Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[rylien.3824]

For those who want to test, I offer them my research in terms of build on the Virtuoso.
(I think the traits also depend on the weapon to use, if I had used a sword the underside traits would have been preferable for Elite Specialization in my opinion, as well as Duelism + Illusion in my opinion). All in Viper stuff (Alteration), in PvP the (9) of PvE replace it with: "Sword of Decimation", and I think that "Blade Renewal" is essential to ensure the survival and the recharge of the blades ( you can teleport at the same time as the spell is loaded), teleportation is in my opinion useful to cancel the stun and ensure mobility (something that is too much lacking on the virtuoso).  

 

ENJOY ! 🧐

 

https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2021/08/18/21081805091936638.jpg

[mikansei.5742]

First impressions from a mesmer main:

• Shatters not being instant feels REAL bad.
• Dagger skill effects all look very same-y.
• Visually it's weird to not have an offhand dagger in addition to the mainhand. Especially since you can have MH dagger + offhand sword... it looks odd.
• In theory I love mesmer using melee weapons as ranged weapons... but in practice I'm not sure the 1200 range adds anything to the dagger skills except projectile travel time.
• The ground-targeted AoE damage/vuln utility and ground-targeted AoE immob utility feel redundant. These could be combined. (Rain of Swords has awesome visuals, though.)
• The AoE knockback utility just feels like greatsword 5 with twice the cooldown.
• The elite skill should leave behind a combo field, or at least a damaging field. Currently it hits like a wet noodle and doesn't look much better than one, either.

Edited August 18, 2021 by mikansei.5742

[darwins ghost.7961]

Well, the PvE players seem to like it, the competitive players, myself counted,  are very meh on the spec. The difference is not likely to be made up by splitting stats between PvE and WvW/PvP. It is the story of two specs in one, that do not translate across modes.

 

Was it designed to be the entry level PvE mesmer spec? The biggest problem for new mesmer players is learning how to get the damage out. When new players post in forums about how to play mesmer, everyone will tell them to unlock Virtuoso and throw daggers at stuff, problem solved.

 

So yeah, PvE it is good, comp play it is bad. If I could somehow get my missing Mirage dodge back, I would forget this spec even existed.

[Menaka.5092]

As usual, I only play WvW, only care about WvW, my perspective is from testing in WvW (not raiding with a group, so it's just from a "casual zerging" pov).

 

TL;DR: fun, but gimmicky as any mesmer build in WvW.

 

Our reliance on utilities makes it so that sacrificing 2 slots for the AoE Immob and Damage leaves us with just blink to reposition and no defense against conditions. From testing with Marauders, the damage is pretty low compared with the best aoe from Eles and Necros.

 

The elite is completely useless, slow cast time AND it cancels if you move after starting the cast. The damage is negligible unless you pop it directly in front of the enemy (but by that time you'll be dead).

 

None of the traits felt like a "must have". The condi build can probably work in small scale/solo roaming but haven't tested it, and we already have mirage and core mesmer for that.

 

I found F3 was way more effective than F1 against players, because it's a single burst damage instead of a trickle over time that can be easily avoided after the initial impact.

 

I loved not losing the clone charges.

 

I loved the leap on Sword 3, I hated losing the immobilize.

 

For organized groups (again, WvW) I would probably keep playing chrono or switch to a better class.

 

[Kaioh.7598]

I realize the numbers are purposely under-tuned right now, but even considering that I think that the design of this espec is not very well thought out. I'd like to preface that I am not talking about aesthetics or theme, but purely how it performs in a practical sense. 

 

Core Mesmer sustain is balanced around its passive defense with clones providing the ability to misdirect/block enemy attacks in the heat of combat, and active defense cooldowns (distortion). When you take these away, Virtuoso has nothing left to sustain itself, and provides nothing substantial in return. After playing with/against Virtuoso last night, I found that it's just free farm in competitive play at its current state.

 

I think it's particularly problematic that the new F4 are channeled. Mesmer relies on its F4 to buy time to turn around an unfavorable situation (because it needs time to ramp up its burst). Virtuoso doesn't have that luxury, so at best you're just prolonging your opponents' offensive window, with no opportunity for follow up of your own (unless you can burn another CD like stealth or blink). 

 

In order for Bladesongs to work in their current form, they need to be immune to reflects, and lose their cast times. It doesn't feel nice or rewarding to lose a whole stack of blades, because they are extremely telegraphed, and losing the unpredictable/instant nature of core shatter provides nothing in return right now. 

 

tl;dr I cannot think of a single situation where one would be better off playing Virtuoso over any other Mesmer build except for memes. 

 

And of course, this is from a PvP/WvW perspective, because PvE balance is w/e.

[Ashamir.9574]

Played in PvE

 

Mesmer is my second to least played class of all of them. I can play a decent PvE mesmer, have fun with it in WvW when I actually play it, and in raids I scream and die. So lower level of expertise here. That said, this spec is beautiful. From all 3 of them, it looked the most completed, and it was obvious that time and effort went into it. The visuals are great, both in the weapon animations, the F-skills and the utilities. Perhaps a tad too shiny even.

 

It's squishy. You're a low HP class with light armor, it's not unexpected, but especially in the HoT maps with the knockdown festival events it was a bit annoying. Would it have been better if I was more skilled? Likely. Still, some of the utilities felt very similar to each other. For the F-skills as a non-main Mesmer, the cast time didn't throw me off. What did confuse me was that the blades staid with me when out of combat. At first I thought it was a bug, not gonna lie, so it means contrary to the general mesmer playstyle. Going by what other people have said, removing the cast time and having the blades vanish once OOC might work better for this class.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Ashamir.9574

[Anyandrell.6238]

I love the virtuoso, but the health skill is waaaaaaaay too slow and low for the squishiness of this elite. It barely heals half of your health and does it so slowly that by the time it starts acting you get hit again and buh-bye.

[AzureDragon.1482]

I like the overall concept of making blades in place of clones. It makes for a nice visual spectacle. But I do find the Bladesongs are pretty clunky to use, as opposed to insta-casting normal shatters while doing other actions. Granted, I've only played PvP with it so far, but it feels like I just get interrupted all the time. Hard to tell if it's just from CC or if it's a Line of Sight thing.

 

The blade rain utility I feel needs a little more control. Perhaps a tiny tick of cripple on every other hit to just make it a little tougher to walk out of.

 

This is probably too much to suggest, but I'd like to see the Elite skill reworked quite a bit. If the intent is to keep it this multi-tick damaging line shot, it would be pretty cool to somehow have the aoe move based on where you are facing. Maybe have it be channeling skill with some stability to keep you from getting interrupted from it all the time. Not sure off the top if there's any skill comparable to that in this game. Probably the GS Auto or Scepter 3, but those are still fixed on a target.

[Itchyscott.6091]

Main feedback is it needs to be more obvious how traits currently affecting illusions behave with blades. Players shouldn't need to look further than the tooltip to know exactly what a trait does/doesn't do.

[Vova.2640]

from a strictly wvw perspective:

class might be good in roaming/small scale but has no chance to be good in gvg/large scale zerging.
it has some potential tho. especially with some of the utility skills.
F1-F2-F3 -> all projectiles = easy to reflect/block - there is simply too much projectile hate in wvw.
F4 -> really solid skill - but i feel like it is bugged as I still took dmg sometimes while using F4.
Dagger skill -> all projectiles = have no chance in wvw.
I was hopeful about dagger 3 but the skill does not seem to do dmg sometimes even when it travels thru enemies. I would say make that skill do dmg in much faster intervals.
heal skill -> horrible right now. if you have an enemy targeted and you face away you CANNOT use the heal skill -> in interrupts and goes on a 4sec CD.
Sword and decimation & rain of swords -> really solid skills. only suggestion i have is to add different color to distinguish friend and enemy skills.
psychic force -> its not bad but the CD a bit too long.
blade renewal -> Im not sure how I feel about this one. It seems strong in a 1v1 situation but outside of that the 60sec CD makes it unviable. 
elite skill -> very very  bad design currently feels very clunky and feels like it simply doesnt hit even when visually it lands. Also projectile..... enough said.

traits... idk. i only tried top top mid. only tried power set up and could be viable in 15-20-25+ kind of zerging situation...
the top grandmaster is a joke - on the tooltip it had 89 dmg in full zerker+scholar runes with 1 sec ICD..  what is the point of that if it does virtually no dmg? blade generation? then just go middle trait and get blades passively anyway in a more reliable manner.

tl;dr
Too many projectiles. Too many clunky skills.
likely to be decent roaming spec.
has little to no chance to be viable in large scale - has good dmg spike but then dmg falls down to virtually nothing after initial rotation.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i'll need arcdps working again before i say more... but overall, i feel ur just overreacting. or playing flawed builds. (while i also used sth very standard, it worked pretty great.

(marauder / scholar / standard weapons since just a quick 2 hour testing)

 

i swapped out the virtuose heal and stunbreak for mantras, that's all it needs to compete with any other used specs. as for reflects, these aren't any issue. your main dps aren't the shatters. i only projectile bomb stuff that either used reflects yet or is downed. its a lightspeed cleave. the main dps with the aoe swordrain and elite skill are no projectiles for sure

 

probs played with swords/staff it performs even better. and maybe has a better healskill, i'm by far no mesmer main.

 

like argumention with OMG REFLECTS is the reason why so many groups wipe so hard. ele and herald have a lot of reflectable thing and always been top meta. zerker warri builds delete things within blobfights and have always a reflectable weapon slot.

 

in the whole game, there is not reflect that is huge and mobile. it's like people's panic in bubbles... i deleted so many guys that had a bubble up with scrouge wells, cannot even count these.

 

and again, i doubt anyone had a proper zerg or blobfight with the new specs sofar. we tried yesterday and my alt is on one of the strongest servers currently existing. if we couldn't, unlikely anyone could get a serious testing on the board yet.

 

plus, the current numbers of reflects is even higher than normal. people realized that virtuoso and harbinger have big range bursts. but honestly, these reflects are very easy to avoid. u can even dodge out if ur fast enough, and any relfect has cooldowns.

 

the point why these ranged projectiles are better than ranger is: they are simply aoe and strayed. and not only one cheap setup for singletargetbursting...

____

  

3 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Virtuoso auto attack with dagger with berserker stats deals less damage tha ALL mesmer weapons with Viper stats. Unacceptable lol

well, i think it might be a more pdps heavy specs. it's power damage felt great, in Wvw. ik PvE has other fantasies of broken dps, which works against the phat pvE mobs.

Edited August 18, 2021 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[nthmetal.9652]

6 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

like argumention with OMG REFLECTS is the reason why so many groups wipe so hard. ele and herald have a lot of reflectable thing and always been top meta. zerker warri builds delete things within blobfights and have always a reflectable weapon slot.

That's some high level BS (and I don't mean boonstrip) there. Yes, sure do ele and and rev have those, but the things they deal their high amount of damage with are actually AoEs. Now if the new mesmer spec had damage in that area on their AoEs, we would be talking. Or reliable access to unblockable. But as far as I have seen and tested, that is not the case. So for blob fights it's gonna be a hard choice.
And warriors? In blobfights I never see berserkers being anywhere near relevant. No surprise either, given the limited utility, while needing external sustain to keep them going.
Compared to warrior DPS, Virtuoso is probably doing fine even, but at that point we can clearly stop the discussion.

I also don't doubt that it's much different in smaller scale fights, where you can bait some defense out of the enemy and then drop your heavy burst when you got all your blades stacked. Maybe it will need some tuning, but it'll probably be doing okay here - but for proper roaming, more mobility would be necessary. As it is, it sits somewhere in between, which is a bit weird. This is not what I thought would happen, when Anet announced that they are not sticking to the old rules regarding elite specs.

[dragoneater.5601]

Add a cooldown similar to entering shroud cooldown when using sword 3 on virtuoso so you dont accidentally return by hitting it twice.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

10 minutes ago, dragoneater.5601 said:

Add a cooldown similar to entering shroud cooldown when using sword 3 on virtuoso so you dont accidentally return by hitting it twice.

 

Cant tell you how many times I double pressed it because of lag last night.

[Matt H.6142]

The bottom trait line (not including the bugged Sharpening Sorrow that's removed confusion from Bladesong Sorrow) is amazing for blade generation.  I can see power builds fighting slow pve mobs might get use out of Infinite Forge, but Bloodsong does it so much better when traited into it.

I played on an asura, which needs some animation tweaks.  Blade renewal is really bad.  (I'm guessing this is recycled from ether renewal?)  The point flying cutter and  Bladesong Sorrow seem to be off, at least for the Special Forces training golem.  Bladeturn requiem is a lot smaller as well.  I know this is typical for asura, but maybe an aoe ring would help.

The white flashes seen in the reveal stream aren't apparent on my computer, so I'm happily throwing everything at my targets.

I otherwise loved it.  Took it into wvw with blink, mantra of resolve, sword of decimation and One Thousand Cuts, and found my place with them.

[itspomf.9523]

Hey all, here's some early feedback on Virtuoso after a few hours romping about in the Silverwastes (I'm primarily a PvE player, so all commentary is from that perspective).

 

Overall Feel

On a whole, Virtuoso is a fun reprise (hah) of Mesmer, offering a distinctly different and highly dynamic approach to combat that favors mid and close-quarters equally, while not being hampered at further range.  Moreover, it complements movement, positioning, and clever strafing of your targets, allowing for greater control of its skills.  In a word, it's fun, and dagger plays a key role in this.  I will absolutely be updating my existing Mesmer to make use of Virtuoso come End of Dragons.

 

Unique Mechanic:  Psionic Blades

• This is a very welcome change over existing illusion mechanics, and the visual indicator is much appreciated and almost necessary -- particularly because the "pips" on the UI are very small and difficult to see at a glance.
• However, the rotation and luminosity of the blades themselves is visually distracting, and during play was a highly visible telltale of over Virtuoso players even at appreciable distance; I can foresee this being a significant detriment in competitive play modes.
• Turns out that only Phantasm-type skills stock blades, meaning that Clone-summoning skills do not produce a stocked blade.  This feels like a major detriment to the specialization, as it cannot properly exploit other core mesmer skills and kits (notably Scepter) and is a significant limitation.

 

Bladesongs

• Overall, bladesongs feel redundant, and not clearly differentiated form core mesmer.
• The Bladesong Harmony shatter bladesong feels a bit too much like Mindwrack, as being a pure damage option.
• Likewise, Bladesong Sorrow is very underwhelming, and does not feel much better than Cry of Frustration.
• Bladesong Dissonance, in particular, feels far less impactful than Diversion, thanks to the requirement to stock all 5 blades for it to come close to the latter's effect.
• Bladesong Requiem is a bit awkward to use, being a melee-range skill, and can make it hard to distinguish what's on the battlefield.

 

Traits

• Overall, the top-most and bottom-most trait lines do not feel to provide adequate synergy with core Mesmer specializations; this leaves Virtuoso feeling forced into a role focused on critical hits and/or conditions.  Worse, further testing has found that Virtuoso cannot properly make use of main-hand Sword or Scepter, respectively, considerably limiting their options for either approach.
• The Bladeturn Refrain trait can easily be ignored by equipping an off-hand sword, thanks to Illusionary Reposte providing a built-in and more reliable block with a cooldown equal to the shortest bladesong, which can as well be more easily traited to a lower cooldown still by way of the Dueling specialization, rather than Illusions, which does not synergize well with Virtuoso.  After further testing, I've found that Clone-type skills do not appear to create stocked blades, meaning that this does not work as first anticipated, which is a shame.
• Mental Focus unfairly punishes the longer range of the dagger, and feels to have been given only 600 range to compensate for other weapon kits.
• Jagged Mind feels like a different version of Duelist's Discipline, while offering less reward for taking it.
• Both Phantasmal Blades and Sharpening Sorrow feel too heavily tied to the Dueling specialization's fury application traits, and lack differentiation.  The latter being tied exclusively to one bladesong feels unnecessarily limited in scope.
• Quiet Intensity's 10% conversion rate is higher than most other "X for Y" converter traits, and its usage of Vitality may shoehorn Virtuoso into a limited subset of equipment, thanks to having no traits to synergize from.
• Infinite Forge feels almost necessary to properly maximize the effect of bladesongs (let alone meet parity with shatters) unless a player chooses to run an illusion-focused build.  Worse, this becomes mandatory if using weapons or skills that do not feature reliable (and rapid) access to Phantasm skills, such as Torch, Scepter, or Staff.
• Bloodsong is sadly underwhelming, and while the damage boost is appreciated on an already underperforming condition, it's simply not enough to make up for the slow stock rate or the limited application of Bleeding.

 

Dagger as a Weapon

• The individual attacks themselves are good and feel impactful, but do not synergize well with other weapons, pistol in particular (sword and focus feel best-suited for its defensive traits).
• Flying Cutter in particular is a welcome attack pattern, with the flurry bonus being a welcome bit of extra damage.
• The Bladecall skill is unintuitive, as the bouncing projectiles follow your character, rather than their point of origin, so strafing round a target can frequently cause them to miss; this seems counterintuitive to a fast-paced and potentially "squishy" elite.  It also feels a bit too heavily designed toward a "rotation," with its blade stocking effect.
• Using Unstable Bladestorm against groups of foes is immensely rewarding.  Very happy with it overall.
•  

Skills

• Nearly all of Virtuoso's skills are visually overwhelming.  The amount of vibrant color on the screen can become distracting during active combat, or when two or more Virtuosos are fighting together.
• The Twin Blade Restoration healing skill looks impressive, but does not synergize well with mobile combat or Virtuoso's mid- and lowermost trait lines.  Core Mesmer's Ether Feast is more performant with only 2 blades stocked, and identical cast and recharge times, despite the loss of boons and condition cleansing.
• Sword of Decimation is not visually distinct from Rain of Swords, and should perhaps be folded into the latter despite its unique effect.
• The vulnerability application of Rain of Swords feels redundant with the Deadly Blades minor trait.
• The Thousand Cuts elite skill is difficult to land, thanks to the narrow targeting area and linear effect.  Worse, further testing has found that a critical-spec'd build can produce similar damage thanks to the piercing effect and flurry add-on of Flying Cutter, without the same limitations.

 

Update II - regarding solo play:  I've come to find that a lot of the impact of Virtuoso's skills sharply taper off outside of group play.  In fact, the ease with which skills pierce and attack nearby foes can result in accidentally pulling large groups of foes that can quickly overwhelm the player.  Kiting and strafing thus further worsen this in more congested areas.  This leaves Virtuoso feeling weirdly underequipped to counteract its own combat potential with more precision strikes, and often prompted changing to other weapons (which hampered my ability to stock blades and heal with Ether Feast or empower bladesong abilities).

Edited August 19, 2021 by fluffdragon.1523
Added remarks for solo-play experience

[Curunen.8729]

Psychic Force - needs to be on 35s cooldown maximum. Maybe even 30s. It's a nice breather and setup for F skills, but it does not justify a 45s cooldown, especially with no evade frame or any additional benefit.

 

F4 and Blade Renewal - as these are both channeled there's very little available in terms of eg securing stomps or similar apart from stealth (or more niche stuff like stab or blind from bountiful disillusionment of blinding dissipation) but virtuoso is so squishy you can't exactly tank anything during this kind of action, which leaves it very one dimensional in simply pew pewing any downed enemy.

Sure I think there is scope for some new blink stomp tricks via the new Sword 3, but this really is jumping through hoops to do something that core can do easily via distortion, mirage can do via that and dodge or ports, and chrono can do CS tricks or dropping things like gravity well to prevent res among other things.

 

In terms of condi I think there is definitely mileage in the damage output of Duelling/Illusions with deceptive evasion and shatterstorm, Maim, MoF - F2 does some nice burst condi when it hits and blade regen is really easy. But survivability looks like to be the main issue of the spec, I will see how it goes in wvw after deciding the right stats etc.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Curunen.8729

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

4 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

In terms of condi I think there is definitely mileage in the damage output of Duelling/Illusions with deceptive evasion and shatterstorm, Maim, MoF - F2 does some nice burst condi when it hits and blade regen is really easy. But survivability looks like to be the main issue of the spec, I will see how it goes in wvw after deciding the right stats etc.

On a spec apparentely more focused on power, condi is way better. Sad but true.

[decease.3215]

Daggeeneed to do more damage or some sort of cc.  Bladesong need the same.  Also since there is no clone we really need some sort of self healing....

[Curunen.8729]

1 minute ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

On a spec apparentely more focused on power, condi is way better. Sad but true.

Yeah initially I wanted to build power but given how paper the spec is, and how well bloodsong and jagged mind synergise it seems a no brainer to use tankier gear. That and I hate how the top GM trait messes up stealth...

 

I can accept if Blade Renewal stays channeled even if the blade generation is slow as kitten (faster to just dodge with DE and keep chucking blades tbh), but F4 really needs to be fire and forget - so at least we can perform other actions during it, and being a block people can counter with unblockables etc.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

49 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Yeah initially I wanted to build power but given how paper the spec is, and how well bloodsong and jagged mind synergise it seems a no brainer to use tankier gear. That and I hate how the top GM trait messes up stealth...

 

I can accept if Blade Renewal stays channeled even if the blade generation is slow as kitten (faster to just dodge with DE and keep chucking blades tbh), but F4 really needs to be fire and forget - so at least we can perform other actions during it, and being a block people can counter with unblockables etc.

Try blinding dissipation + ineptitude + f2. Core probably will get nerfed again xD

[Infusion.7149]

The spec feels like someone hated mesmer and removed all the things people complain about mesmers for: stealth , instant shatters (even if clones take time to get to the target), ranged non-projectile skills (Greatsword ranged shatter bursts) , inability to tell which is the mesmer.

All the shatters appear to be projectile based and the dagger itself as a whole. Maybe the third dagger skill isn't projectile, I'm not sure but it has a huge animation and is as slow as molasses.
The utilities are also underwhelming. You would probably run Rain of Swords in WVW only as a damage skill as it has basically the same problem as well of calamity but without the cripple.

 

If you run condi you would likely have a similar issue because in WVW staff and scepter are both projectile so it's only for people trying to roam or troll people in WVW.

For PVE from what I've seen people are getting something like 41K , but if you're playing mesmer in PVE you probably want to play StM chrono or alac mirage instead unless it's fractals.

[Zenith.7301]

Virtuoso fails as a spec for a very obvious reason:

 

A spec can't be solely appealing just because it disposes of a core flawed mechanic of a class while doubling down on other flaws the class has while offering nothing else.

 

Virtuoso as a spec virtually offers nothing over core mesmer over the main problem the mesmer has in PvE design: It has ramp up in clone generation, the clones die on target death, shatters don't redirect to your chosen target, and you can't redirect clones outside mirage axe 3. This makes mesmer a terrible aoe cleave class and hamstrings it to be a ramp up single target class, but the problem is due to nerf after nerf, most of them PvP motivated, mesmer in PvE doesn't even shine as a single target DPS spec over classes and specs that perform better in single target, have burst, have effective cleave, bring utility (which mesmer has none outside Feedback, and Moa Signet and chrono's elite well has a hideously long CD in PvE  for some ridiculous reason despite offering nothing more than CC), and have the capacity to easily switch target.

 

Mesmer phantasms only do enough competitive DPS contribution in PvE when chronophantasma is slotted, otherwise mesmer power DPS output in PvE is abysmal. After the gutting of confusion with the August 17 patch, Cry of Frustration isn't even a worthwhile shatter.

Diversion for some reason is still single target without a trait despite eating up 3 precious clones and having a sizable cooldown, while doing less CC than a revenant staff 5 or Guardian pull/Warrior CC on what's supposed to be the control/denial class.

 

Virtuoso doesn't offer anything over removing the crippling PvE drawbacks of clones, and even while allowing for better target switching, the shatters have become single target, so the already bad mesmer cleaving/aoe capabilities get worse with the spec.

 

The utility of the spec sucks in a class where the core utility traits and utility skills and elites are awful outside chronomancer's kit.

 

This means Virtuoso only functions when it functions as a high octane DPS spec, because core mesmer utility in organized PvE is nonexistent. Core mesmer provides no valuable high stack and variety of group boons like Guardian, no defensive utility like low cd stability or aegis or barrier that guardian and scourge bring, or the offensive/defensive group utility of renegades. Yet after the flurry of constant nerfs to power chrono and mirage, all mesmer DPS specs underperform thief, underperform holosmith, while doing middling DPS, on less forgiving rotations, with nonexistent utility.

 

You have absolutely demolished condition mirage with the confusion changes. Please revert them, or change Confusion to do 85-100% the damage of a bleed. Torch offhand phantasm and pistol phantasm are so bad; torch phantasm has a whopping 30 sec base cd. Why? It's condition damage application is totally undertuned to the CD, and the 0.5 sec daze is utterly worthless as an interrupt because you have to cast the phantasm and he then performs an attack before the interrupt is applied. Remove the interrupt and halve the cooldown on torch phantasm as well as the Prestige. Pistol phantasm needs to have applied bleed stacks guaranteed per volley.

 

Virtuoso sits in the same spot as mirage where it has no room for utility, so it has to do very high damage to justify bringing it. But neither mirage or virtuoso perform according to their lack of meaningful group utility in PvE. Both also have mediocre sustained cleave capacity to deal well with encounters with waves of mobs or adds.

 

The virtuoso traits and utility skills suck/are mediocre.

I'm gonna start right away with the horrenodous minor that gives vulnerability on skill use as the sole benefit. Why? Vulnerability is trivially stacked in PvE group content, it's essentially a dead trait in organized PvE due to redundancy. But these don't get any better. Redundant boons on dodge that have no PvE relevance, because the meta support classes like healbrand/renegade stack them all. A single 15% damage modifier trait, while scourge and Willbender go up to 25% on top of their secondary effects.

 

The grandmaster traits are completely useless in PvE. Generating a blade while under 3 blades on an interval and doing nothing else as a grandmaster trait is such a horribly undertuned trait. None of the traits modify the utility or weapon skills or the bladesongs.

 

The blade generation utility will never be used as a channel in PvE, and the other three utilities are essentially reskinned chronomancer wells but with worse or no utility. The elite is an anemic stationary line nuke. It was hard to think of an elite that would be even worse than Time Warp in PvE (time warp should have its cd reduced to 60 seconds in PvE, and give alacrity and apply chill as well as dispel boons every other interval). But here we are, with huge cd elites that don't merit the cd's they have at all but only have those really long cd's thanks to your PvP centric balancing of the mesmer.

 

Aesthetics

 

The daggers should be pointing up like a fan of daggers instead of flatly horizontal. Look at Wildstar Esper's Illusionary Blades, looks a lot better.

 

Bladesong 1 has a mediocre animation next to Bladesong 2 (the one that applies confusion).

 

Dagger skill 1 and 2 look too powdery and bluish. Please fix them to look sharper and more mirrorish reflective of a bladed weapon.

 

PvP centric balancing of the mesmer is strangling the class in PvE

 

Why is mesmer constantly as a class only being designed with PvP gimmicks in mind with no relevance to group PvE, and then you go in after the fact fur to player complaints and tack on some last minute half assed numbers buff solution?

 

For once I'd like to have development start the development canvas with raiding/fractals/strike in mind instead of having every single livestream constantly demonstrate that skills are designed with PvP combat in mind.

 

If you had any meaningful involvement and tracked usage statistics for fractals/raids/strikes, you'd realize mirage is the only DPS mesmer had after you overnerfed chronomancer and you just demolished mirage's performance with the supposed adjustment to confusion which turned to be a massive nerf in the vast majority of fractal/raid/strike content.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Curunen.8729]

32 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Try blinding dissipation + ineptitude + f2. Core probably will get nerfed again xD

lol I thought it was strong enough with BD and illusions but ineptitude as well... yeah gonna give that a go next.

 

So far wvw as expected. Very little gtfo options, high risk mediocre reward.

 

The condi burst is surprisingly spectacular when it happens - especially as you can prestack blades for massive torch or pistol into F2, but the moment you get focused by a few players there's barely anything apart from blink/stealth or sword 3 to get out. Which isn't always enough.

 

Edit - in comparison, mirage, even with one dodge has significantly more options for survival while still being able to deal damage. I feel that Virtuoso needs at least one pet support to do anything more than a 1v1.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Curunen.8729

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

lol I thought it was strong enough with BD and illusions but ineptitude as well... yeah gonna give that a go next.

 

So far wvw as expected. Very little gtfo options, high risk mediocre reward.

 

The condi burst is surprisingly spectacular when it happens - especially as you can prestack blades for massive torch or pistol into F2, but the moment you get focused by a few players there's barely anything apart from blink/stealth or sword 3 to get out. Which isn't always enough.

Indeed, survival is a huge issue. sw3 sometimes bugs out on terrain, so can't count on it.