Harbinger Feedback Thread [Merged]

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

Let's explain life force:

Life force is a "fuel" that the necromancer get from nearby death and through some specific skills and traits. This fuel fill the "LF pool" which have a capacity of 69% of the necromancer's Health pool.

 

Harbinger case:

The Harbinger have a max health pool that varie from 100% to 50%. It affect the the maximum capacity of the necromancer's LF pool but does not affect the raw amount of life force that this pool already have when you recover from blight while there can be "loss" of LF when you gain blight.

 

Thus, recovering from blight make it look like you "lose" LF while in fact it's just that you have 7590 LF point (100% LF at full blight - 11k HP) and this number of 7590 stay still if you don't build more LF when your LF pool grow due to blight being cleansed (it gradually go down to 50% LF because you still have 7590 while the LF pool capacity have grown to 15180 LF).

 

 

Indeed, i have to say it feels pretty ganky this way though. 

And because shroud is percentage based degration it is sort of a "loss" of life force.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

3 hours ago, hobotnicax.7918 said:

This espec is basically cannon fodder in WvW unless it goes condi bunker. It's only half decent in 1v1s when it can kite/spam condies from 900 range. In zergs it's meh as well.

Dueled some people playing it vs my soulbeast, and yes I know, they probably don't know yet how to really play it, and it was trully ez mode vs anything other than condi bunker.

All in all I don't see a real point to this class, it adds nothing new besides self HP nerf. All it is, is another pointless class spreading condi in WvW. 

Slow clap.

that is pretty incorrect.

we made it work pretty well yet. considering no proper zergfights been possible yet, can surely not be finally said, but it does its job pretty well, on a powerbuild. we even used two different power builds... not serious player brings condi memes into groupfights

 

as written before: 7 emblem of the avenger in roughly 5-6 hours (playtime 4 hours roughly since queues and takes time till u have any group together)

 

i actually like it on larger scale way more than on smaller scale. outside of the autos in shroud, and big bomb options are not fast. which is kitten for smaller scale, but good for zerg and blobscale. only reflects are dangerous, ergo maybe don't let a new player use pistol (which can be easy traded for anything, necro has good weapon choices)

 

so ye, largescale requires more testing, especially structured one.

 

besides, if u fought that class on your random soulbeast, that's basically a hardcounter to it due to blight mechanics it needs to get squishy and u have even higher pew pew range than it... i killed enough rangers on it yet, was also pretty easy. finally rangers cannot run away anymore, unlike from my scrouge lmfao

[Byronic.8947]

Hello! I am an ardent Harbinger lover with a lot of excitement for the spec and TWO suggestions to make:

 

1.     More interactive Elixirs with higher Boon uptimes

        As it stands, the Elixirs are fairly underwhelming. You push a button for a few very, very brief seconds of boon uptime, and that's it. They might be more fun if there was more interaction involved - some elixir throwing, perhaps?

        Also: boons. After the dev stream mentioned the possibility of Harbinger support builds, I was really looking forward to experimenting! As it stands, however, the Elixirs just don't do enough to compare with existing support specs. This is especially underwhelming when you consider that Elixirs also stack Blight, which means they cost to use. IMO, something as simple as "longer boon uptime" would make a boon support Harbinger build much more viable.

 

2.     Improve evades to complete the ranged-melee-range play loop

        Harbinger was clearly designed to be played at range, but includes not one but two gap-closers among its Shroud abilities. I really enjoy the flow this creates. Harbingers can pew-pew pistols at range, then activate Shroud and close the gap to fire off shroud 2 and 5 at point blank... but there's no good way to leave melee. Shroud 4 has evade, sure, but the stun at the end means it's more useful as a gap closer. IMO, Harbinger would flow much more smoothly if there was a more useful evade! Pew-pew at range; Shroud, gap close, 2 and 5; then evade and return to ranged combat. It would be such a seamless loop for a really dynamic flow of play.

       I have an easy suggestion for accomplishing this: Move shroud 4 daze to the beginning of the jump. This would make the 4 skill a much more effective evade. This way, you could daze enemies near you while also putting some space between you and them! It would also let Harbingers take advantage of the daze while still using shroud 4 as it was intended: for evading.

       Alternatively, on a hit, shroud 3 or 4 could a second ability that resets you to your starting position - much like Willbender Flash Combo/Repose, or Thief Shadowstep/Shadow Return. However, I find it a clunkier fix. The daze change seems a simpler and more natural solution.

[eThan.9503]

harbinger is good in PVE but elixir skills need work this class has high support potential it would me nice if we can share our LF healing with other player with a trait and boon duration is good but still need some work may be more towards support like I want to give more boons to my friends but that my problem I want to be a dedicated healer with harbinger like necro heal was not that great even with scourge I really like how every trail line has a use in harbinger next wvw i have say this will not work in wvw blight mechanics need nerf in wvw it too squishy don't get me wrong blight is a good mechanics but maybe its too much burden for on class where other classes has rang mobility and high dps 

[Atille.5047]

Quickness shroud trait working on proximity makes it terrible, as instead of your subgroup/party it slaps quickness on virtually anything as long as it's close. (That includes clones/phantasms, pets, minions)

DPS is way too loaded into shroud 1, 2 and pistol 2+scepter 3. Results in boring rotation. Lack of offhand is evident, as necro historically never had a good offhand before Scourge happened - I think it needs an offhand pistol too. 

Utilities themselves are unimpactful - 1-2 boons per button isn't really exciting, and they don't stand out from Engineer's elixirs with something extra or unique flavour - even Reaper's shouts did a twist and made them all offensive (despite all of them remaining bad to this day), however elixirs just didn't do much with the idea. Maybe if they could be used in Shroud for different offensive purpose they could be interesting, like glyphs?

Artistically unfinished. Character animations are heavily reused, shroud 4 even sounds like Daredevil's vault. Pistol animations are boring and unvaried, really not selling the whole "agile dark gunslinger" angle - effects as always are good (if a bit too thick on max blight), elixir icons are very samey-feeling with none of the necromancer flavor. Lack of new voicelines isn't fun too.

Overall, I think harbringer needs more work to really bring it out. Some numbers desperately require tweaking (but that's about to be expected, that's what betas are for after all), but so far it's unfinished state fails to make it feel distinct from just a roided up core necro. It simply needs more. 

[Wintermute.5408]

Say what you will about Scourge "rotations", at least it actively uses all its weapon and most shroud skills. 

[Ashamir.9574]

Played in PvE

 

The damage was good, but damage is never bad on a necro. I expected more of a support build, going by the resemblance to the engi. The pistols skills aren't bad, mechanically I couldn't find anything wrong with them... but they felt bland. Pewpew auto, pewpew damage, pewpew stun, it felt a lot like core engi did in the beginning - and I deleted 3 level 30ish engis before finally sticking with one in 2015.

 

The exilirs, admittedly, make it worse. They feel completely bland. The whole utility bar looks uniform, the symbols are almost identical. Their effects have no particular special feature that makes them stand out. Boons, boons, more boons. It was boring as hell to play.

 

The shroud was fun. It felt fast-paced, something you could hop in and  out of to gain some mobility, more damage or survival. It filled up naturaly too, no exessive spamming skills needed to get it back up. Reminded me a bit of playing reaper in the HoT beta. Reaper was more fun, but it had some of those "Ok, this is nice!" moments that I remember fondly.

 

From the 3 classes we could test this was by far the most disappointing for me. I'd take a Reaper or Scourge over this any day.

[TheHeretic.3529]

Lots of potential! Also some things that need adjusting:

 

The first minor trait makes Harbinger undesirable in WvW. I need shroud for damage but because of enemy siege and ranged attacks, I often have 0% Life Force by the time we get into an objective because it's automatically draining to heal me even though we have healers spamming (just depends on the trait ticking at the right time). I can see it being helpful in PvE but it's harmful in WvW.

Also, shroud damage is a lot of projectile attacks, which again is not good in organized WvW as a majority of it just gets reflected unless the enemy is already downed. 

 

 

[Cranky wo Coffee.5914]

PvE : The pistol seems, boring kind of like Engineer pistol. Pistol skills 1 and 2 could use a rework/tweak, I like pistol 3. I wish we had 1,200 range on pistol even if it was only the auto attack/ or if we trait for it. I don't like the fact that the only trait for the pistol is in the condi line. I like the blight mechanic but think it could scaled down a little for healing skill. I really don't see a purpose for elixirs at all unless I plan on going support which I would just go scourge. This spec feels like they indented to go all condition/support. I mean the other two spec are given to us with marauders gear and ours is given with carrion gear.  

I Think we suffer from our own success. I wish they would rework our class so core necro was condi, boonstrip, and /or minon master. Leave Reaper as the face tanking dps, Scourge be solely support/boons with heals( no condi/boon rips) and this spec could be just mid/long range power glass cannon( no suppport elixirs or condi line).  

[Metalhead.5273]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, he is right that GW2 balance/profession/e-specs are first and foremost meant for sPvP and should be balanced on this basis.

 

There is the classic PvPer delusion that ANet have catered mainly for PvE after they discarded ESL (but well, it's wrong and that can be ignored).

 

WoW not being a model for it's PvP isn't a wrong statement.

 

He is also right in saying that taking vitality on your gear/amulet/runeset is a good move, it give value to the master traits and will increase your survivability.

 

As it stand, Harbinger is pretty strong in small scale fight (sPvP) due to good damage, good sustain and good mobility. It likely won't become "meta" in WvW because zergs don't need what the spec offer. And it's fine in PvE because it got high damage and good offensive support (survivability doesn't matter when you got a healer behind you).

 

NB.: And personally I'm especially pleased by the fact that I have now access to 5 stacks of stab on a relatively short CD to do jumping puzzles in PvE (This alone is enough to make me like the spec).

Careful about the fact that calling WoW a bad example. WoW is a 20 years old MMORPG that stormed the world and passed it's crown to GW2 as one of the best MMORPG in the world. WoW is the base of everything you have now. And is the best example for pvp content in MMORPG succeeding. MMORPG is a role playing game that offers pvp content to it's players because they want to be multifaceted. Not.pvp.game.

 

Why there is a 1 new pvp map but 100 new PvE maps in 5 years then.

Where is the regular pvp oriented content of GW2 is a pvp game?

Every live event every new content that is coming is for PvE.

All gears and legendaries are tailored for PvE content.

Why PvE content is the first thing they advertise?

If it's pvp oriented why every pvp person I talk to think pvp is abandoned long time ago and balance never was there?

Why an average player does not talk about it's professional pvp teams and league matches?

When I tell people that actually gw2 pvp teams have known players everyone is surprised.

 

Sorry but I will not call a game %90 of it's community doesn't know and interested in pvp and doesn't get new pvp stuff regularly a pvp game.

Can you check gw2 advertisement page and tell me where it tells it's a pvp oriented game with PvE features? It doesn't. It advertises it's combat system massive open world and then says -we also offer for pvp for it's lovers too-.

Check kurtzpel for example, that's a Pvp oriented game. Only lobby, maybe some stories as well, and you grind your way through pvp. No open map. But a great combo and skill system, regular pvp balance patches. That's a pvp game.

 

It's not as simple as "if you need to sustain get vitality gear" seriously?! If you wear vitality you will lose DPS. But the whole lose from your healthpool system had to be rewarding you with DPS. If you gear vitality like people said you only get %10-15 bonus DPS which nobody will like to play because you still have to play with so little health pool for so little DPS boost. It takes %50 of your health pool.... If only you could read the other comments. IF ONLY. So I wouldn't have to explain. Well thieves and elementalist are squashy too why don't they gear up vitality stuff right?! According to your logic. You don't need DPS anyways right?! The whole lose HP pool for DPS was for nothing then?!

 

I do not know how harbinger will do in pvp and never said anything about it. I am only talking about pve.

 

 

[hobotnicax.7918]

1 hour ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

that is pretty incorrect.

we made it work pretty well yet. considering no proper zergfights been possible yet, can surely not be finally said, but it does its job pretty well, on a powerbuild. we even used two different power builds... not serious player brings condi memes into groupfights

 

as written before: 7 emblem of the avenger in roughly 5-6 hours (playtime 4 hours roughly since queues and takes time till u have any group together)

 

i actually like it on larger scale way more than on smaller scale. outside of the autos in shroud, and big bomb options are not fast. which is kitten for smaller scale, but good for zerg and blobscale. only reflects are dangerous, ergo maybe don't let a new player use pistol (which can be easy traded for anything, necro has good weapon choices)

 

so ye, largescale requires more testing, especially structured one.

 

besides, if u fought that class on your random soulbeast, that's basically a hardcounter to it due to blight mechanics it needs to get squishy and u have even higher pew pew range than it... i killed enough rangers on it yet, was also pretty easy. finally rangers cannot run away anymore, unlike from my scrouge lmfao

Its meh in zergs.

Also, who said I pew pew on my soulbeast?

[Aetheldrake.6395]

I think it's a good change of pace from normal necros, but it seems people are mentally having issues accepting that it isn't the same. That it won't be super tanky (even though it still can be).  It was literally called high risk high reward on the stream but there isn't really that much risk unless you build full glass cannon? In pvp ive heard of people doing a 1v2 and 1v3 sometimes as harb. 

 

I played it for a while in Southsun cove and it did pretty decently against even that champion karka camp event. It can be hard to keep life force up but that's because it constantly drains to keep your hp up. I felt that signet healing ability was fairly more useful than the elixir. For the elixirs I would use the one with might and fury and the one with quickness and then the elite elixir before doing a burst in shroud. With full diviners stats, it felt pretty good. The boons lasted almost twice as long and dps felt decent. 

 

For traits I used death, 3 3 2. Soul reaping 1 1 3. And harbinger 1 3 2. Full diviner stats. Runes of ogre I think, summoned the rock dog. Sigil of force and leeching. 

 

With pistol focus, this gave me pretty decent survive from the super quick high gain of carapace, some power from carapace, high vulnerability on enemy, some condition control, pulsing protection easy, more damage boost from soul barbs since we don't stay in shroud forever, the typical crit and crit damage in shroud, and finally with the diviner stats I could have 3.5seconds of aoe quickness pulsing from shroud. Thanks to the 9something seconds of boons from the elite elixir and thanks to diviner nearly doubling their duration to these 9 seconds, it feels like a berserker type of build that isn't *too* crazy. But if I take the trait that shares the elixirs instead of the pistol trait, it might even be considered to be really good. Pulsing quickness and dropping 9 seconds of ALL boons to ALL close proximity allies while not being entirely unkillable but still decently tanky AND actually having drawbacks (blight)? This feels like a strong but actually fair design for power. It's nice to have a necro NOT be an unkillable stereotypical necro. 

 

I did not try condition build at all. I don't really care for condition builds at all so I won't say anything unfair or biased about it 😄

 

Also I'm not that picky unless it's about elementalist (then I'm the absolutely most pickiest little snob sorry not sorry) so I think I can be pretty fair and unbiased about this. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Aetheldrake.6395
Cuz

[Excursion.9752]

Game Mode: Open World (will do other modes once I establish how I want to play the class)

Time Spent: 3 hours

Gear:  All Viper

Runes: Undead (personally I would have tried some other things but this was from the runes given in boxes)

Sigils: Force/Earth

Build: Blood Magic 3,3,2  Soul Reaping 3,1,1 Harbinger 3,3,3

Utilities: Elixir of Promise, Blood Is Power, Spectral Walk, (switched this a lot but mostly enjoyed spectral grasp), plaguelands

 

I found that taking things one on one was way to easy and I would kill things to quickly so I quickly moved into congested areas where I could pull groups of mobs to make the fight a little more unstable. Nothing I fought put me to the ground, I did come close one or two times. 

 

I started using this combo and it made for some pretty fun times.

Spectral walk - Voracious Arc - Spectral Grasp if other mobs were around if not skip - Devouring Cut - Vital Draw - Dark Barrage - Tainted Bolts - If things were still alive then I would use Blood Is Power then spectral walk again to get away from the pressure then pop Elixir of Promise to heal and gather some life force and blight.  Then range the targets with pistol and staff until I can enter shroud again.

 

I read in many places that life force was a problem. I never had a problem if anything I was overflowing with life force. So if you are having problems with that please try the build above.

 

I really appreciated the mobility and the combos I could make with it. I had a fun playing the class. Jumping and dashing around made for a very enjoyable experience. 

 

What felt off to me was the amount of vulnerability to CC while in shroud. Having no way to control this seems like an oversight or perhaps I am missing something. 

 

Suggestions the Harbinger's Aura needs to be larger. Elixir's should have separate effects while in shroud. This would give a benefit to having them equipped like a stun break perhaps? Maybe some damage mitigation like protection. I am imaging Elixirs being used out of shroud being used for damage and while in shroud more defensive. Think  Druid glyph's.

 

Things that didn't matter to me... Blight overall I knew it was there but I didn't care how much I had or how much life it took. In my opinion going into shroud should just take a flat percentage away of your health and cause more damage the more stacks you have. This would require a rework of the adept trait line but  I would feel better knowing what I was loosing rather than it calculating on the fly like it does now. I am watching the enemy that I am attacking not my health bar change  dynamically. It just seemed fruitless to me. Feels like Blight is just a synonym for might with health loss.

[Dadnir.5038]

36 minutes ago, Metalhead.5273 said:

Why there is a 1 new pvp map but 100 new PvE maps in 5 years then.

Where is the regular pvp oriented content of GW2 is a pvp game?

Every live event every new content that is coming is for PvE.

All gears and legendaries are tailored for PvE content.

Why PvE content is the first thing they advertise?

If it's pvp oriented why every pvp person I talk to think pvp is abandoned long time ago and balance never was there?

Why an average player does not talk about it's professional pvp teams and league matches?

When I tell people that actually gw2 pvp teams have known players everyone is surprised.

This is not the thread to talk about that so I won't be long: GW2 devs introduced a lot more PvP content than what you think in 5 years. sPvP itself is but a fraction of GW2 PvP even if the devs spend a lot of time to make balance tweak to please a sPvP community which is quick to take and forget. You think that they did not talk about PvP content when they advertised EoD? I wouldn't be sure, I'd be ready to bet that you'll get PvP element within the element they presented like fishing competition or boat races (because yes as long as players are put against each other it's "PvP").

Edited August 18, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[Alchimist.4738]

While it has some fun aspects to it, mainly balancing Blight, the Harbinger shroud, and the pistol, it has at the same time some really bland and frankly boring traits and utility.

 

I'd love to see the elixirs gaining different effects based on Blight threshold, similarly how Holosmith's Exceed skills get new abilities based on the Heat threshold, it doesn't have to be crazy but simple abilities such as spawning a bone minion while above X Blight, or spawning a poison cloud, so on and so forth. It would make elixirs more fun, but would also buff them a little bit, because they seem weak with what I've played so far, but it'd also give you better rewards for the risk you take.

 

Similarly it might be a way to also balance the Harbinger shroud skills a little bit more, by making them slightly stronger than what they currently are at high Blight, but weaker at lower Blight.

 

In summary, it's fun to play despite some bland traits/utilities, I'd love to see more interaction with Blight, similar to what Holosmith get with Exceed skills and Heat.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

1 hour ago, hobotnicax.7918 said:

Its meh in zergs.

Also, who said I pew pew on my soulbeast?

idk why u want the same answers ten times, but it's simply something different. farming zerg-clouds or cloudblobs was very easy with it. and if i think about a bubblechain + harbinger shourd 5 engages, that sounds killermode. it's a bit like a offensemode chrono (which doesn't exist, as chrono is only support and far from this mobile or dmg dealing on a AoE scale)

 

i just assumed that, it's not like there's many options. soulbeast simply isn't doing much for Wvw, outside of smallscale. i see that every day again. and u said u played 1v1 against harbingers if i understand that right, so i am sure u run sth like axe/axe or GS + longbow. only very few soulbeast run anything else.

[Xanadrine.4352]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:02 PM, LucianDK.8615 said:

 

I can echo that. The elixirs needs to go back to the drawing board. Plus they are inferior to engineer elixirs which can be thrown.

Same the elixirs are are an issue. Outside of the elite elix the rest kinda fall flat, not keen on the heal elixir, better to take other heal options, the heal is weak and slow. I will hit up the golem tonight but so far it feels really squishy, i mean yeah i could stack vit gear but that would be useless in fracts raids. Maybe make the heals a little quicker and bigger. Testing damage tonight but I think the damage will be fine in vipers.  

[Teratus.2859]

I give it a little go out of curiosity and because I wanted to test out a little build I was thinking about.
I still don't care much for the theme and Necros using a Pistol but the experience was still quite fun.

I decided to go with a full Zealot's stat Minion Master Harbinger using a Pistol/Dagger and Dagger/Warhorn combo.
I was running Blood and Death magic traits with it for as much sustain and carapace defence as possible.
Basically after hearing how squishy the class was I wanted to see what I could do to play against that.
Took it straight into HoT and started messing about with HP bosses, other players kept getting involved so there were no true solo kills but I had a good few mostly solo fights with the Itzel Hero Point in Verdant Brink and the Harbinger held it's own pretty good against it.

Naturally the spec will be nerfed a bit by the time EoD comes out but I'm a bit more interested in giving this spec a proper go now even if I still dislike the theme of it.

[Legalut.6814]

I don't know if I'm alone in here or not. But I think Harbringer could give more feedback in how blight work and in it's effect.

 

I'm not talking about effect, as I'm sure that if you see the raw numbers I'm sure the effect is there, but seeing blight just a number under my HP and as a purple icon, I don't FEEL the effects themself.

 

With the new utility skills being self buffs with vials and blight giving so little visual feedback, it does make the elite spec feel less impactful than the previous ones. I'm not asking for more flashy skills but more of an UI or effect to comunicate better it's mechanics.

 

One idea could be instead of the purple icon add an UI element like the druids astral force or holosmith heat. Seeing a visual queue rather than a number would give better feedback on how much blight you're holding and how potent it may be if particle effects are added to the UI.

 

Another could be instead of just showing how much health you're missing as a number, you can cover a portion of the lower half of the health globe in a dark/green color to give a visual aid to see how much health you're giving away, like a reverse barrier effect. I don't know if I'm alone this, but processing a shape is easier than numbers, as is easy to read for me that a third of my health globe is missing instead of reading the number to process the ammount.

 

I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I do believe the main issue with the elite is how it feel to play for the most part, also sorry if I made any typos, english is not my native language.

[Xanadrine.4352]

Another thing, power is just fail on HB. Condi way outclasses it, but thats no surprise seeing how just about every proff is better in condi. Need to seriously bring power up to par, without nerfing condi. 

[noiwk.2760]

ok... to be honest.. this class is kinda very strong tanky class ! 
its funny tho that the class is entirely different than intended ...  

the issues are not about this class being bad cause its not.. pwoer very is quite strong.. the issue is.. that you basically almost never want to go on shroud?   basically the constant regen is better ...  and also pistol? trash weapon..  lack power damage to be used.. i play it with axe + focus and dagger dagger  insane healing..  the issue tho is its kinda like playing core power necro just even more boring cause no shroud and more tanky. 

[noiwk.2760]

1 minute ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Another thing, power is just fail on HB. Condi way outclasses it, but thats no surprise seeing how just about every proff is better in condi. Need to seriously bring power up to par, without nerfing condi. 

i agree and disagree at same time..  i just did some games to test in pvp...   power with soul reaping and blood magic is quite op 

[Xanadrine.4352]

21 hours ago, Wintermute.5408 said:

I'm talking about PVE. I'm too incompetent at PVP to make any claims there. In fractals damage hab will be dead. Literally, most of the time.

Yeah in full viper HB was killed quite a lot in fracts pretty fast. 

 

21 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Well considering I just replied to you in the other thread that it is benching 43k dps, I think you know where the number is. 

 

As for fractals? Look if eles can spend years playing glass cannon then you can too. Worst case just take trailblazer pieces. I don't have the numbers but on scourge at least, the difference is around 7-8% dps. That is with all trailblazer, so just replace as you see fit and get more comfortable. If you can't do 43k dps with full viper then do 40k dps with trailblazer but higher base hp. boohoo

43k on a golem is not real world play, HB dont play like an ele at all. In a scenario in CMs or raids HB is not going to pull 43k no where near wait till SC gets it in boss fights or cms

[Xanadrine.4352]

8 minutes ago, noiwk.2760 said:

i agree and disagree at same time..  i just did some games to test in pvp...   power with soul reaping and blood magic is quite op 

I will try that combo tonight , what gear did you use? Pure zerk? Also how was survivability in that spec against other players? 

[Warscythes.9307]

11 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Yeah in full viper HB was killed quite a lot in fracts pretty fast. 

 

43k on a golem is not real world play, HB dont play like an ele at all. In a scenario in CMs or raids HB is not going to pull 43k no where near wait till SC gets it in boss fights or cms

I know 43k is not realistic, is called a benchmark for a reason. You use it as a metric to compare it to the others and have a general idea.

 

Yes HB does not play like Ele at all, it is much easier and actually do those rotation in a real fight scenario. Ele has a high requirement on alacrity and any different attunement to say water requires a much higher down time to get back to dps rotation. The benchmark for HB is unironically much easier to pull off compared to ele. Your biggest concern is taking damage which means your LF drains to heal you, so your shroud timer is likely to be lower as a result but that is minimal because you can still get off the shroud 2 you need. People already ran raids with HB, you can just lookup teapot's videos. It works fine.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Warscythes.9307