Harbinger Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Asum.4960]

18 hours ago, Sublimatio.6981 said:

I feel like the shroud skill 3 and 4 shouldn't remove blight stacks, because it feels like you're nerfing yourself then (you lose %dmg modifiers). Like I would definitely feel discouraged from using those skills because I will lose damage modifier. 

I've benched the spec quite a few times now to specifically test this, and every time dumping Blight stacks via Voracious Arc was pretty much exactly the same, if not very slightly more, DPS than stacking up Blight for Sceptic Corruption. In any case, it's not a big difference.

 

As I said in a few Threads before though, I agree that it's bad design to have two damage increasing mechanics on the spec that directly contradict each other, at least with the Blight removal one being the one that's baseline (if anything, increased damage per Blight should be baseline, and dumping Blight via skills an optional Trait mechanic to spec into). 

 

Imo these two should be distinct playstyles you can choose between (something I tried to accomplish here, among other things), rather than baseline functionality offering no choice or customisation.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Ukon Cairns.9160]

for me one of the things i love most about necro is the corruption condi juggling, placing condis on self to send to enemies, which is iffy in group content (supports will kindly cleanse the condis on you before you can send them)

in beta 1 the blight management on harbinger really scratched that itch. you wanted max stacks for dmg multiplier, and if you dropped it you're life force plummeted to heal you. there was danger like corruptions but well meaning healers couldnt ruin what you were trying to do. 

beta 4 feels like a they took that away. blight thresholds just dont scratch that itch the same way. why are all my sources of blight also blight removal? i want the blight why is it so much harder to get. 

lordi it sucks to be teased with exactly what you wanted only to have it change in all the wrong ways. 

it feels like they have more work to do now than they did in august to get harbinger in a satisfying place. 

[zzzGranada.2067]

Without access to utility skills in shroud, it's hard to safely send conditions in the current cleanse heavy meta. (I tried raiding and strikes on harbringer, the condis I applied to myself were often cleansed before I could transfer them with plague sending or dagger 4).

 

Also, bug wise: I tried to take a Dhuum green while in Harb shroud. I was standing in the green early. The green activated, I was immediately popped out of shroud and NOT taken up into the air. The reaper then died.

[Nimon.7840]

Harbinger - High risk high reward?

thats at least how i understood, that spec should play out, but to me, it seems more like high risk zero reward.

let me explain:
disclaimer: all of the following points are made based on gameplay in endgame pve and wvw - roaming and duels

1.) zero sustain
after the changes to the passive regeneration while out of shroud: the removal of that mechanic this spec litterally has no real defenses anymore. on top of that, the only evade skill (that is btw locked behind shroud) got the nerf hammer as well, reducing its range by one third.
in return we got slightly more healing from our healing elixir and it does now give regen instead of vigor but doesnt give lifeforce anymore.
my thoughts on these changes:

in pve the changes to the healing elixir dont really matter (only the loss of lifeforce generation), for pvp we got 2,3k additional healing and regeneration but lost the lifeforce and vigor of it. that 8 seconds regeneration gives you 1k health, but the vigor could give you an additional dodge which translates to infinite health when dodging hard hitting skills of enemies.
overall. also not having the passive regeneration anymore really didnt do any good. in the first beta you could at least build somewhat tanky - now thats basically impossible (which can be good, dont get me wrong).
i took implacable foe (power trait btw) just for this one stack of stability even on condi builds, just to increase my survivability by a little bit.
i also dont get why the evade skill got its range nerfed. that nerf makes it maybe evenly mobile as reaper, but you dont have the shroud to protect your life anymore

2.) lifeforce issues
im not going into further detail. @Lily.1935 did a really good job at describing that problem here: Issues with Harbinger and some solutions to fix them - Necromancer - Guild Wars 2 Forums

3.) bad damage
power is even worse than condi. core necros power weapons are just bad and in addition there isnt even an offhand power weapon for pve.
power builds are basically useless in pve (26k dps btw) and even in wvw they arent really good. theres absolutely no reason to play harbinger over reaper, if you want to go power.
wvw: now that the tanky versions are basically obliterated, the only thing left is going full glass cannon.
i had a lot of time this week to play around with the harbinger. and if you are building full glass cannon you should at least be able to somewhat "oneshot" people. right now, even if you land shroud 5 (ill get back to that later) you still wont be able to kill people. so you have to be the master baiter, to land your shroud 5, and then burst the enemy, but you arent really able to kill enemies in those 3 seconds of float -  that is really bad.

pve: while the damage of harbinger in the first beta was way to high (45k dps) now its way too low (36k dps), a class with no defenses, no self sustain, a rotation that requires you to use your heal skill for dps, really low health due to blight and not a single supportive ability should definetly do more dps (look at renegade being basically immortal due to battlescars while pumping 40k dps - medium health and heavy armor)

4.) boon build is bad
while its great to finally have a boon build on necro, its at the same time extremely bad, that its only able to keep up quickness. all the other boons dont really have a great uptime, especially with the elite elixir nerfed to 90 seconds cd.
theres no way around it - i have to compare quickness harbinger to quickness firebrand.
right now, qFB sits at a benchmark of 32k dps, qharbinger is at max 27k. that in itself wouldnt be a problem, but the big problem is the other utility a firebrand brings, that harbinger just cant. infinite aegis, stability... thats things harbinger dont have access to. and the quickness uptime is a lot more tight on qharbinger. if you want to give 100% quickness uptime, you need 50% boonduration, which at first sight sounds pretty low right? - wrong, with 50% boonduration you are barely able to keep up the quickness, as soon as you drop alacrity, you wont be able to keep up permanent quickness anymore. 
to be honest. 27k dps is enough for a "support spec". look at scrapper -28k benchmark on the quickness build - and scrapper sees play even in speedruns so qharbinger is fine right? - wrong again. scrapper brings a lot of other utility. main point would be permanent superspeed for your group.

5.) elixirs feel better
elixirs feel a lot better to use than in beta 1. BUT they are still pretty boring and their effects are still kinda weak compared to core necro abilities. maybe if the elixir trait would actually add one additional boon to every elixir (and maybe something else for the elite). in wvw those elixirs dont give any additional survivability. you basically have to use flesh wurm and spectral walk, to have at least higher chances to survive.
or maybe they should have other additional effects like stealth or superspeed

6.)  traitdesign
im amazed that nothing changed here.
wicked corruption vs septic corruption: both increase outgoing damage, but somehow the condi trait has an additional effect while the power trait doesnt?
vile vials is extremely weak. yes 3 seconds of slow on throwing elixirs would be way to strong, but taking this trait for just the cooldown reduction and a little bit of vulnerability just isnt worth it.
the next three traits are kinda fine in my opinion, but im going to say something in general about the master and grandmaster traits: just gaining stats based of vitality is super lazy and boring trait desing.
next up: grandmaster traits.
pls just remove them, pulsing damage around you with different effects is another boring traitdesign. almost feels like there were no ideas left, so we got the auras.
also none of those traits actually change the way you play harbinger.

7.) miscellaneous
- shroud 5 is extremely hard to hit against players. its not just 1 second casttime and people get lifted up, but the animation of the skill has to finish as well. so thats 1 second cast time plus 2 seconds of animation time - thats just way too much.
- removing blight with shroud 3 and 4 is like fighting against your own traits, and the payoff isnt really there. in pve you basically get almost the same results in numbers (dps wise) if you use shroud 4 at the end of the shroud rotation, than you do by not using it at all.
- when in squad view, allies still see your "shroud health" not your actual health when in shroud, this almost seems like a bug.

- blight is fine, don't nerf it further, buff survivability in another way pls

8.) tldr
overall i would say that the high risk high reward doesnt exist, its only risk.
its not more mobile than any other necro spec while having less survivability and less damage.
traits are extremely boring and dont change the way you play harbinger.
elixirs are better than their first iterations but still not quite where they should be.
i dont get it, why shroud locks us out on our utility skills, imo it should work like holo forge.
on top of that: i absolutely dont understand why harbinger has to deal with two tradeoffs and classes like bladesworn have one drawback, but others like Catalyst and untamed are just straight upgrades to their core specs

Edited December 5, 2021 by Nimon.7840

[KrHome.1920]

In a nutshell

- the mechanical rework is contradictionary in PvE: remove blight to increase damage vs. stack blight to increase damage

- the spec is overnerfed in PvP/WvW and hardcountered by any projectile denial skill followed by a counterburst or simply by range

- bugs like transfusion not working on the harbinger itself are further worsening the situation

[rowanblaze.2134]

8 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

overall i would say that the high risk high reward doesnt exist, its only risk.

I can't think of a good reason to ever use the Harbinger as it is. It may be the devs' intent to "flip Necromancer's normal gameplay on its head," but that doesn't mean I will want to play it. Necro in all its previous forms has been a nigh unkillable force of nature; now, it's just a gnat to be swatted away by the first Veteran mob it encounters.

[Decinomicon.4619]

My feelings on Harbinger as a necro main:

Let me just start this by saying, I enjoyed Beta 1's version of harbinger better than this current iteration. Harbinger was fun to play and felt impactful, there was good risk and reward to its gameplay. Now its just risk with harbinger. Harbinger has basically no defenses now. In version 1 your shroud healed you, now this had problems like being able to get shroud back in a fight, but it did allow you to survive. In version 2 it no longer heals you (More life force Yay \o/) but the trade off now it does nothing to protect you while lowering your max life. Honestly, if shroud is not going to protect you anymore, we should be allowed to use utility skills while in shroud. Scourge can use their shroud skills and utility skills at the same time, and yes while their shroud does not directly protect them, it gives them a metric ton of barrier. The nerf to shroud 2 3 and 4 felt unnecessary. While I do like the changes made to elixirs I would rather it be "you drink elixir, it does its thing, special effect happens with enough blight" I saw someone mention like you spit a swarm of flies that inflict condis, stuff like that. Instead of more things happen at ground target zone. The damage bonus from blight did not need to be reduced with max health loss from blight. Honestly the only good feeling change from beta 1 to beta 4 was the reduction on max health loss.

TLDR SUMMARY:
-Beta 1 Harbinger felt better
-Harbinger is missing any form of protection in its kit
-If shroud doesn't block health damage we should be able to use utility skills in shroud
-The nerfs to shroud 2 3 and 4 didn't feel needed
-Elixirs still need changes
-Damage nerf from blight stacks needs to be reverted

[Ukon Cairns.9160]

also the traits need work. they  are boring and so direct. its embarrassing to see harbinger traits compared to mechanist traits or even virtuoso traits. 

virtuoso traits (although in need of touch ups)  has its 2 things it trying to do (power and condi) and then the 3rd trait line is utility options either can dip into. personally this is the direction i wanna see harbinger explore, it has the 2 things its trying to do (condi and support) and then a 3rd trait line of utility options. 

but if you insist on trying to do all 3, (power, support, and condi) then look at mechanist. all the traits are so multifaceted. the major adept traits arent only a choice between power/support/condi its a choice between ranged and melee. the major grandmasters again arent just power/support/condi, they are a choice between trait interactions, utility skill interactions, the ability for the mech to take hits and the ability for the mech to evade hits. theres actual reasons to mix and match for mechanist, unlike current harbinger traits.

[raxacori.3512]

This is from a WvW roamer's perspective, someone in a zerg could have a different experience but I haven't really tried that yet. 

I am a necromancer main, I've played it and it's specs for thousands of hours. I played harbinger for about 15 hours this beta week, and here are my main takeaways and opinions:

The second health bar thematic of necromancer is really lacking (but that can be potentially ok if adjusted). Base necromancer and reaper both had life force act as a second health bar. Scourge had it in a different but similar manner with using barriers; it was different but it was good overall.
Harbinger though.... a shroud form but gives a stacking health cut debuff, and provides no second health bar. It reminds me of holosmith a bit, where you enter a form where you can overheat and take damage. However, if it's more meant to be played like using photonforge, I don't think the utility bar should be locked out like normal shroud. The drawbacks of going into shroud as harbinger feels way too punishing.

 

I've played both condition damage and power builds with harbinger. Power damage is weaker than the damage output from reaper or death shroud. Condition damage felt worse than any other spec I've played condi with. Harbinger suffered from the usual necromancer problems of crowd control and kiting. This could be remedied some by increasing the shroud #4 range a bit. Someone mentioned earlier making the shroud #3 like warrior greatsword #3 with ground targeting, which I think is a great idea. Without the second health bar, or any new way to mitigate/block damage, both power and condi suffer heavily from burst damage.

The damage output of harbinger felt comparable to, or worse at times, than the current necro specs. The tradeoff for taking harbinger shroud doesn't feel like it's rewarded enough by an increase in damage or by some other means.

 

I am underwhelmed by the elixirs. The cooldowns, even when traited, are too long to be quite as useful in a WvW setting (roaming at least, imo). I don't know how that would affect support gameplay, and if it's possible to balance without breaking. Some elixirs are more useful than others- I like the heal a lot, as well as the elite and condition removal one. 

Traits feel really lackluster and dull, and overlap some with existing necromancer traits.

 

Overall, I do think this new specialization shows promise. I like the harbinger shroud skills, they're a lot of fun. I think pistol is in a decent position, too. I like the changes since the last beta test, I think the spec is moving in the right direction. My biggest issue is it feels like harbinger loses too much survivability that necromancer has always had thematically.  It's too punishing in it's current form. It felt really different, and not quite in a good way, to play without a second health bar, and it took me a while to get the hang of it.

------------------Edit------------------

This is some of my gameplay from the weekend. Rewatching my footage makes me realize how much work I have to do to kill anything compared to other classes and specs. It's also a lot slower.

Edited December 6, 2021 by raxacori.3512
Added link to YouTube video for gameplay footage

[Bale.3851]

you seem like a pretty salty guy. Where did the evil core necro touch you? But for real i understand your problem with core necro in spvp (not wvw  cause in wvw so many speccs are broken like scrapper thief you name it full pile of kitten). It just doesnt mean the necro has to have the same problems too (which is doesnt). Also this is the harbinger feedback forum to improve this class which doesnt have a dmg absorbing shroud you seem to dislike.

 

So my suggestion is: Why dont you post your salt in the "core necro is op" toppic. The guys there will help you.

 

Also im just curious will you hate thief now cause specter got and dmg aborbing shroud witch much cc and mobility of hell ?

 

 

[Arheundel.6451]

4 minutes ago, Aktium.9506 said:

Around 8k/11k hours of my playtime is on Necro. Harbinger doesn't really offer anything new except quickness sharing in raids. And that's unlikely to ever get played for as long as I'm locked in the boon chrono cuckcage when I raid.

Core Necro is a better condi build in PvP. Reaper is a better power build in PvP. Scourge is a better support in PvP.

There's nothing that makes me want to play it. And the traitlines themselves are painfully uninspired.

Maybe you should take a look at professions like elementalist and see really "how bad" necros are getting it , you are always welcome to try ele...but hey you won't for certain. The entire community is more than welcome to ask Anet to swap harbinger with catalyst..you can get even the focus with OB as weapon....any day...most eles will support you

[Bezerker.2379]

Useless in small group roam now. No regen and low mobility again.

 

Undo those changes please.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Bezerker.2379

[Arheundel.6451]

5 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

you seem like a pretty salty guy. Where did the evil core necro touch you? But for real i understand your problem with core necro in spvp (not wvw  cause in wvw so many speccs are broken like scrapper thief you name it full pile of kitten). It just doesnt mean the necro has to have the same problems too (which is doesnt). Also this is the harbinger feedback forum to improve this class which doesnt have a dmg absorbing shroud you seem to dislike.

 

So my suggestion is: Why dont you post your salt in the "core necro is op" toppic. The guys there will help you.

 

Also im just curious will you hate thief now cause specter got and dmg aborbing shroud witch much cc and mobility of hell ?

 

 

Harbinger is bad because they removed the passive 500HP for second, with 0 healing power, regeneration? Are you guys kittening serious?...yes yes you all are....and it's sad

[Aktium.9506]

12 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Maybe you should take a look at professions like elementalist and see really "how bad" necros are getting it , you are always welcome to try ele...but hey you won't for certain. The entire community is more than welcome to ask Anet to swap harbinger with catalyst..you can get even the focus with OB as weapon....any day...most eles will support you

How is Catalyst also being bad going to make me want to play Harbinger? It's still bad even if Catalyst is worse.

[Esorono.1039]

3 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You simply don't have access to broken shroud carrying players since Feb 2020 .....where they didn't touch the dmg reduction/sustain of shroud while they did nerf everybody else and that brought the proliferation of necro in all game modes, it's not Harbinger the problem....it's specs like reaper and core necro untill they address the dmg reduction of shroud....in the meantime necro mains should train on their dodging skill....or they can go and play "block/evade/invulnerability" ele.....if all that block/evade of other professions would really be that good, we wouldn't see 4-5 necros per match in pvp and hundreds of them in wvw

 

First we address that dmg reduction shroud and then we can throw a bone to this Harbinger, in the meantime the whole community (except necros ofc) is thankfull to Anet for not introducing yet another faceroll elite after scourge.

 

Not happy? you are all welcome to play these "block/invulnerability" professions...but something tell me 90% of you won't, will stick to current unnerfed core necro/reaper and will keep asking for Harbinger to be turned into another shroud soaking monstrosity

I mean, I do play everything, each one with multiple sets, different builds, different game modes. I am rather good at knowing what they are strong at and weak at. Necromancers are popular because they have a low skill floor, you don't need to know much to be half way decent with them. This makes them a very powerful choice in early PvP ranks, as not many people understand how to counter them. However they don't handle burst, like at all, when you start going against harder people who understand their profession's damage, pressure, and cc options, brainlessly mashing is not going to get you anywhere.

Or instead, you can just go to the forums and QQ about a profession you keep losing to instead of learning about the game and your profession, because you can't just unga bunga your way to victory. Thief op because of stealth? QQ nerf it! Weaver op because of stunlocks? QQ nerf it! Soulbeast op because it nukes like a truck? QQ nerf it! Necromancer op because it has a second health bar? QQ nerf it! I could go on, but I am not going to waste my time. Stop whining and learn the game.

[Arheundel.6451]

11 minutes ago, Esorono.1039 said:

I mean, I do play everything, each one with multiple sets, different builds, different game modes. I am rather good at knowing what they are strong at and weak at. Necromancers are popular because they have a low skill floor, you don't need to know much to be half way decent with them. This makes them a very powerful choice in early PvP ranks, as not many people understand how to counter them. However they don't handle burst, like at all, when you start going against harder people who understand their profession's damage, pressure, and cc options, brainlessly mashing is not going to get you anywhere.

Or instead, you can just go to the forums and QQ about a profession you keep losing to instead of learning about the game and your profession, because you can't just unga bunga your way to victory. Thief op because of stealth? QQ nerf it! Weaver op because of stunlocks? QQ nerf it! Soulbeast op because it nukes like a truck? QQ nerf it! Necromancer op because it has a second health bar? QQ nerf it! I could go on, but I am not going to waste my time. Stop whining and learn the game.

Yes! TOP teams use 2-3 necros in their winning team because the class is "good only against noobs"......give me a kittening break

[Esorono.1039]

4 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Yes! TOP teams use 2-3 necros in their winning team because the class is "good only against noobs"......give me a kittening break

Using it in a braindead fashion is only good against noobs. Necromancer in itself is rather solid, Of course like other professions you have to know what you are doing. But it has its weaknesses and counters as well, and they are rather exploitable for certain professions. It's also usually why they typically focus on side node.

[Asum.4960]

26 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Yes! TOP teams use 2-3 necros in their winning team because the class is "good only against noobs"......give me a kittening break

Can you name those teams/provide some references? I've seen 4 Revs stacked win AT's and such, I don't think I've ever seen a top team use more than 1 Necro and win anything. You'd just get outrotated. That said, I haven't been in the PvP scene recently.

 

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Maybe you should take a look at professions like elementalist and see really "how bad" necros are getting it , you are always welcome to try ele...but hey you won't for certain. The entire community is more than welcome to ask Anet to swap harbinger with catalyst..

Harbinger this beta did 37k DPS, < 30k providing Quickness. Catalyst did 50.5k DPS on Small, 55k DPS on huge hitboxes, and 45k DPS as quickness support. If you are offering a swap, I'm down. 

 

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Not happy? you are all welcome to play these "block/invulnerability" professions...but something tell me 90% of you won't, will stick to current unnerfed core necro/reaper and will keep asking for Harbinger to be turned into another shroud soaking monstrosity

Considering I literally have more playtime on other "block/invulnerability professions", some of which are characters that I made half a decade later than my Necro, because it was utterly unwanted in the game for so long up until very recently (specifically PvE), this is a pretty mute point for me at least. 

 

And no, I don't want Harbinger to be just another Shroud soaking spec, in fact, making Shroud the be all end all mechanic for Necromancer is imo the worst thing that happened to Necro with the GW2 adaption from GW1, severely limiting it's design, especially when it comes to defenses. 

There is such a giant mountain of thematic and design space left for Necro in terms of active defensive mechanics which they never explored "bc Shroud". That's why many of us asked for Shroudless Necro specs for years.

But you can't just then take away the mechanic that makes up ~90% of the professions defense which the entire Profession is designed around + add another downside (Blight) while giving it nothing of that in return (save for one single tiny evade which doesn't even cover it's entire animation). 

One would think that's fairly common sense.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Bale.3851]

@Arheundel.6451 i cant agree more with asum. If you dont see the problem with harbinger i will clearify it for you. In PVP to play this class you have to get compansated in some kind for taking away 80-90% of your effective health. I personally dont care in what way (active or passive). But if the specc stays as it is it wont either not be played which is just bad or be buffed to do horandous amounts of dmg. Both variants arent good for the game.

 

So i dont really care where your problem with necro is. Sure necro is strong is spvp, so are other classes. Also they are now undeniably good in every aspect of the game. Like other classes. There is just a problem with scourge cause you can stack them up in PVE.

 

And to your point of 500 hp/s. Just lol...first of its a beta. Numbers will be tuned. A beta is about mechanics. Also are you whining in the Vindicator / Specter / Mechanist forum ? Because i had no problem in beta 4 to pull 500hps on all those classes witch marauder gear. Vindicator was even more if you just doged when ever you could.

 

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Maybe you should take a look at professions like elementalist and see really "how bad" necros are getting it , you are always welcome to try ele...but hey you won't for certain. The entire community is more than welcome to ask Anet to swap harbinger with catalyst..you can get even the focus with OB as weapon....any day...most eles will support you

What happens on other professions has zero relevance to the discussion about harbinger. If you want to complain about Catalyst, this certainly isn't the place to do it. The changes for harbinger for beta 4 are not acceptable IMO, and we don't need some comparisons to other classes to make that case. 

[Arheundel.6451]

46 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

@Arheundel.6451 i cant agree more with asum. If you dont see the problem with harbinger i will clearify it for you. In PVP to play this class you have to get compansated in some kind for taking away 80-90% of your effective health. I personally dont care in what way (active or passive). But if the specc stays as it is it wont either not be played which is just bad or be buffed to do horandous amounts of dmg. Both variants arent good for the game.

 

So i dont really care where your problem with necro is. Sure necro is strong is spvp, so are other classes. Also they are now undeniably good in every aspect of the game. Like other classes. There is just a problem with scourge cause you can stack them up in PVE.

 

And to your point of 500 hp/s. Just lol...first of its a beta. Numbers will be tuned. A beta is about mechanics. Also are you whining in the Vindicator / Specter / Mechanist forum ? Because i had no problem in beta 4 to pull 500hps on all those classes witch marauder gear. Vindicator was even more if you just doged when ever you could.

 

You had your fill of "godhood", you had it for the last 3 years at least: you have been dominating WvW-PvP and PvE. New players on necro had a hell of a good time, you have been playing with a huge kittening grin on your face for the last 3 years.

On the other hand you have professions like ele or warrior which have been dumped on with tracks full of horseshit, you have like 1-2 players still streaming on either profession and you rarely see them played in high number like necro, you'll never see 50 kitten eles clearing a meta event with world boss....let alone 50 warriors.

It is about time they introduce something requiring some actual brain power to play rather than press F1 and feel like a god, I wish nothing more...nothing more than Anet giving blocks/invulnerabilities to necro with Harbinger, I only wish Anet would go and actually add them to Harbinger.

I can't even imagine how hilarious would be to watch your average joe on necro trying to stay alive while scrambling to get 40s CD+ skill up and running, after years being left with the ability to access another HP bar and huge dmg/condi reduction on a 10s CD.

Blocks? Invulnerabilities? evades?....oh God please yes yes! Please Anet give all of this to necros?.....I can only imagine how enjoyable would be to watch players struggle while unable to access their 50% dmg/condi reduction on a 10s CD

Edited December 5, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[SunTzu.4513]

While i agree that other professions have had a hard time on the last developmet cycles too since PoF release we should not argue about who got the short end of the viability/balance stick. This will not solve any issues. We should be vocal about the glearing issues/problems of every spec to made them all better for every one! Wiping away complains about a spec by drawing the ''xyz'' has it way worse card will change nothing imo. and figthing about who got it worse leads to nothing.

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You had your fill of "godhood", you had it for the last 3 years at least: you have been dominating WvW-PvP and PvE. New players on necro had a hell of a good time, you have been playing with a huge kittening grin on your face for the last 3 years.

On the other hand you have professions like ele or warrior which have been dumped on with tracks full of horseshit

I don't know if you are new to the game (or only care about the PvP aspect of the game), in which case, fine, you might not know the classes whole history, but playing Necro was grounds for kicks in end game content in particular up until around July 2020, when Reaper got some much needed buffs with the Well changes, which put it into the "acceptable" category. Scourge was scoffed at in PvE up until around May of 2021 with the Torment changes. 

 

So in terms of PvE, we are talking about Necro being great for less than 1/9th of the games lifetime, with it being bottom of the barrel, or in your words "dumped on with tracks full of horseshit" for the rest.

 

Now I do disagree with your "having your fill of godhood" philosophy as a whole in terms of balancing. Imo all classes should have a place, always. Ofc they can't all be the best and nobody is expecting perfect balance, but nothing should wilfully be trashed just because it was really good for some time before. 

 

But, even if you subscribe to that philosophy, it's really ironic to pick Warrior and Ele as your counterpoints to that, considering they are some of the primary examples of dominant classes in GW2's history and certainly "had their fill of godhood", until they got somewhat replaced as the star classes of the game by Mesmer and Guard, and then now Necro getting a tiny taste of that as well as of late.

 

That said, again, I don't think what was is relevant for future balance and commenting on class balance with jealousy and spite utterly unproductive. What matters is how to get each and every spec in a healthy fun place to be for EoD - and this topic isn't about how Warrior or Ele have suffered as of recent (as much as I wish the best for Catalyst and Bladesworn), but how to get Harbinger there - as the title of the topic might give away. 

Can we get back to that, if you don't mind?

Edited December 5, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Nimon.7840]

guys can you pls stick to actual constructive feedback?
it would be really nice to get a playable and enjoyable elite spec when the expansion launches
 

[Esorono.1039]

8 minutes ago, Nimon.7840 said:

guys can you pls stick to actual constructive feedback?
it would be really nice to get a playable and enjoyable elite spec when the expansion launches
 

There isn't much we can do, they said they listened to feedback yet said they got rid of the passive health gain out of shroud due to player feedback, yet despite my best efforts for searching for it, no post on here or Reddit really complained about that. The only real exception to this rule is if someone brags about how good something is whether or not it has any ground to stand on. So if I say something on the lines of. "Power Harbinger is completely OP! I can get like 45K dps on it, and can survive anything, also I won a duel with the top 10 players in pvp with it easily!" It's nerfed, whether or not it has any evidence of the case.