Harbinger Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Lightning Xv.8705]

Just quote my self from a different thread because i have zero faith in this espec being turned around into something actually interesting enough to unlock.

Quote

I see zero reason to use this spec at all honestly and its really disappointing. Blight is a double  nerf because it reduces your max HP which also reduces your max shroud at the same time; while shroud is draining to heal you when you are missing health and the effect lasts way to kitten long for a damage boost other classes get in passive traits without committing suddoku . The elixir utilities are a joke...large amounts of blight for a trivial effect excluding the elite.  Necro gets yet again another 900 range main hand yaaay /s bonus points for attacks now being projectile so gl with that in pvp modes. The 4 and 5 in shroud have cc on them so they will do 0.0000001 damage in wvw and spvp. The 2 skill is a scatter shot and we saw how well that went down on renegade yet anet made another skill just like it though I don't see the thing getting reworked like seven shot did.

 

Why make a uber glass necro it doesn't have the base line utilities for survival like other classes have and the elite spec does nothing special to help mitigate incoming damage. I see this thing living in trailblazer gear with torment runes just to not get insta gibbed.

 

Almost forgot the lack of fear for interaction with those traits....

 

I feel like the utilities on scourge and harbinger are swapped around the wrong way.

 

overall rating-meh

 

Why friggin pistol. We already got mid ranged weapons. Why not sword/sword mace/mace or either of the two with a shield??? So we can have a different play style also necro needs a dual weapon spec because its off hands kinda suck. We could have had a longbow dps spec( because staff isn't a dps weapon).

[SAMWEIS.4601]

for PVE: the question is: what you want with this spec? 

we have the reaper he is tanky and can do good power dps ... and very good bleeding dps if the situatuion fits well (mostly not)

the scourge is very good for condi dps with a little bit of support or for semi good healing. this spec maybe should be more on the supportive site.

and harbinger ? whats left? very good condi dps -> check (but we have a scourge), but he will also have good power dps (reaper  should be the better power dps) and be a supporter . thats not that smart. if you go the current way with the harbinger you can only choose one trait option for you build. the others are useless.

 

maybe the scourge sould be more on hte support site, reaper more on the tanky site and harbinger on the squishy dps site (problem is you have no good power weapon). 

the result: the harbinger has a identity crisis and has to be more unique

Edited September 14, 2021 by SAMWEIS.4601

[Asum.4960]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:09 PM, SAMWEIS.4601 said:

for PVE: the question is: what you want with this spec? 

we have the reaper he is tanky and can do good power dps ... and very good bleeding dps if the situatuion fits well (mostly not)

the scourge is very good for condi dps with a little bit of support or for semi good healing. this spec maybe should be more on the supportive site.

and harbinger ? whats left? very good condi dps -> check (but we have a scourge), but he will also have good power dps (reaper  should be the better power dps) and be a supporter . thats not that smart. if you go the current way with the harbinger you can only choose one trait option for you build. the others are useless.

 

maybe the scourge sould be more on hte support site, reaper more on the tanky site and harbinger on the squishy dps site (problem is you have no good power weapon). 

the result: the harbinger has a identity crisis and has to be more unique

I personally think it's okay to, or even desirable or at the very least eventually unavoidable, to have overlap. 

 

If a player likes Necromancer as an overarching theme and enjoys playing for example DPS, I don't see anything wrong with being able to choose between multiple sub-themes and different playstyles to achieve that goal within that profession. 

 

The only problem I see with Harbinger in that regard is that both losing Shroud and halving it's HP (while not gaining Barrier or much to non active or passive damage mitigation) put's in into a very awkward spot of either having to have way more DPS than Reaper or Scourge (and other professions), largely invalidating them as DPS options (and at the current numbers powercreeping the game DPS wise), or it ends up being in the same ballpark of DPS after adjustments with just a slight DPS increase, in which case it will be useless to run for 99.9% of players, for whom the comparable but much, much more tanky/less prone to unfun random oneshot options of Reaper and Scourge (or other professions) will just be much more comfortable to run, and possible even higher DPS in real case scenarios due to higher DPS uptime. 

 

In short, Harbinger doesn't do anything unique like a Group damage modifier or otherwise unavailable support aspect all while sacrificing too much (~90% of the professions defense, as well as being almost entirely projectile based) for simply just DPS, which will either be too high and invalidate all other options, or too low which would render the whole spec useless. 

 

The prospect of them gutting Reaper and Scourge as available options, relegating them to only extreme niche use cases (such as the niche Support Scourge), just to make Harbinger stand out as DPS and being a must pick for that role on Necro is probably the worst case scenario for me. 

 

Imo they should both normalize Harbinger Damage as well as it's sacrifices (not both losing Shroud and half HP, or at least giving it more passive and active damage mitigation at least on the level of Ele) so it can function as higher skill and DPS option without being pushed into this complete extreme of abysmal defense and having to have ludicrous Damage, while maybe also adding some unique group buff or modifier akin to Assassin's Presence or Frost Spirit to the Traits or Elixir Share (which imo needs to be overhauled to be more interesting and engaging anyway). 

 

Losing ~80% effective health (while having 0% passive damage reduction) for 10-15% extra damage is just not worthwhile outside of benchmarks. 

In Fractals with frailty on for example Harbinger straight up has just 3800 HP (since Blight and Frailty both are taken from max HP, stacked), no Barrier, self Prot, Aegis or passive damage reduction - meaning this thing will make the ele down state meme, which already is a valid issue, look like a joke, getting oneshot everytime the FB support misses a single Aegis (or if FB ever isn't meta as support anymore/has it's Aegis application nerfed). 

Not only will that be frustrating to play, it'll also provide far less DPS uptime due to downs and ress times, taking away it's only upside of increased DPS.

So 1. it's gameplay consists mostly of just Auto Attacking and spamming 2 off-cool down at the best of times, 2. it'll constantly fall over in frustrating oneshots being far squishier than even Ele, even by attacks that weren't ever meant to do so with appropriate telegraphs, 3. the Utilities in Elixirs are the epitome of bland and lacklustre skills, 4. due to being projectile based and prone to downstate, it'll lose it's only strength in higher golem DPS in most practical situations. 5. ..yay, some mobility?

Edited October 3, 2021 by Asum.4960

[SAMWEIS.4601]

20 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

In short, Harbinger doesn't do anything unique like a Group damage modifier or otherwise unavailable support

good point

[Wintermute.5408]

I'd much rather give up shroud for some thief-style active defenses than for 45k DPS that will inevitably get nerfed into the ground. First is a gameplay change. Second is just marginally higher number.

Anyway. Do you guys think we'll see some changes to HB in next beta run? Or just number adjustments?

[Madeline.9504]

 

Feedback on Theme and Aesthetic with Harbinger

 

Hi there, 

 

I love the Necromancer and have played necro since the original guild wars (gw1).  From the begining in GW1 there was something satisfying about floating off the ground while stealing the blood out of an enemy to heal you  or bleeding yourself to heal others.  I loved the dark theme, I loved the blood magic vampire build, minion master,  curses and the like. GW2 has built on that base and it is  great. I especially love Reaper specialization and the wonderful Necro themed animations with it to boot. 

 

Now for the Harbinger,

 

This specialization with the gun and elixirs is not bad idea per se, but the  Harbinger feels like a dark engineer, not a Necro with a new specialization. I know the traits are named after Necro sounding themes, but it does not come across in play. Rather  the  Necromancer profession gets diluted and muddled with the Engineer here. If this is supposed to be a dark arts of alchemy for the Necromancer theme it missed the mark. It looks like someone gave up, ran out of ideas or time while working on the Harbinger and defaulted to Engineer skills.

 

Terminology 

The name elixir alone screams Engineer rather than dark potions of a plague doctor or alchemist. Terms used for the Harbinger skills could have been more descriptive or thematic. Better names  for the new necro Harbinger mechanic elixir/skills might have been words like:

Tincture

Serum

Toxin

Injection

Just not elixer! Something ...you know dark and sinister.

 

Skills and Pistol Art 

In addition, the elixir skill  art was very bland, each bottle looked so similar and the same goes for the pistol skill art. It was hard to keep track visually what skill was what, especially while fighting.

 

Animation  

I think  more unique animations with each elixir would help Harbinger as well. This might help with the feeling of not being an Engineer too.

Overall,  I was disappointed with Harbinger during  the beta after the Reaper and Scourge were so good.

I hope there are some major improvements coming to Harbinger before it is released in End of Dragons. 

 

 

[Michel.3986]

Elixirs are too boring. I guess you should implement some sort of interaction to it. Like

1. Elixir of Promise "Perform a quick ritual that imobilizes targets around you and drink the elishir of promise". 
2. Elixir of Ignorance "Break Stun, perform a  quick ritual that fear the enemies around you and drink the elixir."

[Wintermute.5408]

You know, after looking at second generation of elites - complex, with multitude of new mechanics, with interesting weapons and utilities... don't you think we've got an absolute short end of a stick with "here's half of your health, some kitten boons and 45k benchmark"?

Edited September 17, 2021 by Wintermute.5408

[Gomes.5643]

8 minutes ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

You know, after looking at second generation of elites - complex, with multitude of new mechanics, with interesting weapons and utilities... don't you think we've got an absolute short end of a stick with "here's half of your health, some kitten boons and 45k benchmark"?

 

Yep we did .... well as I played mostly ranger and thief I ofc hope that the current trend stays in regards to the quality of the specs 😅, hopefully the first three get some more love before EoD.

I still think that the Harbinger still has ther coolest theme as beeing a Plaguedoctor and the idea of sacrificing health for power is also quite fitting but the actual mechanics of the utilities and the shroud should get some love ..... and a new name would be appreciated ^^

Edited September 17, 2021 by Gomes.5643

[Wintermute.5408]

7 minutes ago, Gomes.5643 said:

 

Yep we did .... well as I played mostly ranger and thief I ofc hope that the current trend stays in regards to the quality of the specs 😅, hopefully the first three get some more love before EoD.

I have high hopes for thief. Always liked DD and DE. Gonna finally go through with ascended sets for her if new elite is cool.

[demitel.1340]

1 hour ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

You know, after looking at second generation of elites - complex, with multitude of new mechanics, with interesting weapons and utilities... don't you think we've got an absolute short end of a stick with "here's half of your health, some kitten boons and 45k benchmark"?

I have been playing Necromancer as my main character since 2012 and I have to say that Harbinger is the most boring elite specialization to date. Some other profession elites might be worse that Harbinger in usefulness, but they have much more interesting gameplay. Utility skills and traits are are too simple and unoriginal, press a button and get some boons, much wow. Even the elixir skill icons are copy / paste with slight color variations, I really hope those are placeholder images.

It's going to be really sad if I'm going to get a specialization which I'm never going to use in any situation. In current situation I'd rather play Catalyst as my main character instead of Harbinger and I don't even play as Elementalist at all. I don't mind pistol that much, even though I hoped for another weapon. But I think Harbinger needs off-hand pistol as well. Main hand piston does not feel good enough since our off-hand weapons sucks.

Edited September 17, 2021 by demitel.1340

[Asum.4960]

On 9/18/2021 at 12:08 AM, Wintermute.5408 said:

You know, after looking at second generation of elites - complex, with multitude of new mechanics, with interesting weapons and utilities... don't you think we've got an absolute short end of a stick with "here's half of your health, some kitten boons and 45k benchmark"?

The difference in quality is legitimately strange. These looks like really fun and unique specs with interactive skills, Traits, mechanics, while Harbinger looks more like a first draft of the idea of, "what if Necromancer lost both Shroud and half of it's HP and then just did damage and.. stuff?" 

 

Then they slapped bland tab target projectile skills on everything and filled up the rest with the bland elixirs and a lacklustre boon support line. 

And sure, Elixirs aren't the most interesting thing as Utility concept to begin with (although really, creativity is the limit), but even compared to Engie's core 2012 design they are just awful - without even considering the extra Tool Belt skills Engie gets from theirs. 

"Promise" is just a poor mans "H". "Bliss a poor mans "C". "Risk" and "Anguish" combined fall short of "U". No invulnerability, Stealth, Superspeed, hard CC, Endurance gain, revive... 

Okay, the cooldown's are lower in most cases, but having largely worthless effects at a high price (max HP reduction) more frequently isn't all that enticing compared to having strong and interesting skill effects and mechanics to begin with. 

Even if two of these Elixirs were merged into a single skill (like merging Risk+Anguish and Bliss+Ignorance) some of them still wouldn't be best in slot picks and struggle to compete with core skills that are designed around keeping a profession with >4 times the effective health alive, let alone do they make up for losing Shroud + half HP, compensating in any way for that massively increased squishiness.

Not to even tackle the skill art.

It's just so uninspired on every level.

 

As I noted before, with Harbinger it feels like the entire design focus was on what to take away from Necro as core mechanic, turning it from the highest effective health profession (which it is entirely designed around to be) to the lowest, to the point where they forgot to actually give it anything interesting that adds to it. 

 

Once that Benchmark comes down come launch, there isn't really anything Harbinger does.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Nimon.7840]

5 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

The difference in quality is legitimately strange. These looks like really fun and unique specs with interactive skills, Traits, mechanics, while Harbinger looks more like a first draft of the idea of, "what if Necromancer lost both Shroud and half of it's HP and then just did damage and.. stuff?" 

 

Then they slapped bland projectile skills on everything and filled up the rest with the bland elixirs and lacklustre boon support line.

 

As I noted before, with Harbinger it feels like the entire design focus was on what to take away from Necro as core mechanic, turning it from the highest effective health profession (which it is entirely designed around to be) to the lowest, to the point where they forgot to actually give it anything interesting that adds to it. 

 

Once that Benchmark comes down come launch, there isn't really anything Harbinger does.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

But it's not just Necro that has the short end of the stick.

Basically all three specs of the first beta Set are all so much worse designed than the new three.

 

But out of those three, Necro definetly feels the most boring.

 

- Only 3 new weapon skills.

- 5 shroud skills

- 6 ultra boring utility skills

- and minus what 80% of their effective health if you want to do very good damage?

- 3 traits that are basically useless, because they focus around power damage, but Necro has no weapons to back up those traits

- no real mechanic to get some survivability back (for example via traits) to kinda reduce the impact of the Trade-off.  

 

I know people will say now, that you don't have to deal with the blight mechanic, which is not really true. You will always get blight in shroud.

Yes you do t have to use the elixirs.

 

BUT:

Not playing with the blight mechanic makes 2 more traits useless.

I mean the increase strike damage for each blight stack is already useless, but not playing with blight makes it worse than a trash trait.

And the increase condi dmg trait still makes shroud 2 inflict poison, but yeah - That's a bit weak.

 

If I compare that to the new ele - oh boy.

> No trade-off, just straight upgrade to core

> Lots of skills that somehow combo with each other

 

 

We can really only hope that harbinger/Necro will see some Major changes/reworks 

[felincyriac.5981]

looks like they only had time to make 6 fully realised elite specs for this expac I guess

 

makes sense why they showed the half-done ones first.

[grave of hearts.7830]

Well heres my bone with harbinger,for one the whole being mobile lie i see plastered all over the damned place is false advertisement,one 900 range leap doesnt  make the class mobile.

 

Using pistol doesnt make you any more mobile than using an axe,the offhand options lets face it are horrible and still clanky as the day the game released 9 years ago,on top of the traits affecting them not making any real difference .

 

Can someone from the development team go into wvw and ROAM in tier 1 against mag for a month with the spec? let us know how well harbinger works against thieves and longbow rangers for you.

 

 

 

 

[Dschromm.2946]

i was just watching the second preview for the upcoming especs for rev, warrior and ele.

 

i gotta say that i'm pretty disappointed with the first three especs after watching, especially with the harbinger.
with the second bunch we have tons of beautiful animations, skill icons, nice mechanics, thought-trough traits and an over-all theme. harbinger, imo, is lacking almost all of that.

 

animations + skill icons
- the pistol animations are recycled engineer and thief animation with no real "wow"-effect. the engineer skills-mimicing pistol gives you more the feeling of playing a gothic engineer than a new necro-themed espec
- harbinger shroud auto and #5 are beautiful, but the other skills feel kinda lame and recycled. 

- elixirs are a disappointment. they are copy/paste of engineer elixirs (drink and get boons). no real animations and the icons looked all the same except for color.

 

class mechanics

- to me the new shroud isn't exactly what i would define as new. i kinda feel like a little bit like core necro restricted to auto attack (and the aoe version of the auto attack in form of harbinger shroud #2). the CC in form of shroud #5 is nice, but hiding our mobility skills behind shorud #3+4 makes them less accessable (and since we lose lots of health mechanic-wise can easily be a death-sentence). during the beta i was bored really fast, switch between pistol burst #2 and h-shroud #1+2. btw, where's fear?

- blight is really punishing. we lose up to 50% of our health and have no real active defenses outside shroud. the healing by draining life force outside of shroud is nice, but doesn't really compensate our immense lacks of defense now. furthermore, there is no real interaction between the class mechanic and skills or traits except for gain x % damage buffs. this makes the mechanic feel more like a punishment than a real mechanic.

 

traits

- i don't get why there are power traits, when power is clearly superior to condition damage with this kit. it's okay if you chose to give us another condi spec, but, please, consider giving us diversity within its theme insteas of pushing non-rewarding traits on us.

- boon support has no, i mean literally 0 interaction with blight. power and condi only get x % damage buffs based on blight stacks. this feels somehow lackluster.

- the grandmaster traits are disappointing. in every case we get a pulsing aura. two pulse damage, one pulses quickness. who do you thin would pick the damage auras? quickness is just so good that you wouln't miss out on it. and three auras is just unimaginative.

 

theme

- as it stands now, i felt like an kung fu-gothic-engineer whilst playing the harbinger and i had nearly no necro-feelings at all. maybe narrow it down to some central aspects you want to represent and try to bring back necro to the espec. please

- again a torment centered espec which was already taken by scourge.

 

some ideas

- consider reworking elixirs, you can use liquids in many other forms than drinking and getting boons. throw them and let the set free chemicals (smoke, alloys etc.) in an AoE that provide buffs or boons to allies or debuffs and cinditions to enemies. you could coat your weapons and ammonition with them to give you an advantage for a short time. thinking about it, thief venoms would have been a better type of utiliy skill, i guess.

- please, please, please also add pistol off-hand or rework existing off-hands. i'm also one of the players that cannot stand the weak and clunky OHs we already have any longer. 

- please rework dagger MH or give us another one-hand melee weapon with this spec (mace/pistol?!?)

- give us mobility/stabilty/evades or things similar outside shroud, please

- please add fear to shroud kit

- please check the espec trait line for synergy with existing ones. there isn't much as far as i notced and it's a shame.

- please consider to switch out the torment focus of the kits to another condition or another wider spread set of condis. during my first look at the trailer i was screaming "yeah, it's gonna be poison-based"

-the sound design for the skills of the especs of rev, war and ele were great. is it possible to get something unique for necro? like howling bullets? or just another shooting sound.

- shroud: as mentioned above i'm not a big friend of h-shroud. just an idea: as we use life force now to heal what about losing shorud completly? spending extra life force to imbue or curse our weapon attacks and bullets? like "coat your weapon/bullets in jade tech magic, inflicting opponents hit with a curse. when hit, create actual h-shroud #5 at the location of your opponent"... 

 

i know that's a lot, but i'm only this niggling because i care for my favorite class and this game. i always appreciate the effort you put in this game and i won't stop playing it by any chance... but for the first time i feel like switching mains which is especially hard for me who accomplished almost everything on his account on his necro-darling.

keep up the good work like with the e-specs shown in the last stream.

 

Dschromm ❤️

Edited September 20, 2021 by Dschromm.2946

[Asum.4960]

17 minutes ago, Dschromm.2946 said:

- elixirs are a disappointment. they are copy/paste of engineer elixirs (drink and get boons). no real animations and the icons looked all the same except for color.

 

They are pretty bad "copies" at that though.

 

Engie:

Elixir H: 5600 base heal, grants Protection, Regen and Swiftness, on top of a throwable Toolbelt skill for AoE Protection, Regen and Vigor - 25 second CD each.

 Harbinger:

Elixir of Promise: 1900 base heal, grants Vigor and 10% LF, lose 10% max HP - 25 second CD.

 

Or Elixir U: 6 Seconds of Quickness and Vigor as well as 2 stacks of Stab and is a stunbreak - on top of an additional throwable AoE Stunbreak and Superspeed, compared to Elixir of Anguish: 5 seconds of Quickness.. 10 seconds of Swiftness, lose 10% max Health. 

 

Or Elixir C granting full Condition to Boons conversion, with another throwable AoE conversion on top, with Bliss being more limited and removal only.

 

Not to forget Engie having Invulnerability and AoE Stealth via Elixir S, to which the vastly more squishy Harbinger has no analogy at all. 

 

And beyond that, Engies Elixir Trait also increasing Elixir durations, on top of the Cool Down reduction, as well as having passive Elixir Traits build into the profession, also affected by the Trait, while getting a lot of AoE effect share by default with the throwable Toolbelt skills. 

 

Comparing the Harbinger Elixirs to Engie really does Engie a disfavour with how much more interesting, potent and interactive they are, even at on average longer CD's. 

 

When CMC said on stream presenting Harbinger that they were able to make these Elixirs especially powerful since they come with a drawback of losing health, I genuinely just stared at the screen trying to figure out what I was missing about paying 10% max Health for 25 seconds for 10 seconds of a bit of Might and Fury - with no other mechanics like throwable toolbelts, interesting interactions with other Skills, Traits, Blight, nothing. 

 

They are just a heavy price that you get to pay frequently at low CD's - for little effect, which on top of that is bland, uninteresting and non-interactive to play with. 

 

Even one of the better ones in Bliss, why would you ever take that over Spectral Walk, which at almost the same CD, cleanses the same amount of conditions for more Life Force, most notably is a stunbreak and has a major movement and Utility component attached to it which provides fun interactions throughout all content from PvP kiting to a safetynet for jumping puzzles (and doesn't reduce your max HP)? 

 

Even if Ignorance and Bliss, as well as Risk and Anguish, were merged into one skill each instead, with them adding 2 others more, they would still struggle to find play.

 

These skills just don't make sense.

[Tails.9372]

On 9/16/2021 at 8:50 PM, Wintermute.5408 said:

Do you guys think we'll see some changes to HB in next beta run? Or just number adjustments?

Just some number adjustments. The thing about A-Net making changes seems to be based on either one of two things: in-game data and / or player feedback.

As for the data: I don't recall harbinger being over the top in regards to the competitive modes (and it wasn't bad either) so no real need for changes here and for PvE its damage was on the higher end but it was missing the support capabilities other builds / professions have so I guess we have to wait and see whether or not that's intentional but I wouldn't expect more than some minor nerfs here.

As for the player feedback: The ones that ask for changes fall usually into one of 3 categories: 1st: "I dont like the theme of the e-spec", 2nd: "elixirs feel bland" and 3rd: "needs better options for power damage". Now the devs said during multiple interviews now that their approach for player feedback is to completely ignore any proposed solutions and only try to figure out what the problem is and go from there which means for "1st": there is no real problem worth addressing here as whether or not it appeals to someone is a purely subjective, for "2nd": while it's not as "involved" as some of the stuff we've seen from the other classes I also can't see them completely overhauling that part of the e-spec either and for "3rd": that one is IMO the one that's most likely to be addressed but I wouldn't expect more than something like a 1% increase for Wicked Corruption.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Tails.9372

[shahryar.8437]

Considering they give blight the elixirs need to do a bit more then standard boons.

They need to do buffs that are similar to the Catalysts augments, they all do unique buffs like making all attacks AOE. Hell maybe even make them do extra stuff like the catalyst does but based on blight stacks. Like if over 10 stacks of blight you get a barrier or some such.

[Darkgaiden.3791]

I have very little to say here, since i dont play necromancer, and im not aware of how strong or weak some things are, and all i will say here will be probably destroyed by some necro mains that tell me how stupid i am for not understanding blah blah etc etc, but i did notice that, while all his new traits are elixirs, they are a boring/weaker version of engineers (they at least can chug it, or trow it for diferent effect), all they did was provide some buff or another, but nothing strong enough to even consider using it, giving all the other options already available..... i could go off topic crying about the necromancer balance (😡😭😭), but this is not the place, so that is all for me here, nothing more to add.

Peace ✌️

[LucianDK.8615]

3 minutes ago, Darkgaiden.3791 said:

I have very little to say here, since i dont play necromancer, and im not aware of how strong or weak some things are, and all i will say here will be probably destroyed by some necro mains that tell me how stupid i am for not understanding blah blah etc etc, but i did notice that, while all his new traits are elixirs, they are a boring/weaker version of engineers (they at least can chug it, or trow it for diferent effect), all they did was provide some buff or another, but nothing strong enough to even consider using it, giving all the other options already available..... i could go off topic crying about the necromancer balance (😡😭😭), but this is not the place, so that is all for me here, nothing more to add.

Peace ✌️

I agree wholly, the elixirs are some of the most uninspired skills ever.  And minionmasters just got nerfed for pvp.

[grave of hearts.7830]

Opened client,loaded catalyst,readed the skills and turned the game of.

The discrepancy on balance between harbinger and catalyst is disgusting,the catalyst kit is so grossly overloaded that harbinger should be renamed to NPC.

Edited September 22, 2021 by grave of hearts.7830

[Yuyuske.7182]

It occurs to me that a number of the complaints about this spec could be tied together to remedy each other.

The complaints - "Blight is an overly-punishing mechanic that doesn't have a real use", and "elixirs are boring", could be tied together, so that additional stacks of blight make the elixirs stronger; adding more stacks, longer durations, or giving additional effects per blight stack (or per every three blight stacks past the first, or per every 5 stacks, depending on the effect).

[Alice.4215]

Hello Devs. 

As someone who has played GW2 everyday for 9 years and has not missed a single daily, I would like to provide some feedback.

(I speak as an experienced player with 42.6k AP, all CMs cleared, G3/P1 PvP, 3k WvW)

 

I propose some alterations to the Harbinger to fit the theme better and also provide more interesting gameplay.

 

Main Condition: 

Harbinger's main condition should be Poison, not Torment. We've had enough of Torment already with Scourge, and Bleeding is covered by condi Reaper(even though nobody plays it in high-end content, it is still a high damage Bleeding-main build that exists). Burning exists as a side extra that all forms of Necro have access to, so keeping it as an extra on Harbinger too is fine.

In the trailer itself, the Harbinger is literally described as shooting noxious bullets out of the Pistol, so Poison thematically fits more than Torment.

 

Shroud: 

Tainted Bolts: Fire quick bolts of dark energy that explode on impact, inflicting poison(instead of torment) to enemies in the area.
Dark Barrage: Fire six bolts of poisonous(instead of tormenting) energy that fan out from you, piercing all enemies in their path.

Devouring Cut: Channel twisted energy to launch yourself at your foe, poisoning(instead of tormenting) nearby enemies.
 

Pistol: 

Vicious Shot: Fire a poisonous(instead of tormenting) bullet that bounces between nearby foes.

Weeping Shots: Pierce your enemies with a series of corrosive bullets, inflicting poison(instead of torment) and vulnerability. Gain life force for the first target hit by each bullet.
Vile Blast: Fire a dart that shatters on impact, releasing noxious liquid that stuns, weakens, and torments(instead of poisons) foes in the area. Gain life force for each target struck.

(Shots inflicting Torment does not make sense in the first place. You are physically hitting a target with a bullet, how does that have anything to do with their mind being tormented? Vile Blast could make sense to inflict torment/confusion instead because they get stunned from it though)

 

Elixirs: 

Elixirs are currently uninspired, all of them are just boons+blight. The condition AoE from Vile Vials should be instead baseline integrated into the Elixirs, with different conditions on enemies depending on the theme of said Elixir.

Elixir of Promise: Gain health, vigor, and life force. Inflict blight on yourself and Blind on nearby enemies.

(Blinded by Promise)

Elixir of Risk: Gain might and fury. Inflict blight on yourself and Taunt(1s) on nearby enemies. 

(Taunting multiple enemies close to you and directing their target to yourself is a big big risk, so this fits the name)

Elixir of Anguish: Gain swiftness and quickness. Inflict blight on yourself and Chill on nearby enemies.

(Cripple as an homage to GW1 skill Crippling Anguish also fits. Fear too, but that could be OP). 

Elixir of Bliss: Gain resolution and convert your conditions into life force. Inflict blight on yourself and Weakness on nearby enemies. 

Elixir of Ignorance: Gain resistance and break stuns. Inflict blight on yourself and Vulnerability(5) on nearby enemies.

Elixir of Ambition: Gain all boons. Inflict significant blight on yourself and Slow on nearby enemies.

 

Traits: 

All the traits are pigeon-holing into 111, 222, or 333 selections, not sure if this is intended. However, many of the traits are just uninspired stat increases. They should have a gameplay effect instead of all of them just being increased numbers. 

Vile Vials: Elixirs are now ground-targeted and affect allies with their respective boons and enemies with their respective conditions(see Elixirs section above). The Harbinger does not gain the boons if they are not within the area where the Elixir is thrown. The Blight only affects the Harbinger, and is gained regardless of whether the Harbinger is hit by the thrown Elixir or not.

Twisted Medicine: Elixirs gain increased durations of their respective boons and conditions. Remove the concentration-gain-based-on-vitality portion of this skill. Elixir skills gain reduced recharge(moved from Vile Vials).

Dark Gunslinger: Pistol skills gain reduced recharge. Poison you inflict lasts 20% longer. Remove the expertise-gain-based-on-vitality portion of this skill. 

Doom Approaches: Changed to Volatile Poisons: Poison you inflict deals increased damage. While in Harbinger Shroud, you gain an aura that pulses each interval to Poison and weaken nearby enemies. Remove the condition-damage-increase part.

Wicked Corruption: Changed to Corruption Tolerance: Each Blight stack only reduces your maximum health by 1% instead of 2%. Deal increased strike damage for each stack of blight you have. 

Cascading Corruption: While in Harbinger Shroud, you gain an aura that damages, cripples, and applies a stack of Cascading Corruption to nearby enemies on every pulse. The aura does increased damage to enemies based on the number of stacks of Cascading Corruption already on them. Remove the Your-power-is-increased portion of this skill.
 

Thank you for reading my feedback. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Turtle Dragon.9241

[Tails.9372]

18 hours ago, Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

In the trailer itself, the Harbinger is literally described as shooting noxious bullets out of the Pistol

That one refers to the corrosive properties which are reflected in the vulnerability debuff that is heavily featured on Weeping Shots.

18 hours ago, Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

so Poison thematically fits more than Torment

It doesn't as they said in the reveal trailer: "the source of its power is its own pain which is directed at the opponent" and for that poison does not fit here, torment however does and it's highly unlikely that we're going to get a fundamental thematic change after the initial reveal.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Tails.9372