that's supposed to fill a ranged power niche that mesmer is missing.  For the shotgun blast, I'd rather see something like, idk how to describe it, a focal point on your target (or the max distance if you don't have one) where it starts wide, goes in, then goes out again, then reverses? (basically start L C R, at  your target they all hit at once, and as they pierce and hit their max distance they're arranged R C L, then reverse)  That way you're still forced to play with positioning in aoe scenarios, with the added fun of having to target the farthest enemy, or target the closest and maneuver around to get the max coverage, and you're not AGAIN FORCED TO GO MELEE IF YOU WANT TO BE OPTIMAL. PLEASE ANET.  And also it feels a bit more magical to have an unconventional trajectory like that instead of just -blam- shotgun.

 

I don't mind the projectiles, but what I DO mind is how if there was an offensive slur for ranged classes/people who play ranged classes, I'd put money on someone on the balance team knowing it.  You often make projectiles/ranged gameplay numerically weaker than melee.  You make all team buff applications melee and need constant upkeep so it compounds the issue.  And you give every profession (And some npcs) AMPLE amounts of tools to not only actively punish people for playing ranged/projectile builds, but ample amounts to ACCIDENTALLY punish people for playing them. (While going "awwee shucks, wetaliation isn't fun to pway against guysss :(" I might add.)   Like legit, what ranged class in what game hurt you anet?  I swear, we're not all here to steal your raid slot/kite you endlessly in pvp.  We just like to maybe spread out of the particle explosion in pve to see better, and have to mind a larger area of positioning in pvp.  There are more ways to force players to optimize uptime than "can I be in target's face or will I eat this PBAoE?"  I would rather this long-running naked bias against ranged gameplay be solved before you abandon the fun idea of a magical dagger thrower.  Seriously, I'm desperate I WANT to love your combat, guys 😭  I'm dying to get serious into fractals and raids, but I just can't because I don't love melee and party piles.

 

I'm seeing around a 10 fps drop when stacking my very pretty utilities, but not all the time.  I'll have to keep an eye on this.

 

The cast times, especially for the shorter cooldown abilities, seem a bit much and ruin the flow of the skills

 

Unstable bladestorm is... ehh?? uninspired? I really can't see its wowfactor outside of "lmao I'm tagging a bunch of mobs"  if I were to edit it in my way I'd have it be a placeable aoe at the start point, and have it homing in on the caster as its path so you could do some neat path manipulation with it... OR OR OOH OOH OOH! Default homing in on the caster BUT! if you were to use a bladesong on a target while it's out, it changes course and follows THEM!  That way your bladesongs have a little more interaction with what you're doing outside of being just fire and forget buttons.  Oh also female sylvari does her voiceline very late into the cast.  Like, as the storm has hit half of its range already.

 

Speaking of bladesongs. For F1, I would REALLY REALLY appreciate it if I could change targets during the cast, and have the blades still lingering waiting to get fired as they go off one-by-one, if I could have those  visually unspent blades be committed to my new target instead of my old (or dead) one instead of just poofing away uselessly.  At least the clones that are already exploding will splash the mobs around it.  Like if we're gonna have that cast time, let us at least feel good about using it. :T

 

 

Visually though, the spec is freakin' tasty.   Like I'm feeling HELLA targeted with this being my EXACT aesthetic lmao.   my only issue is really with the dagger AA.  It feels slow for a dagger (like i feel like thief has a payoff on the swing out as well as the swing back?).  It doesn't feel like either a dagger throw or particularly magical.  And the projectiles... I get that you probably wanted it to look like we were shooting out the projection of a knife wound and slapping it on our target, or like a force shockwave, but idk about anyone else, but I was hoping for a projection of a dagger to be thrown instead of like this weird misty crescent.  If I had my way,  we'd throw out a translucent projection of our equipped dagger and the hand motions would be more similar to (but of course not identical) the motions your free hand makes when wielding a staff.  Like, cast 1 would be like the throw where your character's hand starts low then they bring it up and shows the palm towards the cast.  Cast 2 would be like the sweep across the body from high to low. And for cast 3 it would be similar to that sassy point.   You'd have to mirror it and compensate for the dagger in the hands, but y'all have very skilled artists, and I think they'd be able to make it look cool. And like I said up top, I think different animations for the same spell would not only add some more organic behavior in our characters, but also help us keep the tempo without resorting to counting in our heads.

 

The traits are....  Man, they just are traits aren't they.  They are certainly squares...  that I can click on...  They're pink... They sometimes make numbers happen?   I think...    Ok, so I REALLY REALLY enjoy that y'all tried to make separate paths for condi, power, and support.  That's REALLY freakin cool.  Now ya just have to make them.. effective.  Different than core mesmer - clones + cast times. And just really pushed farther in how they change up the -feel- of the gameplay.  I'd like to see either that support line positively JUICED with supportive power, and little damage (Give me ++support -damage modifiers in this liiiiiine!!  PUUUUSH IIIIIIIT!) or this aspiration of a dedicated support virtuoso scrapped in favor of a more supportive, less powerful chronomancer niche (honestly, I'd rather see that, as I feel it fits the theme of that spec better.  Have like a strong heal option, a heal and boon option and a strong phantasm/mild boon option for melee power dps, and just have virtuoso give minor group support sprinkled around while being mostly focused on builder/spender gameplay). I want to maybe see an "on A blades stocked trigger B effect" and/or an "on X blades(ongs) spent trigger Y effect" somewhere.  Instead of a whole traitline dedicated to which damage type you want to use, maybe instead have a couple options on the "power" line be burst focused with a lot of tools for a setup and climax, but able to be synergized with conditions, while a couple on the condi side could be more sustain focused, meant to keep the rotation rolling seamlessly, but could still be synergized with a power build.  And then have like -one- big trait that goes "ok this makes this a condi/power/support build."  Though I get that's wishful thinking, and I'd settle for changes that just let us do comparable damage to other dps especs, and for y'all to throw that "YOU MUST PLAY AT THE RANGE I SAY YOU PLAY AT OR SUFFER" trait into the GD garbage where it belongs.  "But roda, 600 range isn't really melee, you're still farther than an arm's length away!"  INTO THE TRASH!  THIS DOES NOT PASS THE 21 FOOT RULE, ESPECIALLY NOT IN A UNIVERSE WHERE FIGHT OR FLIGHT DOESN'T RECALCULATE ON PAIN. IF I CAN BLINK AND THE THREAT THAT WAS APPROACHING ME AFTER I ENGAGED IT IS UPON ME, THEN I AM NOT RANGED. THROW IT.  AWAY.

 

Oh, and just rename everything to get away from the music/song theme.  It just doesn't fit and feels shoehorned in.  I like bard classes, but this isn't one.

 

Ok

 

Sorry this got long, considering it really just amounts to pure feelings brain vomit.  I think I'm gonna go test some more.  Most likely will have more informed opinions when this thing ends.  Probably not different ones.  Just refined.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Roda.7468

[SkylightMoon.1980]

Conceptually it's a great spec, but PvP/WvW wise it's pretty garbage. 

It's objectively worse than even core mesmer right now. Here are some tips on how it could improve!

 

1. Allow us to shatter while not facing the enemy.(same problem with the heal).

2. Buff the dagger or just flat out change skills. Its very confusing what they were going for with the dagger. I'm not sure where its place is. Staff is good ranged condi with defense skills, while GS is good power ranged. Dagger as a ranged weapon is worse than both. It's overrall damage is just sort of low and the 2nd and 3rd skill only really pay off if the enemy is quite close, which makes it even more confusing if its supposed to be a ranged weapon. Higher damage or utility would improve it. One idea would be to at least allow the dagger autoattack to hit even when you arn't facing them which helps a lot since mesmers have to kite quite a bit in fights. 

3. The Elite is very bad. I can see how perhaps the idea of it would be very useful in certain specific moments of team fights, like when enemies are rezzing, but it's damage is so low and the width of the skill makes it very easy to miss. Even if its damage was doubled and its width was increased, I still feel like it wouldnt be taken that much because of how easy it is to dodge. 

4. Minor point but some of the traits in inspiration don't work very well with the daggers taking the place of clones. Heal procs weren't coming from certain traits that would normally heal when a clone is summoned. 

 

I like how certain aspects of the Virtuoso have good game design in the sense that they have counter play. An example would be how the shatters arn't instant damage anymore but now enemies have a window to see the damage coming to dodge/block. While I like this design of offering counterplay, it makes the shatters just end up feeling objectively worse because damage/utility wise they are on par with the normal mechanic of having clones that shatter, except now they are easier to avoid. Basically I'm saying there is nothing we really gain from having daggers as the new mechanic, even if we're allowed to summon 5 daggers(clones) as opposed to 4. 

[apharma.3741]

7 hours ago, Fire Attunement.9835 said:

Let us know what you think about the virtuoso! What do you really like? What needs to be improved or adjusted?

 

Found a bug? Let us know in the bug thread.

Shatters/Blade mechanic

Pretty OK but F1 feels like a little too long an animation or wind up, not sure if reducing the cast time is a good idea as it can do some really high damage at 5 blades and with the right damage mods but then so can normal power mesmer. Otherwise they're pretty good. The loss of Illusionary Persona is interesting, I feel like I need to take the infinite forge trait so I can use them whenever which might not be the best thing having a trait feel mandatory.

 

Blades going up to 5 allows for shatter and clone related traits/skills to scale nicely, it's nice to have a proper heal skill that actually heals more than nothing. I can see an inspiration varient of Virtuoso having a large amount of healing and defence if they build correctly.

 

Dagger

The auto feels kinda weak but it builds up, then again it's a ranged auto so yeah, whatever it's fine. Number 2 skill is nice but I feel like the cone could be made a little narrower so it can be used at a little further range and be effective. Number 3 is slow but can do quite a lot of damage in an AoE or if someone follows it's path, not sure how I feel on it, I think it's a little too slow but I wouldn't want to see it sped up much.

 

Sword

Illusionary leap change is nice, weird but nice. The return feels shorter than illusionary return and it feels a bit clunky and almost like it doesn't work very well. I'll see and give feedback later but it's workable and gives as much as it takes.

 

Utilities

Heal is a bit weak in WvW, I know it has the projectile things but projectiles are not reliable, then again I think the 2nd blade removing 2 conditions instead of 1 would put the heal in a good spot though I think it will always be inferior to Ether Feast and Signet of Ether.
 

Psionic Force is a little overloaded, I'd love to see it lose either the might or the fury (or both), the damage down to minimal and be 40s CD. Stunbreak and knockback on a 30s-40s cool down would be nice.

 

Thousand cuts barely hits and has a cast time that makes Signet of Humility look fast, it does damage if it hits but that's a big if and with a 1s cast it's hard to hit anything that isn't downed, even then a quick side step and it's nullified easily. I would widen it considerably but otherwise looks fine.

 

The other utility skills look fine, not too much damage but not really weak, good AoE's and decent cast times. Conscrened about invuln chaining with blade renewal but see how it goes, numbers can be tweaked.

 

Traits

Honestly they all look fine but I feel like infinite forge is almost mandatory for Virtuoso in competitive, not sure if the bottom trait line is any good, I would rather Virtuoso does a roll and does it well than tried to be a hybrid spec and be kinda weird and bad. The middle trait lines are clearly aimed at PvE so I don't mind them being boring and not as good in PvP/WvW. No cool down reduction traits I noticed, that's a little weird considering many other classes got cool down reductions, perhaps these could replace the lower trait lines?

 

General

The power level feels largely OK, the skill splits OK, you can combo a lot of damage but you need to set it up. I don't find anything too horrible mechanic wise and apart from what has been mentioned. Thing is a lot of the stuff can be numbers balanced which is a good thing. I haven't checked all the trait interactions, there could be some really broken things around like some kind of celestial inpiration Virtuoso or just one that can heal a lot by using infinite forge and Signet of Ether but then I see the insane regen given to Harbinger and I think, I doubt it will be a big deal.

 

I'm a little worried about how much is crammed onto skills, nothing too egregious on Virtuoso but Harbinger is very worrying.

 

PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THESE ELITE SPECS DO STUPID AMOUNTS OF DAMAGE AND POWER CREEP THE GAME BACK UP.

[frareanselm.1925]

For me the virtuoso is the perfect dungeon mob cleaner. And the elite is great!  That being said, power chrono will keep being the king in single target dps.

[Dorkopotamis.1497]

I only play in PvP. Mesmer is my main and I've been playing them since launch (or before launch, I guess) so this feedback is coming with a lot of historical baggage.

 

Mesmer is in one of the weaker positions it has been in and this spec is no exception. Dagger is weak. The limited options in the traitline feels bloated by an undertuned condi options in bleeds. I like the option to not have shatters, but the replacement doesn't feel rewarding or distinctly different in other ways. Overall I feel disappointed in this elite spec and the overall direction of the class (in PvP).

 

While I'm here: please revert scepter nerfs in PvP. Scepter 2 CD is way too long.

[Hlord.5940]

Longbow ranger is better.

Elite skill is a discount Rapid Fire from ranger's longbow.

The "omega damage" require you to stock up 5 blades which mean more ramp up time than normal mesmer.

Sword 3 is good thou. 

 

Update.

Sword 3 doesn't seem to immobilize anymore. Mirage sword ambush give a clone and daze.

What is the point of F4? Normal F4 scale with your clone and you can attack or do stuff while you are distorted.

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Hlord.5940

[Crey.5263]

Will Signet of Illusions be updated to work with Virtuoso?

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

DAY 1 - Initial impressions after a few hours of OW PVE play:

• Lack of synergy with other trait lines, especially Illusion and Inspiration. This makes Virtuoso feel like it was duct-taped onto the Mesmer, not integrated into it.
• Damage is generally good - maybe a bit too much; however, there is a definite tradeoff of dps for survivability, so it may not be too much, although CD on dagger3 might need a slight increase.
• Cast times on Bladesongs too long.
• Bladesong F4 seems to be quite mediocre damage.
• Psychic Force is nice, but knockbacks are detrimental in group play, and also detrimental to the small radius AOE skills Virtuoso has, so it's good/bad. Also CD seems too long at 45s.
• Twin Blade Restoration heal skill cast time is waaaaaay tooooooo looooong. C'mon, get real.

 

Summary: Virtuoso is a muddle

• It doesn't feel like an elite to mesmer - it feels like a ele or thief elite got painted purple and taped onto mesmer.
• The playstyle lacks fluidity with too long cast times, and it seems that damage on skills have been upped to compensate for that. Yet, it seems it wants to be seen as a mobile spec, dodging and throwing blades. Which is it? It would be far better to reduce both cast times, CDs, and skill damage for a faster-paced style more in line with mesmer.
• It lacks sustain due to the lack of synergy w/Inspiration.

 

I'll keep playing it more (the other two bet elites don't interest me) but as of this moment, I'd go back to my Mirage if I had to choose.  

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by TheAgedGnome.7520

[Klypto.1703]

My only complaint is the heal requiring you to stand still to use it because if you are kiting out of enemy attacks it will always misfire.  

[SLOTH.5231]

Damage needs to be increased and I agree with blade ramp up time needs to be less. Wish F3 or F4 gave a stealth as well. 1200 range is good on dagger so please don't nerf this and where is our 25% or better yet 33% speed buff in the trait line somewhere it's a must please find a spot for it without making us use runes or burn a utility slot. One other thing the directional elite skill has to go make it target focused it misses way to much.