Bale.3851 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 2/23/2022 at 2:16 PM, Uete.3805 said: So... anyone knows when can we expect to see the final balance on the new e-specs? I'm very worried they won't fix the lack of damage from last beta. I don't think they'll give us the health regen back (sadly, as that felt very new for necro and it's something similar to holo's healing which I loved), but I'm hopeful the damage numbers might go up, as well as the traveled distance in Shroud . What do you people think? I hope so too. Cause they have to buff specifically harbinger traits. Any other buff would contradict their core necro nerf which already missed the target except for lich AA. Like stated in various threads a buff to sustain in any kind is needed. Maybe even add stability to an elixier to make support and offensive harbinger more viable in PVE and PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uete.3805 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 From WP's new video it seems the life force to health regen is definitely gone T.T and that there's no new UI indication for the amount of blight on Harbi. Maybe they'll work on something like that eventually. This might be the first expac where I won't be using my Necro in the first play-through and it looks pretty much that Harbi in PVP is a no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPT.7431 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Uete.3805 said: life force to health regen is definitely gone Can you translate that for noob, please? 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uete.3805 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, StarPT.7431 said: Can you translate that for noob, please? 😛 xD sorry, my bad. I meant the passive regeneration we had on Harbinger in beta1. It used to consume your life force in order to heal you while outside of shroud if you weren't at max health. Now that interaction is gone and I feel quite sad as it gave us something new an unique for Harbi's life force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotDelirium.7984 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 -With the numerous ways we can gain life-force plus the Harbinger trait that grants life-force anyways. I think the slow life-force regen mechanic should be put back in place due to the blight mechanic being such an intense risk/reward system. Lower health but a bit more regeneration makes this still risky but not completely overloaded. You can tie it to an existing trait line for balance purposes if you need to or for varied play styles. -The heal skill per blight threshold I think should impact the healing and not anything offensive. -The first two pistol skills and first two harbinger skills seem a bit too similar. We need some variety instead of just MORE projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) The main issue is that anet thinks being able to be healed while in shroud is a perk. And thus their balance is according to that scale. While in reality its not the case for harbinger since shroud is not used for tanking, the playstyle of harbinger will be when u are in a superior position in a matchup, u will use shroud for damage and chase(nerfed cant do anymore) and getting healed while in superior position is useless and not a perk. They weigh this perk very heavily and this creates a lot of problems in regards to other sustain which actually matter like movement, stunbreaks, cooldown, counterpressure, lifesteal (all of them nerfed). Pushing the gameplay to hug healer to get sustain is the same as every single necro spec before and this mindset is completely garb for new espec. The movement skills are still nerfed in range and the icons are still the same. There is no hope the spec will not be fun, getting refund after confirming this on 28th. Dont care abt dog pve. Edited February 25, 2022 by XECOR.2814 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bale.3851 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 5 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said: They weigh this perk very heavily and this creates a lot of problems in regards to other sustain which actually matter like movement, stunbreaks, cooldown, counterpressure, lifesteal (all of them nerfed). Pushing the gameplay to hug healer to get sustain is the same as every single necro spec before and this mindset is completely garb for new espec. The movement skills are still nerfed in range and the icons are still the same. There is no hope the spec will not be fun, getting refund after confirming this on 28th. Dont care abt dog pve. Sadly o have to agree. There was enough time to revert the changes made in beta 4 with numerous pro players and this forum voicing their concerns. This resluted in .... nothing at all. We even got an indirect nerf to blood traitline which is now also no option anymore. All of this while the real problem "dmg absorbing shroud" is left untouched. I simply cant call this good game design... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysard.1364 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 7:25 PM, Uete.3805 said: From WP's new video it seems the life force to health regen is definitely gone T.T and that there's no new UI indication for the amount of blight on Harbi. Maybe they'll work on something like that eventually. This might be the first expac where I won't be using my Necro in the first play-through and it looks pretty much that Harbi in PVP is a no-no. If they don't do anything with how the last version of harb shroud worked it is actual insanity, they just butchered one of the most promising elite specs... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Krysard.1364 said: If they don't do anything with how the last version of harb shroud worked it is actual insanity, they just butchered one of the most promising elite specs... I dearly hope theyve done -something- to the Harbinger. I also worry for scourges and the pending whack of the nerfbat. But I expect I will be using scourge still for anything solo. The harbinger is definitely not suited for solo content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bale.3851 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 8 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said: But I expect I will be using scourge still for anything solo. The harbinger is definitely not suited for solo content. 🤣 The better question is "for what content is it suited?" 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Bale.3851 said: 🤣 The better question is "for what content is it suited?" 🤣 Anything group wise where the Harbinger wont get 1shot. Though I can well see that they will be completely unwanted in fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPT.7431 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 8 hours ago, Bale.3851 said: 🤣 The better question is "for what content is it suited?" 🤣 5 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said: Anything group wise where the Harbinger wont get 1shot. Though I can well see that they will be completely unwanted in fractals. Let's be honest here guys...Eles are squishy and people still play them and do well in Open World solos and grouped content xD A Harbinger in Ritualist gear has about 21k HP at full blight stack, that doesn't sound very squishy to me, specially in group contents xD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 49 minutes ago, StarPT.7431 said: Let's be honest here guys...Eles are squishy and people still play them and do well in Open World solos and grouped content xD A Harbinger in Ritualist gear has about 21k HP at full blight stack, that doesn't sound very squishy to me, specially in group contents xD You forget that Eles have tons of active defenses. Necros does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPT.7431 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said: You forget that Eles have tons of active defenses. Necros does not. Yet still people manage to solo stuff with ease in Open World and still relevant in group contents (specially Scourge)....I don't see Harbinger being any different. Edited February 27, 2022 by StarPT.7431 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bale.3851 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 10 hours ago, StarPT.7431 said: Yet still people manage to solo stuff with ease in Open World and still relevant in group contents (specially Scourge)....I don't see Harbinger being any different. The question isnt "can it be played?" because it surely can. I mean you can design a class consisting of purely auto attacks of all classes and it could still work in open world. Why? Because open world is a bad measure. If you are comparing high level performance of a class you need a high level environment. So the real question is "can it be played in any kind of high end content (WVW / SPVP / STRIKES / RAIDS / FRACTALS))". And the answer to that question is as we have seen so far an NO for all of these. Because other necro speccs are simply better and this is how meta works. Your party wants you or better forces you to play the best specc your class offers for the content you chose. And this is why harbinger is a let down right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Bale.3851 said: The question isnt "can it be played?" because it surely can. I mean you can design a class consisting of purely auto attacks of all classes and it could still work in open world. Why? Because open world is a bad measure. If you are comparing high level performance of a class you need a high level environment. So the real question is "can it be played in any kind of high end content (WVW / SPVP / STRIKES / RAIDS / FRACTALS))". And the answer to that question is as we have seen so far an NO for all of these. Because other necro speccs are simply better and this is how meta works. Your party wants you or better forces you to play the best specc your class offers for the content you chose. And this is why harbinger is a let down right now. And why the Harbinger's future depends on what Anet presents at release, or it wil be DoA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bale.3851 said: The question isnt "can it be played?" because it surely can. I mean you can design a class consisting of purely auto attacks of all classes and it could still work in open world. Why? Because open world is a bad measure. If you are comparing high level performance of a class you need a high level environment. So the real question is "can it be played in any kind of high end content (WVW / SPVP / STRIKES / RAIDS / FRACTALS))". Good thing that the answer to that is MOST things that are reasonably thought out builds can be played in any kind of high end content (WVW / SPVP / STRIKES / RAIDS / FRACTALS)) Quote And the answer to that question is as we have seen so far an NO for all of these. Because other necro speccs are simply better and this is how meta works. Your party wants you or better forces you to play the best specc your class offers for the content you chose. And this is why harbinger is a let down right now. If you won't be able to play Harb in those high end contents, then that's on you, not the game. Harb isn't a let down because it's not meta ... that's silly. The vast majority of things aren't meta and they can't be. I mean, if you are let down because Harb might not be meta, you are just being unreasonable. Edited February 28, 2022 by Obtena.7952 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bale.3851 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said: If you won't be able to play Harb in those high end contents, then you better team better. Harb isn't a let down because it's not meta ... that's silly. The vast majority of things aren't meta. It's ridiculous to expect specific things to be in the exceptional meta bucket. Ok sorry its my fault. I need to clarify for people who dont like to think that much. Lets say you are raiding and you need to pick a harbinger or a scourge. Which one has more value for your raid? 1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said: Good thing that the answer to that is MOST things that are reasonably thought out builds can be played in any kind of high end content (WVW / SPVP / STRIKES / RAIDS / FRACTALS)) This is true if you are raiding with friends or are the leader of a raid. If you are a random player joining a random group there is social pressure demanding you to play the most effective specc you can. Saying otherwise is a blant up lie to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Bale.3851 said: Ok sorry its my fault. I need to clarify for people who dont like to think that much. Lets say you are raiding and you need to pick a harbinger or a scourge. Which one has more value for your raid? I would never be in this position in the first place. That question isn't even relevant to how I play the game ... or many other people. What I value has nothing to do with what specs people play. Quote This is true if you are raiding with friends or are the leader of a raid. If you are a random player joining a random group there is social pressure demanding you to play the most effective specc you can. Saying otherwise is a blant up lie to yourself. True ... I'm not lying though ... if you are prevented from playing how you want, that's because of a choice you made, not how the game works. Edited February 28, 2022 by Obtena.7952 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Rune of Torment took a whack Superior Rune of Tormenting: The 6-piece bonus of this rune no longer heals you for each stack of torment you apply. Instead, it grants regeneration for 3 seconds when you apply torment to an enemy, with a 5-second internal cooldown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) If you thought they gutted necromancer in the past, Never have I've seen the level of nerf SO out of touched lmao. Edited February 28, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bale.3851 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said: I would never be in this position in the first place. That question isn't even relevant to how I play the game ... or many other people. What I value has nothing to do with what specs people play. Why doesnt it? Everytime you join a group arent there preference they want you to play? Like if you join a fractal grp in cm. They want a fb and not a support tempest. Thats what i mean with value. There is a meta. And some of the new classes as we seen them in beta 4 are far off from said meta. These 2 points are facts. So surely you can play whatever you like but at some point it can be frustrating cause you get denied in some content. That was my argument. And i further deducted this leads to float of specific speccs in end game content which is proofen by empiric numbers. So i guess we can agree to disagree on the meaning of value. Have fun with EoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said: If you thought they gutted necromancer in the past, Never have I've seen the level of nerf SO out of touched lmao. They really went with "You think Harbinger will have issues? We'll just nerf your other options to make it attractive!" And only in PvE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Bale.3851 said: Why doesnt it? Everytime you join a group arent there preference they want you to play? Nope, there isn't ... because I don't join groups that tell me how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianDK.8615 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Just now, Obtena.7952 said: Nope, there isn't ... because I don't join groups that tell me how to play. Anyone able to see if the harbinger is untouched since last beta? or the notes simply havent been added yet? the later I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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