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Organizing all the instanced content into one coherent system would make for a great update.


Tatwi.3562

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The last time I was into dungeons and raids when WotLK was the current xpac for WoW, whenever the farts that was... I healed hundreds of 5 mans, in large part because the system to do so was easy to use. It was essentially the same thing as GW2's sPvP queue (click button, enter queue, do something else for a while, click button, do the dungeon). Is that ideal? Probably not, but at least it made sense and it respected my time as a human being. "Time is money, friend!"

 

Having owned GW2 since 2012, I have done exactly 2 dungeons, 0 raids, and 1 each of those DRMs for the story. 

 

Why haven't I done more of this instanced content?

 

  1. I am old and busy and I have no desire to entertain other people's children. I have no use for online communities and the expectations that come along with them. I'm not going to be there on "raid night" or whatever the kids are calling it now. However, that's what's so great about the rest of GW2, there's almost always other players around who are doing the same stuff I am doing and everything is setup as co-op by default - no schedules, lame politics, or obnoxious people to grudgingly tolerate during my entertainment time.
  2. You're dungeon game play systems are a mish mash of bizarreness that I simply can't be bothered to unravel. What's a "fractal" and why do I care? Know what, I don't care. Good enough for me! I have more important, "standing around in Caledon Forest while pondering the nature of the universe", to do...

 

The DRM system, with its hub in the Eye of the North, is well organized and the dungeons themselves make sense, because they are directly tied to delivering the story. Kudos. Perhaps you could expand that concept to include all of the dungeons/raids/whatever in, at the very least, a UI page that explains what they are and also lays them out in a progression based upon their difficulty.

 

TL:DR:  ArenaNet, I'm telling you that I can't be bothered to spend my limited time on this Earth making sense of your stuff, so I have spent the better part of a decade ignoring it. If that's not cool with you, then it's time to herd your kittens and "make sense".

 

Ps. Thanks for the fishing though. That I will do!

Pps. No joke. 🙃

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If you can't be bothered to read up online or watch a 5 minute video about any of the aforementioned instanced content stuff, then it clearly isn't content that you are looking forward to.

 

Raids, Dungeons and Fractals contribute to the story already. Fractals and Raids have literally areas dedicated to them.

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  • 1 month later...

I’d even go a step further, to suggest all endgame content be “the same” in the sense that it is all just one system. Fractals, dungeons, strikes raids…they’re all the same kind of content shrouded in an opaque fog of different currencies and reward systems that give us the perception that it’s somehow different…when it’s really not different.

 

for example what is the only difference between a fractal and a raid other than their party size and their reward system? The two things should just be the same thing and make party/reward/difficulty scaling dynamic so that players can 10 man raid a fractal to get 10 man rewards…and players could do a 5 man raid to get 5 man rewards at fractal difficulty…and of course do the same with every other endgame piece of content.
 

Anyway, yes I think it would be more interesting to have all these systems no separate but aggregate so that the community can be more centralized and more organized…and alienate less people.

Edited by JusticeRetroHunter.7684
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On 8/17/2021 at 10:41 AM, Tatwi.3562 said:

I am old and busy and I have no desire to entertain other people's children. I have no use for online communities and the expectations that come along with them. I'm not going to be there on "raid night" or whatever the kids are calling it now.

People PuG raids and strikes all the time (but pugging raids means you must have experience first - generally, training runs are very rare and can be difficult to organize depending on when you play). The first part of your statement confuses me as to why you're playing an MMO. I've proposed many times that they fuse the different systems. So initially I agreed with your post, but reading through it, it's just not well thought out.

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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I fully agree with the OP. I used to advocate for LFD/LFR like system but maybe that is not the best solution. Still Anet could implement massive QOL solutions here. Right now every iteration of group content is different and while veterans are used to it, it is super confusing at the start. 

First and foremost they should update the LFG UI. This is the core system in GW2 for finding groups. And it is actually fine at it's core because besides raids, statics are not really required, you can pug anything. Right now LFG is hidden under "Contacts and LFG" and you can't even assign a direct shortcut to it. Like it is intentionally hidden while it should be one of the first things introduced to a player in a mmo environment. There are many many QOL suggestions for LFG around so I won't go into that. But in short, make it visible, make it user friendly, introduce it to players early on and encourage them to group through it early (for story instances, low level dungeons, just general open world stuff).

All instances should have the same grouping system and let players enter an instance from anywhere in the world. I suggested this often and really don't understand why some players are against it. Having to go to different hub for each type is annoying, additional loading screens are annoying and just take time. And if you want to change character in between runs, you have to go through loading screens again. Don't waste players' time, this is a casual game which means players value time.

Suggesting players to watch a video just to learn how to enter an instance and learn it's quirks is just silly. It screams bad design. Accessibility is everything. If you want to sell something to players, and this is at the end what it comes down to - getting players into content, so they stay longer, make it accessible. They don't need to invent anything here, we have had grouping systems for online play since the 90s and they were better then what GW2 has to offer today. Good games will develop UI over time to players' needs. Anet doesn't do that, every new system is just bloating everything.

OP if you are interested in group content go for Fractals. The LFG is actually nicely organised, fractals are really fun and offer the most content of them all. Most of them are short. And they have clear difficulty scaling, something for everyone.  If you can't be bothered by different systems and want the best one with most content, go for fractals.

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On 10/1/2021 at 4:31 PM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

for example what is the only difference between a fractal and a raid other than their party size and their reward system? The two things should just be the same thing and make party/reward/difficulty scaling dynamic so that players can 10 man raid a fractal to get 10 man rewards…and players could do a 5 man raid to get 5 man rewards at fractal difficulty…and of course do the same with every other endgame piece of content.

Raids; No real gear requirement to acquire all rewards (Can be done in literal white gear as long as you've got a cohesive build). 
Fractals; Ramping gear requirement to get more rewards.
Raids; built with a harder trinity in mind (Druid and Tempest dropped with HoT which gave way to an actual dedicated healer class)
Fractals; balanced around having no dedicated healer

This is not to say that I don't like your idea; using the dynamic scaling system that's in the open world for instanced endgame content would actually be pretty neat.

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6 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Raids; No real gear requirement to acquire all rewards (Can be done in literal white gear as long as you've got a cohesive build). 
Fractals; Ramping gear requirement to get more rewards.

 

 

What I’m saying is that, this isn’t a “real” thing. It’s an artificial construct that’s implemented to give you the illusion that it’s different when it’s not. You can just take away the gear/reward treadmill tomorrow and the dynamic for setting up groups doesn’t change. 


likewise with the difference between raid balance and fractal balance…fractals and raids can both be done without healers…they can also both be done with healers. I really don’t think there is much of a balance difference between the two. In fact the newer fractal bosses really are as difficult as raids if not more so (I’ve had easier time fighting raid bosses than fractal bosses.)

 

this balance difference can’t really be proven to exist either. I don’t think it is Anets intention to do fractals without a healer…it just turned out that way and also I think the content is hard enough to play it with a healer.
 

The only concrete difference we know for sure is a fact is the party size and the pseudo progression system. those things can be amalgamated or phased out because all they do is limit and keep separate modes that aren’t really that different. 
 

Strikes are also similar to raids and fractals…except it’s only 1 boss…same reward structure, less difficultly. It’s almost exactly like a raid.

 

so ya dynamic scaling makes sense when all these things are all rather similar…of course the open world scaling is the lazy way to scale combat difficulty…I think if they spent just a little bit of time and effort to make the difficulty scale in a way that makes sense (not just making hp sponges) all those different systems can be combined. It would also kinda just give us more content because then raiders will play dungeons as raids…fractalers will play raids as if they are fractals…the different groups of people intermingle and learn all the encounters…it just makes sense from a player learning perspective.

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While I agree with OP's sentiment that instanced content is currently a bit disorganized, OP also makes it sound a lot harder to get into fractals and dungeons than it really is. Fractals also have a hub, and had that hub long before anything else in this game did.

Frankly if you ignored instanced content for a decade and couldn't figure these (admittedly un-ideal, but still pretty easy) systems out... what's the problem? You've done fine without them. If you do actually want to get into them (which is what it sounds like), then eh. Do the minimal amount of work required to get into them; no out-of-game resources necessary. Read your mails, read your tooltips, done.

Raids are another beast entirely, and I'm totally in agreement with OP there. I'm not even that old, just not "one of the kids" anymore. I don't have the patience to actually sign up for raids and be held accountable to show up for raid nights. I'm also not willing to sift through the garbage that is currently the PUG raiding scene in NA. There's too much overhead in terms of getting started, compared to the pace of rewards. I did a few clears just to do them, but I have no interest in keeping up with raids (if we're even going to ever see more of them, ever). I'll farm my last set of legendary armors from pvp, and will not touch raids again unless they introduce mastery points for them that I need to chase.

Edited by voltaicbore.8012
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Raids and fractals have a hub. You access all of them from the hub. You return to the hub when done. You can spend reward currencies at the hub, too.

A barest minimum of engagement was needed to at least show you have an interest in the content, OP, and you failed this most basic step.

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