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Harbinger Feedback Thread [Merged]


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Overall I found this class to be able to be very squishy or quite tanky while maintaining good dps. I think the pistol and shroud worked out quite well. Though I think that Shroud 3 or 4 should still have a fear effect like the other shrouds to mix with traits.

 

My only gripe is how boring the elixirs are.  I mean yes its nice to be able to click a button while not in shroud and have more quickness and might but honestly its not really needed. The elite is quite nice but the others are almost a waste of a click on the bar. Sadly I am saying that for the Quickness elixir as well. Between the Elite and shroud providing quickness you don't really need it. 

 

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While shroud and pistol skills are great, elixirs just feel incredibly boring and unimpactful

I can echo that. The elixirs needs to go back to the drawing board. Plus they are inferior to engineer elixirs which can be thrown.

This feedback is specifically for WvW. I have 1000s of hours in WvW, command daily and play every class, and often main necro.   Harbinger provides no unique niche in this content. It is a s

I found the visual side of the elite spec quite boring. I want a way to see on my character clearly that my blight stacks are passing certain thresholds. The elixirs are boring, from how the icons look, animations and function.

Maybe you could make the character glow a certain way when the blight stacks are going up. If there is such an indicator, i couldn't see it on my computer. It would be a huge improvement, both when playing in crowded pve, or when doing wvw as a harbinger or against a harbinger. 

Overall, the concept is interesting, but it doesn't really feel like a necromancer for me. It feels like a dev group had a bunch of half decent ideas and they mixed it up in one elite spec. I will probably play it in EoD, but unlike the new guardian elite spec, i ask myself - "why would i play this over other elite specs, even old ones?".

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--STRAIGHTFORWARD FEEDBACK--

The class will need 2 really important things that necro's are typically known for anyways.

 

 1- Consider adding fear in the shroud kit- too many useful trait moves synergize with fear, leaving this out really hinders build creation and using certain trait moves

 

2- Poison. I understand going for torment, however poison also is utilized in the death magic tree. It feels odd to only really get poison from pistol 3. Even if its short duration I feel it needs to be included to keep the class image and death magic tree relevant with poison

 

1 more thing to add and i really hate to mention this but i know the route this spec might end up going. Its shroud auto attack is extremely fast and might work too well with dhuumfire specifically in the traitline. I LOVE LOVE LOVE condi builds, however the identity might end up being a dhuumfire only build. Consider increasing cooldown of dhuumfire slightly for this class, and put in the other condis in to compensate like fear and poison. 

 

THANKS!

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2 minutes ago, Koolaid.9152 said:

1 more thing to add and i really hate to mention this but i know the route this spec might end up going. Its shroud auto attack is extremely fast and might work too well with dhuumfire specifically in the traitline. I LOVE LOVE LOVE condi builds, however the identity might end up being a dhuumfire only build. Consider increasing cooldown of dhuumfire slightly for this class, and put in the other condis in to compensate like fear and poison.

Why? Reaper Shroud AA is super quick and there's no CD for Dhuumfire there? Why would you want us hindered in any way? We already aren't brought for DPS roles in content, do you want that trend to continue?

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7 minutes ago, Reknarok.7582 said:

Why? Reaper Shroud AA is super quick and there's no CD for Dhuumfire there? Why would you want us hindered in any way? We already aren't brought for DPS roles in content, do you want that trend to continue?

I agree with you. This is the spec where we are giving up a huge health pool to be able to have big damage numbers. For Dhummfire specifically we need to stay in shroud sacrificing future (LF) sustain and accumulating blight in order to autoattack. I'm pretty sure this is the intended effect and that the team behind Harbi have balanced it accordingly, taking this trait into account for its design.

 

While I'm at it, my feedback is pretty good, except for the elixirs. They are a bit lackluster and feel less useful than the Engi ones. Very fun spec for PvP and PvE (not much of a WvWer) thanks to the mobility and DPS burst, but also because it has pushed me to play other very fun roles that I'm not used to in my Necro. Gratz!

Edited by Uete.3805
Edited to include feedback on Harbinger
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5 minutes ago, Koolaid.9152 said:

1 more thing to add and i really hate to mention this but i know the route this spec might end up going. Its shroud auto attack is extremely fast and might work too well with dhuumfire specifically in the traitline. I LOVE LOVE LOVE condi builds, however the identity might end up being a dhuumfire only build. Consider increasing cooldown of dhuumfire slightly for this class, and put in the other condis in to compensate like fear and poison. 

 

 The duration has already been lowered when using the spec? It has a base of 1s of burning.  You can get pretty much the same or more stacks from dhuumfire using reaper.

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Feedback, Take 2really long!)

Posted my original thoughts about 5 or 6 pages ago... Had a chance to play with it some more (still all PvE) with different stat sets, runes and loadouts.  I've also read and thought about all the posts that have been added to this thread.

So here's some more thoughts on the basics and some suggestions.

 

Condi vs. Power

The Pistol just screams "condi build" with all of the Torment.  When I tried power builds, it felt "meh" and I switched to Axe which felt like it put up higher numbers.  Both builds are viable though.  The condi trait line feels like the better/more advantageous line and I think Harbinger does better as a condi build.

 

Offence vs. Defence and Shroud

Blight at low levels (1-10) is basically just a nuisance.  You don't get a lot of bang for the hit your life force and health takes.  At high levels (20-25) you can feel the difference in your hits, but your survivability also plummets.

I found the best strategy was to load up on either Condi or Power and then Vitality and Toughness.  For a Power build, Wanderer's seemed to work really well and for Condi Trailblazer's was nice.  If you avoid using Shroud and picking up Blight, you can carry a couple of damaging conditions and not even realize it!  (I was fighting Destroyers and a couple stacks of Burning, but my health stayed at max!)  This was without Blood line or Dolyak runes or Parasitic Contagion which would make survivability even better.

I've seen a number of people suggest that Shroud is best used as a get-in, get-out device to use one or two of it's skills at a time.  I tend to agree with this.  OR, you have to go all-in and build up 25 stacks of Blight and hope you can kill things through the big hits before they kill you.  I had success with both, but not using Shroud at all is the easiest.  (But also more boring and then why not just play Core?!)

 

Elixirs

As many have said, the elixirs are lame.  It feels like somebody said "Necros have a stereotype of being bad at support, so how can we fix that?  Oh! Let's give them a boon share option."  If you're not into doing Boon Share though... lame, lame, lame.  There are so many better options in the core skills.  Much room for improvement.

 

Traits

The Major Adept traits feel like you're forced to choose condi or power or do boon share (with no benefit whatsoever from Blight) which doesn't seem fair so just why?  The Master traits are okay, although if you're running a Power build, it's another tick in the "use Axe, not pistol" column.  The Grandmaster traits are just weird...  Almost everything about Harbinger says "ranged", but then Cascading Corruption and Doom Approaches both pulse an aura around you to harm foes that... should be at range?  Deathly Haste seems like the clear winner here regardless of build.  Room for improvement.

 

Blight

The risk/reward mechanic is fine.  But it's annoying that all you can do is apply it and then wait for ticks to disappear.  It would be better if it was a little more active.  Much room for improvement.

 

Suggestions

Blight - As others have said, the increased strike/condi damage should be baseline and not selected from Major Adept traits.  Maybe tone it down a little by giving 2.5% health dip up to a max of 20 stacks instead of the 2% up to 25.  Health penalty would remain the same, but the max damage would be mitigated (which is fair since you're getting both bonuses now).  This would also free up the traits for something more interesting like "Living Dangerously - increase your maximum Blight stacks by 5".  Again, this just makes the mechanic more interactive (especially if you take some of the suggestions below).

 

Elixirs - It messes with the Boon-sharing build idea, but changing the elixirs to "do things" other than just apply boons would be a change for the better.  For example, the stun-break elixir could function like the Elementalist's Mist Form, temporarily turning you into a mini-plague cloud.  The condi-conversion elixir could be modified to convert all condis into Blight (up to max stack of Blight).  This could potentially clear 10 stacks of Bleeding, Cripple, 5 stacks of Confusion, some Vulnerability and Burning all in one go, but at the cost of taking on a lot of Blight.  Not too different from the current, but more of the interactive risk/reward play.  Another elixir might give you "Night Sight", revealing all players within a 900 range to you for a base 3 seconds + 1 additional second per 3 (or 4) stacks of Blight.  Again, more risk-reward rather than a straight up "apply boons".  Finally, the Heal (at the very least) should be changed to consume all your Blight and do a base heal + bonus heal that scales with the Blight consumed.  There's just so much more that could be done with the elixirs... it seems a lost opportunity.

 

Pistol - I'm mostly okay with Pistol.  Maybe bump up the Power coefficient a little so Power builds aren't tempted to ditch it for Axe.  Changing Weeping Shot to apply Bleeding instead of Torment would also be nice for the variety.  (Plus... "weeping", as in drops of blood!)

 

Traits - I've already suggested a change for the Major Adept.  If the Blight damage boost is made baseline, then there would be more room for mixing-and-matching in the traits.  Changing the maximum stacks of Blight might be a possible Grandmaster Trait if some of the other suggestions to scale things to Blight are used.  If not, probably just an Adept.  Other possibilities for traits are:

- Manifest Blight (Grandmaster) when you reach ## stacks of Blight (15?) coalesce a minion from the cloud of Blight that surrounds you.  This minion attacks the nearest foe by throwing a poison dart (minor strike damage + 1 tick Poison for 2 sec).  Create another minion every ## (10?  15?) seconds you keep Blight over the threshold, to a maximum of 3 minions.

- Neutralizing Blight (Grandmaster, maybe Master?)  When you enter Shroud, convert a number of damaging condition stacks into boons equal to the number of stacks of Blight that you currently have.  (e.g. If you have 10 stacks of Poison and 6 stacks of Blight, upon entering Shroud you'd have 4 Poison and 6 Regen.)  If Master level, maybe == to 1/2 your Blight stacks.

- Deathly Bullets (Adept) You coat your bullets with an alchemical mixture that enhances their accuracy.  Pistol range increased to 1200.  (This would give Necro an alternative to Staff for long range and give Pistol an edge over Axe.)

- Blighted Bullets (Adept, maybe Master?) As long as you have at least 1 stack of Blight, your bullets carry the contagion to others.  All pistol skills add 1 stack of Poison for 2 seconds.  If you have no Blight, this trait does nothing.

 

To summarize, I like Harbinger more the more I play it.  However, there's just something about the Blight mechanic and elixirs that feels "off".  It feels like it was quickly thrown together with a few good ideas, but a lazy (or short deadline?) implementation that leaves it lacking.  If left "as is" for release, I'll probably play it occasionally as a change of pace.  If my ideas (even some of them) are used (as-is or just for inspiration), it could replace Reaper as my main.

I really think that Harbinger could shine if Blight was made more interactive -- affecting more skills, more options to add/remove it.  Give people more decisions about "what is more important -- the risk/avoidance or the reward?"

Make Blight the centerpiece of the spec, not just an add-on or afterthought.  Go all-in on it!

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It hasn't been lowered for harbinger. It's same baseline as reaper. Also the auto attack of harbinger seems to be more than double the speed of the auto attack chain of reaper. I believe you are missing the point entirely. 

Also, do keep in mind a nerf to one thing doesn't mean you cant buff something else. My solution is quite simple actually.

 

Add poison and add fear... can even increase base health from the traitline. However, the direction that the only viable option for this class is to run dhuumfire because it seems to proc it double speed of a reaper doesn't seem like a good viewpoint. I'd rather it get massively buffed in every other direction. 

 

Also, baseline is 3 seconds my guy. 

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7 minutes ago, Koolaid.9152 said:

It hasn't been lowered for harbinger. It's same baseline as reaper. Also the auto attack of harbinger seems to be more than double the speed of the auto attack chain of reaper. I believe you are missing the point entirely. 

Also, do keep in mind a nerf to one thing doesn't mean you cant buff something else. My solution is quite simple actually.

 

Add poison and add fear... can even increase base health from the traitline. However, the direction that the only viable option for this class is to run dhuumfire because it seems to proc it double speed of a reaper doesn't seem like a good viewpoint. I'd rather it get massively buffed in every other direction. 

 

Also, baseline is 3 seconds my guy. 

I was hoping Harbinger would interact more with Poison then Torment, sadly this isn't the case. Harbinger should have a Fear baseline as we have 3 traits that interact directly with Fear which will be unusable unless you take staff at the current moment, this shouldn't be considered a buff. Base health is increased from the traitline by 360 Vitality. Dhuumfire duration for Harbinger baseline is 1 1/4 seconds.

 

It's like you haven't even logged onto a beta toon.

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You seem to have split Dhuumfire for the Harbinger and made it 1s duration, but the tooltip doesn't say so. I prefer a shorter duration over an ICD every day, but this feels Very low. Maybe 1.5s base?

 

Please increase the Tainted Bolts aoe to 180. At its current radius, you are very unlikely to hit more than one target, even in WvW, and given its short range and the risk you have to take to put yourself there with ticking Blight, I feel the payoff should be bigger. I love the gatling-gun feel of Tainted Bolts with permanent Quickness and Dhuumfire on, but the damage it all deals is just... really low. 

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The pistol skills kinda suck really, thought they might have had a tad more condition damage (thought pistol was pretty meh) and the elixirs are boring to me.

But once in shroud the skills are ok just bearable and workable, i don't really like Harbringer as it is atm, who knows it may grow on me when expansion does come out 😂  😋

 

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I think the spec is a lot of fun. Here are some brief thoughts for what they are worth:

 

Good:

- Pistol skills are fun

- Shroud skills are fun

- The mobility feels great. Makes the class feel nimble and responsive. Combining the shroud mobility skills with spectral walk and/or worm sets up some interesting plays.

- Some great combos can be created with shroud 3, 4, and 5. In particular popping shroud 5, then getting out of shroud and comboing the effect of shroud 5 with another skill (e.g axe 2 or utility skill like signet of locusts against multiple enemies)

 

Bad:

- Elixers are boring

- The traits seem too focused on either a power or condi variant with similar play styles, or a boon share build.

 

Elixir Suggestions:

- As others have mentioned, the elixirs need to 'do something' not give boons

- I think the elite giving all boons is cool, but I think that it should be the only elixir to give boons

- One cool elixir is to give a few seconds of stealth. This would be a great skill when roaming in a small group with the elixir share trait. and as a great disengage skill in wvw roaming and/or pvp.

 

Traits suggestion:

- Have a trait line that improves the mobility and augments the shroud skills

 

 

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I dont know who came up with those potions, but it has to be a "this sounded better in my head" decision. Harbinger doesnt even look like a thrid generation spec, apart from wanting to do three jobs. There is nothing fancy about the rotation, no changing skills, no combinations.

To put it in other words:
Holo found a smith, weaver merges elements, Scourge got his shroud skills without going into a new form, and so on.
The Harbinger shroud is the base necro shroud with blight attached to it.

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First of all, while not expecting harbinger, the theme has grown on me already and I'm on board!

A few suggestions or general feedback:
1. Visuals: Overall I like the effects a lot. However, I would like the blight visual effect reduced. While I enjoy the visual for low blight stacks, when I sit at 25 stacks as an asura, I can barely see my own character.
 

2. Elixirs: I understand these things are hard to balance, so giving us stat buttons is understandable, I hope they do get another layer of depth added in the future. Most of the suggestions I have seen overload the kit a bit in my opinion, so I really wouldn't know how to solve this. The imo best suggestion I have seen would be to have elixirs be accesible in shroud but 'flip' to tossing skills.

3. Pistol: The choice for pistol is a bit odd. For 900 range necro already has a condi and a power option. 1200 range wouldve made it the 'sniper' option, but then a rifle or dual pistol couldve worked better perhaps. If you wanted the harbinger to go glass cannon melee, perhaps hammer wouldve been a better choice? (sidenote: please give us hammer next expac so I can finally use sharur).
The pistol does run into the necro offhand issue: none of them are actually that nice to use. Reaper has greatsword and scourge gets torch, so they never truly had to deal with this. (maybe an elixir offhand to toss aoe elixirs?).

4. Shroud: My one issue with the shroud is no stun break while your real health is still at risk. Personally I would be using the elixir of ambition right before going into harbinger shroud to partially solve this with stability. I also understand that mobility is something that lets us avoid certain cc's, but nothing like a targeted stun. Which brings me to my next point:

5. Traits: Middle line: I love that you wanted to give the boonsupport option to us necros, and the middle line seems fine to me. (I read some people wanted the quickness uptime to be a more active thing, which i understand, but it's not an issue for me). About throwing elixirs for the boons, I disagree. With a tanky build and our life force flowing into that healthbar to sustain us, a boonsupport could stay ranged and throw all boons on their allies without risking themselves. This also means they could miss their boons in case their allies blink or dash. 
Bottom line: The condi line is decent for me too. The only gripe I have, is that the GM forces us to go melee, which does not make much sense with the rest of the kit. The shroud 2 shotgun is a nice reward for being more risky in melee, but pulsing condi in 180 range doesn't feel very good imo.
It's very much like 'we have desert shroud at home', but unlike scourge you can't use your aoe pulses through a sand shade.

Top line: This is just my personal opinion, but I think it should be replaced. We have a decent power option in the reaper spec and I think another traitline that lets harbinger be slightly less glassy or a bit more ranged would be a welcome option. Perhaps letting our shroud 3 or 4 stunbreak, or blight reducing your health by a lower percentage, or a condi GM trait that does less damage than the 180 range pulsing one but lets you play a ranged harbinger as that gunslinger theme (I'm no expert, but seeing the pulses around my character while not standing next to an enemy in open world or world bosses feels bad, because it just reminds me I'm missing out on damage).

Overall, I'm interested to see how the spec ends up and will keep an eye on this thread for other people's ideas!

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2 hours ago, Koolaid.9152 said:

--STRAIGHTFORWARD FEEDBACK--

The class will need 2 really important things that necro's are typically known for anyways.

 

 1- Consider adding fear in the shroud kit- too many useful trait moves synergize with fear, leaving this out really hinders build creation and using certain trait moves

 

2- Poison. I understand going for torment, however poison also is utilized in the death magic tree. It feels odd to only really get poison from pistol 3. Even if its short duration I feel it needs to be included to keep the class image and death magic tree relevant with poison

 

1 more thing to add and i really hate to mention this but i know the route this spec might end up going. Its shroud auto attack is extremely fast and might work too well with dhuumfire specifically in the traitline. I LOVE LOVE LOVE condi builds, however the identity might end up being a dhuumfire only build. Consider increasing cooldown of dhuumfire slightly for this class, and put in the other condis in to compensate like fear and poison. 

 

THANKS!

Exactly we already have torment, give us poison, necrotic poison! POISON POISON! 

Edited by Zuldari.3940
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Going to do my best to leave a thorough breakdown of my thoughts on this spec.

Aesthetics

Spoiler

Overall I can enjoy the plague doctor/dark alchemist and cultist mashup the spec has going. I particularly like the visual effect of blight as it's very reminiscent of the miasma effect of Shiro's plague in Factions. The ritual circle/claw effect of entering shroud and on shroud skill 5 are amazing if not feeling 100% on theme. The pistol's visuals are very necro branded and nice but the sound effects being a standard pistol are very flat, definitely need some more magical sounds to it in the same vein as the mesmer's pistol. And the Elixirs need a lot of work, the skill icons have got to go, just minor color swaps won't cut it and can be a real detriment to colorblind players. I think the Elixirs could gain a lot from better sound effects as well, take some inspiration from the Witcher here and give us some flesh contorting sounds to reflect the brutal nature of these particular elixirs. 

Dark Disciple Mechanics

Spoiler

The idea of a more high risk/high reward necro is an interesting one but I'm not sure it will ever really work like the devs want. Ironically in it's current state the passive health regen turns the Harbinger into one of the most sustainable iterations of tanky necro ever. The passive life force to hit point feature is very strong, but Harbinger really does need this feature to work at all. I'm not sure if there's a good solution for this, as everything Harbinger is trying to do is more or less actively clashing with core necro design. My only suggestion for this might be to put the regeneration on an F2 to make it a more active feature. 

Blight

Spoiler

As it stand blight feels like an afterthought thrown on to the spec, it needs to be fleshed out a LOT. To start as others have said giving it a visual indicator on the health orb like an opposite effect to Barrier would really help quickly communicate it's effects. 

Next, Blight needs to be really baked into the spec as a whole, it needs to be like the Holosmith's Heat or the Renegade's Kalla's Fervor. The Harbinger should be able to manipulate Blight in myriad ways not just have to suffer it in order to use shroud or its elixirs. Things like being able to quickly drop blight if need be, extend it's duration, possibly even inflict it on foes for short durations.

Harbinger Shroud

Spoiler

The shroud skills are overall quite nice, but really it just feels like a stronger and more mobile basic shroud. It also feels very odd to not have Fear on any of the shroud skills, personally I think replacing the daze on skill 4 wouldn't break anything. 

Also given the nature of Harbinger and it not using life force as a hit point pool I see no reason to disable the utility skill bar. If Harbinger's are going to be asked to give up the usual necro defensive tool they shouldn't have to suffer the same penalties as core necromancers.

On a whole I think the shroud skills could benefit from ramping up in effectiveness based on blight, make sticking in the shroud for more than 1-2 seconds worthwhile.

The Pistol

Spoiler

The pistol skills are overall fine but they feel kind of redundant next to the necro's other 900 range main hand options. It also feels eerily similar to the engineer's pistol. As it currently stands it's much more condition leaning than power, and while number tweaking can fix that I would like some skill redesigns with it to set it apart from other pistols. I would like to see a skill that's like a "kill shot" that scales off of blight, a 1s animation with a massive hit + cc. 

Elixirs

Spoiler

The Elixirs need a full redesign, one that goes hand in hand with expanding the uses of blight. Instead of just variations of "gain boons and blight" they need to be more dynamic and interesting. 

Some ideas off the top of my head

*The heal elixir is a blight version of consume conditions, drop all of your blight for increased healing or life force gain

*The stun break elixir could grant you stealth or mist form

*The condition removal elixir could convert conditions into blight

*An elixir that would make your blight contagious, inflicting it on enemies either in AoE or as a result of your attacks. 

The Traits

Spoiler

The traits, like the Elixirs need lots of redesigns as most of them are extremely dull or are simply different flavors of the same thing.

To start both of the "corruption" traits from the first column should be merged and made a minor trait as blight should be more of a core aspect of the spec. Similarly the Grandmasters could be trimmed down into a single "pulse aoe while in shroud" effect. 

As for new trait ideas to fill the gaps, some quick ideas

*Using elixirs grants vigor and life force

*Gain pulsing stability and/or protection when above a certain number of blight stacks.

*Grant boons (regen? might? quickness?) in AoE when gaining blight stacks

*On being reduced to 0hp lose all blight stacks and instantly regain all health lost to those stacks instead of entering downed state.

To summarize, I like the feel of this spec but it has a LONG way to go in the design department yet. I'm hoping this feedback can help get it there.

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11 pages of comments on this thread versus... 6.. on the others?

Coupled with an arena filled to the brim in the Mists at all times with at least 4 harbingers is a clear sign that necro is overperforming, imo. 

And it won't take long for people to find builds that make this new elite spec seem like it's cheat mode.

I like the fact that it seems more single target oriented but the self-sustain is pretty insane right now. 

That being said I think this is pretty balance and I don't want to cry about it being insane right now because it's definitely something that will take getting used to. I think it's just that the other two elites revealed at the moment have such a lack of identity and synergy with their general core professions that this spec SEEMS overpowered right now in comparison. 

I think of all the specs I've seen so far, despite this having the weakest presentation during the live stream and on paper seeming like it had the weakest ideas, utilities and traits, is by far the best thought out. But that could be a symptom of necro just being stacked in general.

It's only been two days and those more active in the community may find extremely fun builds to play for the other elites, but unlike Harbinger I think the options for the other elites will consist of far less choices. 

If I had one complaint about harbinger it would be the fact that I really don't see the incentive of running a power focused build on this spec. It feels like it will ultimately wind up being a condi/support spec similar to scourge. Which is fine because the playstyle is different enough and necro in general has always felt like it was meant to focus on condition damage, but I would say rework the traits and let it specialize in things it's good at or improve the power traits to make the trade off from condition damage feel worth it. 

Not every spec has to be able to fill every role, and I think that's something the team is really missing this time around with the other two specs I've seen. Giving every spec the ability to do something other than what it's meant for and not really doing any of those well enough to make it worth the investment. 

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-Blight feels like it might not be that big of a debuff. Missing 50% of your base HP isn't much of a problem on PvE since necromancer has access to some great sustainability options. 
-Keeping this in mind, the elite elixir feels overpowered, the only penalty to 5 seconds of everything is about 20% of your HP being missing. I think the elixir of ambition needs an additional penalty or something to make it more of a risk/reward ability.
-The two elixirs which provide resistance and resolution are underwhelming.
 

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Idek if I posted before but mostly WvW perspective

 

Elixirs

Boring and undertuned, all of them

Heal one is useless, I dont see why anyone would ever take it, maybe make it consume blight?

Stunbreak one needs to do more

Condi Clear one does not need 40sec CD, compare to elixir C or contemplation of purity 

Fury/Might one needs to do something at all

Quickness one I can accept is a PvE one mainly

Elite duration is a bit short compared to CD, would prefer to see the cd going down

 

Harbinger Shroud

One of the mobility skills probably need to go, I would suggest the 3 one

2 is a little awkward when targets run through you but nothing too bad

Either shroud 2 or 1 could imo become melee 

 

Felt very fun to play, and the power level felt somewhat fine

 

As for the traits

 

Adept ones are mostly fine, though Vile Vials could probably be deleted (and the cdr moved to the elixir share)

Master are a bit bland except for the elixir share one, dark gunslinger could get to have at least some amount of the expertise left in WvW maybe?

1 stack for 2.5 sec is underwhelming for the stab one

Grandmaster ones are fine

 

Pistol overall feels good, no complaints even if pistol was very far from my first choice

 

Feels strong both in small groups and solo, bit reliant on projectiles and a bit less melee than I would like though

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Can we please get rid of torment for this new elite. everything about it screams poison and toxin, even the traits , Necrotic poison, Necrosis, could be the corruption. Torment is already a thing, and HB is way different from necro scourge and reaper. Torment just dont fit the theme going on.

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I played Harbinger more to see if my opinion of the class would change which it kind of did. Aside from PVE and fighting low rank/skilled players (might as well be fighting mobs), Harbinger doesn't feel rewarding to play. By this I mean I see no reason to pick it up over core or the other especs.

 

Core necro is versatile, super tanky/no issue with self-sustain, generally performs better than its especs in 1v1 scenarios.

Reaper can be burstier than necro (especially when built for power) and typically out performs Core in 1vX scenarios.

Scourge offers AoE barrier support, constant boon conversion, can now outperform Core in condi damage in PVE thanks to the changes to torment.

 

What does Harbinger bring? Harbinger only brings two unique things combat-wise to necro 1) damage boosting through blight to make the class inherently more damaging than the other classes and 2) contributing to the obnoxious boon meta Anet seems to be obsessed with. 

The first scenario only works in PVE/low levelled combat. In any other scenario, you have to invest into vitality and other defenses to ensure that you don't get insta-popped. In this case, Harbinger can't achieve damage or sustain that is noticeably better than the other necro options.

In the second scenario, I've basically experienced what everyone else has. There is zero reason to pick up Harbinger as it doesn't outperform or offer anything unique when compared to other boon spam options. Harbinger gimps itself by constantly lowering its max health to pop elixirs which just makes it an unreliable boon spam option that needs to be babysat. Even after babysitting the class, they can't out spam the other classes and no amount of babysitting is gonna stop them from insta-dying because of an unlucky crit. No point in recruiting a rally bot. 

 

In PVP and WVW against skilled players and groups, Harbinger just feels meh. Its a jack-of-all-trades like core, but with less defense/sustain and has to jump through more hoops to achieve the same results. My main issue with Harbinger isn't that it's too weak or too strong in terms of damage or that its too squishy or has too much health regen, its more that there's zero reason to pick it over core or the other especs. There isn't any noticeable payoff for juggling blight stacks outside of PVE and the class doesn't appear to have a particular strong point in combat (refer to my earlier points with core and the especs). The class has 0 distinct identity in combat which makes it versatile but also incredibly mediocre in terms of performance. If Anet's goal was to introduce another jack-of-all-trades options aside from core, then I guess yay? Mission accomplished? But then again, why would I pay to play a class that's just core with more hoops to jump through?

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After playing in pve for a few hours, I found the class really fun and interesting. I agree that elixirs could be more flashy; necros are used to fairly long animations and effect fields, but I find myself wanting more.... Double pistols seems so much more... In vogue with the trope. I'd like to be able to do that, though I realize that it opens a can of worms in regards to other classes. 

I love shroud, though. It has tremendous skills that were a delight to see. 

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