Elite Specialization Lore Suggestion

[LukaBre.8621]

Considering that the specs are still being tied into the lore of the world we're going in, it would be cool to see another step up from PoF regarding their lore. HoT specs didnt have many ties with the jungle itself which is fine as it was the new system at a time. PoF had a quite nice step up where we could talk to NPCs and learn about the specs (spellbreaker story was one of my favs at a time for sure). Maybe its time for another level?

 

Here's an example that could be cool addition to make the elite spec itself feel more relatable compared to spending 250 pts the moment we hop in the game without ever visiting the place (in this case Cantha) at all.

 

Lock it behind some sort of a 'knowledge-exploration' wall.

Lets take the role of a guardian for example, fresh dragonhunter coming to Cantha. Before we can swap to Willbender, it would be nice to have us learn something about Willbenders through the game itself. Books, NPCs, hearts, even instances can explain the story of Willbenders before we're able to master their techniques. (I would dare to say make some collections but I know that some people might see it as 'exhausting'). The lock itself doesnt have to be huge, maybe it can be done in 1 go (in case of the instance) or several tiers (4 perhaps in case there's a mini collection) before we are able to reach that final tear when we can learn all traits/skills.

 

Finally, to ease it up - this progress should be account-wide. If we complete the instance/achievement/collection/whatever we call it on one character - any next character of the same class would have a prompt saying something like 'i already saw this - skip' so we can have that small QoL element in that place.

[Lyssia.4637]

No, no, no!  

 

NO!

 

I do not want to learn the lore.  When I do want to learn the lore, I am perfectly happy reading it in the wiki, or the books, or asking about it here.  I do not want to be forced to listen to endless NPCs talk endlessly in bad dialog when all I want to do is unlock the spec for WvW, or to get through a mission, or to help out a guildmate.  I ABSOLUTELY do not want to have to watch MORE cinematics that seem sadistically designed to make sure I can't actually play after I see one, because they've made me so motion sick!  It's bad enough that I can't do the jumping puzzles and have to break after half the mission cinematics as it is!

 

Seriously, NO!  If I could trust it to be non-intrusive, quick, and interesting, that would be one thing.  But PLEASE, just let us get the spec.  Do not play stupid games with me to get it.  Make lore and training purely optional, the way they already are in places.  Give us an achievement or a special skin or something if we bother with it.  But please, do NOT make it mandatory!

 

There is plenty of collections for armor, and I'm sure they'll make more for EoD.  Leave the specs alone.

[Telgum.6071]

I wouldn't mind, but the average player is not as interested as you may think in lore and research (hence the comment above). In fact I know very few loremongers in comparison to the amount of players that only want to play and nothing else.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[LukaBre.8621]

1 hour ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

No, no, no!  

 

NO!

 

I do not want to learn the lore.  When I do want to learn the lore, I am perfectly happy reading it in the wiki, or the books, or asking about it here.  I do not want to be forced to listen to endless NPCs talk endlessly in bad dialog when all I want to do is unlock the spec for WvW, or to get through a mission, or to help out a guildmate.  I ABSOLUTELY do not want to have to watch MORE cinematics that seem sadistically designed to make sure I can't actually play after I see one, because they've made me so motion sick!  It's bad enough that I can't do the jumping puzzles and have to break after half the mission cinematics as it is!

 

Seriously, NO!  If I could trust it to be non-intrusive, quick, and interesting, that would be one thing.  But PLEASE, just let us get the spec.  Do not play stupid games with me to get it.  Make lore and training purely optional, the way they already are in places.  Give us an achievement or a special skin or something if we bother with it.  But please, do NOT make it mandatory!

 

There is plenty of collections for armor, and I'm sure they'll make more for EoD.  Leave the specs alone.

 

After all the stuff you've written here I'm kinda wondering if you're in the proper game to begin with, my friend. I guess it's because you prefer more of the competitive playstyle (you mentioning WvW) but I cant quite understand all the stuff you mentioned.

 

Also, I did mention that it could be in a form of a short instance and skippable afterwards. I never said we need a skyscale-long timegated collection just to unlock the spec. GW2 is heavily lore/story-driven game (shown by their attention to living world seasons compared to the competitive content) so I'm looking from that perspective - it would bring up more flavor and would make specs themselves more 'relatable'.

[Ultramex.1506]

I'm fine with more lore about Elite spec just let us unlock the spec first then, if we choose to, do an achievement to learn more about. I already have 9 chars with 250 HPs ready to unlock, I want them right now not later, thanks!

[Lyssia.4637]

My problem isn't with lore or story itself.  It's not even with the idea itself in itself; it's that I don't trust Anet to implement it.

 

I loved the story in GW1, and while this is purely my own opinion, I have from the start been hugely disappointed with the way story was implemented in GW2.  The pacing is horrific, destroys tension and the dialog is terrible, particularly compared with GW1.  (At least until GW:EN)  The living season stories - not even the story itself, the way it's implemented, with bad dialog and what feels like random, pointless instances (was there a real point at all to huge Taimei and the holographic destroyers in LS3??) - are, again in my opinion, even worse.  I love playing open world, I've recently come to love competitive play, but there's already a great deal already gated behind the story, including mastery lines and entire sections of the map.   Much of the time I've run into lore in this game, it's in the form of scavenger hunts for pages in books, and that seems another entirely pointless way to destroy a story that might otherwise be well-told.  The pages are often found out of order, they're in places where you have to do jumping puzzles or search out weird places to find them, and I almost never get to actually read the pages when I find them because something is trying to kill me.  As a collection achievement, that's fine; and I've had some fun with some of those, despite my difficulties.  But for learning lore, it's pointless.  The only way to follow what is going on in those cases is to wait until you've collected everything and then read the book in game.  By that time, if I'm actually interested, I've lost patience and pulled up the wiki to read it in order.

 

The elite specs are huge in terms of functionality.  There will already be a story, and if it's done properly, the lore for the specs SHOULD be in there already; rather like the start of HoT and the Revenant.  If it's not already there, than gating it behind more clunky and inefficient methods like collection of journals is pointless.  Putting it in an extra instance is simply making it that much more tedious to get to something that will have a huge effect on how you play, not just the expansion, but other aspects of the game as well (such as competitive play).  For what?  That instance should have been built into the main story from the start, shouldn't it?  That's the place where the people who are interested in that kind of thing might logically expect to find it.

 

I'm not taking offense, since I'm assuming you didn't mean any, but... yes, GW2 is the "proper game" for me, since the strength of GW2 - and the only reason I do play it, given that, contrary to your impression, I prefer story-driven games - is that it can be played loosely and without too much focus on any one aspect of it, including the lore.  I play for the open world,  I play competitively, I play to play with others, I play for nostalgia.  Why should I HAVE to play through the lore, especially given that I'm not forced to do that for any of the other specs?  Frankly, gating it behind an instance is akin to that old cartoon of the poet holding a gun on the audience so they'll listen to his work.  If the story is actually good, I'll play it.  If the instance is fun, I'll do it.  Gating the specs behind it is too much an unnecessary diversion from the way they've handled the specs in the past.

 

Just my opinion, of course.  Though if they DO go that direction, especially if they make it a collection achievement, I think I'll take your advice and be done with the game.

[Rogue.8235]

3 hours ago, LukaBre.8621 said:

Considering that the specs are still being tied into the lore of the world we're going in, it would be cool to see another step up from PoF regarding their lore. HoT specs didnt have many ties with the jungle itself which is fine as it was the new system at a time. PoF had a quite nice step up where we could talk to NPCs and learn about the specs (spellbreaker story was one of my favs at a time for sure). Maybe its time for another level?

 

I'm not sure about additional barriers to being able to play the elite specializations, but I do like the idea in essence.

 

You immediately reminded me of of when I first started playing GW1 factions.  One thing I enjoyed was the perspective of all the profession trainers in Shing Jea as you were doing your quests.  It was something you can fly through if you're not into lore, but could still take the time to appreciate if you are into lore.  It was really neat to see how the personalities of these professions came into character and how they view one another.

 

It'd be awesome if something similar was implemented in EoD.  Something that rode alongside the story to be ignored or enjoyed at at the player's whim.

[LukaBre.8621]

1 hour ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

My problem isn't with lore or story itself.  It's not even with the idea itself in itself; it's that I don't trust Anet to implement it.

 

I loved the story in GW1, and while this is purely my own opinion, I have from the start been hugely disappointed with the way story was implemented in GW2.  The pacing is horrific, destroys tension and the dialog is terrible, particularly compared with GW1.  (At least until GW:EN)  The living season stories - not even the story itself, the way it's implemented, with bad dialog and what feels like random, pointless instances (was there a real point at all to huge Taimei and the holographic destroyers in LS3??) - are, again in my opinion, even worse.  I love playing open world, I've recently come to love competitive play, but there's already a great deal already gated behind the story, including mastery lines and entire sections of the map.   Much of the time I've run into lore in this game, it's in the form of scavenger hunts for pages in books, and that seems another entirely pointless way to destroy a story that might otherwise be well-told.  The pages are often found out of order, they're in places where you have to do jumping puzzles or search out weird places to find them, and I almost never get to actually read the pages when I find them because something is trying to kill me.  As a collection achievement, that's fine; and I've had some fun with some of those, despite my difficulties.  But for learning lore, it's pointless.  The only way to follow what is going on in those cases is to wait until you've collected everything and then read the book in game.  By that time, if I'm actually interested, I've lost patience and pulled up the wiki to read it in order.

 

Eh understandable, agreed to disagree on this one. I had quite the opposite experience as I have a feeling that GW2 storytelling kept my interest more compared to the GW1.

 

1 hour ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

The elite specs are huge in terms of functionality.  There will already be a story, and if it's done properly, the lore for the specs SHOULD be in there already; rather like the start of HoT and the Revenant.  If it's not already there, than gating it behind more clunky and inefficient methods like collection of journals is pointless.  Putting it in an extra instance is simply making it that much more tedious to get to something that will have a huge effect on how you play, not just the expansion, but other aspects of the game as well (such as competitive play).  For what?  That instance should have been built into the main story from the start, shouldn't it?  That's the place where the people who are interested in that kind of thing might logically expect to find it.

 

Revenant is a good example and i completely forgot about that. The whole class has been inserted into the story in an awesome way as it made sense. The reason I would like to see the more lore implementation for specs is because I notice that they are being affected with 'new Cantha'. Harbinger for example seems like its purely made for jade magic tech. So I would personally like more of that. The suggestion of locking it behind an instance or something was purely for the roleplaying purpose as it made more sense. Maybe WvW/PvP content could be divided for that matter as the skills already are? 

 

1 hour ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

 

I'm not taking offense, since I'm assuming you didn't mean any, but... yes, GW2 is the "proper game" for me, since the strength of GW2 - and the only reason I do play it, given that, contrary to your impression, I prefer story-driven games - is that it can be played loosely and without too much focus on any one aspect of it, including the lore.  I play for the open world,  I play competitively, I play to play with others, I play for nostalgia.  Why should I HAVE to play through the lore, especially given that I'm not forced to do that for any of the other specs?  Frankly, gating it behind an instance is akin to that old cartoon of the poet holding a gun on the audience so they'll listen to his work.  If the story is actually good, I'll play it.  If the instance is fun, I'll do it.  Gating the specs behind it is too much an unnecessary diversion from the way they've handled the specs in the past.

 

Just my opinion, of course.  Though if they DO go that direction, especially if they make it a collection achievement, I think I'll take your advice and be done with the game.

 

No offense meant at all with that line, its just that there was a huge list of rant-like arguments back there, so I just got the feeling that you're not quite enjoying it but I understand it more now. Same argument for 'why do i have to do it?' could be made for the skill points themselves. If the game requires you to get through the hero points and stuff, why not add a small instance for the lore sake and to make more sense with it. For the sake of the folks who prepare 250 pts in advance, that instance could be on the beginning - you start the spec, do the 10 min instance and unlock it afterwards. I would honestly be fine even with that. Would make the world richer for sure.

[mindcircus.1506]

3 hours ago, LukaBre.8621 said:

 

After all the stuff you've written here I'm kinda wondering if you're in the proper game to begin with, my friend. I guess it's because you prefer more of the competitive playstyle (you mentioning WvW) but I cant quite understand all the stuff you mentioned.

This game has never favoured immersion over convenience.

It's a big part of why many of us play and enjoy it.

Telling someone who recognizes this (and would prefer it remain that way) that they are playing the wrong game is some of the worst type of gatekeeping.

Edited August 18, 2021 by mindcircus.1506

[yoni.7015]

7 hours ago, LukaBre.8621 said:

Considering that the specs are still being tied into the lore of the world we're going in, it would be cool to see another step up from PoF regarding their lore. HoT specs didnt have many ties with the jungle itself which is fine as it was the new system at a time. PoF had a quite nice step up where we could talk to NPCs and learn about the specs (spellbreaker story was one of my favs at a time for sure). Maybe its time for another level?

 

Here's an example that could be cool addition to make the elite spec itself feel more relatable compared to spending 250 pts the moment we hop in the game without ever visiting the place (in this case Cantha) at all.

 

Lock it behind some sort of a 'knowledge-exploration' wall.

Lets take the role of a guardian for example, fresh dragonhunter coming to Cantha. Before we can swap to Willbender, it would be nice to have us learn something about Willbenders through the game itself. Books, NPCs, hearts, even instances can explain the story of Willbenders before we're able to master their techniques. (I would dare to say make some collections but I know that some people might see it as 'exhausting'). The lock itself doesnt have to be huge, maybe it can be done in 1 go (in case of the instance) or several tiers (4 perhaps in case there's a mini collection) before we are able to reach that final tear when we can learn all traits/skills.

 

Finally, to ease it up - this progress should be account-wide. If we complete the instance/achievement/collection/whatever we call it on one character - any next character of the same class would have a prompt saying something like 'i already saw this - skip' so we can have that small QoL element in that place.

I don’t like this idea. I want to spend the 250 points when the expansion goes live and play the new specs. I remember when HoT went live and the specs required 400 mastery points at first. There were a lot of complaints and they changed it to 250.